Conquest Feedback and Upcoming Changes

[ricardezm]

If you want to help smaller guilds, remove the once per legacy restriction on Ops. Ops have lockouts anyway, so we would only be running them once per character. Let our alts get points, too!

Actually the "once per day per legacy" restriction helps smaller guilds far more than it harms them.

 

The bigger the guild the bigger the pool of characters that can run through a lockout and more points can be farmed, the previous repeatable within legacy system for OPs was the cornerstone of Large and Megaguild Conquest. strategy.

[streunekatze]

What about Weeklies? Like [WEEKLY] Veteran Flashpoints and [WEEKLY] Galactic Conflicts?

[Lyshar]

What about Weeklies? Like [WEEKLY] Veteran Flashpoints and [WEEKLY] Galactic Conflicts?

 

In my opinion all weeklies should award points, it helps stimulate people to try more forms of content, it's the main reason for introducing conquests. At least it was presented as main reason, and it did help many aspects of the game. The new generation of Devs seems to have come after that so have no idea.

[PorsaLindahl]

 

I philosophically do not agree with your next part. I do not subscribe to the notion that just because someone doesn't have the time to do something in one sitting that things should be changed to accommodate them . If an operation is the creme de le creme for conquest points and someone doesn't have the time to do it then they don't get the points. Period. End of story. If they don't have the time to do X they don't get the rewards for doing X. If they are unwilling to do the things that they could do to make their gaming life easier then I'm sorry I won't just say sure no problem you can get the rewards. I do not like cow towing to people who want their cake and eat it too. If Conquest is an end game function (which some argue it is) then no they have to do the necessary things so that they can conquest with the best of em. I'm just so not ok with making it super duper easy to always cap 10 characters or more. If they can't play more than they can't cap more. I know it's not a popular opinion, and I'm sure I've written it wrong in places, but overall I just don't like the notion that just because someone logs in for 5 minutes a day means they should get the entire swtor world dropping at their feet without any effort whatsoever.

 

I've been accused of arrogance before. But that point of view takes the cake. You're saying that because I can only play 15-20 per week, I'm supposed to be happy that it'll take every single minute of my time to complete one character's PC or just suck it up? F that. Plain and simple.

[olagatonjedi]

Less repeatable activities mathematically benefit small guilds.

 

In basic terms

5 players x 10 activities = 50 potential points

20 players x 10 activities = 200 potential points

Difference of 150

 

5 players x 50 activities = 250 points

20 players x 50 activities = 1000 points

Difference of 750

 

Small guilds should be praising the fact there are less opportunities for big guilds to exponentially increase their point totals, and should praise the fact its harder for them to complete in the first place. Without needing to go into more areas of improvement, you can see small guilds benefited right out of the gate. Less activities required also frees up more time to play alts (non-conquest centric), which is another complaint that has been made. This was solved too.

 

That said, small is also relative, so a guild of 250 is still small compared to a 1000 member guild. Anyone in a guild less than 100 shouldnt even be trying to make complaints about the playing field of guild invasions and winning planets, which is why they implemented methods to progress on a personal level more rewarding.

Edited March 23, 2018 by olagatonjedi

[Shwarzchild]

I've been accused of arrogance before. But that point of view takes the cake. You're saying that because I can only play 15-20 per week, I'm supposed to be happy that it'll take every single minute of my time to complete one character's PC or just suck it up? F that. Plain and simple.

 

what I'm saying is that you shouldn't get the points from an activity if you can't do that activity. Should I get a nightmare raiding title just because I want it? I don't think so. I'd guess you'd agree with me there.

 

Should you be able to cap 20 characters in conquest in 1 day? I say no. I think if a person is playing only here and there that capping 1-2 characters for conquest is reasonable. Capping every available character slot a player has on aa server? I think that's an unreasonable demand. I also think that if you want to conquest then you do the activities related to conquest. If you want to do something else then feel free to do whatever it is you want to do. But, if you don't want to conquest and still want your conquest rewards I think that's also unreasonable.

