Time to merge the US servers... again. Primetime window getting smaller and smaller.

[robertthebard]

I’d give up. He’s just here to argue with everyone and offer no substance to the conversations. (Even Luna and I had more constructive points when we were arguing), If you say white he’ll say black or gray.

He use to do this a lot when he was last subscribed, he’s trying to troll but just isn’t very good.

 

Let's look at my "just trying to argue":

 

You: I have proof that huttball isn't working as intended. Doesn't provide proof.

Other poster: Well, let's see the proof, because it's supposed to work this way.

You: You're just arguing to argue, get out of my thread.

Me: If you have the proof, provide it, it eliminates the chance of any confusion, if a casual reader can look at it and see what's going on.

You: Crickets.

 

Your inability to provide proof, something that can be witnessed in this thread as well, where you "don't want to start an argument by providing numbers during peak hours", and then attempting to blame anyone that asks about it of "trolling you", or misstating your opinion or goal of the post.

 

I provided, despite not wanting to really waste my time with it, because it was ignored the last time I provided it, a system that would have made PvP have some kind of relevance, and I provided it in this very thread. But, it doesn't treat PvPers like special snowflakes, so it's not "offering any substance" to the thread. This is the typical PvPer type response though, "If you're not agreeing with everything I say, you're trolling for the sake of trolling". I've seen it across multiple games, across multiple genres, so it comes as no surprise.

 

So instead of revamping, or reversing gearing, how about you come up with a way to make PvP more relevant? Getting participation trophies isn't going to do it. If it was, the PvP community wouldn't be having these issues, would they? Gating companions behind it didn't work, or we wouldn't have these issues, would we? Nerfing the classes into the ground didn't work, or we wouldn't have these issues. So, instead of "we want to be snowflakes", how about you come up with something that makes PvP mean something in swtor. I've laid out my thoughts on it, and surprise surprise, it would have even made Conquest relevant too. So far, your ideas equate to "give us more free stuff, surely there's a threshold where more people will play, we just have to keep giving 'em out until we find it".

[Kiesu]

So instead of revamping, or reversing gearing, how about you come up with a way to make PvP more relevant?

Holy poodles dude. You really don't know what you're talking about. She has been doing nothing but providing details and thinking solutions for months if not even years on/off.

 

Obviously someone haven't been following the conversation... You can literally search trough her post history and you'll come across the posts where she provides numbers, proof, methods of stat tracking and numerous solutions and improvement ideas across the board.

Do some research before you demand everything to be reposted for your own convenience.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Kiesu

[Andryah]

Let's look at my "just trying to argue":

 

You: I have proof that huttball isn't working as intended. Doesn't provide proof.

Other poster: Well, let's see the proof, because it's supposed to work this way.

You: You're just arguing to argue, get out of my thread.

Me: If you have the proof, provide it, it eliminates the chance of any confusion, if a casual reader can look at it and see what's going on.

You: Crickets.

 

^^ Well encapsulated And in fact a common tactic being applied by the person you are responding to... on a range of topics.

 

But none of this is really that unusual in the typical passionate forum topic. So it's more a question of how best to respond to it, because it's not going to stop.

 

Back on topic.. and as an aside.... the OP dropped this bomb into the forum more then 2 weeks ago .. and quickly abandoned the thread. And I know he is an avid PvPer ... so I'm thinking he had a bad queue day, was frustrated, and felt the need to create the thread in the moment of frustration. Everyone else has simply picked it up and run with it as their current favorite forum chew-toy as well as issue numerous negative segways along the way.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Andryah

[Lunafox]

Should've already been 1 server to begin with.

 

Well, it would've certainly pulled the bandage off the wound faster, so to speak, and eliminate any more worries about mergers. But, it was explained to us by Eric, that it was not possible because it would cause excessive lag, the possibility of more server downtime and queues when signing in to play.

 

Personally, I'm fine with two east coast servers, because I wasn't thrilled to have a merger in the first place and be subjected to an overcrowded environment and one that is hostile toward pve/story/rp players. I'm very thankful that Shadowlands was merged with the RP servers, because that style of play and it's players are less obtrusive to my own play style. The only thing that sucks, is the specter of yet another merge, which again, I don't want for any reason.

