The New RISHI STRONGHOLD - Comments and Suggestions

[Tsillah]

You mean the area where you fight Karagga himself? I guess I could see some similarity, but the area in the operation is shaped more like a U, while the pvp area is pretty much a square. Could be similar though, I don't remember how the ops area looks that well. Usually when I'm there, I'm busy trying not to mess up my rotation or wondering what loot I'm getting.

 

There are two PvP areas I guess. The first one in the video I saw looked like the second boss fight in Ravagers and the second one indeed looks like the top area with M&B. At least similar.

[DuchessKristania]

While I was not expecting a resort I was hoping for the cantina in Raider's Cove to be a part of the SH. I actually love that building and think it would be a very unique and cozy home. As I've run around on the PTS the place is growing on me, but the disappointment is still there. I don't begrudge the PvP elements, and I don't begrudge that player group getting something fun. However, I did feel pretty slapped in the face when I saw how poorly the non PvP elements had been constructed. The place is huge, why wasn't there anything that could be made a home? Seriously, that cantina would have been the perfect solution. It fits the pirate theme while allowing for something people could have made very quaint a cozy.

 

For me it isn't even about the grime, though I detest the fly sound. Seriously, that's just an annoying sound in life and in games. I'd prefer to be able to remove or cover the junk, but I can deal with it. What I found most upsetting is just that there was so little thought put into the island buildings and the non-PvP areas. The hooks are poorly designed, there is nothing with multiple rooms that can serve as a home. There was just no thought or consideration put into the fact that a lot of people make strongholds into homes, not bases. They could have incorporated those elements without taking anything from the PvP theme. Rishi has been requested by so many for so long, it kind of did feel like a slap in the face to find it was not designed with that in mind.

Edited July 8, 2018 by DuchessKristania

[Lunafox]

I don't like the Rishi theme as they deployed it either (as I have previously commented here and in the PTS forum), nor does Lunafox (who I consider to be the forums premiere decorator of all things SH) ... but you don't see either of us melting-down in anger over it.

 

Well, thanks for the compliment, I appreciate it. Now I'm feeling like I have a duty to buy and decorate this thing to set a good decorating example lol. I took another long look around today, and have thoughts for the beach. The rest, I have ideas for as well, and I guess I will attempt to embrace the filth and grunge and make it as seedy a place as humanly possible.

[Estelindis]

It comes at the cost of decorators but if I'm honest, there are too many to properly decorate

I'd just like to point out that it comes at the cost of certain type of decorators.

Agreed. I am a decorator and I like what this stronghold gives us. I love the size and the grungy smuggler aesthetic. Broadly speaking I find the hook placement good too (especially compared to Manaan).

 

The opinions of decorators who like the SH and those who don't are just as valid. What matters, I think, are the reasons for liking and disliking it. We should make our feedback as detailed as possible, including 1) the reasons why we like or dislike the SH, and 2) maybe some suggestions for working around what some of us don't like while keeping the things other people do like. Then perhaps BW will make changes that please some people without displeasing others.

 

That being said, smaller changes are more likely to be implemented than big ones. So I think the task of those unhappy with some aspects of the SH is to identify the smallest changes that could yield the largest improvements (from their perspective). My overall feeling is that the general shape of the stronghold - textures and models (especially large models) - is unlikely to change. But, for those who don't like how messy it is, perhaps some of the trash could be turned into new trash decorations and hooks added where they used to be. And maybe the exhaustion zone could be eliminated (as in, we'd be allowed to move through the whole watery area) and the eastern shore made accessible (and decoratable via new hooks). It's already textured and modeled. It would give people more beach to work with. Finally, perhaps a toggle could be set to completely eliminate PvP zones if that's what the owner wants. My feeling is if those three things were done, those unhappy with the stronghold would feel much better.

