Theron - Nathema Spoilers

[ThomasStarWars]

I was not being passive aggressive. It's not some outrage to think that the range of options we had for Theron, from forgiving him to leaving him to die in despair, was sufficient. As I have said in many threads on many different story subjects, BW only have so much in the way of resources - since they can't give us every option under the sun, it's most important for them to give us a good range that allows genuine RPing choice. I think they succeeded in this FP.

 

For what it's worth, I believe that Theron did actually die if the DS choice was taken. But whether that's true or not, it seems he thinks he'd going to die when the Commander leaves him there, which is harsh in its own right. In any case, it's good that his fate was not totally set in stone, in case they want to use him in future. It'll be an asspull unless they do it right, but it's an option at least.

 

sorry then i must have read your reply out of context, i thought you said "sorry you feel that way" in the passive aggressive tone toward them choosing dark side. i agree with everything you said in this quote though.

[Newyankalt]

To me, as an emperor, anyone who betrays me, for good or not, must die.

 

A) He didn't really betray you

 

B) You are emperor of practically nothing now. A fancy title and that's pretty much it.

[ThomasStarWars]

A) He didn't really betray you

 

B) You are emperor of practically nothing now. A fancy title and that's pretty much it.

 

they didnt even give us the titles back then

[Raynezazki]

A) He didn't really betray you

 

B) You are emperor of practically nothing now. A fancy title and that's pretty much it.

 

to be fair the fleet's gone but you can rebuild.

 

But you know it'd help to have a spymaster when you're rebuilding considering your easy mode fleet is gone.

 

Also counting Lana as as spymaster is laughable. She's a great bodyguard. But spymaster? Naaaah.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Raynezazki

[SithKoriandr]

she agrees he was an idiot.

 

Which can easily be said of any dark sider. I've seen those choices and players saying "He's an idiot and my dark sider will/did kill him." is thusly just as much an idiot.

 

[Raynezazki]

Which can easily be said of any dark sider. I've seen those choices and players saying "He's an idiot and my dark sider will/did kill him." is thusly just as much an idiot.

 

Oi don't brush my poor DS characters with that (Granted they have to sometimes make LS choices because the DS choices are stupid evil but they're still DS V somehow )

[devilkat]

she agrees he was an idiot.

 

Well, to be fair, Theron agrees that he's an idiot, so this really doesn't tell you much.

[Cawyden]

If you take Theron back with you you can see that he is standing up and walking (although with help from Lana). You don't see them applying a med kit or something else first. And they don't have to show these seconds where they leave - they could just have faded to black and you see Theron and Lana again on Odessen.

 

Based on this Theron should still be alive when you see him drop his head - maybe resignation as someone said earlier but in the LS choice scene he is able to walk so I don't see why in the DS scene he should die seconds later.

 

And while Satele might be too far away to help there might be still other people from the order alive - even if you kill everyone you encounter some might be hidden or outside your reach. They might keep him alive and taken as prisoner...

 

I am not sure but every other companion death in kotfe/kotet is done actively by the player right? Why would they change it for Theron? And I agree, Sateles letter means nothing - people (even Jedi) can lie.

 

Everyone is free to believe what they like but I am personally not convinced he his dead.

 

I don't know if this means he will return for everyone (even if you choose to leave him behind or send him away on Odessen) but I hope we will at least see something from him in the future for those who spared him.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Cawyden

[vian]

Based on this Theron should still be alive when you see him drop his head - maybe resignation as someone said earlier but in the LS choice scene he is able to walk so I don't see why in the DS scene he should die seconds later.

 

Maybe he died of a broken heart; you know, just lost the will to live. I mean, if it was good enough for Padme ... (why yes, I AM still salty about that ... )

[Keta]

Did anyone save Theron, then answer "No" when he asked to rejoin the alliance? just curious how that option might have played out.

[Swingkittie]

I agree it was silly to just leave him to die. Even my DS agent who kinda hates Theron didn't do it. He would have killed him himself to make sure, but he would have done this a long time ago, not after Theron had helped them by infiltrating the enemy and shown his loyalty and value. But, we are limited by where the story takes us. My DS Agent would never be in this whole Alliance situation to begin with. And, well, Theron would not in his right mind be supporting my DS Agent anyway. So what you gonna do. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I also thought Theron would reappear in 6.0 no matter our choice, but after learning of Satele's letter, I'm not so sure. It seems unlikely that there would be such differences in the story that Theron doesn't appear for some players, but he might just get a very small role.

 

I agree with you but about the letter. I found it interesting but also think of the letters Theron sent our characters. I will put in spoiler quotes just in case people haven't got this far.

The bounty response letter was filled with anger toward our character, but when we finally meet up with him - he is filled with regret over the choices he made and tries to explain everything. Clearly, his tone is way different than the letter and not a true reflection of how he feels toward the commander. He lied in the letter because the evil droid was watching and monitoring everything.