 

You play more than I do I play about 10-15 hours a week at most. 6 hours of that is predetermined for gods of the machines progression. So I'm looking at 9 hours of my playtime that I can dedicate to anything I want. If I choose to dedicate that 9 hours to conquest then I think it's reasonable for me to expect to cap 2 characters. However, if I want to do something totally different unrelated to conquest I can. But, I don't expect to be given conquest because of it.

[ThomasStarWars]

what I'm saying is that you shouldn't get the points from an activity if you can't do that activity. Should I get a nightmare raiding title just because I want it? I don't think so. I'd guess you'd agree with me there.

 

Should you be able to cap 20 characters in conquest in 1 day? I say no. I think if a person is playing only here and there that capping 1-2 characters for conquest is reasonable. Capping every available character slot a player has on aa server? I think that's an unreasonable demand. I also think that if you want to conquest then you do the activities related to conquest. If you want to do something else then feel free to do whatever it is you want to do. But, if you don't want to conquest and still want your conquest rewards I think that's also unreasonable.

 

You play more than I do I play about 10-15 hours a week at most. 6 hours of that is predetermined for gods of the machines progression. So I'm looking at 9 hours of my playtime that I can dedicate to anything I want. If I choose to dedicate that 9 hours to conquest then I think it's reasonable for me to expect to cap 2 characters. However, if I want to do something totally different unrelated to conquest I can. But, I don't expect to be given conquest because of it.

 

Well, we're getting pvp participation and flashpoints back. and hopefully not legacy based.

[Lyshar]

Less repeatable activities mathematically benefit small guilds.

 

In basic terms

5 players x 10 activities = 50 potential points

20 players x 10 activities = 200 potential points

Difference of 150

 

5 players x 50 activities = 250 points

20 players x 50 activities = 1000 points

Difference of 750

 

Small guilds should be praising the fact there are less opportunities for big guilds to exponentially increase their point totals, and should praise the fact its harder for them to complete in the first place. Without needing to go into more areas of improvement, you can see small guilds benefited right out of the gate. That said, small is also relative, so a guild of 250 is still small compared to a 1000 member guild. Anyone in a guild less than 100 shouldnt even be trying to make complaints about the playing field of guild invasions and winning planets, which is why they implemented methods to progress on a personal level more rewarding.

 

That is inaccurate, fewer repeatable activities means people run out of things to do, smaller guilds hit the limit of their potential while larger guilds may end saturated at the top with no competition in sight. With the new system the first goal isn't even to hit the top ten, it's to hit the guild goal. Without repeatable options that actually award points smaller guilds can't reach it.

 

I got saturated at personal score because there was nothing to do worth anything, and only because of the bug. Other guildies gave up long before me.

[Shwarzchild]

Well, we're getting pvp participation and flashpoints back. and hopefully not legacy based.

 

All things I think are correctly coming back. I've never said that changes shouldn't be made.

[Kyrra_T]

Actually the "once per day per legacy" restriction helps smaller guilds far more than it harms them.

 

The bigger the guild the bigger the pool of characters that can run through a lockout and more points can be farmed, the previous repeatable within legacy system for OPs was the cornerstone of Large and Megaguild Conquest. strategy.

 

You are clearly NOT in a small guild if you think people in small guilds have one alt. Small guilds have many, many alts in their pool. Less than big guilds but many alts. That small guild can now put up points for 8 characters rather than 40. Do Math.

 

The large guild STILL has that larger pool of individual characters, they will STILL make more points than the guild with 8 characters. Unless all of them quit the game from this utter and complete bull, which serves no one, AND is buggy as hell.

 

Punitive changes are punitive. They do not inherently serve the base you 'think' they will help. Look at the overall impact. Less points to everyone means the ones with more people will STILL put up more points than the ones with less.

 

It serves no-one to restrict the ability to play all the created characters. There is no compelling content to 'do' so we create new alts. When they are created we want to use them. That's universal to anyone playing the game and is not restricted to the size of the guild you belong to.

Edited March 23, 2018 by Kyrra_T

[PorsaLindahl]

what I'm saying is that you shouldn't get the points from an activity if you can't do that activity. Should I get a nightmare raiding title just because I want it? I don't think so. I'd guess you'd agree with me there.

