Conquest Feedback and Upcoming Changes

[Exly]

Absolutely it is. They seemingly wanted to kill Conquests, this achieved it...well done Keith.

 

It's very sad...it's watching the death of the game. We weren't in a good place before this change, it's even worse now...

 

Oh well...the game was fun while it lasted. I hope everyone in Austin enjoys their promotion to Anthem.

 

And when Anthem flops what's next for them?

 

I mean the same people are in charge of the studio that is making that game, and that let this game get away with so many bad decisions, so why would anyone expect Anthem to be any better?

Edited April 13, 2018 by Exly

[olagatonjedi]

Here's my list - the old system was better because:

 

• It encouraged alt play

• It was a side activity that was rewarding

• It could be a full time activity and be rewarding

• It was a guild activity

• It was a group activity

• It was a solo activity

• It was an easy way for new players to make some $ (farming mats)

• It encouraged playing just a tiny bit longer to hit goals (one more FP, WZ, GSF, alt)

• It encouraged grouping up to hit goals

• It encouraged trying PvP, GSF, FPs, Ops for easy rewards

• It was a great "down time" activity

• It was a phenomenal credit sink

• It was a phenomenal material sink

• It was a phenomenal Jawa Junk sink

• It was a part of the game that rewarded HUGE guilds, tiny guilds, and medium guilds, even solo players

• It encouraged players to do one more PvP match to finish a daily/weekly

• It encouraged one more GF FP to finish a daily/weekly

• It encouraged one more GSF match to finish a daily/weekly

• It was a hardcore player activity

• It was a casual player activity

• It encouraged PuG play

• It encouraged Heroics

• It encouraged Daily missions

• It encouraged very diverse gameplay and rewarded players for trying things

 

The list goes on and on and on...it was better because it simply drove activity!!! LOTS of activity!!! Everything from resource gathering, to GTN sales...sometimes it was tiny things, other times it was all hands on deck type of things. It was something a guild could plan for, or a solo player could participate in. It was casual friendly, but also hardcore friendly because you could log on alts and keep going for it. It was something you could focus a lot on, or a tiny bit on.

 

It was healthy for the game...this new system is not. This new system hurts the game. The new system doesn't foster trying anything, it requires full time participation. The new system penalizes alts. The new system doesn't encourage me to swap roles for the needed role, because I'm punished for doing the many one time activities on that alt. What was once casual and alt friendly, has now become alt prohibitive and casual impossible.

Nearly all of those apply to 5.8 conquest, except we also have more guilds able to win their weekly conquest.

[varactylking]

I don't mind these changes. I'm not a fan, but I can learn to adapt. The one thing I'd really like to see returned are the weekly quests. Let me complete my weekly FPs and PVP for each character for those nice 4k conquest points. That would eliminate a lot of my issues, personally. Just my $0.02.

[olagatonjedi]

People still don't see a bigger picture.

 

The 5.8 conquest changes can undoubtedly help isolate problems with flashpoints, ops, and other activities in the game that aren't truly very good.

 

Pre-5.8 conquest overencouraged participation in those same subpar areas of the game, but because of the amount of multiple alt runs through them, the numbers were skewed to inaccurate proportions.

 

Conquest 5.8 doesn't limit anyone from doing anything in the game they want to do. What it does is eliminate incentive to do things more than once. That said, it gives BW a much more accurate reading on what content is actually worth participating in, and what isn't. Hopefully that leads to improvements going forward.

 

Hypothetical stat example (not to scale):

Pre 5.8

Blood hunt gives 5000points per alt. People run it dozens of times.

BW looks at it and says "tuned perfectly"

 

Post 5.8

Blood hunt gives 1500 points per run. People run it once for conquest and never run it again after that.

Data can be correlated that either the instance is not worth the effort, or something needs to be tuned differently.

[AscendingSky]

People still don't see a bigger picture.

 

The 5.8 conquest changes can undoubtedly help isolate problems with flashpoints, ops, and other activities in the game that aren't truly very good.

 

Pre-5.8 conquest overencouraged participation in those same subpar areas of the game, but because of the amount of multiple alt runs through them, the numbers were skewed to inaccurate proportions.

 

Conquest 5.8 doesn't limit anyone from doing anything in the game they want to do. What it does is eliminate incentive to do things more than once. That said, it gives BW a much more accurate reading on what content is actually worth participating in, and what isn't. Hopefully that leads to improvements going forward.

 

Hypothetical stat example (not to scale):

Pre 5.8

Blood hunt gives 5000points per alt. People run it dozens of times.

BW looks at it and says "tuned perfectly"

 

Post 5.8

Blood hunt gives 1500 points per run. People run it once for conquest and never run it again after that.

Data can be correlated that either the instance is not worth the effort, or something needs to be tuned differently.

