Loadsamonie Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) I mean the fix to scaling for guardians is nice... a year and a half late, but ok. Other than that i dont think much will change for guardians or shadows. VGs just got hosed. I genuinely laughed at this comment, because as wisecracky as you were trying to be, it's absolutely true. Vanguards needed a buff, and instead they just got flipped and dipped. Bioware did them dirty. Edited April 5, 2018 by Loadsamonie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schoock Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Vanguards needed a buff Sure as hell they did. Almost 10k DPS on a tank spec is calling for a buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loadsamonie Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) Sure as hell they did. Almost 10k DPS on a tank spec is calling for a buff. Damage-wise they performed better than Juggs, but their survivability was the worst of the three because of a distinct lack of defensive cooldowns. Now their damage sucks and they don't survive any better. They got the french mistake from something hard and sandpapery. Edited April 5, 2018 by Loadsamonie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonbeams Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 As others have said, for PvP this kills tanks. Completely destroys them. I don't see this as an over-statement. Tanks need major boosts to mitigation for these changes to make any sense in PvP. Please tell us major mitigation buffs are coming our way. Just as I was trying to turn positive:(... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonbeams Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) So for the purpose of PvP you are going to destroy all tank classes in PvE?...well done... Bring back the seperate PvP gear and stop destroying the game even more by nerfing and nerfing and further nerfing. At this rate, difficult damage dependending hardmode bosses are going to be impossible. YES, you *********** need the tank dps-wise there as well!!!!!!!!!! What am I missing here? How does this help PvP? A threat boost as the offset for DPS nerf is for PvP? I don't get it (I admit I don't get a lot of things in the game, but tanking is the only thing I thought I kinda got). Edited April 5, 2018 by Joonbeams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadecounty Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 So everyone will still wear DPS gear on tanks they'll just do less damage. OK. It sort of kind of addresses the problem, but not exactly, and in a lazy way that I guess was expected. Of course tanks have worn DPS gear in PvP since 1.x era so this isn't really anything new. But now every single PvE encounter will have to be rebalanced to require 2-3k less DPS because that's what you'll lose from your tanks. Smarter change would have been to cap the benefit tanks can gain from DPS stats, something reasonable like 25% crit chance, 55% crit damage bonus, 5% alacrity, and do something to buff the defense stat in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 What am I missing here? How does this help PvP? The average person joining a PVP fight will be less likely to see DPS tanks. Is that not something to be happy about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loadsamonie Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 So everyone will still wear DPS gear on tanks they'll just do less damage. OK. It sort of kind of addresses the problem, but not exactly, and in a lazy way that I guess was expected. Of course tanks have worn DPS gear in PvP since 1.x era so this isn't really anything new. But now every single PvE encounter will have to be rebalanced to require 2-3k less DPS because that's what you'll lose from your tanks. Smarter change would have been to cap the benefit tanks can gain from DPS stats, something reasonable like 25% crit chance, 55% crit damage bonus, 5% alacrity, and do something to buff the defense stat in PvP. Make Defense work against Yellow damage. Make Shield work against crits. That's all they had to do. A very easy change. Capping damage stats on Tanks would've worked well too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botho Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Lazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonbeams Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Make Defense work against Yellow damage. Make Shield work against crits. That's all they had to do. A very easy change. Capping damage stats on Tanks would've worked well too. Every single one of these works, and mostly without significantly altering PvE. PvP "tanking" is really just health pool accumulation and guard which is why many tanks turned to DPS gear in the first place. If shield and defense worked worth a nickel, real tanks would run real tanking gear instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaeVictis Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Make Defense work against Yellow damage. Make Shield work against crits. That's all they had to do. A very easy change. It's already pretty much impossible for pugs to kill my Corruption Sorc and skank Jugg partner. Beefing up Tank stats to change that "pretty much impossible" to "literally impossible" would be a cool change I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Every single one of these works, and mostly without significantly altering PvE. PvP "tanking" is really just health pool accumulation and guard which is why many tanks turned to DPS gear in the first place. If shield and defense worked worth a nickel, real tanks would run real tanking gear instead. In a heartbeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loadsamonie Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Every single one of these works, and mostly without significantly altering PvE. PvP "tanking" is really just health pool accumulation and guard which is why many tanks turned to DPS gear in the first place. If shield and defense worked worth a nickel, real tanks would run real tanking gear instead. I still run real tanking gear anyway because I don't believe in Skanking. I'm playing a tank to eat damage and keep my teammates alive. With the exception of DPS relics (because they're better for survivability anyway thanks to the Endurance), I run full Tank gear on my Guardian, and plan to on my Jugg as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) I still run real tanking gear anyway because I don't believe in Skanking. I'm playing a tank to eat damage and keep my teammates alive. With the exception of DPS relics (because they're better for survivability anyway thanks to the Endurance), I run full Tank gear on my Guardian, and plan to on my Jugg as well. I used to be this way... then 5.0 came and shafted dps guardians in comparison to other classes. Getting wrecked 15 times a match ruined my idealism. Im going to do whats best for my team on my gusrdian. Edited April 5, 2018 by KendraP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schoock Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 I used to be this way... then 5.0 came and shafted dps guardians in comparison to