Edited July 9, 2018 by Estelindis

[Asmodesu]

I'd be happier with it if I had a few changes:

- remove the trash piles. if people want garbage piles, let them place their own. We have plenty of options in decorations already for that.

- That area at the back past where a speeder can take you to decorate

- Hooks on the wooden platforms.

- Open up all the locked doors and have them small rooms to decorate, it's really frustrating seeing them but they're just for show, why have them if not to be of use (more a wish then something I think they'd ever do)

- Toggle to 100% remove all PvP restrictions so my companion doesn't vanish, I can ride my speeders everywhere, I don't get the red text on my screen.

- have better hook placement in the PvP areas (or some options for layout overall in those areas) as it looks really shoddy and too spaced out for many people to decorate a way they might like.

 

The only pro about this stronghold for me remains the interior of the ship, that looks absolutely amazing. In feel, tone, lighting and hook placements and layouts. imo. That amount of attention everywhere in an sh next time, please.

[Lunafox]

I'd be happier with it if I had a few changes:

- remove the trash piles. if people want garbage piles, let them place their own. We have plenty of options in decorations already for that.

- That area at the back past where a speeder can take you to decorate

- Hooks on the wooden platforms.

- Open up all the locked doors and have them small rooms to decorate, it's really frustrating seeing them but they're just for show, why have them if not to be of use (more a wish then something I think they'd ever do)

- Toggle to 100% remove all PvP restrictions so my companion doesn't vanish, I can ride my speeders everywhere, I don't get the red text on my screen.

- have better hook placement in the PvP areas (or some options for layout overall in those areas) as it looks really shoddy and too spaced out for many people to decorate a way they might like.

 

The only pro about this stronghold for me remains the interior of the ship, that looks absolutely amazing. In feel, tone, lighting and hook placements and layouts. imo. That amount of attention everywhere in an sh next time, please.

 

100% agree. I'd also like to see a ramp on the right side of the entry point deck, so that those that want to go straight to the beach, can descend that way and avoid the pvp/town area altogether. Right now, you can jump off the deck into the water, but it costs half your life, and it's a bit uncivilized lol.

[DuchessKristania]

100% agree. I'd also like to see a ramp on the right side of the entry point deck, so that those that want to go straight to the beach, can descend that way and avoid the pvp/town area altogether. Right now, you can jump off the deck into the water, but it costs half your life, and it's a bit uncivilized lol.

 

I fell off of it today, lol. I was moving around and playing with the hooks and then I was in the water and half dead, lol. I will say, I've been able to do some nice things on the beach and created a really quaint little bungalow in the hillside cliff room. I still wish I had that cantina though. I was really hoping to turn that into a home because it has a design and feel that different from the other stronghold interiors and all the wood could have created such a cozy environment.

[Asmodesu]

I wish I could get the ship as a separate stronghold, I love it. I am incredibly disappointed with so much they did on the planet-side bit, but "cleaning it up a little" (trash heaps) and adding more hooks and layout options for that first PvP area (and toggle for removing pvp entirely (OPTION- doesn't take anything away from pvp'ers at all) and I know I'll actually like the place.

But with those things in place, unchanged it is atrocious imo. My smuggler has far more class then this junk heap, and my bounty hunter married into nobility for crissake!

Not talking about the buildings there, just the junk piles everywhere, get a clean-up crew in! every single one of my characters would pay an extra 2mil to have the junk piles removed lol.

Edited July 9, 2018 by Asmodesu

[IoNonSoEVero]

My specific suggestions for improvements are much like everyone else's. Right now I am dead set against buying this, even the unlock, but:

 

1. Ability to disable/remove PvP aspects 100%. This wouldn't affect anyone who still wants those things. It would just mean those of us who want nothing to do with PvP would be able to avoid involuntarily walking into PvP zones or losing companions at the entrance and on the top deck of the ship.

 

2. For the love of God, please either remove the garbage piles and replace them with hooks and optional garbage decos, OR place hooks in all the garbage piles so they can be hidden.

