Theron - Nathema Spoilers

[Swingkittie]

I am HAUNTED by choosing to leave him to die... It's been 9 hours, I've redone it lightside twice now, but still. I'm darkside normally but that scene cut me to the bone

 

Do they show him die though? I am curious cause even though I have a dark side character or two that do not like him, I am so hesitant to make that choice. I guess I have to think of it in terms of its my character not me, but I know how you feel cause I felt the same after killing Quinn on my only female warrior. (I actually made another warrior to make up for it, but what's done is done for my original).

 

Also can someone post Satele's letter?

[Raynezazki]

You again. The games motto is : "Play YOUR Way!" not, "Play how someone else would!"

Nah it's literally the actions of an idiot to kill someone who saved you. You can play one but you're playing an idiot. Like I didn't say you couldn't play an idiot. Just be aware that's what you're playing.

 

And stupid evil caricature that should've been stabbed in the back/abandoned years ago really and only still has friends via power of the plot.

 

I play idiots sometimes but I acknowledge they're dumb.

 

Granted I prefer my evil with a brain.

 

If there was ever proof that Dark Helmet was wrong about why evil would triumph, it's to be found among the players (or maybe the writers?) of this game, I think.

 

XD but like I just can't with people wanting to kill him. do people just spacebar or something? It's such a cutting off your nose to spite your face scenario the mind boggles.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Raynezazki

[Estelindis]

I am HAUNTED by choosing to leave him to die... It's been 9 hours, I've redone it lightside twice now, but still. I'm darkside normally but that scene cut me to the bone

I'm lightside normally but I have a few dark characters to experience another side to the story. Leaving Theron to die was one of the most gutwrenching, excruciating DS choices any character of mine has made. He sounded so lost, so young. My DS agent loved it, as he's hated Theron from Day One and only ever wanted an excuse, but I too am haunted by it.

[Seelvir]

Also can someone post Satele's letter?

 

Sure:

 

Subject: Theron

I sensed the moment my son's life ended. He was alone, reaching out to a friend who wasn't there. But he wasn't afraid--he was sad. And he was sorry.

 

Theron deceived you. He put thousands of lives at risk, and you wanted vengeance--or perhaps justice. I understand your reasons. He was rash and reckless, and had no regard for his own safety. But I will ensure the Republic remembers him as a hero, despite what you may feel.

 

He was a good man, Commander, and I will always be proud of him. I wish I had told him that.

[ThomasStarWars]

Sure:

 

Subject: Theron

I sensed the moment my son's life ended. He was alone, reaching out to a friend who wasn't there. But he wasn't afraid--he was sad. And he was sorry.

 

Theron deceived you. He put thousands of lives at risk, and you wanted vengeance--or perhaps justice. I understand your reasons. He was rash and reckless, and had no regard for his own safety. But I will ensure the Republic remembers him as a hero, despite what you may feel.

 

He was a good man, Commander, and I will always be proud of him. I wish I had told him that.

 

she agrees he was an idiot.

[MikeCobalt]

Once again....Its *How* all this has been *Written. What Theron has done here, all along since Umbarra is not different really then what Real Life spies and Espionage networks have been doing for ages especially during times of war (Or not War). Its just the way all this has been explained (Written). BioWare really "screwed the pooch" with the Traitor / Theron story line (That I've suspected was only a bridge until the next story (6.0) was scheduled). The Forum's were a fiery mess with Umbarra but had to 1- continue or 2- dump everything to do............ So now that all that / this was so poorly explained (why / when / how) its left the LS / LI players satisfied but the DS players "Hanging" , "Unfinished" and "Ungratified". BW had to do something that did not lead to a Mass of lost Sub.'s over "Dead Theron" so they "Straddled the Fence" Kinda. Similar to Ashara's reunion LI / LS good, DS slap down..Its all in the writing. Edited May 4, 2018 by MikeCobalt

[JennyFlynn]

she agrees he was an idiot.

You're not very good with subtlety, are you? She's also, without stating it directly, telling you off for abandoning him when he needed you most. Working in the guilt trip about how sad and sorry he felt.

 

Furthermore, in her shoes, had I saved him, I'd tell you the same. Hope you're gullible enough to believe he's dead so you won't chase him, so you won't try and kill him after all. Let you think he's dead to bide time for his recovery, to keep him safe and away from you.

 

Satele's a *****, imo, but she's far from stupid. She knows how to pick her words and play the game and she's not above manipulation and lying, Jedi as she may be. So, no matter what that letter says, it's no proof to me and sure, I could be wrong but until I'm proven wrong, I'm sticking to my guns and keeping the faith.

[Raynezazki]

You're not very good with subtlety, are you? She's also, without stating it directly, telling you off for abandoning him when he needed you most. Working in the guilt trip about how sad and sorry he felt.

 

Furthermore, in her shoes, had I saved him, I'd tell you the same. Hope you're gullible enough to believe he's dead so you won't chase him, so you won't try and kill him after all. Let you think he's dead to bide time for his recovery, to keep him safe and away from you.

