SPrime Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Maybe I'm not being clear... Previously, BiS gear has only ever been available via in game activities (PvP, NiM Ops, RNG boxes), never as a crafted piece. Since we're getting a new tier, I assume it'll also be BiS over tier 4 gear, because that's how gearing has always worked...the newest tier is always superior to the previous. Where I am a bit more cautious is where set bonuses come into play...how the hell are they going to work set bonuses into crafted gear? The sheer number of armoring that will be required is going to be crazy. There will need to be 3 armorings PER class...that'll be 12 armoring schematics needed for the gambit of bonuses...I just don't see how that seems practical... Set bonuses need to be eliminated and made innate to each AC...otherwise this is going to be a freaking mess. Actually after EC and TFB came out, you could reverse engineer the modifications. The learned schematics did not have the set bonus. But yes I agree the set bonus will be a mess. Although crafters will become rich :rod_grin_g: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Actually after EC and TFB came out, you could reverse engineer the modifications. The learned schematics did not have the set bonus. But yes I agree the set bonus will be a mess. Although crafters will become rich :rod_grin_g: Not the same thing...that required the top tier gear to even begin REing it (which is similar to getting a schematic I guess), but the BEST gear (the gear with set bonuses) was still restricted to being looted, even though you could supplement mods and enhancements with crafted stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 That's really kinda random...but I agree...I wish they'd allow players who have missed out on them a chance to get them in-game. Comps should be identical in performance. That having been said, story comps should never have been subscriber exclusive rewards. I rather like what they appear to have done for Darth Hexid, which is make her available through achievement with a much heftier accomplishment than doing her original requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPrime Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Not the same thing...that required the top tier gear to even begin REing it (which is similar to getting a schematic I guess), but the BEST gear (the gear with set bonuses) was still restricted to being looted, even though you could supplement mods and enhancements with crafted stuff. Fair enough, but remember, you had to sacrifice that top tier gear in the hopes to be able to craft the a full set. The learn rates were much lower back then, i think it was 20%, where now it is 60% So it was either equip it and get the set bonus, or reverse engineer it to try to learn it so you can slot out the rest of your gear with the armouring mod. Most HM raiders at the time decided that it was more worth it to give the piece to the crafters in the guild to RE so that they can craft for everyone and gear up faster. And thus giving up the set bonus. Hopefully they get your point and that having 12 different armourings for different set bonuses would be utterly nonsensical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Fair enough, but remember, you had to sacrifice that top tier gear in the hopes to be able to craft the a full set. The learn rates were much lower back then, i think it was 20%, where now it is 60% So it was either equip it and get the set bonus, or reverse engineer it to try to learn it so you can slot out the rest of your gear with the armouring mod. Most HM raiders at the time decided that it was more worth it to give the piece to the crafters in the guild to RE so that they can craft for everyone and gear up faster. And thus giving up the set bonus. Hopefully they get your point and that having 12 different armourings for different set bonuses would be utterly nonsensical. Oh I remember...I also remember the tears in voice chat as attempt after attempt would fail...I literally heard Kak cry (not the first time, he's a cowboy's fan). Someone in another thread, similar to this one, suggested that maybe we'll just see implants, relics and ear pieces at this time to avoid the issue of set bonuses until 6.0 launches...I thought that actually made sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiesu Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) Maybe I'm not being clear... Previously, BiS gear has only ever been available via in game activities (PvP, NiM Ops, RNG boxes), never as a crafted piece. Since we're getting a new tier, I assume it'll also be BiS over tier 4 gear, because that's how gearing has always worked...the newest tier is always superior to the previous. Where I am a bit more cautious is where set bonuses come into play...how the hell are they going to work set bonuses into crafted gear? The sheer number of armoring that will be required is going to be crazy. There will need to be 3 armorings PER class...that'll be 12 armoring schematics needed for the gambit of bonuses...I just don't see how that seems practical... Set bonuses need to be eliminated and made innate to each AC...otherwise this is going to be a freaking mess. No you were perfectly clear. You're just not either seeing my point or refuse to understand/accept it. I was simply stating "crafted gear has never had set bonus" and don't think that'll change; but you keep insisting it must have bonus this time around just because it's highest tier. We don't know if either of us is right because details haven't been confirmed so insistence is futile. We can only theorize. Armorings previously have not had set bonus in crafted form. Edited September 12, 2018 by Kiesu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodrac Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 