Imperial Personnel Bundle - False Advertising!

[VAChem]

Can you quote or link to said Codex entry?

 

http://www.swtor-spy.com/codex/alien-initiatives/91617/

 

The rebellion of Malgus the Betrayer struck a decisive blow to the Imperial war effort, weakening the Empire’s offensive and shattering its united front. Alien factions that flocked to Malgus’s banner would forever be judged for their disloyalty. But in a time of turmoil, those species that remained faithful were rewarded. Against the protests of its more conservative leaders–including heated objections from Grand Moff Regus–the Empire began a concerted effort to integrate its most devoted alien subjects into the military. Only by increasing its numbers with alien stock could the Empire survive the raging conflict against the Republic. The new alien recruits face down prejudice and competition to prove their worth and secure power within the evolving Empire. Cathar clans have vaulted to prominence, while Kaleesh tribes and countless other species pledge their support to the Imperial fight. Fueled by these brave and committed alien warriors, the Empire rallies its strength and marches into a new era.

[Karameck]

http://www.swtor-spy.com/codex/alien-initiatives/91617/

 

The rebellion of Malgus the Betrayer struck a decisive blow to the Imperial war effort, weakening the Empire’s offensive and shattering its united front. Alien factions that flocked to Malgus’s banner would forever be judged for their disloyalty. But in a time of turmoil, those species that remained faithful were rewarded. Against the protests of its more conservative leaders–including heated objections from Grand Moff Regus–the Empire began a concerted effort to integrate its most devoted alien subjects into the military. Only by increasing its numbers with alien stock could the Empire survive the raging conflict against the Republic. The new alien recruits face down prejudice and competition to prove their worth and secure power within the evolving Empire. Cathar clans have vaulted to prominence, while Kaleesh tribes and countless other species pledge their support to the Imperial fight. Fueled by these brave and committed alien warriors, the Empire rallies its strength and marches into a new era.

That's a good find, thanks for sharing.

 

It would seem to imply the racist (speciest?) sentiment is still there but the numbers are certainly shifting post vanilla. I'm curious if there's any other mention after ROTHC.

[MikeCobalt]

Well, we actually don't know very much about what they're doing - our characters haven't been within the Empire in any sort of meaningful way in 7 years. In that time a lot of people have died off, and out of pragmatism, if not progressiveness, there might be far more aliens in the Empire now than before. So this bundle might possibly be a harbinger of what we're going to see in the game.

 

I do get that a human bundle makes more sense from a lore perspective, but the OP seemed to be melting down about the fact that there were any aliens at all.

 

*This , Starting in 6.0 we may find the Empire full of Aliens, (Artistic Expression or Company Centric). It has been a long time and as others have stated there does *at times seem to be an Aversion to sticking with the Norms, what is expected. I don't know how this would Sit with me coming from my "Original Trilogy" stand point but everybody is different . Awhile back I did the Sith Warrior on Hoth (Never finished that class story) and the Promotion at the end involved recommending one of the two, a Human or Chiss, Promoting the Chiss was Breaking with tradition. Still think that Bundle is odd though. Maybe like the Cantina Personnel bundles there will be more then one, this one and a more......"Standard" version.

Edited October 3, 2018 by MikeCobalt

[IoNonSoEVero]

I mean... you said this:

after I said this:

 

Not really sure how you could interpret me saying "not everyone in the Empire is rascist" to mean anything other than "Not everyone in the Empire is rascist." But.... ok.

 

As to the other point I don't think OP was worked up. Came across as satire to me. "Alien Freaks" "floodgates to release the alien invasion" all seem to be hyperbole.

 

I refuse to argue with you on this, and you're now talking about a completely different point. As I said, agree to disagree.

[Lunafox]

No disagreement that the Empire, generally speaking, looks down on alien races in the grand theme of a conflict based game. They also look down upon Republic humans too, perhaps even more so. It's a classic neo-evil story theme at work, which resonates with prejudicial exigencies of human beings broadly. In fact. the way the OP chose to portray their disappointment of the pack contents pretty well spotlights this as a theme in humans.

