Theron - Nathema Spoilers

[Batwer]

In many ways if Theron's betrayal had been real, and he had really come to hate what the alliance had become. Then this would have been a more impactful arc than, instead its oh I bet his playing along to gain their trust, that silly Theron always wanting to be a spy. Welcome back buddy I knew you were up to something!

 

I would have liked it better if there had been two sides.

1. Dark Side: Theron does not like what we do and betrays us.

2. Bright side: The same story as now.

That would have been more credible. My Sith warrior is crazy and kills everything around him. And Theron is still faithful .... They can think a little bit further in the story.

My warrior let him die because ... he's crazy.

It would be a nice surprise if he were alive. But if so far is thought?

[devilkat]

I loved that he called Lana out on the Rishi thing. It definitely made her think things through. And being able to appear to take charge for once and tell her to trust me was nice. Theron has always come across as pretty easy going (in the game. I haven't read any of the books) and one to let things roll off, but when he called her out like that it was almost savage. I liked seeing him hold a bit of a grudge lol. He fully expected you to hold one against him. Even a romanced character.

[devilkat]

I would have liked it better if there had been two sides.

1. Dark Side: Theron does not like what we do and betrays us.

2. Bright side: The same story as now.

That would have been more credible. My Sith warrior is crazy and kills everything around him. And Theron is still faithful .... They can think a little bit further in the story.

My warrior let him die because ... he's crazy.

It would be a nice surprise if he were alive. But if so far is thought?

 

Agreed. But truth be told, there's no reason for any half sane NPC to follow a character like that, let alone give them control of a god-mode fleet and an unstoppable alien warship. I thought a split storyline was coming here, simply because of the different dialog you got during Umbara. Would have been nice to see. But I'm happy with what we got, too

[JennyFlynn]

Lo and behold for anyone who's curious about Theron's future following Nathema and choices;

 

Tweet by Charles Boyd.

[Diefenbaker]

Theron went rogue. He did what he did because he believed he knew what's best. This time it worked out.

 

What about next time? Hmmm? Not the first time he went rogue. Won't be the last time, and next time it won't be so nice as far as out characters know. So why should our characters trust him?

 

He's a wild card and he can't be trusted farther than you can force push him.

 

Yeah, yeah, next time it'll be all fine again, because plot armor (aka god awful writing), but our characters don't know that.

 

The reactions are interesting though. Players "swooning". It shows how vapid a lot of players are. Good story? Na, who needs that. But having my favorite fictional character I want to **** still around? Yes! That's important!

 

Pathetic and lousy roleplayers, go figure.

 

If you cater to that crowd, of course your game is starting to go down. Just wait for the next server merge when the number of players drops even more.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Diefenbaker

[tahol]

I'm lightside normally but I have a few dark characters to experience another side to the story. Leaving Theron to die was one of the most gutwrenching, excruciating DS choices any character of mine has made. He sounded so lost, so young. My DS agent loved it, as he's hated Theron from Day One and only ever wanted an excuse, but I too am haunted by it.

 

I couldn't do it, and I intended to do it with my Warrior. But he forgave Quinn...so I've been playing him as being total lunatic after he was in carbonate. But nope, still couldn't do it. I wanted to do it for science and YouTube, and I just couldn't. I don't have it in me to even RP a character like that. Not a single one of my characters will do it, not even my Bounty Hunter who has been the most unforgiving of them all. Nope. Nope. Nope.

Edited May 4, 2018 by tahol

[JennyFlynn]

Theron went rogue. He did what he did because he believed he knew what's best. This time it worked out.

 

What about next time? Hmmm? Not the first time he went rogue. Won't be the last time, and next time it won't be so nice as far as out characters know. So why should our characters trust him?

 

He's a wild card and he can't be trusted farther than you can force push him.

 

Yeah, yeah, next time it'll be all fine again, because plot armor (aka god awful writing), but our characters don't know that.

 

The reactions are interesting though. Players "swooning". It shows how vapid a lot of players are. Good story? Na, who needs that. But having my favorite fictional character I want to **** still around? Yes! That's important!

 

Pathetic and lousy roleplayers, go figure.

