New Conquest System: First Impressions

[LadyTremor]

There are 30 guilds on Star Forge occupying all available slots that are somehow earning points toward conquest on this new system. While you're here bellyaching, they're earning points.

 

SOMEBODY has figured it out. In fact 30 guild leaders have figured it out.

Look at Unchained Wrath on Star Forge, biggest planet, number 1, hit 1.028,930 points, second place is You Aint Sith at 435,538 points. THEY FIGURED IT OUT and they're rolling with it.

 

Get your footing in this new system and run with it. If this was an employee test to see how versatile you were with changing conditions, most of you, based on your whining, would score very poorly.

 

My recommendations to the DEVs: Let this play out for 2 weeks worth of conquests before doing any tweaks whatsoever. What you're seeing is a small subset of players who aren't patient enough to work with the new system.

 

Players on this thread saying the new conquest system sucks, etc., etc., roll it back, etc., etc., talk to the leader of Unchained Wrath. They have figured it out, and they're smoking you.

 

As a member of Unchained Wrath let me put a bit of a dent in your defense of this new system. Yes a large number of us have items such as crafting, Eternity Vault, but, a large portion of our Conquest points have also come the way so many people in this thread have suggested, through the donation of thousands of Invasion Forces. Prior to today, there were not many uses for Invasion forces so people had stock piles of them, but, come weeks in the future this option will simply not be viable and with the way Bioware has screwed up making War Supplies the crafting of Invasion Forces just got a whole lot harder.

[inoutallabout]

Or they just won't bother.

 

Yeah.

 

Unsubbed and feel bad about it, but idk what else to do. This destroyed the group content community overnight.

[KendraP]

Hi Eric,

 

I find it really unacceptable to change one of the dark project recipes so it no longer uses exotic isotope stabilizers. You didn't put this in the notes, meaning we had no chance to use our stockpiles before they became useless for dark projects. That's really unfair. Please change back the recipe. You can make it use Iokath recombinators too if you want, that's fine, but don't essentially rob us of our hard-earned materials.

 

At least itd be nice if they changed it bsck long enough for people to use the exotic isotopes we stocked up on.

 

Not telling us about this before hand was a jerk move.

[Euphrosyne]

There are 30 guilds on Star Forge occupying all available slots that are somehow earning points toward conquest on this new system. While you're here bellyaching, they're earning points.

 

SOMEBODY has figured it out. In fact 30 guild leaders have figured it out.

Look at Unchained Wrath on Star Forge, biggest planet, number 1, hit 1.028,930 points, second place is You Aint Sith at 435,538 points. THEY FIGURED IT OUT and they're rolling with it.

 

Get your footing in this new system and run with it. If this was an employee test to see how versatile you were with changing conditions, most of you, based on your whining, would score very poorly.

 

My recommendations to the DEVs: Let this play out for 2 weeks worth of conquests before doing any tweaks whatsoever. What you're seeing is a small subset of players who aren't patient enough to work with the new system.

 

Players on this thread saying the new conquest system sucks, etc., etc., roll it back, etc., etc., talk to the leader of Unchained Wrath. They have figured it out, and they're smoking you.

The leader of Unchained Wrath has already posted in this thread here. He is not as enamored of the new system as you think he is.

 

UW is earning points because we have a bunch of people who are trying it out. They are not impressed. Pretty much everybody in the UW Discord is complaining about the system and expressing lack of motivation to cap multiple toons.

 

The problem isn't "people are weak and lazy". The problem is the realistic amount of time that people with jobs and lives can devote to playing the game purely to cap conquest for the week, an objective with poor rewards out of all proportion to the now-massive effort needed to expend on reaching it. UW is running into the same issues as everybody else is; it's just bigger and has a larger hard core of people willing to make a first effort by setting fire to their Invasion Forces.

 

Employee versatility is a poor comparison. Instead, people are making a cost-benefit analysis. They correctly see that capping conquest is virtually impossible on lots of characters and that many of the content areas that they like to do - ops/locks, pvp, and fps - are pointless. There's no point in grouping for conquest-related activities and no point in playing as much as they did before. They, understandably, think that this is a Bad Thing and want it to be changed.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Euphrosyne

[LordTurin]

Well well well, one of the top 3 conquest guilds on my server landed on a small yield planet. Big surprise. There is not enough difference in guild rewards to prevent a conquest juggernaught from parking on these small yield planets to have an easy week. This prevent a the smaller guilds, the ones who should be targeting small yield planets, from having a shot at the title and achievement.

