Does this graph look fishy?

[DARKheartLAND]

I'll let you guys figure it out.

 

The state of ranked in this game. You can only achieve that kind of smoothness on the graph if you win without losing a single match or after your first ten matches.

Edited May 7, 2018 by DARKheartLAND

[DavidAtkinson]

Stop beating around a dead horse....

 

We don't need another thread about this. Lots of people have already made threads about this.. and have been told that they suck at ranked and the dude who's graph you just posted is super skilled...

 

It's kinda boring now. There are countless ways to exploit this game and people will never stop doing it

[nepochop]

We all know the top players wintrade, cheat. Yes, they are also good and play a lot, but in general, they help their rating by cheating at various points. Its a FACT! However, who cares? They get their rewards and titles and so it goes on and on.

[DARKheartLAND]

Here is another obvious wintrader, I removed the name so that it doesn't break any forum rules. I actually was in a match with this guy last night as he used an alternate Shadow account as tank to throw for him. All of this was done overnight, kind of pathetic honestly. Hopefully Bioware takes care of it at the end of the season.

 

https://i.imgur.com/P1zuZqh.png

Edited May 7, 2018 by DARKheartLAND

[DARKheartLAND]

Stop beating around a dead horse....

 

We don't need another thread about this. Lots of people have already made threads about this.. and have been told that they suck at ranked and the dude who's graph you just posted is super skilled...

 

It's kinda boring now. There are countless ways to exploit this game and people will never stop doing it

 

Skilled at wintrading, yes.

[KendraP]

Haven't we been through this before?

 

Owing to these graphs starting at the beginning of the season, the horizontal axis is generally of a nonlinear scale.

 

As far as the reason for the flat part, thats a difference between today and yesterday, so I would assume he hasn't played since last night. Because you know, the shortest distance between any 2 points in cartesian space is a straight line, thus the distance between 2 points with the same value on the vertical axis and different values on the horizontal axis is... a horizontal line.

 

If i misinterpreted what is fishy sorry. I have np idea how many matches it takes to get anything, but might suspect wintrading in this case

[Seterade]

I dont why there is any surprise here. almost all of the top three backfilled and wintraded for it. I know it for a fact because I know, or was in contact with about 70% of them at some time or another.

 

This games rating is a house of cards, not a reliable measure of any skill

[DARKheartLAND]

I dont why there is any surprise here. almost all of the top three backfilled and wintraded for it. I know it for a fact because I know, or was in contact with about 70% of them at some time or another.

 

This games rating is a house of cards, not a reliable measure of any skill

 

I believe it, honestly. Was kind of skeptical at first, but after queueing this season for so long I've seen the top 3 people do some sketchy stuff.

[yellow_]

as KenraP already said these graphs are mostly useless due to the messed up horizontal axis - any amount of legitimate ups and downs can be smoothed out by a sufficiently lengthy snapshot

 

the only evidence you actually need here is the absurd amount of rating per win, which is only compounded by the fact that it's *imp side star forge solo ranked*

 

I have played imp side solo ranked on that server. The average player in queue is SO bad and they're playing against many decent and good players on pub side....making climbing elo on imp side into pure futility. These people are obviously win trading or botting or whatever it is people who have to exploit for elo these days prefer to use

Edited May 7, 2018 by yellow_

[DARKheartLAND]

as KenraP already said these graphs are mostly useless due to the messed up horizontal axis - any amount of legitimate ups and downs can be smoothed out by a sufficiently lengthy snapshot

 

the only evidence you actually need here is the absurd amount of rating per win, which is only compounded by the fact that it's *imp side star forge solo ranked*

 

I have played imp side solo ranked on that server. The average player in queue is SO bad and they're playing against many decent and good players on pub side that climbing elo on imp side is pure futility. These people are obviously win trading or botting or whatever it is people who have to exploit for elo these days prefer to use

 

I found out who it was already, it turns out it's a backfiller who shall not be named.

[yellow_]

fwiw you don't even get banned for naming people, I've done it many times

 

they just delete it (if any of the fun police actually report you, that is) and give you a warning or a few points

Edited May 7, 2018 by yellow_

[yellow_]

cheating on pt AND vanguard, nice - very ambitious!