This is the same character that killed someone that saved them and their army. It's pretty canonical that character is an idiot.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Raynezazki

[casirabit]

You're not very good with subtlety, are you? She's also, without stating it directly, telling you off for abandoning him when he needed you most. Working in the guilt trip about how sad and sorry he felt.

 

Furthermore, in her shoes, had I saved him, I'd tell you the same. Hope you're gullible enough to believe he's dead so you won't chase him, so you won't try and kill him after all. Let you think he's dead to bide time for his recovery, to keep him safe and away from you.

 

Satele's a *****, imo, but she's far from stupid. She knows how to pick her words and play the game and she's not above manipulation and lying, Jedi as she may be. So, no matter what that letter says, it's no proof to me and sure, I could be wrong but until I'm proven wrong, I'm sticking to my guns and keeping the faith.

 

Really why would anyone believe Satele's letter after they left her son to die on the planet. Yea she is really going to admit that he's alive and recovering. I believe he is still alive as well.

[Quraswren]

SNIP... I believe he is still alive as well.

 

The sad part is you are most likely right. Of course he's alive and it gives bioware the ability to not only bring him back but his "let me abandon the Republic in their time of need" mom as well.

[ThomasStarWars]

after you leave theron you see satele sad and angry and shes on coruscant feeling his death. believe what you want but him being alive its unimaginable... to feel better that he's going to be a brick from now on. but if arcann can continue on after he got killed a year ago, theron will as well. if you let him live. get over it. Edited May 4, 2018 by ThomasStarWars

[Raynezazki]

The sad part is you are most likely right. Of course he's alive and it gives bioware the ability to not only bring him back but his "let me abandon the Republic in their time of need" mom as well.

 

To be honest I wish BW would do what they usually do in their SP games. If you killed the character you lose out on content full stop. There's no need to protect people from their mistakes.

[Tahana]

Sorry you feel that way. Personally I am happy with how they handled him.

 

/grumble.. my goodie two shoes sage had to take him back.. but my BH is going to leave him to rot..

 

But I agree I actually really like how they handled that part of the story.. and the FP was awesome..

[JennyFlynn]

after you leave theron you see satele sad and angry and shes on coruscant feeling his death. believe what you want but him being alive its just pure delusion... to feel better than he's going to be a brick from now on.

She is in a room with lights and databanks, there is absolutely nothing to say she's on Coruscant other than a Republic banner in the background. She could be anywhere, including on her own ship/fleet. She could have just as easily been keeping an eye on this situation for a while now, especially given your broadcast putting a bounty on his head, and be nearby. Yes, she has a look of sorrow and anger, most would if they sensed their kid was dying, but dying doesn't equal dead.

 

As for Theron, yes, some stuff blows up behind him and there's a dust cloud but it clears and shows him still sat there. Last you see is his head lul down which could both mean death, or a gesture of giving up hope and resigning himself to his fate. There is zero actual proof that he dies right there in that moment.

Edited May 4, 2018 by JennyFlynn

[MikeCobalt]

SWTOR should get a different writer, everything in this game is centered around the "Story". Alienating the DS players twice now (Ashara's reunion / Therons Arc) both failed to cater equally to the LS / DS players infact going beyond necessary in the reunion and leaving Therons story *Open like an ongoing wound. In a "Story Based Game" nothing can be better then the quality of the "Story". Never should have started this arc and like the reunions has caused issues that wont fade.

[ThomasStarWars]

She is in a room with lights and databanks, there is absolutely nothing to say she's on Coruscant other than a Republic banner in the background. She could be anywhere, including on her own ship/fleet. She could have just as easily been keeping an eye on this situation for a while now, especially given your broadcast putting a bounty on his head, and be nearby. Yes, she has a look of sorrow and anger, most would if they sensed their kid was dying, but dying doesn't equal dead.

 

As for Theron, yes, some stuff blows up behind him and there's a dust cloud but it clears and shows him still sat there. Last you see is his head lul down which could both mean death, or a gesture of giving up hope and resigning himself to his fate. There is zero actual proof that he dies right there in that moment.

 

you dont see people putting others down for choosing the light side, why is it only when its dark side you can be attacked for it. or have your choices invalidated by people who know nothing other than whats in front of them? do you work for bioware? thought not

Edited May 4, 2018 by ThomasStarWars

[Estelindis]

you dont see people putting others down for choosing the light side, why is it only when its dark side you can be attacked for it. or have your choices invalidated by people who know nothing other than whats in front of them?

Actually you put people down by calling their interpretation "delusion." As for what we don't see other people doing, I don't (at the moment!) see other people persistently posting in fan-love threads how pleased they are at a character's apparent death.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Estelindis

[ThomasStarWars]

Actually you put people down by calling their interpretation "delusion." As for what we don't see other people doing, I don't (at the moment!) see other people persistently posting in fan-love threads how pleased they are at a character's apparent death.