 

3. Allow players to spawn directly into the ship. OR allow players to buy it separately. The one part of this travesty I like - actually love - is the ship. If I could buy the ship and go there without ever dealing with the slum area, I'd do that in a hot second. The ship actually seems as though they took some effort with it to make it pleasing to more than PvP players.

[MadDutchman]

I will add my distaste for the aesthetic here too.

 

So dark... so dingy... How could you have missed all the feedback for an actual nice looking stronghold?

 

The beach is small and utterly bland. Looks like there may have been an oil spill recently.

 

Switch to day time and this might be worth buying, at least in part, depending on how well it responds to the lighting change.

 

Alas, my hopes now rest on a possible future Alderaan SH for something really nice (besides Yavin)

[Eanelinea]

Thanks for the Rishi stronghold. I'm excited, I've wanted/begged for this for years.

 

I do hope you will make the property beachfront and a fair size, though maybe not so large as Yavin.

 

I hope you will consider placing lots of different sizes of hooks throughout, and a couple of things I've wanted in particular for years now, is to have small hooks on top of centerpiece hooks, just like you have for many of the large hooks. It's important to have those little hooks on top of the larger ones, so we can populate and add to the decos that fit those hooks.

 

Also, I would like it, if rugs were also allowed to be placed on walls, cause some, like the wampaa and red voss rugs would make stunning wall hangings. And there need to be more rug hooks per room, some in the center and some along the edges, so there is more versatility. Same with lighting.

 

Lots of palm trees and nice flora and vegetation and a nice beach are important. Please no more wasted areas like Yavin's front yard and cave. If you're going to make something as neat as a cave or grotto, please, put lots of hooks in it.

 

And hopefully there will be a package on sale in the market so we can get started. I have 7 strongholds now and an 8th at the moment, will be nothing but ugly basic furniture until I get more decorations. *is excited*

[Lunafox]

And hopefully there will be a package on sale in the market so we can get started. I have 7 strongholds now and an 8th at the moment, will be nothing but ugly basic furniture until I get more decorations. *is excited*

 

Sadly that quote was from before I got to see the stronghold. Suffice it to say, after seeing the slum, my excitement dimmed quite a bit (aww who am I kidding, my excitement blacked right out).

 

But hopefully if they actually listen to the suggestions it might be possible to make a go of it and I do hope that for your sake, my sake and other decorators there will be some spiffy new decos and packs of decos for sale and on sale.

 

I fell off of it today, lol. I was moving around and playing with the hooks and then I was in the water and half dead, lol. I will say, I've been able to do some nice things on the beach and created a really quaint little bungalow in the hillside cliff room. I still wish I had that cantina though. I was really hoping to turn that into a home because it has a design and feel that different from the other stronghold interiors and all the wood could have created such a cozy environment.

 

Ooops. I think a ramp would help matters quite a bit for those who wish to avoid the town/pvp area altogether. One little ramp toward the beach shouldn't be that hard to install, I would hope. I envy you your enthusiasm about the whole thing. As I'm sure you've guessed, I'm quite disappointed by it, but I suppose, I'll approach it just the same as all other things I don't like--as a challenge to get through it and make something special out of it.

[Zerileth]

But hopefully if they actually listen to the suggestions....

 

IMHO, what you see is what you're getting. This "PTS" was simply to throw the player a bone. I doubt there will be any design changes at this point. They're fixing "back-end" stuff, or code or minor bugs, but NOT layout. I hope I'm wrong, but we've seen this before.

 

I was like you for Manaan. I'll never get my hopes up for another stronghold.

[Lunafox]

IMHO, what you see is what you're getting. This "PTS" was simply to throw the player a bone. I doubt there will be any design changes at this point. They're fixing "back-end" stuff, or code or minor bugs, but NOT layout. I hope I'm wrong, but we've seen this before.

 

I was like you for Manaan. I'll never get my hopes up for another stronghold.