[Lhancelot]

BW should consider restructuring the rating system for ranked if it's this easy to exploit and they have no way to stop cheaters.

 

For non-cheating legit players it's probably near impossible to get high ELO, especially seeing that so many cheaters are deliberately throwing matches and the chances of you getting one or more of them on a team is so high.

 

They need to just award prizes according to a certain number of wins and just drop the useless ELO system.

 

Sure, if you have bad luck getting wins it might take a ton more matches but at least that way there is a structured system that will funnel players into ranked and regardless of skill level anyone will be able to get the highest prizes if they put the time in.

 

If it's impossible to properly award ELO and stop people from cheating, they need to drop this system.

 

It's clear the top rated players are not getting rating purely from being the best at PVP, they simply are the best at working a defunct ELO system.

[Seterade]

With your renewed attempted to make ranked viable for all players an a real commonly played endgame content I wanted to suggest a change, that I believe will end ranked toxicity, boost ranked player numbers/queues, provide rewards for those who invest, end the tantrums for rewards not being good enough, ect ect.

 

The change I purpose is relatively simple. Remove Elo as the deciding factor in ranked rewards and implant a reputation system. "Elo" will (in this idea) become a temporary reputation good for 6 months, at the end of six months the Elo will locked till the season reset, in which the Elo will reset to zero. Players with such an such Elo will be able to buy hero elo item, other legendary elo items.

 

I believe this is what the ranked system needs now that you are trying to make it an all players thing. Take away the competition, and make fun an engaging end game content. The Elo system seems to be the number one thing dragging it down an through the mud.

 

 

Added Idea: make people with higher rep paired with similar rep. you keep the skill with skill but its no longer unbalanced where all the less skilled fight the more skilled. it becomes a time invested match up, which I believe will allow people who might not have all the time in the world to play to still have a chance to not get all the less skilled players, also creating an experienced 1+. reward for time invested, but it wont make all your team skilled, it will just make them more familar. practice can make perfect. I also think this might be a relatively small change allowing most of the code to maybe stay intact.

 

made that a long time ago... maybe I should PM it to keith. its currently in suggestion box

[TrixxieTriss]

BW should consider restructuring the rating system for ranked if it's this easy to exploit and they have no way to stop cheaters.

 

For non-cheating legit players it's probably near impossible to get high ELO, especially seeing that so many cheaters are deliberately throwing matches and the chances of you getting one or more of them on a team is so high.

 

They need to just award prizes according to a certain number of wins and just drop the useless ELO system.

 

Sure, if you have bad luck getting wins it might take a ton more matches but at least that way there is a structured system that will funnel players into ranked and regardless of skill level anyone will be able to get the highest prizes if they put the time in.

 

If it's impossible to properly award ELO and stop people from cheating, they need to drop this system.

 

It's clear the top rated players are not getting rating purely from being the best at PVP, they simply are the best at working a defunct ELO system.

 

All good points as usual

[RafaelPeretz]

Best way for BW to punish cheaters imo is to reward everyone that participated when the season ends or reward none.

 

Make people buy what they want with commendations earned per match/quests completion only. No comms reward at the end of season. Want a cool mount? Play a lot of games and finish a lot of dailies for that. A wepon set? The same. Make only titles tied to ELO tiers.

Edited May 8, 2018 by RafaelPeretz

[Lundorff]

BW should consider restructuring the rating system for ranked if it's this easy to exploit and they have no way to stop cheaters.

 

For non-cheating legit players it's probably near impossible to get high ELO, especially seeing that so many cheaters are deliberately throwing matches and the chances of you getting one or more of them on a team is so high.

 

They need to just award prizes according to a certain number of wins and just drop the useless ELO system.

 

Sure, if you have bad luck getting wins it might take a ton more matches but at least that way there is a structured system that will funnel players into ranked and regardless of skill level anyone will be able to get the highest prizes if they put the time in.

 

If it's impossible to properly award ELO and stop people from cheating, they need to drop this system.

