Outrageous Respec Cost

[Nightsorrow]

Also, doesnt the respec cost reset every week or so? So the cost only becomes an issue if you switch constantly. Switching once a week for free I feel is okey, but not several times per day.

[QDMcGraw]

Do you think Bioware designs encounters around people that have chosen fun specs over people that have chosen optimal specs?

 

Why would BioWare go through the trouble of developing 3 skills trees per advanced class?

 

Now, you and I both know sticking to one tree is going to maximize the effects of that particular tree, but then there are others that want to play around with the trees and try some other things, going about halfway up on 2 of the three. Who says they are wrong?

 

It occurs to me if that's what someone wants to do, more power to them. I'm not going to exclude them from my groups because they are built 'wrong' or are not maximizing their class.

 

You being a tank (I am a tank, too) want to take every piece of damage reduction and resistance as we go through because we know the benefits of a tank being able to take a hit. I'm sure our groups will appreciate this because it is easier to heal and we will live longer, and in turn, the group will live longer. Are we doing it 'right'? Most would agree, but, what about the tank that wanted to do some splash damage increase, that does help with keeping agro, but he is sacrificing some damage reducers.

 

Most people would want to buy all in one tree, on this I understand and agree, but if someone doesn't, I personally don't care.

[Kaphik]

Also, doesnt the respec cost reset every week or so? So the cost only becomes an issue if you switch constantly. Switching once a week for free I feel is okey, but not several times per day.

 

Oh, if it resets each week, that's a whole different story then.

 

On topic, I think what a lot of people are missing is that "pick a role" doesn't help anything if you are trying to figure out which role to pick.

[Anzel]

I wonder if this decays over time? The cost I mean.

[Truga]

Am I really about to have to explain this again. It's like trying to explain physics to a two year old.

 

O.k. in a single player game the mechanics are set. You play test it, and say o.k. if a person chooses this or this or this it will be fine. In a multiplayer game it isn't like that. There are changes made.

 

You know what, let's take a game like Skyrim. Do you know how they accomplished so many skills being available and they aren't worried about things like patches? Because of two points.

 

1. skills are very clearly defined in what they do. The ones in ToR are not, many of them are ambiguous at best.

 

2. most of the skills are very easy to define. This one gives you 20% more damage with one handed weapons. Hey, I mainly use one handed weapons, works for me. In ToR it might read "this skill gives you 2% extra damage when facing a red creature, if you have a proc of dance up and the creature is above 30% health but below 35% health". That's an exaggeration but many of the skills are overly complicated in order to obfuscate the usefulness to the player.

 

Now if they were to clean up their skills, give each of them a very clear definition I would agree.

 

Say jedi, you would have three tiear 1

 

A lightsaber attacks deal 5/10/15% more damage

B force attacks (any attack using focus but not a melee attack and yes it would have this defined) deal 5/10/15% more damage

C You build an additional 1/2 focus with your focus building attacks

 

etc, see how each of those is clear. Now compare the wording on skills in the game. Very few are clear. This means players need to experiment. They need to be able to find out what actually works, what doesn't work, and what does something other than what it says.

 

I'm not trying to be a dick, but what I want is the ability to experiment because not everything is clear.

 

And none of this has changed in the last 20 years, yet in MMOs, experimenting usually meant rerolling you character. People used to not have a problem with it. Now one free and several very cheap respecs per week is considered too much effort.

 

And then, you wonder why people get bored and quit a game days after release.

 

Honestly, if the couple respecs per week you get for practically zero credits is not enough for you to experiment, then you obviously didn't do any research.

 

If you didn't do any research, you're probably not interested in maximum potential anyway, and as such, why do you care about respecs at all?

[PloGreen]

Apparently respec costs reset every week...so you can all stop complaining. It hasn't been proven yet but check this thread:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=893233&posted=1#post893233

 

I did this last night, it is in the game if ur all stop arguing about nothing you will see for yourselves. I love you all, merry Christmas and a happy new year.