 

 

I'm sure you're right. I'm getting to the point where I'm just expecting them to disappoint me now. I'm sure the only worries they have is to make sure all the pvp stuff works. I'll be absolutely flabbergasted if they actually remove the trash piles and add more hooks.

[IoNonSoEVero]

See, the optimist in me was hoping they'd be more mindful about the strongholds after the criticism for Manaan and Umbara. When they said it would be on the PTS I was even more optimistic because I thought it meant they were truly listening to players. Lesson learned, I guess.

 

I doubt they will even do what a lot of people (both PvPers and non) seem to be requesting, which is a toggle off for the PvP aspects. For me that's a deal breaker even for the ship, because I'm not going to pay to unlock a level I can't actually use 100% of (PvP warning + dismissed companion = unusable area for me).

Edited July 9, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[Estelindis]

See, the optimist in me was hoping they'd be more mindful about the strongholds after the criticism for Manaan and Umbara. When they said it would be on the PTS I was even more optimistic because I thought it meant they were truly listening to players. Lesson learned, I guess.

I think the devs are most likely to implement widely suggested hook changes. Of course, I hope for more than that on your behalf. But if they don't do the specific things you want, I don't think it means no listening and no change at all.

[JennyFlynn]

I do think hook adjustment and any bug-fixing required in terms of PvP playability will be the main thing if anything is going to be fixed based on PTS feedback. I'd hope for others they will eliminate the piles of junk and buzzing flies as well and turn those into decorations you can buy and place yourself. A Stronghold shouldn't come pre-decorated, let players decide for themselves how slummy they want things.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I think the devs are most likely to implement widely suggested hook changes. Of course, I hope for more than that on your behalf. But if they don't do the specific things you want, I don't think it means no listening and no change at all.

 

Thank you. True, we all have wish lists of things that the devs are never going to do. Everyone playing the game wants something different and they can't possibly accommodate that. But it does seem as though there are things they seem to just shrug off even though a lot of people ask for it and it wouldn't impact other players at all (ie, abandoning the Iokath Op).

 

In the various threads it looks like most people actually are in accord about wanting a PvP toggle, but I'd be surprised if they actually did anything, since they want to push PvP with this SH.

Edited July 9, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[Xina_LA]

Creating a new stronghold that only appeals to a fraction of Stronghold fans wouldn't be an issue if the last two hadn't been so controversial.

 

Manaan was okay, once they fixed the bugs and hooks, but it wasn't awesome. The Umbaran train was really a disappointment for too many reasons to list here.

 

So of course the SH decorators and roleplayers were hoping to get a new SH that made up for their disappointment with the last two... but it didn't happen.

 

So to all the PvPers saying, "Hey it's finally our turn," try to keep this in mind --

* You already have a bunch of arenas for PvP. For those of us who don't PvP, strongholds are our thing. Now they're your thing, too.

* The Rishi stronghold, with a few design tweaks, could work for all of us, not just one group or the other.

* PvP bugs get fixed faster and better than stronghold bugs. Bring some of that mojo with you, or prepare to experience the frustration SH fans have been dealing with all along.

Edited July 9, 2018 by Xina_LA

[Estelindis]

Thank you. True, we all have wish lists of things that the devs are never going to do. Everyone playing the game wants something different and they can't possibly accommodate that. But it does seem as though there are things they seem to just shrug off even though a lot of people ask for it and it wouldn't impact other players at all (ie, abandoning the Iokath Op).

 

In the various threads it looks like most people actually are in accord about wanting a PvP toggle, but I'd be surprised if they actually did anything, since they want to push PvP with this SH.

To be honest, I think they just assumed that people could choose to keep their SHs private and only invite the people they want, or make it public but kick anyone causing trouble. I imagine that the phenomenon of people wanting a PvP toggle may not have been considered before it came up during the current feedback. I know it never would have occurred to me that PvP zones could be so upsetting. I hope that if the change you want is something they're reasonably able to do in a decent timeframe, they do it. What with not knowing what's required under the hood, we can't say if it's a simple change, but I hope it is.