insistence is futile. Is that the new Borg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 No you were perfectly clear. You're just not either seeing my point or refuse to understand/accept it. I was simply stating "crafted gear has never had set bonus" and don't think that'll change; but you keep insisting it must have bonus this time around just because it's highest tier. We don't know if either of us is right because details haven't been confirmed so insistence is futile. We can only theorize. Armorings previously have not had set bonus in crafted form. Well if it doesn't have a set bonus, it won't be BiS, so it's meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiesu Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Well if it doesn't have a set bonus, it won't be BiS, so it's meaningless. If 2/3 of the mods in the gear are bis (+leftsides), it's anything but meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhobin Posted September 12, 2018 Author Share Posted September 12, 2018 If 2/3 of the mods in the gear are bis (+leftsides), it's anything but meaningless. So they announce a new set of gear, tie it to MM operations, then make the armorings undesirable? I mean they have made strange development descions, but that would be up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdast Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) Although crafters will become rich :rod_grin_g: To me the jury is still out on this one. I think it is fair to say that the announcement of MM GotM took us by surprise, particularly since they announced months ago they had shelved it. I truly have no idea how many players are interested in MM GotM, but if the crafted Tier 5 gear is just a placeholder to help make the mode easier then: A) I'm all for it; but B) Not terribly interested. There are a lot of intervening variables such as: 1) is there a level increase in 6.0; 2) will that ilvl of gear be relatively easy to acquire in 6.0 through different means; 3) will the crafted gear be available through others means prior. We just don't know. For me, though, I can already complete the content I want now with current gear levels. I'm not going to chase after crafting patterns so that I can complete content a few seconds / minutes faster. And as I stated in a different thread, and while this is speculation, there is zero chance that you need this gear to complete the basic storyline of 5.10. Dasty Edited September 12, 2018 by Jdast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiesu Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) So they announce a new set of gear, tie it to MM operations, then make the armorings undesirable? I mean they have made strange development descions, but that would be up there. And let leave PVP people (the only people who this actually impacts) with no way to acquire said gear apart from buying them off of raiders. But Armoring not having bonus it the thing you'd find weirdest in this? Ok then. Edited September 12, 2018 by Kiesu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rion_Starkiller Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) nvm someone already mentioned the 204's from CM HM. Edited September 12, 2018 by Rion_Starkiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toraak Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 And let leave PVP people (the only people who this actually impacts) with no way to acquire said gear apart from buying them off of raiders. But Armoring not having bonus it the thing you'd find weirdest in this? Ok then. We do not know that. Just because they mentioned MM Operations in the livestream, doesn't mean they won't put a way for PvP'ers to get it. Perhaps Ranked for instance? We simply do not have enough information yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiesu Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 We do not know that. Just because they mentioned MM Operations in the livestream, doesn't mean they won't put a way for PvP'ers to get it. Perhaps Ranked for instance? We simply do not have enough information yet. Thanks for telling me the same thing I said literally two posts ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhobin Posted September 12, 2018 Author Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) And let leave PVP people (the only people who this actually impacts) with no way to acquire said gear apart from buying them off of raiders. But Armoring not having bonus it the thing you'd find weirdest in this? Ok then. My guess is that mats will drop similar to augments, In ranked. Where the schematics will drop from raids, possible ultra rare cp bag drops as well. The mats will be tied to weeklies and ranked players will complain even more about mat farmers. Unless you know there are 7 other players ranked above 1300, it will be impossible to find a legit game in solo. And granked was launched dead so it does not really matter, and just be used as mat farming. The best way to save PvP fro this for the more “hardcore” players it to really support the new guild challenge system. Make a guild leaderboard, have solid rewards. Make competitive PvP player driven, and support it. The Rishi huttball arena should have a way to switch between the huttball map and an arena created by the player. Edited September 12, 2018 by mhobin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiesu Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 My guess is that mats will drop similar to augments, In ranked. Where the schematics will drop from raids, possible ultra rare cp bag drops as well. The mats will be tied to weeklies and ranked players will complain even more about mat farmers. Unless you know there are 7 other players ranked above 1300, it will be impossible to find a legit game in solo. And granked was launched dead so it does not really