[Xzulld]

Yes, let's remove arbitrary money sinks from the game, and leave only faucets. The economy totally won't notice anything!

Nice of you to put words in my mouth. I do not feel respect is a good money sink, that was all I said. Apparently if its true that the cost resets every week then that is fine by me, however from a gaming perspective if I where the designer I would want my players to purchase things they really want, spend money where it will effect player retention not make arbitrary money sinks.

 

Fuel costs . . . creates a bit of immersion, after all it supports a bit o realism.

Respec . . . . umm doesnt do this . . . umm doesnt offer anything to the player that is exciting, its just the same talents you had before, just now you have move them around.

Sending your companions on missions, again supports a bit of realism in the game . . not arbitrary.

 

Do you see the distinction? Can you follow the logic?

Arbitrary = without any purpose or reason. Its a cost just because they can kind of cost.

 

I am all about balancing a gaming economy, but make compelling reasons for each and every money sink is wise.

 

So the reset cost every week . . . whats the actual gameplay purpose?

 

One might say . . . well to encourage players to take time with each spec . . . well what about 2 years into the game? Huh, how does that jive with that intended purpose? Well it doesn't, becuase after a time you know what you want out of each spec and 7 days of high cost respects are not going to encourage you to do anything different, expect spend more money to achieve what you want from your characters talents of which you have shuffled countless times.

 

Changing roles in a game like this is essential, its something that once made practical is very user friendly and help promote better and MORE flashpoint usage, and placing financial hurdles in the way is really not a compelling game mechanic IMHO.

 

More possible tanks, and healers was a big part of why they provided so many classes with a talent tree for that . . . placing financial hurdles in the way only blunts that design decision, it does not support it.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Xzulld

[Wextell]

Respec cost decreases each day, going down to 0 in a week.

[Neuromann]

Respec cost decreases each day, going down to 0 in a week.

 

Does the timer start based on the last time you respec within a week?

 

Example)

 

Respec on Monday then respec again on Friday. Do you have to wait until the next Friday for the respec cost to reset?

[Maxlord]

Nice of you to put words in my mouth. I do not feel respect is a good money sink, that was all I said. Apparently if its true that the cost resets every week then that is fine by me, however from a gaming perspective if I where the designer I would want my players to purchase things they really want, spend money where it will effect player retention not make arbitrary money sinks.

 

Fuel costs . . . creates a bit of immersion, after all it supports a bit o realism.

Respec . . . . umm doesnt do this . . . umm doesnt offer anything to the player that is exciting, its just the same talents you had before, just now you have move them around.

Sending your companions on missions, again supports a bit of realism in the game . . not arbitrary.

 

Do you see the distinction? Can you follow the logic?

Arbitrary = without any purpose or reason. Its a cost just because they can kind of cost.

 

I am all about balancing a gaming economy, but make compelling reasons for each and every money sink is wise.

 

Of course, if you want to place a reason that makes it non-arbitrary, that is equally as easy:

 

Respeccing is going to a Shrink who has you hypnotized. He says one control word, and you recall your PVP skills. He says another, and you remember your PVE skills.

 

Shrinks aren't cheap, therefore high Respec costs.

 

[Truga]

Nice of you to put words in my mouth. I do not feel respect is a good money sink, that was all I said. Apparently if its true that the cost resets every week then that is fine by me, however from a gaming perspective if I where the designer I would want my players to purchase things they really want, spend money where it will effect player retention not make arbitrary money sinks.

 

Fuel costs . . . creates a bit of immersion, after all it supports a bit o realism.

Respec . . . . umm doesnt do this . . . umm doesnt offer anything to the player that is exciting, its just the same talents you had before, just now you have move them around.

Sending your companions on missions, again supports a bit of realism in the game . . not arbitrary.

 

Do you see the distinction? Can you follow the logic?