 

If you cater to that crowd, of course your game is starting to go down. Just wait for the next server merge when the number of players drops even more.

 

Theron has always been a wildcard, it's who he is and the life he's lead as part of the SIS, hardly surprising. The same goes for Lana essentially, who isn't above going behind your back and the backs of others either if you recall Rishi, and as Theron rightfully points out. I know he may go rogue again should the situation require it and I know that if he does, it'll be for the greater good, never out of malice or sheer evilness. I can live with that, I know the man I'm with.

 

Is the story flawless? No. Are there plot holes and unanswered questions? Yes. But looking at everything while bearing in mind the fact they couldn't make the FP so long as to touch on every little detail, what we got was acceptable and engaging enough in my opinion. In fact, there was more to the FP than I had personally anticipated so I'm okay with all of this and really not just for the sake of boinking my favorite set of pixels.

 

Your post is rather insulting to players of all kinds, especially considering there are many who'd intended to kill him but due to the way the FP played out, they changed their mind. Players who didn't have him romanced and who play hardcore DS on some of their characters, spared him, because of the FP and the story we were given on Nathema. I'd say that speaks highly to the quality of writing if even those players were swayed. It's unfortunate you can't see that and while I can understand it clearly didn't pan out as you'd personally hoped, there's no need to insult other players over it, or their preferred playing style.

[Tahana]

Lo and behold for anyone who's curious about Theron's future following Nathema and choices;

 

Tweet by Charles Boyd.

 

uh huh uh huh.. see I was right.. Them not putting a 'decision logging' under Theron for killing him was a conscious decision on their part. If my BH sees him again he'll shoot him on sight.. My sage though is glad he'll continue to be part of the story.

[casirabit]

Theron has always been a wildcard, it's who he is and the life he's lead as part of the SIS, hardly surprising. The same goes for Lana essentially, who isn't above going behind your back and the backs of others either if you recall Rishi, and as Theron rightfully points out. I know he may go rogue again should the situation require it and I know that if he does, it'll be for the greater good, never out of malice or sheer evilness. I can live with that, I know the man I'm with.

 

Is the story flawless? No. Are there plot holes and unanswered questions? Yes. But looking at everything while bearing in mind the fact they couldn't make the FP so long as to touch on every little detail, what we got was acceptable and engaging enough in my opinion. In fact, there was more to the FP than I had personally anticipated so I'm okay with all of this and really not just for the sake of boinking my favorite set of pixels.

 

Your post is rather insulting to players of all kinds, especially considering there are many who'd intended to kill him but due to the way the FP played out, they changed their mind. Players who didn't have him romanced and who play hardcore DS on some of their characters, spared him, because of the FP and the story we were given on Nathema. I'd say that speaks highly to the quality of writing if even those players were swayed. It's unfortunate you can't see that and while I can understand it clearly didn't pan out as you'd personally hoped, there's no need to insult other players over it, or their preferred playing style.

 

Thanks for writing this. I am a roleplay and you answered that post with more grace than I would have so thank you again.

[SithKoriandr]

I was also pretty sure I was going to kill Theron on my main. But you know what turned it for me? It wasn't his explanation, because I figured (as many others did) that he was secretly helping the Alliance. It was because of that brief conversation he had with Lana while you're running through the cave.

 

"You had to be kept in the dark, Lana. Isn't that what you told me on Rishi?"

 

Absolutely savage dig on Lana but so true and well placed. I instantly remembered how Lana betrayed Theron during SOR. Actually gave him up to the Revanites to be tortured so that we could find the location of the Revanite base.

 

Theron was doing the exact same thing but on a much bigger scale because the stakes were so much higher. Nice touch, writers. Seriously. That was the perfect time for a meaningful callback that tied the current game to an earlier event.

 

From that point forward I was like, Theron lives. He's back on the team.

 

Loved this call back. I was wondering if others missed it. I was even surprised that they remembered it as well.

 

That line and seeing Zash, both good things

[SithKoriandr]

The biggest problem for me with the Theron fake betrayal (he still died for it) is that it comes at the end of a long list of betrayals all for whatever reason.