 

Should you be able to cap 20 characters in conquest in 1 day? I say no. I think if a person is playing only here and there that capping 1-2 characters for conquest is reasonable. Capping every available character slot a player has on aa server? I think that's an unreasonable demand. I also think that if you want to conquest then you do the activities related to conquest. If you want to do something else then feel free to do whatever it is you want to do. But, if you don't want to conquest and still want your conquest rewards I think that's also unreasonable.

 

You play more than I do I play about 10-15 hours a week at most. 6 hours of that is predetermined for gods of the machines progression. So I'm looking at 9 hours of my playtime that I can dedicate to anything I want. If I choose to dedicate that 9 hours to conquest then I think it's reasonable for me to expect to cap 2 characters. However, if I want to do something totally different unrelated to conquest I can. But, I don't expect to be given conquest because of it.

 

I have my nightmare titles so you're barking up the wrong tree with that analogy. And you're over-exaggerating. I don't expect to get 20 characters done in one day. I do expect to get MORE THAN ONE done in 3-4 days without spending every single frigging second in game grinding away for a piddly amount of points.

 

I expect to be able to run DAILY/WEEKLY FP's, PvP, maybe some GSF if I et the urge to, along with heroics to be able to meet my personal goals on HOWEVER MANY characters I'm able to without some idiotic lock out preventing alts from participating.

 

As far as feeling free to do what I want to do, I've already done that, unless some changes are made next week. So unless it's announced today that there is going to be maintenance on Tuesday, you can click the blue link in my sig to see what was free to do.

Edited March 23, 2018 by PorsaLindahl

[Shwarzchild]

I have my nightmare titles so you're barking up the wrong tree with that analogy. And you're over-exaggerating. I don't expect to get 20 characters done in one day. I do expect to get MORE THAN ONE done in 3-4 days without spending every single frigging second in game grinding away for a piddly amount of points.

 

I expect to be able to run DAILY/WEEKLY FP's, PvP, maybe some GSF if I et the urge to, along with heroics to be able to meet my personal goals on HOWEVER MANY characters I'm able to without some idiotic lock out preventing alts from participating.

 

As far as feeling free to do what I want to do, I've already done that, unless some changes are made next week. So unless it's announced today that there is going to be maintenance on Tuesday, you can click the blue link in my sig to see what was free to do.

 

You believe it should be on however many characters you want. I do not share that same belief. You believe the lock out functions shouldn't exist. Great! Difference of opinions is fine! This is why I lead off that particular discussion point with a statement saying that my philosophy was different. I do not share your beliefs. I do not think it's a good thing for players to be blasting however many characters they want through conquest. No need to get snippy about it. I have one philosophy. You have another. That analogy was just an illustration of my beliefs in a short succinct thing. I'm not asking you to follow me up a tree, howl at the moon, or jump off a cliff. I'll bark around a fire pit with some whiskey though. That sounds way more my style.

[PorsaLindahl]

You believe it should be on however many characters you want. I do not share that same belief. You believe the lock out functions shouldn't exist. Great! Difference of opinions is fine! This is why I lead off that particular discussion point with a statement saying that my philosophy was different. I do not share your beliefs. I do not think it's a good thing for players to be blasting however many characters they want through conquest. No need to get snippy about it. I have one philosophy. You have another. That analogy was just an illustration of my beliefs in a short succinct thing. I'm not asking you to follow me up a tree, howl at the moon, or jump off a cliff. I'll bark around a fire pit with some whiskey though. That sounds way more my style.

 

Did I say "however many characters I want"? Learn to read. I said "however many I am able to." There's a big difference. I have 37 characters. If I have the time to play 5 characters, or even 10 characters, then I should be able to get their PC goal. The same applies to anyone else.

[dynosian]

Less repeatable activities mathematically benefit small guilds.

 

Small guilds should be praising the fact there are less opportunities for big guilds to exponentially increase their point totals, and should praise the fact its harder for them to complete in the first place. Without needing to go into more areas of improvement, you can see small guilds benefited right out of the gate. Less activities required also frees up more time to play alts (non-conquest centric), which is another complaint that has been made. This was solved too.

