New Conquest System: First Impressions

[casirabit]

2. Crafting weapons aka Holocron, Crystal, Starship, Armored is beyond dumb atm, should there be a change, nerf to crafting yes there should be some type of change however this is one is way to drastic matt wise.

 

3. Weeklies? what points. You only get points for running the same one FP, uprising. And for PvP you can only do get points for 1 match a win and that's on 1 of your toons in your entire legacy for that day.

 

Weekly-Iokath was a weekly that I was able to do yesterday and got points for that one.

[DarthSpuds]

I just didn't expect everyone to be brandishing torches and pitchforks over this. Not even GC had this kind of reaction when it first came out. And that was bad.

 

So is this.

 

Last week my guild - 6 Active players, 4 that contribute to conquest - managed by concerted effort and a little bit of good fortune (a few of us had a few days off work and could dedicate that to Conquest activities) to finish 6th in Conquest.

 

Looking at what we did that week I reckon we wouldn't place anywhere near the Top Ten now and most of us would fail to hit Individual Targets.

 

The reason there's more backlash over this than there was over CXP is because this IS WORSE THAN CXP.

 

And I genuinely didn't think it was possible to do that - so well done to Bioware for exceeding my expectation on the absolute limits of incompetence.

 

All The Best

[Aeneas_Falco]

Apparently the current use for them is Vendor Trash.

 

Knowing Bioware they'll wait 6 months until everyone has Vendored them, then they'll add a Trade-Up Vendor so you can hand in 10 EIS for 1 Recombinator.

 

All The Best

 

Synthweavers and armortechs can still use them with some armor designs. A few of the schematics require Exotic Isotopes.

 

On that note it would be foolish to vendor them because you'll still get a lot more than their vendor price from the GTN, they just won't be worth as much as they used to be when they were needed for Dark Projects.

 

That all said considering they now only have a use in a handful of crafting schematics Bioware should consider removing them from the game entirely, replacing them with Refined Isoptopes in both drops and crafting schematics.

[DarthSpuds]

The funny thing is with swtor, all they really HAVE to do to keep most of us that are left was maintain the status quo and let it live on the IP.

 

Apparently they cant even manage that

 

That's the thing the love for this IP is so strong and so widespread that any half-competent Game Developer could make bank on it for years.

 

The ONLY reason I can see for the game being in this state of decline is because Bioware want an excuse to pull the plug.

 

You could put 100 chimps in charge of development and accidentally get better results than this.

 

All The Best

[Ibokagain]

I'm amused still by all the "end of the world" level crying here over things things that are bad. Some aren't even looking into it or messing with it, but are going off what they see on the outside/what people say that are going off what they see. Others are jumping to the conclusion that these things are intended and deliberately set up a certain way and come here raging.

 

So after doing some conquest myself, and discussing it with my guild, it seems that most of what people here are complaining about, are bugs. Things aren't making sense and seem overly restrictive. Yet these things don't prove true across all toons or faction. For example: On some toons, the conquest U.I. OPs is only doable once on one toon period, yet on other toons, it can be repeated. Others are saying that the points don't even show up or are missing, or entire missions are missing.

 

However, aside from the bugs and the aforementioned lack of description, there are some things that, and this is assuming it's not bugged, should be improved. PvP, FP, and Uprisings give really low points for what they are. Group content should be giving more than daily missions, or crafting. And crafting should probably get a small increase, but it would probably be fine where it is if the other group missions had the proper points rewarded.

 

Now, let's say that these were intended. Does this make them incompetent, stupid, and deserving of being fired? No. It means they're imperfect and make mistakes like you and me. NOTHING gives ANYONE the right to be rude to them about it.

 

So to conclude: I love the new Conquest setup. I am interested to find out what are bugs and what is intended. Then we can have a clear understanding of things and give proper feedback.

 

Can I have a job where you work, clearly I can say things are great and amazing, and yet do nothing and still be good in your eyes.

[DarthSpuds]

Story and PvP are two very compelling reasons to play this game. Grinding Conquest to make some guild ship look a little bit nicer is not. This is not EVE.

 

It may not be for you, but it is a damn good reason for some players.

I'm not one of them - my engagement with Conquest is super casual at best.

 

But I see no reason why those who enjoy it a lot should be dumped on in this manner.

 

Heck even as a super casual Conquest player these changes are unforgivable.

 

It genuinely feels like Bioware are deliberately going to extreme lengths to piss people off, and incentivise them to quit.

 

All The Best

[TTuck]

I think it would go a long way toward calming people down if they explained some things. You know something like "the conquest objectives with the silver triangle should be repeatable by each character (or each legacy if that is what they intended) once per day. We realize this is not working right and are looking into it." Ignoring a 50 page thread that is 99% negative is like throwing gas on the fire in hopes of putting it out.