 

I wont go into them here but a lot of people have had the opportunity to betray you here, hell even new betrayals can be witnessed and they can then be fed to a life stealing machine.

 

But 9 times out of 10 if you have say in the betrayers outcome you can forgive them because it was done for the right reasons. So ultimately SWTOR becomes as far from real hard hitting stories and in the childrens tv show version where there is no real betrayal its all just friends doing what they think is right and by the end of the show we all have a good laugh about it and hug it out.

 

In many ways if Theron's betrayal had been real, and he had really come to hate what the alliance had become. Then this would have been a more impactful arc than, instead its oh I bet his playing along to gain their trust, that silly Theron always wanting to be a spy. Welcome back buddy I knew you were up to something!

 

As mentioned in this thread, Lana betrayed Theron on Rishi. Did you forgive Lana? Has she stuck around this whole time?

[Estelindis]

I loved that he called Lana out on the Rishi thing. It definitely made her think things through. And being able to appear to take charge for once and tell her to trust me was nice.

Couldn't agree more. I really feel like the Lana/Theron relationship entered a new phase here where they're genuinely on more of an even/equal footing, and that's because Lana accepts that if she believes she was right to do that to Theron he had to be right to do it to us. And us explicitly being able to ask Lana to trust our judgment made me feel my character is actually, genuinely Lana's commander in a way nothing else up to this point did. Great work.

 

I would have liked it better if there had been two sides.

1. Dark Side: Theron does not like what we do and betrays us.

2. Bright side: The same story as now.

That would have been more credible. My Sith warrior is crazy and kills everything around him. And Theron is still faithful ....

Yeah, this aspect is a little strange. By comparison to someone who wants to use the machine gods for destructive purposes, maybe Theron can reasonably be loyal even to some DS maniac. But ultimately it still only makes limited sense. There were several points at which Theron seemed to have genuine feeling for my DS agent who makes 90% tyrannical choices and has only ever held him in contempt (when allowed - sometimes cutscene auto-dialogue made him respectful to Theron, bah). I guess there's only so much divergence they have resources to give us.

[SithKoriandr]

Lo and behold for anyone who's curious about Theron's future following Nathema and choices;

 

Tweet by Charles Boyd.

 

Good! I like Theron and Lana and I want companions that actually stay with us, and not disappear like our crew did.

[Lium]

Another thing I want to mention about sparing Theron. My female SW romanced Malavai, but when the opportunity presented itself to kill him for his betrayal, she took it and his life.

 

My SW is more grey and she actually doesn't care about loyalty. She cares about honesty. If Malavai had said something similar to what Theron said when confronted for his betrayal, she would have forgiven him because his actions, though painful, were in her and her forces' best interest. But that's not what he said. He just basically said, "Yeah about that. Sorry. Won't happen again." So yeah, I knew he was dead.

 

That's quite different than Theron, who my SW will spare because he explains everything AND Lana did the exact same thing on Rishi. Theron was acting to protect the Alliance and was covering my back in the only way an expert spy could.

 

There are different kinds of betrayals. And this one proved to be a "good" betrayal.

[vadess]

Did we watch different cutscenes? He did what he did to save the Alliance, and to save the Outlander and it fits with his character as a spy being a double agent. So... Get over it. The Alliance is saved because he took a HUGE risk.

[Seelvir]

Guys ... GUYS!

 

90+ posts in, I haven't read all of them, so this may have come up ... BUT ...

 

... seriously ... you think THAT scene on Nathema is where Bioware elected to have the legendary Shan line wink out of existence?

 

No.

 

Satele is a year or two past child bearing age, and Theron is a smexy virile dude who certainly has the juicey juice to advance the Shan line into the next big Bioware Star Wars whatever. For Theron to be really real dead would equate to the death of a line of characters central to 15 real world years of Bioware Star Wars storytelling.

 

Dude ain't dead, cause he ain't got no babies.

 

Now ... as soon as he knocks up some Sith girl while she's halfway done converting to the Jedi Order, THEN you Theron lovers need to worry, because Theron's not the kind of character writers ever let live out their elder days in peace.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Seelvir

[Quraswren]

Did we watch different cutscenes? He did what he did to save the Alliance, and to save the Outlander and it fits with his character as a spy being a double agent. So... Get over it. The Alliance is saved because he took a HUGE risk.