matter, and just be used as mat farming. And this is a bad thing that should not be happening. It's not an OK system because it's already happening. "It doesn't matter because it's just a farming mode" is the wrong attitude to take here. It matters, it's supposed to be ranked, its supposed to be the gamemode where people tryhard and get better at, not the mode they just throw away for easy rewards. It's just further gimping the PVP experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhobin Posted September 12, 2018 Author Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) And this is a bad thing that should not be happening. It's not an OK system because it's already happening. "It doesn't matter because it's just a farming mode" is the wrong attitude to take here. It matters, it's supposed to be ranked, its supposed to be the gamemode where people tryhard and get better at, not the mode they just throw away for easy rewards. It's just further gimping the PVP experience. Wrong attitude or honest assessment of the situation? The only way to save group ranked at this point is to build a time machine and put cross server in at 2.4 or before. Edited September 12, 2018 by mhobin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiesu Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Wrong attitude or honest assessment of the situation? Both. One does not cancel out the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhobin Posted September 12, 2018 Author Share Posted September 12, 2018 Both. One does not cancel out the other. Only way to save ranked is to build a time machine and put cross server in during 2.4 or before. That was when there was still enough of a PvP population to service the game mode. Now it is just time to accept that casual game is casual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiesu Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Only way to save ranked is to build a time machine and put cross server in during 2.4 or before. That was when there was still enough of a PvP population to service the game mode. Now it is just time to accept that casual game is casual. The other way is to keep ranked rewards PVP related, duh. Plenty of solutions has been discussed in plenty of pvp threads. Things aren't as black and white as you seem to think. Regs are the casual mode, ranked should not be the new regs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 If 2/3 of the mods in the gear are bis (+leftsides), it's anything but meaningless. Fine...it won't be "meaningless", but it won't be a full new tier of gear either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhobin Posted September 12, 2018 Author Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) The other way is to keep ranked rewards PVP related, duh. Plenty of solutions has been discussed in plenty of pvp threads. Things aren't as black and white as you seem to think. Regs are the casual mode, ranked should not be the new regs. I have played a little more the 100 solo ranked games this season. Maybe 30% have had 8 players in proper gear who know how to play. Every other game has had someone in crappy gear farmer get globaled, someone drop because someone got globaled, or someone throwing. Turn your hope for competitive PvP to the new guild challenge system, and pray it is supported by the devs. Resurrect an old PvP guild, find a few other players to start a new PvP guild. Get excited. We’ll not too excited. Edited September 12, 2018 by mhobin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiesu Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 I have played a little more the 100 solo ranked games this season. Maybe 30% have had 8 players in proper gear who know how to play. Every other game has had someone in crappy gear farmer get globaled, someone drop because someone got globaled, or someone throwing. Turn your hope for competitive PvP to the new guild challenge system, and pray it is supported by the devs. Resurrect an old PvP guild, find a few other players to start a new PvP guild. Get excited. We’ll not too excited. Lol, why are you telling me all the casuals are in regs currently. We both knows this. And they shouldn't, is my point. One solution is to restrict the mat rewards for above specific rank players. This would at-least stop players who don't care to play but still want the mats from quing, because they're not gonna get any if they ain't getting the wins. Or just have the mats from wins only, and just trust BWs new moderation over wintrading is actually working... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceryxp Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Well if it doesn't have a set bonus, it won't be BiS, so it's meaningless. They never said it would be BIS. They didn't say anything about set bonuses, either. They didn't say anything about most of what's being argued in this thread. All that was said was that there would be a new tier of gear and that gear could only be obtained through crafting. For all anyone knows the new tier of gear are just earpieces, relics, and implants. But it's a new tier of gear so it must have X, Y, or Z. No, it doesn't. When the new augments were added that was a new tier of gear. Absolutely nothing was said about this new tier replacing the current tier 4 248 gear. In fact, they specifically mentioned that tier 5 gear would be coming but not right now. So why are so many stuck on this idea that this new tier of gear must be a replacement for 248? And to assume that if this isn't a complete replacement for 248 gear then it must be meaningless... Please. Everyone arguing about this knows that there are those who will grind every day until tier 5 is released if it means a 1% increase in DPS or HPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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