 

There are plenty of problems with the new conquest (GSF giving a joking amount of points, pvp only giving wins, etc.) but I actually think this isn't one of them. The big guilds will obviously grab a small yield every once in a while, but they'll gravitate towards the larger planets in weeks they don't need the title. 100k and double the number of jawa junk is enough that if your guild is large enough that you get 3 million every week no matter what, you may as well get your members those extra credits. Heck, on Star Forge the small yield first place team already has met the requirement for the guild score, but if they don't need the title (maybe they do? Who knows?), they've lost out on an extra 100k in the first couple hours already.

[xordevoreaux]

@xordevoreaux, did you do any conquest yourself today?

 

I hope you're aware that everyone gets 10k conquest for free, on every single char, just for doing any FP or operation due to the bug. People in our guild got the 10k without setting foot on Ilum.

If you craft an Invasion Force and 10 war supplies, do Battle of Ilum and kill the bonus boss... and then do some GSF, then you get ~10k. With the 10k from the bug you can finish conquest on a single char in a few hours.

 

But what's next? All the easy stuff has been done already, so all the other chars in your legacy will struggle now. And let's not forget that 10k weren't earned.

 

This isn't about huge guilds still coming out on top today. This is about everyone dealing with the new circumstances over the next few weeks... months... or perhaps even years.

 

You can forget that it'll ever be this "easy" as it was today. In the future there will be no bug doing half the work for you. There won't be a massive stockpile of invasion forces you can burn for points.

 

What happens then?

 

I've done Illum, and got 9k for killing one little mob, didn't have to anything other than that. Nice tip!

Now I'm doing Hoth for the rampage.

 

What happens when the point system is fixed is that there will still be winners and losers on the conquest boards. But people will win with 100k instead of 50million. It's the relative score, not the scale of the accumulation of the points, that should matter. Guilds shouldn't feel put out just because they're not hitting millions of points in a week. They should feel great that they earned, with points fixed in the future, 350K and came out on top. It is not about the scale.

Edited March 20, 2018 by xordevoreaux

[KendraP]

The problem isn't "people are weak and lazy". The problem is the realistic amount of time that people with jobs and lives can devote to playing the game purely to cap conquest for the week, an objective with poor rewards out of all proportion to the now-massive effort needed to expend on reaching it. UW is running into the same issues as everybody else is; it's just bigger and has a larger hard core of people willing to make a first effort by setting fire to their Invasion Forces.

 

Employee versatility is a poor comparison. Instead, people are making a cost-benefit analysis. They correctly see that capping conquest is virtually impossible on lots of characters and that many of the content areas that they like to do - ops/locks, pvp, and fps - are pointless. There's no point in grouping for conquest-related activities and no point in playing as much as they did before. They, understandably, think that this is a Bad Thing and want it to be changed.

 

Couldn't have put it better

[DarthSpuds]

Not telling us about this before hand was a jerk move.

 

Letting this abomination go live was the jerk move.

 

All The Best

[DaemionMoadrin]

Correct me if I'm wrong...

 

The golden recycle icon is for stuff you can repeat nonstop, with any char, anytime.

The silver recycly icon is for stuff you can do once per day (week?), per character.

 

The heroic on Ilum has the silver icon, I did it on two chars and both got the 825 points. So it's definitely not "once a day, once per legacy".

 

That doesn't make it much better for PvP though. Even if you only played one character, at most you could earn 6x825 points with warzones alone. That's not even 25% of what you need. You can't even run a quick random FP because those dailies no longer count. There's no reward for participation, for earned medals or anything except wins.

 

You're basically forcing guilds to run in premades and farming PUGs all day long. Especially in GSF. Since that's no fun for the majority of the player base, they'll play that less. That makes the issue even more pronounced until everything comes crashing down. Wouldn't even take a week to completely ruin GSF that way.

 

I haven't said much about the design yet... and you're lucky I didn't, BioWare. Give your GUI designers some remedial lessons and we won't mention this mess again. Deal?

[xordevoreaux]

Well, with the bug, and with everyone complaining, the servers will probably go down soon, and we'll either get server rollbacks or conquest this week will be shot in the head, or both.