 

The purpose of Conquest is not, and has never been, some way to test the 'tuning' of different parts of the game. That's something you completely made up that makes no logical sense. You are seriously grasping at straws here trying to defend EA (as you always do).

[PorsaLindahl]

The purpose of Conquest is not, and has never been, some way to test the 'tuning' of different parts of the game. That's something you completely made up that makes no logical sense. You are seriously grasping at straws here trying to defend EA (as you always do).

 

It's always some nonsense.

[ShadowGovernator]

And when Anthem flops what's next for them?

 

I mean the same people are in charge of the studio that is making that game, and that let this game get away with so many bad decisions, so why would anyone expect Anthem to be any better?

 

Exactly, I am not buying Anthem or any other EAWare game unless they fix this one NOW

It's not looking good at the moment - and it will not feel like a promotion when swtor and Anthem tanks!

[Lhancelot]

Hey everyone,

 

I think for all of us, this Roadmap process we started last year could stand a bit of improvement. Instead of providing information every 90 days or so, it’s taking a lot longer to get you any information about what we’re planning, and honestly, that needs to change. I’m still reticent about communicating details beyond 90 days, but I do want you to be comfortable with our direction and where we are headed.

With this in-mind, we’ve decided to use the Forums as the means to get you the information about the next couple months versus waiting for a Roadmap. This will allow us to be more responsive to your questions, address your concerns, and maintain a better dialog going forward. It also helps us (especially me) to stay available and not make it seem like we’ve disappeared into the ether.

 

We look forward to expanding more on what you can expect in 5.8, 5.9, and beyond! As often as we can, we will be around in the thread to answer your many questions about those updates. Looking forward to having some good discussions.

 

--- Keith

 

 

5char

[olagatonjedi]

The purpose of Conquest is not, and has never been, some way to test the 'tuning' of different parts of the game. That's something you completely made up that makes no logical sense. You are seriously grasping at straws here trying to defend EA (as you always do).

Where is your data to back this up? Quotes from the current regime? Anything?

 

Also, as usual. People misinterpret what I state. I didn't say that was the purpose of the changes, but definitely could be a byproduct of the changes. Unless you are in the boardroom to tell me game improvements aren't on the docket, my post makes a lot of sense.

Edited April 14, 2018 by olagatonjedi

[PennyAnn]

If only Bioware developers responded to the feedback they requested as often as their biggest fan seems to, we'd be in business.

 

.

[PorsaLindahl]

If only Bioware developers responded to the feedback they requested as often as their biggest fan seems to, we'd be in business.

 

.

 

IKR? Didn't really expect anything over the weekend to be honest. I don't care if the devs don't respond at all. They need to be working on the game, fixing this mess. Musco needs to make some sort of statement or acknowledgment about what's been posted. It's his job, and as far as I'm concerned he isn't doing his job. He's made 4 posts in the last 10 days. 2 on maintenance, 1 in Trix's thread asking for more feedback (like they're going to pay attention to it), and 1 post in the OTP thread.

Edited April 15, 2018 by PorsaLindahl

[olagatonjedi]

IKR? Didn't really expect anything over the weekend to be honest. I don't care if the devs don't respond at all. They need to be working on the game, fixing this mess. Musco needs to make some sort of statement or acknowledgment about what's been posted. It's his job, and as far as I'm concerned he isn't doing his job. He's made 4 posts in the last 10 days. 2 on maintenance, 1 in Trix's thread asking for more feedback (like they're going to pay attention to it), and 1 post in the OTP thread.

What else is there to know? They have reached out multiple times and gave indications of their plan. You don't "need" to know every detail.

[KendraP]

What else is there to know? They have reached out multiple times and gave indications of their plan. You don't "need" to know every detail.

 

Ignoring the outrage over the tank changes? I mean sure, im a bit miffed that suddenly now everyone is in arms about it when ive been saying the same thing for months and no one bothered listening.

 

This thread has had hundreds of replies since the 5 9 changes were posted - no response since then. Same thing on the 5.9 changes thread.

 

If you ask for feedback (or in the case of the 5.9 changes, continued feedback) and then don't so much as acknowledge that feedback (seriously even one of Musco's "I've read it and we're doing what we want anyway because we don't think your concerns are valid" posts) it makes paying customers feel unwanted. Is this a good customer service model?

 

I have a strong suspicion SWTOR is living off rhe IP. Thats why I'm still here, its the only star wars mmo and the marvel mmo went under.

[Akevv]

What else is there to know? They have reached out multiple times and gave indications of their plan. You don't "need" to know every detail.

 

You're just trolling at this point. I've reported the post and I hope others do as well.

[Akevv]

I decided to play the game as I normally would. For my 4 Pub side characters, no one broke 8,000 points. I completed the PvP weekly on 2 of 4 and will probably finish the other two tonight. Doing the weekly gets a character to about 6k points, with full conquest bonus, if you're wondering. There are no points awarded this week for the weekly nor for a win.