 

It's clear the top rated players are not getting rating purely from being the best at PVP, they simply are the best at working a defunct ELO system.

 

Yes I agree. You can not have a working ELO system with so few players. With 10000 players you would always be grouped with and against people at basically your own rating level, and it would be nearly impossible for people to wintrade / backfill if we had that many players in queue. Alas non of that is ever going to happen, and ranked will remain the lol-fest it currently is.

 

Some basic changes that could be implemented:

 

1) Any unbalanced load-outs prior to match start (4 v 3 or healer vs. no healer etc.) would annul the match, and neither side would lose any rating.

 

2) 3 players can kick-vote 1 guy even if he is in combat or prior to match start. The 3 players would still have to continue the match and suffer normal ELO loss (otherwise it could be abused), but the guy they kicked would be prevented from queuing for 30-60 minutes, to prevent a wintrader or bot to re-queue. The 3 players would NOT get a new backfill, again to prevent abuse.

 

3) If someone leaves at their own volition e.g. rage-quits they loss a lot of ELO (-50 or -60), and the match will get a backfil.

 

4) A bit more controversial would be to replace the ELO-system with a simple point system. If you win you gain 10 points and if you lose you lose 10 points. This basically means, that you will climb as long as your maintain a positive win ration. It would mostly be same as right now, but you would no longer suffer those horrid -17 for reasons beyond your control.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Lundorff

[omaan]

The ranked system turned into a joke. There is even a whole guild on dm called Dsync (obvious i changed the name heh:cool: ) which is using every exploit or just wintrading for its members in both sr and tr. To be honest, this would never happen if devs were monitoring ranked system and fix all exploits it has. In addition to this as people stated before ranked needs more people to participate, otherwise fotm-best teams without any alternative will just stomp those poor few teams who decided to learn ranked every day.

 

IN any case if devs will continue to ignore ranked and exploits we will never see it working properly as it works in other mmo games

Edited May 8, 2018 by omaan

[Lhancelot]

A bit more controversial would be to replace the ELO-system with a simple point system. If you win you gain 10 points and if you lose you lose 10 points. This basically means, that you will climb as long as your maintain a positive win ration.

 

The problem with this is that people would still circumvent the system.

 

They would simply load up as they do now to lose purposefully.

 

IMO the simplest solution is to grant points for winning, and nothing for losses. This way you do not reward or punish people for losing, depending on how you look at it.

 

It's proven a point system punishing people for losses doesn't work by this failed ELO rating system.

 

Only way to get around it is to only grant points for winning. I feel like this is best anyway.

 

With a points-for-winning-only system, people that may not be the best PVPers still will have access to the best PVP rewards, it just will take them a lot more matches to get them if we assume better pvpers will tally up winning matches much faster. this alone also would encourage more players to queue for ranked IMO.

 

Right now it appears a vast majority of people getting the best rewards are players who play the system to their advantage using exploits not meant to be used to win matches. AKA cheating.

 

Simply put, it's impossible to determine the truly best pvpers via ranked, and besides let's be honest we all know who the best are anyways without the rewards proving them to be so.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Lhancelot

[DavidAtkinson]

BW should consider restructuring the rating system for ranked if it's this easy to exploit and they have no way to stop cheaters.

 

For non-cheating legit players it's probably near impossible to get high ELO, especially seeing that so many cheaters are deliberately throwing matches and the chances of you getting one or more of them on a team is so high.

 

They need to just award prizes according to a certain number of wins and just drop the useless ELO system.

 

Sure, if you have bad luck getting wins it might take a ton more matches but at least that way there is a structured system that will funnel players into ranked and regardless of skill level anyone will be able to get the highest prizes if they put the time in.

 

If it's impossible to properly award ELO and stop people from cheating, they need to drop this system.

 

It's clear the top rated players are not getting rating purely from being the best at PVP, they simply are the best at working a defunct ELO system.

 

They will never drop the ELO system because they know that a lot of **tters feed their ego's with their high elo, which was earned legit or not.

 

You see them every evening on DM pvp chat flaming non stop and slamming their elo into your face whenever you disagree on something: " what do you know noob" ? I have 2.1k Elo while you are 1300.... You get the point yes ?