 

Now what if Satele sent this letter because she wants you to believe he died. Maybe she pulled a Senya and went to look for him to save him and is getting him healed. I think the end scene was not a permanent resolution to the notion that he died. He could have passed out from pain or blood loss. We have seen in many games and movies where that happens. For example, in the show Walking Dead I think it was season 6, you see Glenn on the ground with zombies crawling on top of him and guts are being pulled out. You see Glenn's dead panned face and the episode ends. What a cliffhanger that was! Then a few episodes later you find out there was another body on top of him and that is who the zombies were eating and Glenn got to live a little while longer.

 

 

So my point is that it wouldn't be at all surprising that Theron comes back. That he didn't really die. I think if that was what the Devs wanted then they would have given a true kill option like they did for other characters in this game. But I guess we will wait and see.

[Paulsutherland]

If Theron comes back my DS Inq will just kill him on the spot.

 

I want off the Theron and Lana show ... not more.

[Costello]

My strong hope (so probably in vein) is that the Lana and Theron show is over.

 

Sure I believe Theron had to die at the end of the arc, I believe it was written in the way it was because that was the right ending, his story is over. We have had 3 years of Lana and Theron being the primary NPC's (along with the Valkorians and their guards and neighbors), the quest givers the people driving the story. Hell thats far longer than I spent with the fat man as my master.

 

Just seeing the fat man again reminded me how good the early story was. Getting those holo messages on my ship, recruiting my Dark Apprentice, seeing canon worlds etc etc. If Jaesa gets a year of story content I'd be amazed and thats a 3rd of what Lana and Theron have received, and shes my apprentice and first wife.

 

While yes it did take a couple of seconds to decide to let Theron die, the real reason for that is that its been so long since he tried to kill me on Iokath and all the times since rather than come to me. I can barely remember the betrayal, him shooting Lana on the train, the death of all those Chiss so he could get something the bunch of losers needed. If you take the flashpoint as a stand alone then his barely betrayed you at all, and with it having been a year since the first betrayal is it any wonder its harder to kill him for something you can barely remember him doing. But if there is one day a canon ending, it should be death just as Obi Wan had to die. So we can move on to new companions, with any luck Jeasa and not a bunch of space pirates.

[Lium]

I was also pretty sure I was going to kill Theron on my main. But you know what turned it for me? It wasn't his explanation, because I figured (as many others did) that he was secretly helping the Alliance. It was because of that brief conversation he had with Lana while you're running through the cave.

 

"You had to be kept in the dark, Lana. Isn't that what you told me on Rishi?"

 

Absolutely savage dig on Lana but so true and well placed. I instantly remembered how Lana betrayed Theron during SOR. Actually gave him up to the Revanites to be tortured so that we could find the location of the Revanite base.

 

Theron was doing the exact same thing but on a much bigger scale because the stakes were so much higher. Nice touch, writers. Seriously. That was the perfect time for a meaningful callback that tied the current game to an earlier event.

 

From that point forward I was like, Theron lives. He's back on the team.

[JattaGin]

Are you kidding me?!?

 

I don't get to kill Theron?!? I just leave him to die.

 

After everything he did, I wanted to stick my lightsaber right through his heart.

 

As much as I wanted to do that, too... After how that chapter played out there was no motivation left for my nasty Sith Warrior to do so. I think BW did a very good job in killing my lust for killing him.

 

Before: Kill Theron, kill Theron, kill Theron!

 

After: Theron's dead. I'm a sad panda.

 

His last view showed so much dignity and integrity. I see him with different eyes now.

Edited May 4, 2018 by JattaGin

[JennyFlynn]

I have to say I'm really impressed with, and pleasantly surprised by how many people were set on killing him for this and wound up changing their minds as they played through the chapter. That really speaks volumes about how Bioware handled this from the story to the dialogue, to the animations and expressions.

 

I also loved the on-the-go conversations. It made me feel they were both really with me (rather than mimes tagging along) and it seemed to slowly resolve the animosity from Lana's end and get them both in a good place again with each other.

 

Between his ambiguous 'death' and what he tells a romanced char back on Odessen when discussing the way forward, I do feel more assured that BW intends to keep him involved in future story as much as Lana. It just had a really promising vibe to it.

[Tahana]

So my point is that it wouldn't be at all surprising that Theron comes back. That he didn't really die. I think if that was what the Devs wanted then they would have given a true kill option like they did for other characters in this game. But I guess we will wait and see.

 

 

 

My guess is that he will.. My BH killed him because he won't tolerate a traitor for any reason. So he left Theron to die.. (I'm glad BW listened and gave us the option to play our story, our way)... My sage on the other hand being the goodie two shoes that he is welcomed Theron back into the family, and didn't send him packing for his traitorous ways even though he could have.

 

That being said, on every other character that I've had to make a decision on there is a note under them in the companion selection as to what I did or didn't do when they died. There is no such entry for Theron. There is just the same one for when I placed the bounty on his head.

 

[SerraShar]

I personally let him die on my DS . Cose..you know....killing is fun lol .

 

 

But seeing Satele . Make me wonder if he really is dead . I mean , doesn't she have some kind of teleportation ability like Revan ? (She did just vanish in one chapter when my DS tried to kill her) . She could have came to save him .