 

It's not even racism per se.. more like deliberate US vs THEM conflict themes at play... because they also look down on Republic Humans as well.. perhaps even more so given the notional theme of conflict between Imp and Pub. That said... as I noted earlier... if the studio did not want Empire players and NPCs to be rendered as alien races.. they would not put it in game that way. Like all things in this game, from Jedi, to Sith, to <insert your pet conflict point here> it serves the purpose of injecting conflict points in the grand story arc.

 

About half of my Imperial characters in game by the way are Chiss. And even in the time line of the original movies... Chiss held positions of power and influence in the Empire (such as Zhan's Grand Admiral Thrawn character). And then we have Darth Maul in Episode 1.. hand picked protégé of Darth Serious who is human) .. which to some extent belies the claim that the Empire always looks down on all alien races. I encourage players to explore beyond the surface level stereotypes presented in Lucas original movies, because the studio certainly has.

 

Back to the pack itself.... I firmly believe that no matter what they included or excluded in the pack.. some players would be complaining about it. It's simply the nature of MMOs played by a widely divergent set of player interests, which in my view is fine. Declaring it somehow "false advertising" though is just simply ridiculous and nothing more then a pretense rather then presenting an honest and coherent criticism of the pack.

 

I think exceptions were made for the Force Sensitive aliens like Maul, when they're Force Sensitive, they're automatically called 'Sith' when they're done their training. Being a Force user elevates them. The same privelege doesn't extend to ordinary aliens, they're treated like and called scum regularly.

 

The Chiss are an unusal exception, as they are allowed more important postions within the Empire, but they're the only ones we've seen in elevated stations of power for the non-force using aliens in this timeline. So far, we haven't seen a Duros or Arconians, Devaronians, Muun or Bith in a position of power here. It really doesn't make any sense to me to have so many aliens in the Imperial Personnel pack, when they're an anomaly. Everywhere we go in the game where the Empire is concerned, you see mostly human personal. There needs to be more humans for the Empire. I totally get that for the Republic, yeah, they'd have loads of aliens, cause equal opportunities and all that.

 

Now after Malgus failed, Marr did carry on the belief that aliens could be used in the Empire, but even still there weren't many in any Imperial location we see in the game.

 

You do bring up Sidious from the future stories, who is interesting...he has Maul as his first apprentice and he hangs out with an Umbaran and a Chagrian, I presume socially as we see them at the Sith Opera. I find it interesting that he hangs out with them, but still when you look on Imperial destroyers and bases, all you see are humans and stormtroopers.

 

I could see that in the future in Sidious time, they might include more aliens, it would make sense that they evolved a bit, but in this time frame, it's all about humans, Sith, cyborgs, Chiss. Aliens are scum. And I really want more humans. I'd buy packs of assorted male and female human imperials.

[Karameck]

I refuse to argue with you on this, and you're now talking about a completely different point. As I said, agree to disagree.

I talked about the two points you raised, not "some other point'.

 

But yeah, this isn't productive. I was explaining my position and I've done that. So sure "agree to disagree".

[Lunafox]

The only time I saw an imperial/Sith warm up to aliens was with Malgus. He wanted the Kaleesh warriors for himself. And on the False Emperor you see different races supporting Malgus. Now whether he was just using them, I am not sure. But the implication is that he was more accepting of alien races than the rest of the Empire. Perhaps because of his prior relationship with Eleena?

 

However, in the comics I recall Ngani Zho explaining that he was trying to help the alien slaves that the Empire was using to construct their super weapon only to see them all die because they were used as test subjects for the weapon after they helped build it.

 

In Fatal Alliances, Shigar Konshi - a Kiffar takes issue with Darth Chratis because he is well aware of what happened to his people on Kiffu by the Imperials. Ula Vii is an Imperial Agent and his race is Epicanthix. He may be an agent but it is clear the Imperials don't respect or like him much.

 

In Deceived, the Treaty of Coruscant gave the Empire control of several worlds. They used that to gain leverage and conquer them, enslaving the inhabitants of those worlds.

 

Yup, Malgus was progressive in that way, and you know, Marr was to a degree as well. He was willing to support a Falleen (Darth Karrid) for council, because he had the same belief as Malgus, except perhaps not as extreme. Marr was pragmatic and saw they needed bodies to win the war and had use for skilled aliens. Sadly, Marr is gone.