[ptwonline]

It's still amazing to me that after all these years (since Beta), one of my first observations and complaints still holds true: they really don't seem to understand their playerbase very well.

 

It led to so many poor decisions even from the design stage, and so many poor decisions since then. Unlike another major MMO who seemed to figure things out a decade ago, these guys still seem to make major errors with new things because they don't appear to understand their players. Look at three of the latest major changes/content additions: conquest revamp, Iokath, Command XP. They soiled the bed with each one, and they should know better by now.

[matthobbit]

If the goal was to punish people playing an MMO for running group content (removing rewards for multiple operations, random flashpoints), then I suppose this patch is a resounding success.

[DragonMsterd]

I personally don't think it is an issue of learning the system or whatever as some have implied, I think most people's issues are that they removed the bonus's on things that we enjoyed doing to get conquest, and if they replaced them at all, replaced them with things that they do not enjoy doing, or severely limited how many times you can earn said reward. Thus removing their motivation to participate in conquest, and as a result, interest in running some of those events.

 

For example, the only reason I participated in PVP or GSF was primarily for conquest, this removes pretty much all motivation for me to participate in those events. I did, however, like running flashpoints and operations with my guildies, because the conquest bonus for doing these events has been eliminated or significantly lowered, getting people to join for these events will be much harder, especially story mode ops as very few in my guild need 236 gear anymore.

 

I also feel like I must address crafting. I realize that this isn't a "crafting week" and thus the crafting bonus's are much lower, I still feel that the chances to conquest crafting in general have been lower significantly. As I am sure that Biochem is just bugged where the different infantry supply kits were inadvertently left in the game, it makes making each war supply insanely expensive mats wise.

 

I personally feel that I may just ignore conquest entirely as the rewards just simply do not justify the effort anymore. I am also finding it hard to justify paying for this increasingly Massively Single Player Online RPG...

[Suprderk]

My first impression is that I am not a fan, but I guess that could change. Really the only reason to do conquest was for the competition to be in the top 10. The rewards have never been worth the effort. Being part of a small guild the only conquests we had a chance in were the crafting ones and we generally were able to make the top 10 most of the time in those conquests. Conquests could have been addressed by having a minimum number of conquest points to get guild rewards so that it would be possible for smaller guilds to get the crafting parts for the guild ships and the normal guild rewards with additional rewards for top 10 finishes. The amount of work it takes for a small guild to make top 10 is enormous and if the rewards were 10x I would still have more invested in mats and time than I received in return. It was fun competition which is why we did it, but in non crafting weeks we didn't stand a chance. I like having a minimum number of conquest points to get rewards, but unless we can get number 1 there is no need to go further. I am really not motivated to bother with it at this point. The rewards are poor and the competition is removed unless there is a chance to be number 1.

[megafirstone]

My first impression is just so bad system in years. I am pretty mad about the new system. This system will certainly lower youre playerbase again. GSF, warzone, operations, crafting need to be reversed. I am giving this till 6.0 if it is not better i am going to unsubscribe.

[Euphrosyne]

If the goal was to punish people playing an MMO for running group content (removing rewards for multiple operations, random flashpoints), then I suppose this patch is a resounding success.

At least you can still cap by running Battle of Ilum 100 times.

 

Per toon.

[DarthSpuds]

it makes making each war supply insanely expensive mats wise..

 

Which WILL drive material prices up.

Thus removing the brake on inflation they applied with the 8% GTN Tax.

 

It would seem there is no one at all in the Bioware office even remotely capable of joined-up thinking.

 

All The Best

[ShadowGovernator]

Can we roll back the Conquest changes entirely.

 

It's the ONLY way Conquest can be saved.

 

 

All The Best

 

I wrote a ticket demanding this a few hours ago and I can see that I am not alone.

You are a bunch of amateurs BW, stop putting your intern in charge and hire some real freaking professionals!

Roll back this junk right now or lose your conquest playing customers.

[Tarbuch]

Hey folks,

 

Feel free to use this thread as a source of general feedback on the Conquest revamp. We will be reading through the thread (and of course the rest of the forums) and gathering feedback.

 

-eric

 

Based on the comments so far in the thread, BioFail strikes again.