 

For the Ascended, we were a conquest guild, on both Pub and Imp sides. We had an officer meeting yesterday afternoon and have given up on conquest. If the dev goal was to stop participation in conquest, then you've succeeded wonderfully. We aren't large, but we were dedicated, showing up on the leader board month after month, pre pub 5.8. You've lost our interest, and multiple subscriptions.

 

Going forward, we've decided to take an alternative direction, so we could care less what you're going to do going forward. So far, only one of a dozen had re-subbed. We're playing our time out for those still active. A majority intend to stay free to play. There isn't much more to say that hasn't been said already.

[Costello]

You're just trolling at this point. I've reported the post and I hope others do as well.

 

How is what he said trolling?

 

It seems to be far more in keeping with the new improved communication as promised by Keith's first letter to the community.

 

Players wanted to discuss the Story and what were deemed short comings, I recall that topic reaching many many pages and no dialogue was ever forthcoming.

Players wanted to discuss the state of Ping after they shut down the west coast servers and no dialogue was ever forthcoming.

Players wanted to discuss the awful class balancing focusing solely on a target dps and no dialogue was ever forthcoming.

Players wanted to discuss companion returns and then when there were returns and they were 3 minutes long how that didn't seem to be doing things right and no dialogue was ever forthcoming.

Players wanted to discuss the lack of content, the choice of that limited content, getting augments, PvP and GSF and of late how skank tanks are being 'fixed' and no dialogue was ever forthcoming. Along with 20 or 30 other topics that I've forgotten.

 

So for him to suggest that we have all the information we will get hardly seems like his lying to get people angry, his not name calling or posting something he knows to be wrong, making demands or even suggesting people should quit if they don't like it or vote with their wallets.

 

And sadly, why should the devs discuss their decisions on this. Give it a few weeks all the people that were flag waving and threatening to quit will still be here and the next hot topic probably how many mats the new augments require will be the new rallying cry of how people should quit. Cause if you haven't quit over everything else that happened in 2017/18 and big problem with new conquest is how you can't do it on 25 of your alts to compete with big guilds, chances are if you have 25 alts you normally run through conquest you pretty invested in the game.

[PennyAnn]

Cause if you haven't quit over everything else that happened in 2017/18 and big problem with new conquest is how you can't do it on 25 of your alts to compete with big guilds, chances are if you have 25 alts you normally run through conquest you pretty invested in the game.

 

Was. Was invested in this game. Not really playing it anymore. And, as soon as arrangements are made to be sure I don't leave my guild members with a free-to-play guild, won't be paying a sub anymore either.

 

But I did invest a ton in this game. Time, money, effort... all of it. When they took the last vestige of reason for me to keep repeating old content and obliterated it, made it into a job instead of a fun bonus activity that provided a reason to continue playing tired, dated content... it changed things enough to be unworthy of my time, my effort, or my money (even as little as it is to sub per month!).

 

I never argued when people would say: "They can do whatever they want, there are some of us that will just stay no matter what because we love it here". I could see myself being one of those people. But actually, I think they have finally reached the breaking point, even for me.

 

I intended to stay until they shut off the servers. But if nothing changes, and the silence continues, and they continue to just sledgehammer things and pay no attention to the feedback that they ask for... then once the arrangements for my guild are finalized then my time here will be done. I don't say that lightly, or to get a reaction. No one is more surprised to hear me say that than I am, but here we are. (Or more appropriately: There we go.)

 

.

[ShadowGovernator]

SNIP

 

I intended to stay until they shut off the servers. But if nothing changes, and the silence continues, and they continue to just sledgehammer things and pay no attention to the feedback that they ask for... then once the arrangements for my guild are finalized then my time here will be done. I don't say that lightly, or to get a reaction. No one is more surprised to hear me say that than I am, but here we are. (Or more appropriately: There we go.)

 

.

 

Deafening silence...

 

No wait - I thought that I heard something far away in the distance...

 

It turned out to be tumbleweed and crickets...

[PorsaLindahl]

I think my thread asking who likes the conquest changes speaks for itself. Out of the 927 views, 1 person said he liked the changes, two responses that are basically indifferent to the changes, but most were off-target/random responses.

 

Some may try to rationalize it and say "the vocal forum community isn't that large." This is true for most general forum nonsense, but I have seen names of people that lurk, and rarely post, speak up against this atrocity called conquest. If it's bad enough to draw out those lurkers to speak against it, then any lurkers that like it would have spoken up as well.

 

So there you go, BW. You made one person happy. Good job.

[Costello]

Was. Was invested in this game. Not really playing it anymore. And, as soon as arrangements are made to be sure I don't leave my guild members with a free-to-play guild, won't be paying a sub anymore either.