 

I think Malgus was more accepting of the aliens because of his relationship with Eleena Daru. I think he genuinely accepted them and saw that they had use and could be of value to the Empire. I'm not sure Marr felt quite the same way...he had a war to fight and win, and alien bodies were of use and more bodies were needed to win and restore the Empire.

 

I could totally see the Empire using aliens as fodder. In fact in Vector's return, he tells the Agent that the Empire used the Killicks as cannon fodder. So again, another proof that aliens are not well regarded in the Empire and that most of their important staff are human.

 

So, I agree with you, it's plain to see the Empire would rather have humans and aliens are fodder . To me a pack with more humans would make sense.

[Aeneas_Falco]

It wasn't false advertising. No one is being cheated or deceived by the personnel pack.

 

Having said that I do agree that the decision to make the majority of them aliens was a bit odd, given that it is at out of step with the backstory for the Empire within the game. Since the empire is presented as being on the whole prejudiced against aliens, the majority of the Imperial military personnel should have probably been human.

 

That said, I'm glad they are releasing personnel packs. Personnel was the category of deco most in need of some attention by the devs.

[HeatRacer]

You do bring up Sidious from the future stories, who is interesting...he has Maul as his first apprentice and he hangs out with an Umbaran and a Chagrian, I presume socially as we see them at the Sith Opera. I find it interesting that he hangs out with them, but still when you look on Imperial destroyers and bases, all you see are humans and stormtroopers.

 

This is a very good point.. I have a strong suspicion that the Sith aren't especially racist (since power, cunning, and willpower are what's most important), but that the Empire is simply utilizing a tactic that's been done throughout all of human history: distract/control the population by directing them at someone else. Since humans seem to be a majority, the Empire just cons them into believing that aliens are beneath them, or taking their jobs/economy/women/etc.

 

"It's because of those filthy aliens that you're living in poverty! (totally not because we're funneling zillions of creds into a huuuge space station)"

Edited October 4, 2018 by HeatRacer

[Damask_Rose]

I totally get that for the Republic, yeah, they'd have loads of aliens, cause equal opportunities and all that.

 

Not quite equal. The Republic Taris arc makes it very clear there is plenty of anti-alien sentiment in the Republic as well.

[Lunafox]

Not quite equal. The Republic Taris arc makes it very clear there is plenty of anti-alien sentiment in the Republic as well.

 

That's true. I'd forgotten about that one until you brought it up. Still, I think they try to be more accepting than the Empire for the most part.

[SourOrange]

I do get that a human bundle makes more sense from a lore perspective, but the OP seemed to be melting down about the fact that there were any aliens at all.

 

It read as primarily facetious to me. I don't think anyone here is in disagreement that it's bizarre and kind of inappropriate, lore-wise, for the first Imperial personnel bundle to be comprised almost entirely of aliens.

If you go to any Imperial outpost, any Imperial spacedock, any planet under Imperial control, you're going to notice that the NPCs present there are overwhelmingly human. And if they aren't, they're purebloods- typically Sith.

 

The Empire is canonically notable for its strict sense of class/race hierarchy. A hierarchy upon which humans sit at the top, and if not, they share a seat with purebloods.

 

Anyway I personally think that it would be most productive to simply make an Imperial personnel pack comprised of humans and perhaps a few purebloods, and later introduce one dedicated specifically to aliens. The Republic could have an additional pack to match.

 

Not quite equal. The Republic Taris arc makes it very clear there is plenty of anti-alien sentiment in the Republic as well.

 

Pockets of bigotry are inevitable in any large group of people. This isn't indicative of any mainstream mentality in the Republic by any stretch of the imagination. Aliens are still welcomed into the Republic, provided equal opportunities, given a voice in the government, protected by the law just like every other citizen. This is not true for the Empire, which openly shuns aliens from its citizenry and its professional ranks, makes every available opportunity difficult to attain, enslaves them, and often refuses to protect them from harassment and assault.

 

There is a huge difference between these two civilizations, they really can't be compared when it comes to treatment of alien races.