 

The other thing I disagreed with was eliminating West coast altogether. That was a bad idea.

 

 

 

Back on topic.. and as an aside.... the OP dropped this bomb into the forum more then 2 weeks ago .. and quickly abandoned the thread. And I know he is an avid PvPer ... so I'm thinking he had a bad queue day, was frustrated, and felt the need to create the thread in the moment of frustration. Everyone else has simply picked it up and run with it as their current favorite forum chew-toy as well as issue numerous negative segways along the way.

 

I agreed with your entire post, but especially this point. The OP hasn't really had much input since he started the thread. The thread just seems more of a 'key' to wind us up and watch us go lol.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Lunafox

[TrixxieTriss]

 

Back on topic.. and as an aside.... the OP dropped this bomb into the forum more then 2 weeks ago .. and quickly abandoned the thread. And I know he is an avid PvPer ... so I'm thinking he had a bad queue day, was frustrated, and felt the need to create the thread in the moment of frustration. Everyone else has simply picked it up and run with it as their current favorite forum chew-toy as well as issue numerous negative segways along the way.

 

I believe he’s since left the game again due to it not popping enough when he is online. I could be mistaken, but that’s what it seems.

 

I hope he hasn’t left or will be back.

[TrixxieTriss]

Let's look at my "just trying to argue":

 

You: I have proof that huttball isn't working as intended. Doesn't provide proof.

Other poster: Well, let's see the proof, because it's supposed to work this way.

You: You're just arguing to argue, get out of my thread.

Me: If you have the proof, provide it, it eliminates the chance of any confusion, if a casual reader can look at it and see what's going on.

You: Crickets.

 

Your inability to provide proof, something that can be witnessed in this thread as well, where you "don't want to start an argument by providing numbers during peak hours", and then attempting to blame anyone that asks about it of "trolling you", or misstating your opinion or goal of the post.

 

I provided, despite not wanting to really waste my time with it, because it was ignored the last time I provided it, a system that would have made PvP have some kind of relevance, and I provided it in this very thread. But, it doesn't treat PvPers like special snowflakes, so it's not "offering any substance" to the thread. This is the typical PvPer type response though, "If you're not agreeing with everything I say, you're trolling for the sake of trolling". I've seen it across multiple games, across multiple genres, so it comes as no surprise.

 

So instead of revamping, or reversing gearing, how about you come up with a way to make PvP more relevant? Getting participation trophies isn't going to do it. If it was, the PvP community wouldn't be having these issues, would they? Gating companions behind it didn't work, or we wouldn't have these issues, would we? Nerfing the classes into the ground didn't work, or we wouldn't have these issues. So, instead of "we want to be snowflakes", how about you come up with something that makes PvP mean something in swtor. I've laid out my thoughts on it, and surprise surprise, it would have even made Conquest relevant too. So far, your ideas equate to "give us more free stuff, surely there's a threshold where more people will play, we just have to keep giving 'em out until we find it".

 

You really are stretching this discussion now by completing making stuff up. Where have I said anything about Hutt Ball??

What proof do I need to provide when I’ve not even been talking about Hutt Ball?

 

We have been discussing gearing.

 

You are all over the place. Do you even know what you are discussing? Are you ok? Everything you say jumps from one thing to another and half of it wasn’t even said.

 

Honestly, what are you trying to say? Just about everyone of your posts in this thread is an attack on someone or pvpers. How is anything you’ve said supposed to revitalise pvp when all you are doing is trashing it and any discussion about it.

 

You are arguing for the sake of it.

Edited September 10, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

Sword in a box.

 

I dont know what that means

Edited September 10, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[IoNonSoEVero]

Well, it would've certainly pulled the bandage off the wound faster, so to speak, and eliminate any more worries about mergers. But, it was explained to us by Eric, that it was not possible because it would cause excessive lag, the possibility of more server downtime and queues when signing in to play.