 

Hey i put spoiler tags. you chose to open it

[Raynezazki]

SWTOR should get a different writer, everything in this game is centered around the "Story". Alienating the DS players twice now (Ashara's reunion / Therons Arc) both failed to cater equally to the LS / DS players infact going beyond necessary in the reunion and leaving Therons story *Open like an ongoing wound. In a "Story Based Game" nothing can be better then the quality of the "Story". Never should have started this arc and like the reunions has caused issues that wont fade.

 

Eh as a DSer I'm fine with Theron's arc. Dark =/= stupid.

 

Ashara on the other hand was nonsense. There's absolute no reason the PC should've stood there and took that "You have no control over me." simpering. Even if she'd just ran off and been unkillable it'd been better than the PC standing there like an oaf.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Raynezazki

[Neulwen]

I agree it was silly to just leave him to die. Even my DS agent who kinda hates Theron didn't do it. He would have killed him himself to make sure, but he would have done this a long time ago, not after Theron had helped them by infiltrating the enemy and shown his loyalty and value. But, we are limited by where the story takes us. My DS Agent would never be in this whole Alliance situation to begin with. And, well, Theron would not in his right mind be supporting my DS Agent anyway. So what you gonna do. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I also thought Theron would reappear in 6.0 no matter our choice, but after learning of Satele's letter, I'm not so sure. It seems unlikely that there would be such differences in the story that Theron doesn't appear for some players, but he might just get a very small role.

[JennyFlynn]

you dont see people putting others down for choosing the light side, why is it only when its dark side you can be attacked for it. or have your choices invalidated by people who know nothing other than whats in front of them? do you work for bioware? thought not

I'm not attacking you for choosing DS options. Go for it, really, because that's not what I'm talking about.

 

You're discussing how you interpret the scene and the letter, which is a case of perception and opinion and one I do not share. My view is different, what I took away from the scene and letter is different to what you took from it and I am as free to voice my beliefs and thoughts on the matter as you are.

 

I'm not telling you off for your DS choices. You walked away and abandoned him, that's your choice and your gameplay, feel free. I'm sure you have your reasons and you are perfectly allowed to believe he is dead, if that makes you happy. I am simply, and gratefully, just not as convinced.

[Raynezazki]

I agree it was silly to just leave him to die. Even my DS agent who kinda hates Theron didn't do it. He would have killed him himself to make sure, but he would have done this a long time ago, not after Theron had helped them by infiltrating the enemy and shown his loyalty and value. But, we are limited by where the story takes us. My DS Agent would never be in this whole Alliance situation to begin with. And, well, Theron would not in his right mind be supporting my DS Agent anyway. So what you gonna do. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I also thought Theron would reappear in 6.0 no matter our choice, but after learning of Satele's letter, I'm not so sure. It seems unlikely that there would be such differences in the story that Theron doesn't appear for some players, but he might just get a very small role.

 

Yep my Inquisitor is a loon as his reaction to Theron doing that was "oh I can hold that betrayal over his head forever" (and while he's a bit miffed he fell for it at first he's not really that mad about it. Just Theron's guilt is useful) especially given how Theron pretty much grovels to be let back. Theron pretty much showed he's very resourceful and willing to do what it takes both attributes my Emperor could use for a spy. Lana means well but...well she's not very competent. Makes a great bodyguard but as a spymaster? Not so much.

 

And given the fact that he's lost his super fleet and still means to control his throne and now realizes he has a bunch of snakes in the grass to kill Theron will be very useful to him in rooting them out and killing them. For the greater good of course.

 

But yeah he'll probably be Arcann'd at best and Koth at worse. (Like *** I spared Koth for a reason devs. Where was he?!?)

Edited May 4, 2018 by Raynezazki

[casirabit]

Hey i put spoiler tags. you chose to open it

 

You knew it was a fan forum yet you chose to go there and gloat. Even though I am not a fan of Arcann I do not go to the Arcann fan area and post things like that. I have enough courtesy for those that do like Arcann to not post in a thread like that.

[ThomasStarWars]

You knew it was a fan forum yet you chose to go there and gloat. Even though I am not a fan of Arcann I do not go to the Arcann fan area and post things like that. I have enough courtesy for those that do like Arcann to not post in a thread like that.

 

idk, ive seen a lot of fans from fan threads coming to theron kill threads and preaching like this thread. even the first reply is very passive aggressive.

Edited May 4, 2018 by ThomasStarWars

[Estelindis]

idk, ive seen a lot of fans from fan threads coming to theron kill threads and preaching like this thread. even the first reply is very passive aggressive.

I was not being passive aggressive. It's not some outrage to think that the range of options we had for Theron, from forgiving him to leaving him to die in despair, was sufficient. As I have said in many threads on many different story subjects, BW only have so much in the way of resources - since they can't give us every option under the sun, it's most important for them to give us a good range that allows genuine RPing choice. I think they succeeded in this FP.

 

For what it's worth, I believe that Theron did actually die if the DS choice was taken. But whether that's true or not, it seems he thinks he'd going to die when the Commander leaves him there, which is harsh in its own right. In any case, it's good that his fate was not totally set in stone, in case they want to use him in future. It'll be an asspull unless they do it right, but it's an option at least.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Estelindis