 

 

Though ?

[casirabit]

I have to say I'm really impressed with, and pleasantly surprised by how many people were set on killing him for this and wound up changing their minds as they played through the chapter. That really speaks volumes about how Bioware handled this from the story to the dialogue, to the animations and expressions.

 

I also loved the on-the-go conversations. It made me feel they were both really with me (rather than mimes tagging along) and it seemed to slowly resolve the animosity from Lana's end and get them both in a good place again with each other.

 

Between his ambiguous 'death' and what he tells a romanced char back on Odessen when discussing the way forward, I do feel more assured that BW intends to keep him involved in future story as much as Lana. It just had a really promising vibe to it.

 

Yea I had made up my mind to kill him on my sorceress as she doesn't handle betrayal well but after his explanation and the comments between him and Lana she couldn't. She remembered what Lana did on Rishi and therefore she forgave Theron and brought him back on her team.

 

Now I am curious to one thing when you have a choice at the end to choose who to contact how that is going to play out. For my sage no big deal she is republic through and through but my sorceress chose for Lana to contact the Republic. I am interested to see how they are going to do that with opposite factions.

Edited May 4, 2018 by casirabit

[JennyFlynn]

Now I am curious to one thing when you have a choice at the end to choose who to contact how that is going to play out. For my sage no big deal she is republic through and through but my sorceress chose for Lana to contact the Republic. I am interested to see how they are going to do that with opposite factions.

So am I. My Jedi Knight told Lana to contact the Empire as she's entirely disillusioned with the Republic, regardless of Satele's letter. I'm curious to see how that'll play out.

[Costello]

The biggest problem for me with the Theron fake betrayal (he still died for it) is that it comes at the end of a long list of betrayals all for whatever reason.

 

I wont go into them here but a lot of people have had the opportunity to betray you here, hell even new betrayals can be witnessed and they can then be fed to a life stealing machine.

 

But 9 times out of 10 if you have say in the betrayers outcome you can forgive them because it was done for the right reasons. So ultimately SWTOR becomes as far from real hard hitting stories and in the childrens tv show version where there is no real betrayal its all just friends doing what they think is right and by the end of the show we all have a good laugh about it and hug it out.

 

In many ways if Theron's betrayal had been real, and he had really come to hate what the alliance had become. Then this would have been a more impactful arc than, instead its oh I bet his playing along to gain their trust, that silly Theron always wanting to be a spy. Welcome back buddy I knew you were up to something!

Edited May 4, 2018 by Costello

[Estelindis]

I have to say I'm really impressed with, and pleasantly surprised by how many people were set on killing him for this and wound up changing their minds as they played through the chapter. That really speaks volumes about how Bioware handled this from the story to the dialogue, to the animations and expressions.

 

I also loved the on-the-go conversations. It made me feel they were both really with me (rather than mimes tagging along) and it seemed to slowly resolve the animosity from Lana's end and get them both in a good place again with each other.

I agree - am happy that so many people had their minds changed by the writing. I think Theron's portrayal in this flashpoint was really strong. Turns out the whole thing was written by Samantha Wallschlaeger, the writer who also handled companion returns and is no longer with Bioware. She says she "poured her whole soul into it." And I think her level of care really shows.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Estelindis

[JennyFlynn]

I agree - am happy that so many people had their minds changed by the writing. I think Theron's portrayal in this flashpoint was really strong. Turns out the whole thing was written by Samantha Wallschlaeger, the writer who also handled companion returns and is no longer with Bioware. She says she "poured her whole soul into it." And I think her level of care really shows.

I absolutely agree and have said as much. While in the past I haven't always lauded Samantha's writing, and I do still feel she dropped the ball in certain other cases, this FP was incredibly well done. I suppose there are still some questions to be answered (I would have loved to know the detailed extent of Theron's actions on Iokath, what was and wasn't his own doing there), but overall the Nathema FP was satisfactory and I love the way some of it was written. Essentially all of Theron's dialogue, the romance continuation, the chatter between him and Lana along the way, the fact we were allowed to tell Lana off and even Arcann's appearance asking us to spare Theron and give him a chance as we did with him. Top job there, honestly.

[Hudlar]

I agree - am happy that so many people had their minds changed by the writing. I think Theron's portrayal in this flashpoint was really strong. Turns out the whole thing was written by Samantha Wallschlaeger, the writer who also handled companion returns and is no longer with Bioware. She says she "poured her whole soul into it." And I think her level of care really shows.

 

Absolutely--I thought she did a great job, especially with Theron and Lana.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Hudlar

[Hudlar]

Between his ambiguous 'death' and what he tells a romanced char back on Odessen when discussing the way forward, I do feel more assured that BW intends to keep him involved in future story as much as Lana. It just had a really promising vibe to it.

 

My guess, which could obviously be 100% wrong, is that we'll have a new set of questgivers/story drivers for 6.0, and Lana, Theron, and Koth will just be regular companions rather than being central to the story. But we'll all find out together!