other classes. Getting wrecked 15 times a match ruined my idealism. Im going to do whats best for my team on my gusrdian. They're so shafted right now every wz has like 2-3 of them at least. They're very, very shafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loadsamonie Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) I used to be this way... then 5.0 came and shafted dps guardians in comparison to other classes. Getting wrecked 15 times a match ruined my idealism. Im going to do whats best for my team on my gusrdian. Well I know I can serve my team better in GSF if I run Bursts, but I'm more comfortable with Rapids, so I use those instead. We still do well most of the time. Playing a pure Tank in PvP isn't optimal, but I don't think it's piss poor either. You can still do what you need to do, either Taunt/Guard Swap and keep your team alive, or if you're babysitting an objective, staying alive for as long as you possibly can, and buying your team enough time to reach you and secure it. Pure Tanks can still do both of these. But I won't conform to a role I wasn't meant to do. I refuse. I exist to sponge damage, harrass high-value targets and focus objectives, not to kill people. Edited April 5, 2018 by Loadsamonie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 They're so shafted right now every wz has like 2-3 of them at least. They're very, very shafted. Yeah, and i see 2-3 dps sorcs still too. Anyine claiming they're op right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurj Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 This isn't as big a nerf as I was expecting, but with the increase to DPS DCDs they are releasing at the same time, it does not bode well for the overall meta. At least they didn't make tank stats more effective in PVP - that would have been far worse IMO. But warzones filled with overall harder to kill DPS will further raise TTK, which will be compounded by the tank damage nerf. This is exactly the opposite of what I hoped they would do to the meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schoock Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Yeah, and i see 2-3 dps sorcs still too. Anyine claiming they're op right now? Sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loadsamonie Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 This isn't as big a nerf as I was expecting, but with the increase to DPS DCDs they are releasing at the same time, it does not bode well for the overall meta. At least they didn't make tank stats more effective in PVP - that would have been far worse IMO. But warzones filled with overall harder to kill DPS will further raise TTK, which will be compounded by the tank damage nerf. This is exactly the opposite of what I hoped they would do to the meta. Before I saw the changes they were making, I thought there was NOTHING they could have done that would have disappointed me. I lowered my expectations that much. But yes, ladies and gentlemen, Bioware CAN sink below the ground and get halfway to China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) Well I know I can serve my team better in GSF if I run Bursts, but I'm more comfortable with Rapids, so I use those instead. We still do well most of the time. Playing a pure Tank in PvP isn't optimal, but I don't think it's piss poor either. You can still do what you need to do, either Taunt/Guard Swap and keep your team alive, or if you're babysitting an objective, staying alive for as long as you possibly can, and buying your team enough time to reach you and secure it. Pure Tanks can still do both of these. But I won't conform to a role I wasn't meant to do. I refuse. I exist to sponge damage, harrass high-value targets and focus objectives, not to kill people. As i said in the guardian thread telling someone to make a mitigstion set until we knew these changes, tank gesr doesnt hurt you. It also doesnt help you. High endurance dps gear accomplishes the same thing and it still will. For background informstion, in case you somehow missed my other hundred posts on the subject. Ive been a guardian tank main since pre 2.0. I went dps with the guard given to them on 5.0 (pissy because it felt like another effort to make tanks obsolete) , discovered their solution to dps guarding was to make them squishy as **** so they couldn't do it effectively (and no i wasnt guarding as a dps), got focused hard in a hypergates (we won because their team was preoccupied farming my squishy *** guardian rather than the rest of the team (a mando, scoundrel, and sage healer - i died literally 15 times). I then had my buddy make me skank gear and havent gone back since Edited April 5, 2018 by KendraP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Sure. Sure sorc dps is op? If so just lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonbeams Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 I still run real tanking gear anyway because I don't believe in Skanking. I'm playing a tank to eat damage and keep my teammates alive. With the exception of DPS relics (because they're better for survivability anyway thanks to the Endurance), I run full Tank gear on my Guardian, and plan to on my Jugg as well. Yup me too. I don't disagree. What I'm saying is the issue isn't really skank/don't skank - I agree that's an issue. The problem is the "fix" which cuts our DPS and replaces it with useless "threat" rather than fixing the long-broken mitigation mechanics like defense and shields that don't shield. Stacking shield/absorption/defense rapidly yields diminishing returns making DPS builds more viable. So I don't oppose the nerf to DPS - and I agree "skanking" is a problem, but that's due to broken mitigation mechanics for PvP. And solid DPS was actually one of our mitigation mechanisms. My guardian and shadow could hold their own. I'm afraid now that we'll be back to being wet noodles again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loadsamonie Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Yup me too. I don't disagree. What I'm saying is the issue isn't really skank/don't skank - I agree that's an issue. The problem is the "fix" which cuts our DPS and replaces it with useless "threat" rather than fixing the long-broken mitigation mechanics like defense and shields that don't shield. Stacking shield/absorption/defense rapidly yields diminishing returns making DPS builds more viable. So I don't oppose the nerf to DPS - and I agree "skanking" is a problem, but that's due to broken mitigation mechanics for PvP. And solid DPS was actually one of our mitigation mechanisms. My guardian and shadow could hold their own. I'm afraid now that we'll be back to being wet noodles again... Well...at least the Jugg nerfs seem relatively tame compared to PT/Sin nerfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendraP Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Well...at least the Jugg nerfs seem relatively tame compared to PT/Sin nerfs. They are. We get a max 15% damage nerf in exchange for fixed focused defense. PTs got damage gimped and no buff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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