Edited October 4, 2018 by SourOrange

[Xina_LA]

As much as I like having a variety of races as personnel, I have to agree that an Imperial bundle is NOT the appropriate time. Imperials are very anti-alien. I would have preferred an all human pack. Save the aliens for a Civilians bundle.

[Ardrossan]

Not quite equal. The Republic Taris arc makes it very clear there is plenty of anti-alien sentiment in the Republic as well.

 

I'm not sure what this is referring to. The human settlers vs the aliens? That was mostly Taris, not the Republic.

 

Also, it was one quest. If they wanted to make a point about anti-alien bigotry in the Republic, there wasn't much there. I'd be more inclined to argue the Coruscant quests, where the Republic does very little to hold back the Migrant Merchants Guild [and considers just closing down complete sectors to the gangs], and has several quests [the nautolan complaining to pub security, the senator and the slave collar chips] that make it clear that the bigotry is just as systemic as in the Empire, just not as apparent.

 

I say it's just as systemic as with the Empire, but over on Imperial Taris we have gleeful Sith lords organizing a contest for who can kill the most Cathar settlers. So it's kind of apples and oranges. Darkside Republic is mostly an ambiguous evil.

[wylyth]

I think the pack is showing an evolving Empire, which started on the path of being more accepting of Aliens starting with Darth Marr and going onwards with Empress Acina. And as for the Killiks, the Republic probably would treat them as cannon fodder as well.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I think the pack is showing an evolving Empire, which started on the path of being more accepting of Aliens starting with Darth Marr and going onwards with Empress Acina. And as for the Killiks, the Republic probably would treat them as cannon fodder as well.

 

That would be my guess, anyway. I was on Taris the other night and the primary quest giver in the bonus series is a Sith who appears to be Rattataki, and they defer to him as much as anyone else. Makeb has numerous aliens working side by side with the humans on the Imperial side, like the scientists and the Cathar officer. So I do think they are showing a slow evolution. Very slow, but it's there.

 

As for the Kiliks, yeah. Republic-side Alderaan has plenty of quests about driving them back and killing them off. The Kiliks take over the estates, involuntarily join their victims and turn them into hivemind pod people. I don't think either side is keen to cozy up to them.

Edited October 7, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[Darth_Advent]

The Empire's Alien Initiatives adopted and mainstreamed ideas that Darth Malgus proved had merit and were partly based on the opening of the Sith Academy to more alien races in that the Empire wasn't in a position to be choosy anyhow. It's not something that went away because Malgus was stopped; on the contrary one could argue that Malgus succeeded in one contingency objective through force of example. "Die or defeat me. Either way the Empire is reborn."

 

This isn't consistently reflected everywhere in the game because we don't have any examples of phasing that reflects story progression besides Ziost. If you look at every Imperial hub that was added to the game after vanilla, however, you'll find alien NPCs in military and Sith uniforms. It starts being recognizable during and after Explosive Conflict on Denova and is slapping you across the face from Makeb onward.

 

I do agree, however, that making every NPC an non-human is somewhat strange. The Empire's demographic makeup is still mostly human.

[annabethchase]

Maybe foreshadowing a Darth Malgus return?

[MikeCobalt]

I think they woulda made a lot More money if they offered a more "Standard" Imperial Personnel Pack. This is weird and doesn't "Fit in Anywhere" let alone the same game it was created for (by the same people with the same experience's).

 

Maybe foreshadowing a Darth Malgus return?

Maybe, They've made crazier choices and came out less then before. Malgus *was well liked, strong SWTOR lore however that clip of the Frozen Malgus was Never Intended to be seen; supposedly only an internal promotional bit.

 

My Trailer

 

 

 

The lone Zakuulian walks along the causeway on his normal route he makes everyday looking around as others usually in groups walk their own way he approaches the Reactor and remembers the day he watched it collapsing, shuddering at what might have been starts feeling a bit odd, then stops, drops the data pad he normaly carried for work and turns then walks into the warehouse slight purple arcs sporadicly appearing around his body walks to the selections console not watching what he's doing press's a sequence of buttons lastly the Enable Button he stops moving as the sounds of machinery starts in the distance. We see rows and rows of Carbonite slabs many different sizes hanging on the racks as one moves out of position and onto the automated overhead conveyor. The camera watches as a Carbonite slab hanging on a rack moves into position into the center, stops with a loud matallic *Clang* then pivots front facing out and another metallic *Clang*.