 

Personally, I'm fine with two east coast servers, because I wasn't thrilled to have a merger in the first place and be subjected to an overcrowded environment and one that is hostile toward pve/story/rp players. I'm very thankful that Shadowlands was merged with the RP servers, because that style of play and it's players are less obtrusive to my own play style. The only thing that sucks, is the specter of yet another merge, which again, I don't want for any reason.

 

The other thing I disagreed with was eliminating West coast altogether. That was a bad idea.

 

ITA.

 

I also didn't like the way they did the mergers. They just lumped all the East Coast and West Coast servers together for the two new servers. But since everything is physically located on the East Coast, that really wasn't necessary.

 

IMHO since they knew full well that all the servers were moving to the East Coast, it would have been kinder/more player-friendly if they'd sorted the servers into "more RP/solo oriented" and "more PvP/Ops oriented" and merged them accordingly.

 

IIRC there were people on some of the smaller servers who were very upset they were going to be merged with Harbinger because that was a totally different player culture than they preferred, and there were a fair number of players who jumped over to Ebon Hawk to try to avoid that. But then Ebon Hawk was merged with at least one server with the same sort of population, and the RP community isn't what it once was, from what I have heard.

 

But yeah, taking away a West Coast server at all wasn't a swift move.

[Kiesu]

Back on topic.. and as an aside.... the OP dropped this bomb into the forum more then 2 weeks ago .. and quickly abandoned the thread. And I know he is an avid PvPer ... so I'm thinking he had a bad queue day, was frustrated, and felt the need to create the thread in the moment of frustration. Everyone else has simply picked it up and run with it as their current favorite forum chew-toy as well as issue numerous negative segways along the way.

Carrying on conversation someone else started is common practice on forums, what are you even talking about. Initiating conversation in RL doesn't just stop the minute the initiator leaves the room, unless nobody cared about it in the first place or they reached a conclusion hence further discussion wasn't necessary.

 

If you're getting annoyed by all the pvp talk help us find and advertise solutions to BW so they can fix the issues so people don't have to complain anymore. That's what we're trying to do here.

 

People who dont pvp or hate pvp just keeps coming over here to complain about us complaining, which is helping nobody forward.

I also didn't like the way they did the mergers. They just lumped all the East Coast and West Coast servers together for the two new servers. But since everything is physically located on the East Coast, that really wasn't necessary.

The latest merge we had was done 100 times better than the first merges we had back around 2012. They didn't take subscribers or inactive players in account AT ALL back then and just transferred everyone on a one already-existing server. For one this killed your mail, and didn't take player activity in account at all when name conflicts came up. A lv1 character nobody had logged on for years took your max level sub name with hundreds on game hours on it just because the lv1 already existed on the server everyone was dumped on. (I lost my first charcter's name to a lv23 jugg who never logged on during the next 5+ years)

The latest merge was done so much better anyone who went trough the first one is not complaining nearly this hard, because they improved lots to make it fair for as many people as possible this time around.

 

Server localization support dropping was bad for everyone, I haven't seen anyone disagreeing with that statement.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Kiesu

[IoNonSoEVero]

The latest merge we had was done 100 times better than the first merges we had back around 2012. They didn't take subscribers or inactive players in account AT ALL back then and just transferred everyone on a one already-existing server. For one this killed your mail, and didn't take player activity in account at all when name conflicts came up. A lv1 character nobody had logged on for years took your max level sub name with hundreds on game hours on it just because the lv1 already existed on the server everyone was dumped on. (I lost my first charcter's name to a lv23 jugg who never logged on during the next 5+ years)

The latest merge was done so much better anyone who went trough the first one is not complaining nearly this hard, because they improved lots to make it fair for as many people as possible this time around.

 

Server localization support dropping was bad for everyone, I haven't seen anyone disagreeing with that statement.

 

Neither here nor there. I'd certainly hope that between 2012 and 2017 they'd have worked out some issues to make the mergers go more smoothly. With the most recent move, regardless of how much better it was, their actions made for a lot of panicked server transfers before the move and people who were unhappy about being lumped in with servers of very different player culture.

Edited September 10, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[robertthebard]

Holy poodles dude. You really don't know what you're talking about. She has been doing nothing but providing details and thinking solutions for months if not even years on/off.