 

The guy was a idiot. Did you listen to him? He admitted he was reckless and foolish and put thousands at risk as well as personally put my toon through hell for that foolishness.

 

Compounded by the fact that only he and Lana have a secret language only they can decipher and that dummy couldn't get any message to me yet did through the story at other times? This so-called awesome spy and he can't come up with even another way to tell his boss whats he's doing as if there are not places where there are no electronics.

 

If he had been smarter once he figured out what was happening, we could have actually sent the fleet to the enemy instead of letting the enemy destroy it all. He didn't save the Alliance. He set it back to pointless Emp vs Rep that never goes anywhere.

 

He should die for being reckless and foolish and betraying me. bioware not giving that kill option because they want to force that goof and his useless "I'll just hide in the shadows mom while everyone else suffers" back in later was just in poor taste and writing.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Quraswren

[SithKoriandr]

The guy was a idiot. Did you listen to him? He admitted he was reckless and foolish and put thousands at risk as well as personally put my toon through hell for that foolishness.

 

Compounded by the fact that only he and Lana have a secret language only they can decipher and that dummy couldn't get any message to me yet did through the story at other times? This so-called awesome spy and he can't come up with even another way to tell his boss whats he's doing as if there are not places where there are no electronics.

 

If he had been smarter once he figured out what was happening, we could have actually sent the fleet to the enemy instead of letting the enemy destroy it all. He didn't save the Alliance. He set it back to pointless Emp vs Rep that never goes anywhere.

 

He should die for being reckless and foolish and betraying me. bioware not giving that kill option because they want to force that goof and his useless "I'll just hide in the shadows mom while everyone else suffers" back in later was just in poor taste and writing.

 

Lana says it's only one they can decipher. Do you really think a Gemini droid, couldn't decipher it? Lana doesn't know of the droid, Theron did.

 

As for the reckless and foolish, isn't every NPC crew member guilty of this? Did you kill Kaliyo for being reckles (or purposely send Kaliyo to kill Aric?)

 

Are you ready to kill Lana for being reckless on Rishi?

 

I just ask, because I wonder if people just want to kill all reckless and foolish NPCs or just the ones they hate for some reason

[SerraShar]

Lana says it's only one they can decipher. Do you really think a Gemini droid, couldn't decipher it? Lana doesn't know of the droid, Theron did.

 

As for the reckless and foolish, isn't every NPC crew member guilty of this? Did you kill Kaliyo for being reckles (or purposely send Kaliyo to kill Aric?)

 

Are you ready to kill Lana for being reckless on Rishi?

 

I just ask, because I wonder if people just want to kill all reckless and foolish NPCs or just the ones they hate for some reason

 

I think most players frustration and I'm merely guessing , come from the fact that some companions got the real 'Lightsaber to the gut' while others , got a preferred treatement which just stinks .

 

They really should treat them all the same , regardless of class . The option to kill and keep should be the player choice . Something they seem to not hear at all .

 

And I personally got that frustration not just with companions , but with others stuff as well . A good exemple , is how many time did we crash land a ship ? Is it really that hard to drive it or find a good pilot ? And what happen to coming with something NEW ?

 

I kill and find fun reasons for the why , that's my defense yo Honor!

[LeelaSeventen]

There seems to be a lot of kill happy people in the game. I think some just want to do dark side just to do dark side.

 

Not sure why anyone would kill Theron, it was obvious he decided to do some secret agent stuff. Lana did almost the exact same thing, she executed a plan on rishi and didn't tell anyone about it. They are both agents who know that you need to keep things quiet sometimes.

[SithKoriandr]

I think most players frustration and I'm merely guessing , come from the fact that some companions got the real 'Lightsaber to the gut' while others , got a preferred treatement which just stinks .

 

They really should treat them all the same , regardless of class . The option to kill and keep should be the player choice . Something they seem to not hear at all .