 

The Zakuulian turns to look over the Carbonite slab then without looking reaches back to the console and starts the thaw process. The Carbonite begins to glow red in the center then more of the outline of a figure, a biped, a heavy biped finally the figure falls out down to his knees and hands, its "Darth Malgus". The Purple Electricity starts then begins arcing increasingly all over Malgus's Body as his fingers start moving. His padded gray, metal and glossy black outfit still ragged, torn and in places burned from his last battle now covered in Purple arcs the camera moves to his eyes still slightly open and glossy we see the Zakuulian's feet on the other side. Malgus's eyes suddenly open wide straining then narrrow with a Pronounced Sith Glow, Malgus now Concious the Zakuulian figure drops to the floor motionless seemingly dead.

 

Darth Malgus takes a deep breath in and starts to rise the purple arcs now sporadic giving a loud exhale rises to his feet takes a step, pauses then walks to the exit as he pass's through the first door jambs both sides crush outward with a loud metallic strain crash sound. The camera turns back to the empty slab of carbonite then into the warehouse the other slabs were kept. The camera slides past rows and rows then around one slab and focuses. Darth Marr is seen in this slab the camera slides to the side and the row behind Marr we see Thexan frozen in carbonite.

 

 

[Laendser]

Actually there is only one Chiss in this bundle according to the decorations preview.

 

The Sith Intelligence Cipher is a human (or cyborg) male, the Watcher is a human female ...

 

I checked up on this to see if maybe I missed something or was mistaken or whatnot, but alas it was still ambiguous UNTIL I switched characters. Logged on with that other character, the preview window confirmed what Cawyden wrote, that they were indeed Human. Switching back to the original character and the preview reverted back to showing Chiss-like people. Strange!

 

With that new information, the bundle doesn't seem to be as heavily seeded with aliens as I originally thought.

 

After seeing the correct complexion for the Sith Intelligence Cipher in the preview window, I happened to notice that the character model is identical to the "Imperial Agents" scattered around inside the Imperial base of the Black Hole daily area on Corellia. This got me thinking that all the NPCs there would make excellent choices for an Imperial Personnel Bundle and would include: "Imperial Agent" (body type 3 Human male), "Imperial Officer" (body type 3 Human male), "Imperial Soldier" (body type 2 male), and "Imperial Engineer" (body type 2 Human male).

 

I would be most pleased to be able to acquire all 4 of these Imperial NPCs as stronghold personnel decorations!

Edited October 8, 2018 by Laendser

[Damask_Rose]

I'm not sure what this is referring to. The human settlers vs the aliens? That was mostly Taris, not the Republic.

 

Also, it was one quest. If they wanted to make a point about anti-alien bigotry in the Republic, there wasn't much there. I'd be more inclined to argue the Coruscant quests, where the Republic does very little to hold back the Migrant Merchants Guild [and considers just closing down complete sectors to the gangs], and has several quests [the nautolan complaining to pub security, the senator and the slave collar chips] that make it clear that the bigotry is just as systemic as in the Empire, just not as apparent.

 

I say it's just as systemic as with the Empire, but over on Imperial Taris we have gleeful Sith lords organizing a contest for who can kill the most Cathar settlers. So it's kind of apples and oranges. Darkside Republic is mostly an ambiguous evil.

 

I fully agree that there are plenty of other quests that deal with significant social/political issues in the Republic. I brought up Taris since it is such a glaring example and came to mind first.

 

Taris is part of the Republic and the anti-alien issues it had stemmed from the Republic. (And no, SourOrange, I'm not suggesting the Republic is as anti-alien as the Empire or that anti-alien sentiments were universal in the Republic, I'm merely pointing out that the Republic struggles with it as well.)

 

Achitan (The Togruta settler): Humans on Taris did as they do on all planets. They seized the surface, claimed Taris's wealth, and forced every other species underground.

 

Every meter of land owned by a human was probably seized from another species. Just as this was seized from my ancestors.

 

It was about money of course. A human governor cut taxes to favor his people, and when others rebelled, they were the ones punished. I think the claim was "aliens are dangerous for Tarisian trade."