Since getting points is now harder, PVP is win Only, OPS is one per day/legacy, daily FP worthless.

Why bother with conquest at all...

Way to go BioFail, another great success on fubarring content patch.

[Pliskie]

If the goal was to punish people playing an MMO for running group content (removing rewards for multiple operations, random flashpoints), then I suppose this patch is a resounding success.

 

This is wrong but hard to see. The rewards for ops and last boss runs are still intact. The char you run it first in gets a "complete" as soon as you lock an alt in it is "incomplete" again. I just tested that. My main run the full ops 1800+ points. I switched the char and did a last boss run and that char got the 1800+ award again. I agree it is badly designed so that people draw the wrong conclusion (guilty that by myself). Plus the reward is only enough for a last boss run, the whole gf ops should award much more.

 

PvP and GSF must get more missions without a question. Crafting is a bad change too, but the once per char setting for opses and heroics are intact. And when you are onto it... how about adding some rewards for the PvE flying missions people forgot about. Promote your already made content, too many newjoiners do not know about "Fondor Escort" aso.

[Toraak]

There are 30 guilds on Star Forge occupying all available slots that are somehow earning points toward conquest on this new system. While you're here bellyaching, they're earning points.

 

SOMEBODY has figured it out. In fact 30 guild leaders have figured it out.

Look at Unchained Wrath on Star Forge, biggest planet, number 1, hit 1.028,930 points, second place is You Aint Sith at 435,538 points. THEY FIGURED IT OUT and they're rolling with it.

 

Get your footing in this new system and run with it. If this was an employee test to see how versatile you were with changing conditions, most of you, based on your whining, would score very poorly.

 

My recommendations to the DEVs: Let this play out for 2 weeks worth of conquests before doing any tweaks whatsoever. What you're seeing is a small subset of players who aren't patient enough to work with the new system.

 

Players on this thread saying the new conquest system sucks, etc., etc., roll it back, etc., etc., talk to the leader of Unchained Wrath. They have figured it out, and they're smoking you.

 

It has everything to do with Many of us got points for playing the game THE WAY WE WANT. I almost exclusively play GSF, and I got my conquest by doing that. I will not play conquest the way the devs have it set up now, and am angry that they are ruining the game I play GSF because fewer people will be in queu due to the changes in conquest. I don't care how others are playing, I can't play the part of Swtor that I love if not enough queu up, and most of the people in GSF were farming conquest.

[Tymethief]

So was Bioware just trying to kill the game with this patch? I've got guildies cancelling their subs and dropping like flies. You've made it impossible for people with alts to get conquest on more than one toon. You've made getting conquest DONE incredibly difficult. The crafting changes are asinine, and with the crappy point values most of us will just stop crafting altogether rather than deal with farming up that many different kinds of **** to craft that many different kinds of **** and then have to find space in their banks to hold all that ****. Subs are dropping like flies and these changes are horrible. *** were you thinking bioware?

[ThomasStarWars]

So was Bioware just trying to kill the game with this patch? I've got guildies cancelling their subs and dropping like flies. You've made it impossible for people with alts to get conquest on more than one toon. You've made getting conquest DONE incredibly difficult. The crafting changes are asinine, and with the crappy point values most of us will just stop crafting altogether rather than deal with farming up that many different kinds of **** to craft that many different kinds of **** and then have to find space in their banks to hold all that ****. Subs are dropping like flies and these changes are horrible. *** were you thinking bioware?

 

My sub ends in 8 days. Lets see what they got...

[KendraP]

My sub ends in 8 days. Lets see what they got...

 

16 for me. Ive been here for more than 5 years, too. I feel like they're actively trying to run me off.

[Euphrosyne]

This is wrong but hard to see. The rewards for ops and last boss runs are still intact. The char you run it first in gets a "complete" as soon as you lock an alt in it is "incomplete" again. I just tested that. My main run the full ops 1800+ points. I switched the char and did a last boss run and that char got the 1800+ award again. I agree it is badly designed so that people draw the wrong conclusion (guilty that by myself). Plus the reward is only enough for a last boss run, the whole gf ops should award much more.

This is impossible to replicate consistently. We tested lockout runs early this afternoon and found that we weren't getting points on the second characters in our legacies. If you were able to get it on multiple toons, you either are using multiple legacies or you benefited from a lucky bug.