 

Obviously someone haven't been following the conversation... You can literally search trough her post history and you'll come across the posts where she provides numbers, proof, methods of stat tracking and numerous solutions and improvement ideas across the board.

Do some research before you demand everything to be reposted for your own convenience.

 

It's not my job to support someone else's position, and "I have proof, trust me" isn't a very valid defense. if you have proof, provide it, then nobody can say "where's your proof", right?

 

As to solutions, nothing that I've read makes PvP relevant, but does exactly what I suggested it does: "Treat us like snowflakes, and they will come". Except that, after years of being treated like snowflakes, they're not coming, or we wouldn't be having this discussion in a thread revolving around queue times for PvP necessitating a server merge.

[Seireeni]

Why do you people bother? This person feels that pvp players asking for changes that make their pvp experience better and disliking changes that make it worse is "asking to be treated like a special snowflake" while he's disliking changes that made his game experience worse and would prefer to get changes that make his experience better. In addition he seems to have a beef with Trixxie that has nothing to do with this thread. I don't think anything productive will come out of this anymore.

[Kiesu]

Neither here nor there. I'd certainly hope that between 2012 and 2017 they'd have worked out some issues to make the mergers go more smoothly. With the most recent move, regardless of how much better it was, their actions made for a lot of panicked server transfers before the move and people who were unhappy about being lumped in with servers of very different player culture.

Some users are just prone to go trough a mini-panic no matter the game or system if there is going to be a shift that affects everyone in game. There really isn't anything they can do to avoid that, especially in swtor since their original user system they launched the game with was extremely character-individualistic, meaning we had literally nothing shareable between characters on that account: no server transfers, no legacy gear, no legacy perks or legacy system at all, no account bank, no names, no group finder, nothing. You could mail an unbound item to your alt, that was it. You had to gather all 50 datacrons on all your characters separately if you wanted the stat boosts on all of them.

BW has done so many convenience changes for accounts over the years it's baffling to think how barren the system was back then, and how much better it is now, and it's really unfortunate newer players don't know this and just think BW has been sitting on it's hands for 7+ years and should figured their game out by now. They've been actively figuring it out, we had none of this at launch.

 

Anyway. People are people and some users just panic when going trough any kind of change in their current life.

 

Merging wouldn't be constantly on the table if the MMO part of the game would have been figured out better. We wouldn't need to discuss merges if they could figure out how to share que instances between servers. It's been suggested for years so I'm just going to assume the engine cant support cross-server que support since still literally nothing can be shared between servers without without physically moving you character/stuff to another place.

 

If we'd get cross-server que it'd literally fix population issues immediately, and there would be no need for any merging.

Then we'd just need give incentive for pvp lowbies to come back, since it vanished with the system changes.

 

Why do you people bother? This person feels that pvp players asking for changes that make their pvp experience better and disliking changes that make it worse is "asking to be treated like a special snowflake" while he's disliking changes that made his game experience worse and would prefer to get changes that make his experience better. In addition he seems to have a beef with Trixxie that has nothing to do with this thread. I don't think anything productive will come out of this anymore.

You're right :\

I was being hopeful he could see past his own preferences and understand his way of living isn't the only valid one (nor mine). There should be no argument there. At this point I'm just feeding the troll.

Oh well.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Kiesu

[kodrac]

I dont know what that means

 

What? You don't remember the infamous battlebug who gave us this gem back in pre-launch days? Sword in a box has become an acronym for gibberish for us long timers.

 

"Can you make sword in box light sword so sword come out when opened? then if sword is back after sword, use light saber on box, and saber will be boxed after sword is out"

[TrixxieTriss]

What? You don't remember the infamous battlebug who gave us this gem back in pre-launch days? Sword in a box has become an acronym for gibberish for us long timers.