 

---

PC : Look at these claims. The aliens there have as good a claim as yours'

Relus Poh: The "Alien Resettlement" was a valid executive order approved by the Republic. This is our land!

 

It was justified! You can't make us leave because of that!

 

There was a follow up letter talking about how your actions started people in the Republic having much needed discussions about anti-alien policies, but I can't find an archive with the planetary arc letters.

[Elessara]

I fully agree that there are plenty of other quests that deal with significant social/political issues in the Republic. I brought up Taris since it is such a glaring example and came to mind first.

 

Taris is part of the Republic and the anti-alien issues it had stemmed from the Republic. (And no, SourOrange, I'm not suggesting the Republic is as anti-alien as the Empire or that anti-alien sentiments were universal in the Republic, I'm merely pointing out that the Republic struggles with it as well.)

 

Achitan (The Togruta settler): Humans on Taris did as they do on all planets. They seized the surface, claimed Taris's wealth, and forced every other species underground.

 

Every meter of land owned by a human was probably seized from another species. Just as this was seized from my ancestors.

 

It was about money of course. A human governor cut taxes to favor his people, and when others rebelled, they were the ones punished. I think the claim was "aliens are dangerous for Tarisian trade."

 

---

PC : Look at these claims. The aliens there have as good a claim as yours'

Relus Poh: The "Alien Resettlement" was a valid executive order approved by the Republic. This is our land!

 

It was justified! You can't make us leave because of that!

 

There was a follow up letter talking about how your actions started people in the Republic having much needed discussions about anti-alien policies, but I can't find an archive with the planetary arc letters.

 

True enough about that Taris quest but the Alien Resettlement was done 300 years prior, during the time of Revan (or rather before Revan arrived on the planet during the events of KotOR). Achitan is the descendant of someone whose land had been taken 300 years prior and those two settlers are descendants of the people who had taken the land. The anti-alien sentiment on Taris was kind of unique to the planet because of it's history. I don't know that it's exactly fair to say that the Republic as a whole exhibits the same level of anti-alien bias that Taris 300 years prior did.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Elessara

[Damask_Rose]

True enough about that Taris quest but the Alien Resettlement was done 300 years prior, during the time of Revan (or rather before Revan arrived on the planet during the events of KotOR). Achitan is the descendant of someone whose land had been taken 300 years prior and those two settlers are descendants of the people who had taken the land. The anti-alien sentiment on Taris was kind of unique to the planet because of it's history. I don't know that it's exactly fair to say that the Republic as a whole exhibits the same level of anti-alien bias that Taris 300 years prior did.

 

I'm not saying the Republic as a whole exhibits the same level of anti-alien bias as Taris. What I'm saying is that the Republic has pernicious pockets of anti-alien sentiment and Taris is an example of one. That is the joy of the vanilla stories. They are rich and complex. The Republic isn't all one thing or all another, neither is the Empire. It's a much more realistic portrayal of vast, sprawling governments.

 

She uses the phrase "as they do on all planets'. She is clearly stating that the Republic treated aliens this way on many planets, and that it is still an ongoing problem. In the dialogue for this quest our characters and all of the NPCs keep referring to the other settlers as "the aliens". They aren't being referred to as people. That also implies there is an ongoing problem of some aliens being seen as something different.

 

I wish I could find the follow up letter. From what I remember it talks about many people in the Republic being shocked and angry that we would side with the aliens rather than the humans and that the ensuing public discussion was greatly needed.

[Ardrossan]

In the dialogue for this quest our characters and all of the NPCs keep referring to the other settlers as "the aliens". They aren't being referred to as people. That also implies there is an ongoing problem of some aliens being seen as something different.

 

That seems to be a common trope in SW, and one that never made much sense to me [aren't they all aliens?].

 

Someone in this thread mentioned that Sith Purebloods are aliens too, and they are, but not in a derogatory sense. If you play a pureblood, even for a non-sith class, you'll be treated as human. That doesn't make a lot of sense either; in the JK class story they mention that NFU purebloods are quite rare.

 

It would be interesting to see a more deeper exploration of privilege in species' politics, but that's probably too deep for this game [and too close to identity politics for many gamers].