[Mubrak]

I know it never would have occurred to me that PvP zones could be so upsetting.

 

Even if you keep your stronghold private, there is still the issue of the companions being unsummoned, and then called back when you leave the area even if they weren't out before. There's also that huge 3 line red message everytime you enter a pvp zone, especially the one near the entrance that you constantly cross to get from one part of the stronghold to the other. Dismounting also is an issue. It's simply annoying.

 

But well, a simple solution would be to disable PVP (and the mount/companion annoyances) when there is only one person in the stronghold.

Edited July 9, 2018 by Mubrak

[Estelindis]

Even if you keep your stronghold private, there is still the issue of the companions being unsummoned, and then called back when you leave the area even if they weren't out before. There's also that huge 3 line red message everytime you enter a pvp zone, especially the one near the entrance that you constantly cross to get from one part of the stronghold to the other. Dismounting also is an issue. It's simply annoying.

 

But well, a simple solution would be to disable PVP (and the mount/companion annoyances) when there is only one person in the stronghold.

That sounds like a good idea. I agree that it's annoying to constantly have the mount and companion issues pop up as you move around.

[DuchessKristania]

S

Ooops. I think a ramp would help matters quite a bit for those who wish to avoid the town/pvp area altogether. One little ramp toward the beach shouldn't be that hard to install, I would hope. I envy you your enthusiasm about the whole thing. As I'm sure you've guessed, I'm quite disappointed by it, but I suppose, I'll approach it just the same as all other things I don't like--as a challenge to get through it and make something special out of it.

 

To be honest, I'm pretty disappointed with a lot of it as well. I wasn't expecting a resort with white beaches (Rishi has black volcanic sand), I was hoping for something more aki to some of the nicer parts of Raider's Cove. I was hoping for waterfalls, and, maybe a little pier with hooks running alongside where we could park speeders. I was hoping for at least one buiding that could have been made into a charming home. I would have vanished from reality entirely if they'd given us the cantina to turn into a home. Seriously, wander around in that thing and imagine how adorable it would be all dressed up as a house. I feel like they spent a lot of development time on adding the PvP element and then went "Oh yeah, toss some crappy round rooms in there with a couple of hooks so we can say it has something for everyone."

 

That being said, I've found tricks for making it look nicer. I was able to use one of the new wall decos, along with some tech walls and pillasters, and a temple arch to create a second room in the hillside building. It cut back on the amount of furniture I could put in, but now I have a cozy one bedroom home. Still, it's a sad replacement for what I'd hoped to see. If you're on the PTS I'd love to take a look at your SH, and share mine with you.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I just floated an idea in the PTS forum, but wanted to run it by here, too. What about just adding a PvE and PvP instances to the stronghold? I see several advantages:

 

1. Those who don't want to deal with PvP at all could just have their SH open in the PvE instance. Visitors could see others' strongholds without worrying about being griefed or dealing with PvP; they would just need to look for the PvE-instanced SHs.

 

2. Those who DO want PvP but don't want visitors to be able to grief others or start matches could simply have their public listing (if they want one) in the PvE instance too. They could keep the PvP instance private and hand out keys to friends and guilds.

[IoNonSoEVero]

To be honest, I think they just assumed that people could choose to keep their SHs private and only invite the people they want, or make it public but kick anyone causing trouble. I imagine that the phenomenon of people wanting a PvP toggle may not have been considered before it came up during the current feedback. I know it never would have occurred to me that PvP zones could be so upsetting. I hope that if the change you want is something they're reasonably able to do in a decent timeframe, they do it. What with not knowing what's required under the hood, we can't say if it's a simple change, but I hope it is.

 

True enough. The perspective may not have even been on the radar for them.