 

"Can you make sword in box light sword so sword come out when opened? then if sword is back after sword, use light saber on box, and saber will be boxed after sword is out"

 

LoL, Never heard of it. I wasn’t able to be here prelaunch due to regional restrictions. But that is some funny ****

[IoNonSoEVero]

Some users are just prone to go trough a mini-panic no matter the game or system if there is going to be a shift that affects everyone in game. There really isn't anything they can do to avoid that, especially in swtor since their original user system they launched the game with was extremely character-individualistic, meaning we had literally nothing shareable between characters on that account: no server transfers, no legacy gear, no legacy perks or legacy system at all, no account bank, no names, no group finder, nothing. You could mail an unbound item to your alt, that was it. You had to gather all 50 datacrons on all your characters separately if you wanted the stat boosts on all of them.

BW has done so many convenience changes for accounts over the years it's baffling to think how barren the system was back then, and how much better it is now, and it's really unfortunate newer players don't know this and just think BW has been sitting on it's hands for 7+ years and should figured their game out by now. They've been actively figuring it out, we had none of this at launch.

 

Anyway. People are people and some users just panic when going trough any kind of change in their current life.

 

Merging wouldn't be constantly on the table if the MMO part of the game would have been figured out better. We wouldn't need to discuss merges if they could figure out how to share que instances between servers. It's been suggested for years so I'm just going to assume the engine cant support cross-server que support since still literally nothing can be shared between servers without without physically moving you character/stuff to another place.

 

I'm not really sure what you're going on about at this point. The post of Luna's that I was responding to is in no way relevant to anything you're saying here, and the concerns people had about being thrown onto servers like Harbinger were not just histrionics or unfounded panic. And Bioware did have the option of trying to group the servers together for the merger with more respect to server culture, but they didn't.

 

But I've noticed you seem inclined to try to lecture me even when others are saying similar things, and seem to be doing that across numerous threads now, so I'm just going to stop reading the responses.

Edited September 10, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[TrixxieTriss]

Why do you people bother? This person feels that pvp players asking for changes that make their pvp experience better and disliking changes that make it worse is "asking to be treated like a special snowflake" while he's disliking changes that made his game experience worse and would prefer to get changes that make his experience better. In addition he seems to have a beef with Trixxie that has nothing to do with this thread. I don't think anything productive will come out of this anymore.

 

Yeah, I’ve decided to just ignore and then we can go back to having adult conversations,

Edited September 10, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[TUXs]

I'm glad to see that people have taken the time over the weekend to see this from multiple points of view and understand all of the reasons for being for or against it. It's nice to see this thread still going strong with agreement and understanding on both sides of it...

 

[TUXs]

"Can you make sword in box light sword so sword come out when opened? then if sword is back after sword, use light saber on box, and saber will be boxed after sword is out"

R.I.P. in peace Sword in Box... 😥

[Khevar]

R.I.P. in peace Sword in Box... 😥

Sword in Box is sharing a meal in the afterlife with Orange Pixel.

[kodrac]

I'm glad to see that people have taken the time over the weekend to see this from multiple points of view and understand all of the reasons for being for or against it. It's nice to see this thread still going strong with agreement and understanding on both sides of it...

 

 

I only read the forums when I'm at work (I know, real productive ) and I always miss the good stuff on weekends.

[robertthebard]

Why do you people bother? This person feels that pvp players asking for changes that make their pvp experience better and disliking changes that make it worse is "asking to be treated like a special snowflake" while he's disliking changes that made his game experience worse and would prefer to get changes that make his experience better. In addition he seems to have a beef with Trixxie that has nothing to do with this thread. I don't think anything productive will come out of this anymore.

 

The only changes that I've talked about that fit your mischaracterization are the nerfs to PvE done specifically for PvP. So if they nerfed PvP to accommodate PvE, you'd be what, dancing in the streets with joy? Actually, it's fairly obvious what you'd be doing: Complaining that we need a server merge, because despite how much you think it's worth spending money on, there's apparently, again based on the existence of this thread, a lacking population, and the only "suggestions" I've seen are to apply bandaids to a PvP system that is, in it's entirety so carebear that hardcore PvP players left long ago.

 

Once upon a time, in Rappelz, if you lost a fight in PvP, you could drop your gear. I wonder, how long would you play that system? On the servers where you could PvP w/out losing your gear, it took damage, and needed to be repaired. I wonder, how long would you play that system? In Aion, where they had massive PvP battles for fortresses, when you could get enough Asmodians to show up on 5 of the then 6 servers, if you lost, you were locked out of content. I wonder, how long would you play that system? I played it for 5 years, from the second closed beta.