 

That said, small is also relative, so a guild of 250 is still small compared to a 1000 member guild. Anyone in a guild less than 100 shouldnt even be trying to make complaints about the playing field of guild invasions and winning planets, which is why they implemented methods to progress on a personal level more rewarding.

 

That statement is very far from the truth. In limiting the ability for large guilds to gain points, they also limited small guilds' abilities to gain points. These are across the board nerfs. Our guild has roughly 30 accounts active and around, of that number only a quarter actively do any sort of content that would put any conquest numbers on the board. However, we were almost always on the top 10, and even claimed a planet once. That was before the mergers and changes. We're proof that a small, and casual guild can compete if given the opportunity to do so. This patch has effectively neutered our ability, and drive be competitive.

[DisposableHeero]

Less repeatable activities mathematically benefit small guilds.

 

In basic terms

5 players x 10 activities = 50 potential points

20 players x 10 activities = 200 potential points

Difference of 150

 

5 players x 50 activities = 250 points

20 players x 50 activities = 1000 points

Difference of 750

 

Small guilds should be praising the fact there are less opportunities for big guilds to exponentially increase their point totals, and should praise the fact its harder for them to complete in the first place.

This is backwards. More non-repeatable activities, and a bigger falloff of point generating power there is after the one time and dailies are out fo the way, the harder it is for small guilds to compete. If you compare a guild with 5 players and a guild with 20 players, no matter what the activities are, the 5 player guild must get 4 times the conquest points from each of its players to beat the 20 player guild's score. If all objectives were repeatable and yielded 1000 points an hour, and the 20 player guild's players spent 15 hours and hit conquest on 1 toon, than each player in the 5 player guild would need to do 60 hours of conquest to catch them. If there are 12,000 points to be had at 1000 points an hour, then the repeatable activities after that are 500 points an hour, the large guild needs 18 hours per player to get rewards, the small guild needs 108 hours per player. The more limited the efficient point granting activities are in how often you can do them, the harder it becomes for any guild to make up a player deficit through hard work. Eventually you run out of hours to catch up.

 

So the more restrictive, and lower the point values for activities are, and the faster you exhaust really efficient conquest sources, the more it punishes the lower population guilds.

 

Edit:

if all of the per legacy limits were removed, and one times were one time per character, alts would be a stream wherein you can overcome a manpower deficit by giving your guild access to more efficient point gains and so would potentially benefit small guilds more. I'm less concerned about competition though, and much more concerned with getting a realistic conquest week where a guild of 3-4 players can hit the small planet threshold without killing themselves.

Edited March 23, 2018 by DisposableHeero
additional thoughts

[Shwarzchild]

Did I say "however many characters I want"? Learn to read. I said "however many I am able to." There's a big difference. I have 37 characters. If I have the time to play 5 characters, or even 10 characters, then I should be able to get their PC goal. The same applies to anyone else.

 

You capitalized HOWEVER MANY. Which means it's the most important part of your statement. You don't believe there should be a limit. If a player has 7 billion characters they should be able to reach personal conquest on each and every single one of them if they can do it. I don't agree with that. It's just what I believe regarding conquest at that fundamental of a level.

[Ibokagain]

I somewhat think this is being blown out of proportion.

 

This isn't as alt unfriendly as it's being made to seem. There are one time one offs like prerviously. Xeno was always a 1 off. TFB probably wasn't in before, but in general specific flashpoints were one offs. So not really a huge change there.

 

You can now repeat the rampage of kill 250 dudes on Ilum (if you can stomach it I can't but thats just me) for me at 743

You can craft an invasion force every day. On whatever character you deem needs it. My point total for it is 1,688.

You can farm the bonus boss of Battle of Ilum every day for 1,688.

You can just complete B of I as many times as you want for 293

You can do the group finder operation daily for 1,688.