Arbitrary = without any purpose or reason. Its a cost just because they can kind of cost.

 

I am all about balancing a gaming economy, but make compelling reasons for each and every money sink is wise.

 

Ahh, but money sinks do have a very important purpose, and saying BW didn't do their research on this would be very ignorant. Economy is one of the most important parts of MMOs, and I'm pretty sure they did their homework on it.

 

As for immersion, economy health has little to do with it, and honestly, fuel cost isn't really a money sink. less than 200 credits to get anywhere from anywhere, when a single mission earns you 10k+ is a joke of a sink, sorry.

 

I imagine the largest money sinks in this game currently are med packs and respecs. Throw one of them out and suddenly cash starts piling out.

 

Edit: Also, what the person above me said

Edited December 29, 2011 by Truga

[Areka]

Bioware why dont you just copy and paste another one of Blizzard's game and allow for unlimited free respecs. Those people above me that complain about "sitck to one build" need to get out of that frame of mind the devs have forced onto you. Flexibility is a feature the gamers value and to deny them is bad product development. I am sorry if everyone here likes being boxed into one play style for the entire game but I rolled an operative to be able to heal and dps because it is what I feel like doing and helps in progression.

 

Yay for someone else wanting a classless system with access to all the skills!

I must suppose that TSW (yep, TSW and not SWTOR) is going to dethrone WoW at this rate!

[Buur]

Ahh, but money sinks do have a very important purpose, and saying BW didn't do their research on this would be very ignorant. Economy is one of the most important parts of MMOs, and I'm pretty sure they did their homework on it.

 

Ya, clearly they did their homework on game economy. Which explains why most of the crafting professions offer nothing that players want to buy and why the auction house is a complete dumpster fire.

[IreScath]

So many people just dont get it in this thread.

 

I want to raid, and I want to PvP. I do not feel this is unfair of me to want to do.

 

There is no spec that is sufficient at both at the same time.

 

Hence, ridiculous respec costs / lack of dual speccing is fubar.

[QDMcGraw]

So many people just dont get it in this thread.

 

I want to raid, and I want to PvP. I do not feel this is unfair of me to want to do.

 

There is no spec that is sufficient at both at the same time.

 

Hence, ridiculous respec costs / lack of dual speccing is fubar.

 

Why not PVP with a raid spec? Or Raid with a PVP spec?

[IreScath]

Why not PVP with a raid spec? Or Raid with a PVP spec?

 

Because I want to actually down difficult content, and I don't want to get roflstomped in PvP.

 

Dieing in raids, and losing in PvP isn't my idea of fun.

[Truga]

Ya, clearly they did their homework on game economy. Which explains why most of the crafting professions offer nothing that players want to buy and why the auction house is a complete dumpster fire.

 

Crafting and auction house has little to do with economy as a whole. A healthy economy only exists is the faucets are very slightly richer than sinks are deep. In any other situation, players will just trade with expensive items as currency.

[IreScath]

Crafting and auction house has little to do with economy as a whole. A healthy economy only exists is the faucets are very slightly richer than sinks are deep. In any other situation, players will just trade with expensive items as currency.

 

What is this I don't even

[Buur]

Crafting and auction house has little to do with economy as a whole. A healthy economy only exists is the faucets are very slightly richer than sinks are deep. In any other situation, players will just trade with expensive items as currency.

 

So the game economy has very little to do with player interaction. In an MMO. Got it.

[Truga]

So the game economy has very little to do with player interaction. In an MMO. Got it.

 

You completely missed my point. A healthy economy that involves actual credits as currency won't exist without enough sinks, because credits will be worthless. That's what I'm trying to say. Only after credits have value can you use the auction house with them.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Truga

[Xzulld]

So many people just dont get it in this thread.

 

I want to raid, and I want to PvP. I do not feel this is unfair of me to want to do.