 

You see, it's not a dislike of PvP, it's a dislike of irrelevant PvP. It has absolutely no affect on the main game, at all. The rewards are epeen, and PvE stuff like mounts, wooo, if only I couldn't get mounts any other way, PvP would be so worth my time. Again, I have, on a couple of different occasions, made actual suggestions on how to improve PvP to make it relevant that didn't require special consideration for PvPers, but, because they don't include treating you like snowflakes, they're overlooked, or don't exist. Giving UCs at level 10 doesn't improve PvP, it's a lure to try to attract PvE players into playing, so you can get faster queues. It does nothing to make it relevant, just "treat us like we're special".

[Kiesu]

I'm not really sure what you're going on about at this point. The post of Luna's that I was responding to is in no way relevant to anything you're saying here, and the concerns people had about being thrown onto servers like Harbinger were not just histrionics or unfounded panic. And Bioware did have the option of trying to group the servers together for the merger with more respect to server culture, but they didn't.

 

But I've noticed you seem inclined to try to lecture me even when others are saying similar things, and seem to be doing that across numerous threads now, so I'm just going to stop reading the responses.

Uh, just because I'm quoting you about a point doesn't mean the response was mean just for you... Don't take me so personally. This was my general banter about apparent "panic" that merges cause and unrealistic expectations different users may have from such events- and what solution would have been ideal but may or may not have been achievable. Responding to something discussed in a group is usually meant for the group rather than whoever brought it up. Unless I was using a large amount of "you" references..? Sorry I guess?

[robertthebard]

Uh, just because I'm quoting you about a point doesn't mean the response was mean just for you... Don't take me so personally. This was my general banter about apparent "panic" that merges cause and unrealistic expectations different users may have from such events- and what solution would have been ideal but may or may not have been achievable. Responding to something discussed in a group is usually meant for the group rather than whoever brought it up. Unless I was using a large amount of "you" references..? Sorry I guess?

 

Heh, the biggest fuss I had with the last merger was "OMG, what did they do to my cargo holds", AHHHHH! I lost one name, to myself...

[Seireeni]

The only changes that I've talked about that fit your mischaracterization are the nerfs to PvE done specifically for PvP. So if they nerfed PvP to accommodate PvE, you'd be what, dancing in the streets with joy? Actually, it's fairly obvious what you'd be doing: Complaining that we need a server merge, because despite how much you think it's worth spending money on, there's apparently, again based on the existence of this thread, a lacking population, and the only "suggestions" I've seen are to apply bandaids to a PvP system that is, in it's entirety so carebear that hardcore PvP players left long ago.

 

Once upon a time, in Rappelz, if you lost a fight in PvP, you could drop your gear. I wonder, how long would you play that system? On the servers where you could PvP w/out losing your gear, it took damage, and needed to be repaired. I wonder, how long would you play that system? In Aion, where they had massive PvP battles for fortresses, when you could get enough Asmodians to show up on 5 of the then 6 servers, if you lost, you were locked out of content. I wonder, how long would you play that system? I played it for 5 years, from the second closed beta.

 

You see, it's not a dislike of PvP, it's a dislike of irrelevant PvP. It has absolutely no affect on the main game, at all. The rewards are epeen, and PvE stuff like mounts, wooo, if only I couldn't get mounts any other way, PvP would be so worth my time. Again, I have, on a couple of different occasions, made actual suggestions on how to improve PvP to make it relevant that didn't require special consideration for PvPers, but, because they don't include treating you like snowflakes, they're overlooked, or don't exist. Giving UCs at level 10 doesn't improve PvP, it's a lure to try to attract PvE players into playing, so you can get faster queues. It does nothing to make it relevant, just "treat us like we're special".

 

I've said nothing about server merges, I wouldn't enjoy pvp in any of those examples you mentioned, and you liking certain kind of pvp does not make you better than me, who likes different kind of pvp.