Warzone win: 743

You can do one daily Gree Mission every day for 1688

You can do the heroic every day for 743

You can kill 25 guards or base turrets forr 1,125

 

You can get like 9k (or more I don't have full stronghold bonus) conquest points per day on whatever character you may want to spend it on. While you may not be able to do 10 characters a week or more. Capping 1 is easy.. More than 2 might be a stretch which would be where the issue is.

 

If their goal, which it was stated it was, was to slow down the points from conquest because it was unsustainably high then this is a good move. I will agree that the character cap goal per legacy should be set around 3-4 which requires a few tweaks. But a full rollback? Not necessary.

 

Do the rewards need to change? Absolutely. I've been in favor of that forever. The rewards for conquest are awful, and have always been awful outside of titles.

 

That's your opinion and regarding mine I refuse to do any participation going forward next week in conquest. My playing time also will drastically decrease as I'm playing other games that are actually fun to play, and my sub is no more.

[Exly]

I'd bet money if they had put this on the PTR and let gamers try it out, they would have know it was garbage before it was implemented.

 

They didn't even need to do that. All that they needed to do was tell us the truth in the first place. Instead they told us that they were making changes in order to make it easier for small guilds to achieve their conquest goals, and we all know that it is now significantly harder for anyone, guilded or not the even achieve their personal goal.

 

This was a mean spirited nerf meant to make the game more of a grind, and was not done to increase our enjoyment of playing it. They want us to work for paltry rewards, and sink more time, effort and credits to do it.

 

Well, I don't want to come to this game or any game to do work. I want to play and enjoy myself, and this new approach of theirs is nothing but a load of rubbish, and does nothing but reduce the number of reasons for me to continue paying for and playing this game.

[Ibokagain]

I work 12 hours a day. Monday through Saturday. Such is the blessing and the curse of restaurant ownership.

 

Let's break it down. One Gree Event mission takes what...5-10 minutes. We'll say 10.

If we include Xeno analyst - 20 minutes for that.

One Illum Heroic - 5 minutes.

Battle of Illum Master Mode FP - 30 minutes

One Invasion force - just log in hit a button and craft it.

 

Thats 1,688 + 293 + 743 + 6750 + 1,688 + 4500 = That's 13,974 in an hour. You still have one hour left to play for the day.

 

edit: You won't be able to do 10-20-30 characters like days of old. That was identified as an issue and I tend to agree with that assessment. My personal opinion is the goal post should be 4-5 characters for conquest caps per legacy. Your personal opinion can vary. Just try not to insult people with the whole "play x amount of time" argument.

 

Xeno anaylsyt counts for 1 toon and it's done you can't redo it another day., ilum herioc is one time deal as well and for me it's a one time legacy issue as is doing a pvp match and all the other so called Daily missions that are clearly for my account daily legacy.

 

The point of conquest isn't to work, it was a side objective that kept players that pay the salaries of dev teams interested in playing this game due to NO real content. Clearly if you didn't participate in it or really care then the only way it will affect you is when you want to do group activities b/c for those of us that did like conquest aren't and will not do them anymore. And when and if those said folks don't come back to the game, how long till this game is down to 1 server b/c that's def next.

[ShadowGovernator]

Hmm.. I didn't play conquest at all today - I wonder why...?

[olagatonjedi]

That is inaccurate, fewer repeatable activities means people run out of things to do, smaller guilds hit the limit of their potential while larger guilds may end saturated at the top with no competition in sight. With the new system the first goal isn't even to hit the top ten, it's to hit the guild goal. Without repeatable options that actually award points smaller guilds can't reach it.

 

I got saturated at personal score because there was nothing to do worth anything, and only because of the bug. Other guildies gave up long before me.

There are plenty of activities for appeopriately sized "small" guilds to reach the minimum. As long as that is factual, then my math holds true. If your guild cant meet the minimum even with all members completing all activities, then you need to re-evaluated your expectations of the system. It can't meet the needs of every guild from 1 member to 1000 equally, so a balance was made in between. If ur guild is too small to meet the guild conquest, them you can decide what is more important to you/your guild - staying small and working on meeting personal conquest, or adding enough members to meet guild conquest requirements like all other guilds have to. The standards you complain of are constant across all guilds, no matter the size, so your real complaint is that other guilds are bigger, by choice.