 

There is no spec that is sufficient at both at the same time.

 

Hence, ridiculous respec costs / lack of dual speccing is fubar.

 

Exactly, and even if you just wanted to be DPS for one flashpoint to help a friend tank, and tank the next one when he goes offline its still a valid desire that has arbitrary hurdles placed in its way for no compelling reason at all.

 

To the people who are arguing from the money sink perspective you cannot win from that perspective, I have already said that is a good thing to have, its easy to move the money sink to a different place. Personally I do not respec at all becuase of this hurdle, I want to spend my money on meaningful things, this removes my character as a possible tank, and removes potential for more flashpoints to be done.\

 

IMHO not a good consequence of this particular money sink, move the sink to a different part of the game. Heck the person who mentioned how cheap fuel costs are . . . umm, make them less cheap to offset the other sink. Its not rocket surgery folks, I do realize sometimes its hard to understand basic ideas and common logic, but this really is a no brainer.

 

The idea of respec costs runs counter to the idea of making nearly every ADV class have a tanking, or healing tree.

You completely missed my point. A healthy economy that involves actual credits as currency won't exist without enough sinks, because credits will be worthless. That's what I'm trying to say. Only after credits have value can you use the auction house with them.

 

And you have failed to acknowledge that the money sink "problem" is not a problem at all when they amount of any given sink, and the movement from one necessary aspect of the game to another one is easy to achieve.

 

ie, change the amount or the placement of any given sink to offset the difference, not an issue all of a sudden and you remove the hurdle to players filling vital roles and increasing overall flashpoint and grouping QOL.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Xzulld

[Truga]

The idea of respec costs runs counter to the idea of making nearly every ADV class have a tanking, or healing tree.

 

Why? I have both a tank and a healer, and I'm honestly not seeing the problem here.

[SlickDevlan]

Exactly, and even if you just wanted to be DPS for one flashpoint to help a friend tank, and tank the next one when he goes offline its still a valid desire that has arbitrary hurdles placed in its way for no compelling reason at all.

 

To the people who are arguing from the money sink perspective you cannot win from that perspective, I have already said that is a good thing to have, its easy to move the money sink to a different place. Personally I do not respec at all becuase of this hurdle, I want to spend my money on meaningful things, this removes my character as a possible tank, and removes potential for more flashpoints to be done.\

 

IMHO not a good consequence of this particular money sink, move the sink to a different part of the game. Heck the person who mentioned how cheap fuel costs are . . . umm, make them less cheap to offset the other sink. Its not rocket surgery folks, I do realize sometimes its hard to understand basic ideas and common logic, but this really is a no brainer.

 

The idea of respec costs runs counter to the idea of making nearly every ADV class have a tanking, or healing tree.

 

No, the idea of respec costs is to make the choices within the AC actually mean something as opposed to dual spec or cheap respecs which basically removes the whole point of specs.

[Xzulld]

Why? I have both a tank and a healer, and I'm honestly not seeing the problem here.

 

Then your not trying to even see it from any other persons perspective. I also have a tank and a healer, however they are not the same level . . .

 

So you are really just being hard headed and not wanting to acknowledge how this effects the majority of players.

[QDMcGraw]

Because I want to actually down difficult content, and I don't want to get roflstomped in PvP.

 

Dieing in raids, and losing in PvP isn't my idea of fun.

 

Then create a second character, one for PVP and one for PVE. See, this is what gets my goat: PVPers seem to think they own the game and the company should bow down to their wishes. Too freaking bad. There are literally hundreds of PVP games out there for you to go teabag in, go pick one of them for PVPing. You can't have both, you get either or. I know choices are hard for some people, but, you have to make one in this game.

 

Choice 1: Make a second character for the second role

Choice 2: Be weak in one of the 2 things you want to do.

 

This is how life works: Choices and Decisions and learning that these choices will leave gaps in the other things you want. You don't get to have it all, not even in video games.