 

Furthermore, removing elo will basically kill ranked because what's the point of queing ? No ego feeding.. no sense of being great.

 

The only change I would like to see is remove the RATING BASED MATCHMAKING ! The highest rated healer shouldn't always get the highest rated in que. That created ganking fests.

 

Matchmaking should be only for healer and tanks and the composition of the team totally random so that highest rated heal will sometimes get int he same team with low rated people.

 

THis way everyone gets teamed up with everybody. It's imple really, but will never happen as the cheat masters wouldn't like that and still.. exploits would be possible.

Edited May 8, 2018 by DavidAtkinson

[DARKheartLAND]

I don't know about the others (only that both are *******s), but as far as I know the number 1 in your list used legit exploits to grind elo: he just sat with his meme team at the empty pubside q in the Harb (now Satele) and farmed random imp teams, while his team where always he and 2 mandos and 1 sliger of the same guild most of the times (cause were the only ones at q in pubside).

 

And he is a ******* as well, just saying.

 

I agree, the first one actually moved to Star Forge later on to farm more rating since it was easier at the beginning of the season, but he still did a bit of backfilling regardless. Also, Ignikis and Whataburger are the same person and I know for a fact that he's absolute garbage at shadow/assassin. Don't let Whataburger's high amount of wins fool you, he backfilled and then started playing normally to make the rating look believable.

[Aeneas_Falco]

BW should consider restructuring the rating system for ranked if it's this easy to exploit and they have no way to stop cheaters.

 

For non-cheating legit players it's probably near impossible to get high ELO, especially seeing that so many cheaters are deliberately throwing matches and the chances of you getting one or more of them on a team is so high.

 

They need to just award prizes according to a certain number of wins and just drop the useless ELO system.

 

Sure, if you have bad luck getting wins it might take a ton more matches but at least that way there is a structured system that will funnel players into ranked and regardless of skill level anyone will be able to get the highest prizes if they put the time in.

 

If it's impossible to properly award ELO and stop people from cheating, they need to drop this system.

 

It's clear the top rated players are not getting rating purely from being the best at PVP, they simply are the best at working a defunct ELO system.

 

They should change the system so that you only gain points and don't lose them. More wins = more points, but losses are like the match never happened.

 

It won't eliminate win trading or other forms of cheating but it will at least stop players who are unfortunate enough to land on the team with the thrower from losing points in the new system.

 

Unfortunately I don't think there is anything that can be done to prevent cheating entirely. In any form of competition there are always going to be people who seek to cheat or gain an unfair advantage. You can at least prevent them from harming another player's rating though.

 

Solo ranked should also take personal performance into account. I'd have the rating not just be based on wins but your average DPS, HPS, or protection numbers (weighted of course to favor a lot of games played, so you don't have someone with one match played topping the leaderboard.)

 

That would make it a little harder to rank high through underhanded means. People would still cheat of course, but at least in that system they'd also have to pair their cheating with playing their spec in an exceptional manner across the season. Otherwise, they won't be near the top. Also if someone is good enough to top leaderboard in a system that prioritizes personal performance, why cheat? Might as well play it straight at that point.

 

Grouped ranked I would have just based on wins without solo performance taken into account.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Aeneas_Falco

[DARKheartLAND]

They should change the system so that you only gain points and don't lose them. More wins = more points, but losses are like the match never happened.

 

I'd be alright with that honestly.

[Alec_Fortescue]

Not really, can't see the entire duration. But my graph shows an obvious struggle. XD

 

http://www.swtor.com/leaderboards/character/4611688263930578530

Edited May 8, 2018 by Alec_Fortescue

[DARKheartLAND]

Not really, can't see the entire duration. But my graph shows an obvious struggle. XD

 

http://www.swtor.com/leaderboards/character/4611688263930578530

 

Your graph looks like a normal graph, it's similar to mine (https://i.imgur.com/Kud1lPk.png). The one I posted on the first page is the graph of someone who backfills. Only backfilling would create a graph like that.

Edited May 8, 2018 by DARKheartLAND