 

Also, fewer activities means you run out of things to do, but also means bigger guilds have more people run out of things to allow them a bigger lead

Edited March 23, 2018 by olagatonjedi

[Kurj]

Hmm.. I didn't play conquest at all today - I wonder why...?

 

I tried to motivate myself but just couldn’t do it. The reward/effort makes no sense, and I have no desire to kill another 250 mobs to get less than a thousand points. As the Dude would say, It’s a bummer, man.

[Shwarzchild]

Xeno anaylsyt counts for 1 toon and it's done you can't redo it another day., ilum herioc is one time deal as well and for me it's a one time legacy issue as is doing a pvp match and all the other so called Daily missions that are clearly for my account daily legacy.

 

The point of conquest isn't to work, it was a side objective that kept players that pay the salaries of dev teams interested in playing this game due to NO real content. Clearly if you didn't participate in it or really care then the only way it will affect you is when you want to do group activities b/c for those of us that did like conquest aren't and will not do them anymore. And when and if those said folks don't come back to the game, how long till this game is down to 1 server b/c that's def next.

 

I did try to say "If we include" for Xeno to try to show that I get that it's a one off. I included it there for the debate on time we had earlier. Either way, one off things like Xeno have always been around.From what I can tell by the icon next to the heroic mission is that it can be done daily. Whether that's a bug or intentional I don't know.

 

I do care about conquest. Outside of raiding it's one of the things I do every week. I do want to get my Galaxy Conqueror title. However, I don't think the system we had previously was good even if I profited from it while it was here. I don't think these change are that bad considering the information in the response from Eric. If you meant this in a more general sense my bad I misunderstood your sentiment.

[DisposableHeero]

You can now repeat the rampage of kill 250 dudes on Ilum (if you can stomach it I can't but thats just me) for me at 743

You could do this once for 7500 points if you had a full stronghold bonus and your guild was invading Ilum. If you have a full stronghold bonus now and you do this every day, you get 5775 points.

 

You can craft an invasion force every day. On whatever character you deem needs it. My point total for it is 1,688.

Crafting an invasion force before was worth 5000 points max, vs 1825 points. Invasion force's component parts were also substantially less expensive. This one's maximum potential yield has increased even though its efficiency in terms of time and materials has been floored.

 

You can farm the bonus boss of Battle of Ilum every day for 1,688.

If you were invading Ilum you could run any groupfinder flashpoint for 5000 points a pop, as many times as you want on as many toons as you want.

 

You can just complete B of I as many times as you want for 293

Again, any GF flashpoint, 5000 points a pop.

 

You can do the group finder operation daily for 1,688.

Group Finder Op pre-5.8, 5000 points a pop at max stronghold bonus (10,000 if invading hoth), infinitely repeatable.

 

Warzone win: 743

Warzone win 1250 (2500 with invasion), Warzone Participation 625 (1250 with invasion)

 

You can do one daily Gree Mission every day for 1688

This is actually new and decent and should be kept.

 

You can do the heroic every day for 743

You could do both heroics, every day, on every character, for 1250 points EACH, 3750 if invading Ilum.

 

You can kill 25 guards or base turrets forr 1,125

You could do this before for 2500 points, 7500 if Invading Ilum.

 

You can get like 9k (or more I don't have full stronghold bonus) conquest points per day on whatever character you may want to spend it on. While you may not be able to do 10 characters a week or more. Capping 1 is easy.. More than 2 might be a stretch which would be where the issue is.

Capping in the old system was much much less time consuming. It wasn't easier or harder because none of the activities have changes, it is now pointlessly more grind than it was before. There is no competitive reason for lowering these yields, because they are the same for everyone. there is no reason to lower them while keeping the target the same other than as a money grab. They want people to play longer for the same reward, so they subscribe longer, and their buy more cartel coins out of impatience.

[ShadowGovernator]

I tried to motivate myself but just couldn’t do it. The reward/effort makes no sense, and I have no desire to kill another 250 mobs to get less than a thousand points. As the Dude would say, It’s a bummer, man.

 

His Dudeness would be right!