 

And I personally got that frustration not just with companions , but with others stuff as well . A good exemple , is how many time did we crash land a ship ? Is it really that hard to drive it or find a good pilot ? And what happen to coming with something NEW ?

 

I kill and find fun reasons for the why , that's my defense yo Honor!

 

My frustration was not using MY ship in the cut scene. Why am I flying around in some other ship instead of mine?

 

I don't know. I can't imagine it being good for the devs to allow players to kill off so many NPCs, as it forces them to use another NPC or make a new one. I personally would hate it, if I kept losing companions in cutscenes because they became killable.

[casirabit]

I think most players frustration and I'm merely guessing , come from the fact that some companions got the real 'Lightsaber to the gut' while others , got a preferred treatement which just stinks .

 

They really should treat them all the same , regardless of class . The option to kill and keep should be the player choice . Something they seem to not hear at all .

 

And I personally got that frustration not just with companions , but with others stuff as well . A good exemple , is how many time did we crash land a ship ? Is it really that hard to drive it or find a good pilot ? And what happen to coming with something NEW ?

 

I kill and find fun reasons for the why , that's my defense yo Honor!

 

The problem with the kill option is that the ones that don't kill a companion get the companion out of their story as well and that frankly isn't right. While you may want a companion out of your story someone else may not and it has gotten to the point too many companions were being killed and therefore removed from everyone's story, not just the ones that killed them.

[LeelaSeventen]

Maybe they did the Star Trek route and we have self replicating shuttles Or koth is flying the shuttle, you know he does like to crash ships.

 

Yeah why were we using a shuttle? We get our ships back and we never use them, what is the point of getting them back then.

[Quraswren]

Lana says it's only one they can decipher. Do you really think a Gemini droid, couldn't decipher it? Lana doesn't know of the droid, Theron did.

 

They made it clear they were the only ones that could do it. So no Gemini couldn't but even then, that isn't the only way to communicate for some so called super spy that apparently wasn't so super he couldn't get me a message before hand.

 

As for the reckless and foolish, isn't every NPC crew member guilty of this? Did you kill Kaliyo for being reckles (or purposely send Kaliyo to kill Aric?)

 

Combined with other things like foolish and just being general stupid and putting the lives of thousands in danger and betraying me (which he made sure to say) as well as put you through hell. Then yea. Any of them should be killable.

 

Are you ready to kill Lana for being reckless on Rishi?

 

You bet I am and especially so if she pulls the foolish card as well as the other general stupid things theron did.. Shes as worthless as theron.

 

I just ask, because I wonder if people just want to kill all reckless and foolish NPCs or just the ones they hate for some reason

Probably just the ones that are reckless, foolish and just generally idiots who do their own thing. Are not smart enough to have a secret conversation (which could be done in a few ways) as well as put me and thousands in danger. Along with leading my enemy directly to yet another super weapon that destroys our entire fleet and the gravestone.

 

Sorry but he deserves to die and be forced back in at some later time. His time is over. After reading biowares post and knowing that was their plan all along, it makes the whole story even worse. Nothing but a story created for their convenience. Not because it was a good story.

 

The problem with the kill option is that the ones that don't kill a companion get the companion out of their story as well and that frankly isn't right. While you may want a companion out of your story someone else may not and it has gotten to the point too many companions were being killed and therefore removed from everyone's story, not just the ones that killed them.

 

Ugh, Arcaan says hi.

 

I killed him. I got nothing and I'm more than OK with that.

 

If someone let him live, they got a love shack scene and one in this story.

 

So, it is right to allow those that feel companions should die get the chance to do it. That doesn't stop bioware from doing what is right and doing things for people that let them live.

 

That is what should have happened here.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Quraswren

[SerraShar]

Lana did almost the exact same thing, she executed a plan on rishi and didn't tell anyone about it. They are both agents who know that you need to keep things quiet sometimes.

I don't know how can you compare the two though . The plan on rishi was 1) a spur of the moment thing , she saw a chance and took it . Vs Theron who knew months ago and didn't tell anyone . 2) In her plan , Lana risked Theron and herself . Vs Theron who risked ALOT of more peoples .

 

The only thing they have in commun is that they both apologize . But that's about it .