 

But I did invest a ton in this game. Time, money, effort... all of it. When they took the last vestige of reason for me to keep repeating old content and obliterated it, made it into a job instead of a fun bonus activity that provided a reason to continue playing tired, dated content... it changed things enough to be unworthy of my time, my effort, or my money (even as little as it is to sub per month!).

 

I never argued when people would say: "They can do whatever they want, there are some of us that will just stay no matter what because we love it here". I could see myself being one of those people. But actually, I think they have finally reached the breaking point, even for me.

 

I intended to stay until they shut off the servers. But if nothing changes, and the silence continues, and they continue to just sledgehammer things and pay no attention to the feedback that they ask for... then once the arrangements for my guild are finalized then my time here will be done. I don't say that lightly, or to get a reaction. No one is more surprised to hear me say that than I am, but here we are. (Or more appropriately: There we go.)

 

.

 

I really hope they take notice, but after the treatment of the west coast players and everything else in 2017 I don't see it.

 

I remember saying how the lack of content was a problem for the game and being told by players that they were having fun so these things didn't matter. I hope they look back at 2017/18 and realize how they have made one mistake after another in the last year.

 

But if experience has shown anything come next month they will move onto their next mistake and summer will see another lack of content (not that Winter or Spring have seen much) and likely lack of tanks and they will ignore conquest just as how they have ignored how badly done the companions returns were or how little story has been added or anything else since Keith promised more open and transparent communication.

[olagatonjedi]

Ignoring the outrage over the tank changes? I mean sure, im a bit miffed that suddenly now everyone is in arms about it when ive been saying the same thing for months and no one bothered listening.

 

This thread has had hundreds of replies since the 5 9 changes were posted - no response since then. Same thing on the 5.9 changes thread.

 

If you ask for feedback (or in the case of the 5.9 changes, continued feedback) and then don't so much as acknowledge that feedback (seriously even one of Musco's "I've read it and we're doing what we want anyway because we don't think your concerns are valid" posts) it makes paying customers feel unwanted. Is this a good customer service model?

 

I have a strong suspicion SWTOR is living off rhe IP. Thats why I'm still here, its the only star wars mmo and the marvel mmo went under.

What's wrong with the tank changes? The data supports it. They chose to take the feedback from the conquest treads not to make a sweeping revamp of the system for a quick fix. Other than people just not liking a dps loss (which is expected no matter what game they are playing), what else is needed to know?

[olagatonjedi]

Careful, I just got a warning for criticising that poster.

 

No idea what happens if you report him.

 

All The Best

Just keep it civil and respectful and you should be ok. Calling someone a troll is name calling and will be reported.

[curulz]

What's wrong with the tank changes? The data supports it

 

Oh no, I'm going to get sucked in again....

 

The tank changes are lazy. Instead of encouraging tanks to use tank gear by adjusting how mitigation works, they decided to discourage PVP tanks, regardless of gear. I don't PVP, so don't really have a dog in the fight, but I still think they took a very uninspired approach. And I doubt there is data to support it, if they have data it wasn't shared so we do not know if it supports the dps nerf. One can choose to take them at face value, but I am skeptical.

[olagatonjedi]

Oh no, I'm going to get sucked in again....

 

The tank changes are lazy. Instead of encouraging tanks to use tank gear by adjusting how mitigation works, they decided to discourage PVP tanks, regardless of gear. I don't PVP, so don't really have a dog in the fight, but I still think they took a very uninspired approach. And I doubt there is data to support it, if they have data it wasn't shared so we do not know if it supports the dps nerf. One can choose to take them at face value, but I am skeptical.

Read the conquest "feedback" or complaints. There is huge backlash from the vocal minority on the forums stating that they should've just made small, quick fixes to conquest. They were very adamant about it, too. So when BW makes a small, quick fix to skank tanking (which has been around since launch, btw), then the outrage suggests they should've revamped the entire system.

 

The contradiction and expectations of the community are destructive. Its evidence that the playerbase will never be pleased, and are just looking for reasons to criticize. Why they want to simply criticize instead of enjoy what they have is beyond me, though.

[curulz]

Read the conquest "feedback" or complaints. There is huge backlash from the vocal minority on the forums stating that they should've just made small, quick fixes to conquest. They were very adamant about it, too. So when BW makes a small, quick fix to skank tanking (which has been around since launch, btw), then the outrage suggests they should've revamped the entire system.

 

The contradiction and expectations of the community are destructive. Its evidence that the playerbase will never be pleased, and are just looking for reasons to criticize. Why they want to simply criticize instead of enjoy what they have is beyond me, though.

 

BW just doesn't do subtle well. When they try, they seem to go too far in one direction or another which will draw the ire of the community. Their failure to see around the corner has plagued them multiple times.