[JediJoy]

Snip....

 

Yes BW is notorious for sneaking things in, but this was intended for good not bad.

Take for instance "Crafting to win", people came to the forums constantly complaining that needed nerfed because it wasn't fair, on weeks that Crafting rewarded tons of points. So look what they did: They made the crafting harder, randomized the schedule to just a week ahead (which is nice because they said it was going to be completely random). Now they are getting harassed & trashed for listening to the players.

 

"Crafting to win" was literally the only way a small guild could ever compete with a large guild. The amount of people complaining about this was very few and far in between to warrant this drastic of a nerf. EA essentially killed crafting completely. The "donate" 10 invasion forces for 513 conquest points (IF you have 150% bonus) is literally a slap in the face compared to the amount of work put into crafting them in the first place.

 

I am second in command of a small to medium sized guild (we average 15-30 active members, not counting their alts). We are technically a casual guild that ironically recruited members who are very passionate about conquest and crafting. My team of NecroCrafters put us in first place during crafting weeks. This was our one chance to shine, to go after a large guild and crush them (Is crush too harsh a word?). This was our one chance to have our name in the sky on the planet we conquered. Our one chance to actually work towards the Galaxy Conqueror title and achievement, which we know we would never complete without leaving to join a larger guild. My NecroCrafters spent hours and hours and hours farming mats (not purchasing off gtn) and crafting components in preparation for each crafting week. We would farm heroics together to pay for the white bits needed to craft. When my NecroCrafters would start to load in their toons and our points would skyrocket, it inspired our guildies to get more involved. Crafting is not easy nor cheap and definitely not for the light hearted.

 

However, crafting was the one time a small guild could invade and actually have a chance to win first place. For the non crafting guilds, during crafting week, there were tons of other possibilities to score big points and easily stay on the board (well until they introduced solo Iokath which was a pain even for crafting guilds).

 

From the beginning, Conquest was about getting ALL guilds involved and encouraging everyone to do activities outside their norm. Crafting weeks used to arrive every 2-4 months which gave other guilds a chance to shine depending on their strengths on the off weeks. One week was focused on Operations, another on PvP or GSF. There was always a conquest week focused on a different aspect of the game. Guilds learned to play on their strengths and planned ahead regarding which planet to invade.

 

With the new system, this is all gone. Small guilds have literally no way possible to compete. Crafting has been obliterated as well as the need for alts and the Companion Token. People are being punished for only liking certain aspects of the game. Conquest was never about the grind, it was always about encouraging more group content as well as to keep end gamers busy while the devs worked on releasing more content.

 

I have weathered every storm they have sent us.... this was the last one for me. When developers start "balancing" everything you enjoy about the game and there is nothing left, its time to say good bye.

Edited March 21, 2018 by JediJoy

[translucentwolf]

Story and PvP are two very compelling reasons to play this game. Grinding Conquest to make some guild ship look a little bit nicer is not. This is not EVE.

 

This. Conquest could, and should be removed entirely. PvP and PvE are the content people play. Conquest was a meta, on par with 'playing the GTN'. Only useful/enjoyable for a small part of the player base.

 

A lot of us never really noticed.

 

And a lot of us just don't care.

 

See y'all in a Warzone. I'll come chat about the Conquest changes, while I'm showing you what my single target dps looks like

[Ibokagain]

There was a post about the conquest changes

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9549316#post9549316

 

And yet nothing in there about the bugs, and legacy lockouts. Your point?

[DarthSpuds]

These changes are to give guilds like mine and many many others that never had a chance in hell in winning a chance now.

 

Thank you Bioware for listening to the common casual players!

 

As a Casual Player of a small guild (only 6 or so active players) these changes are goddamn awful.

 

Last week we placed 6th on the Conquest Leaderboard, this week we'll be lucky to hit 60th.

 

If you think these changes help small guilds and casuals you have fundamentally misunderstood what just happened.

 

They "told" us that was the intention - the actual implementation was the EXACT OPPOSITE.

 

All The Best

[TUXs]

There was a post about the conquest changes

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9549316#post9549316

I disagree. There was no post ABOUT the changes like you claim...it was a post saying there would be changes. I even stated, in that very thread, that it was ALL very vague...and I was right.

[DarthSpuds]

I have 3 capped already and I don't play much. Not sure what you are doing to not get capped.

 

Everyone is getting capped this week because of a HUGE bug that awards 10k Points for doing nothing.

That bug will get fixed.

 

All The Best

[TUXs]

Everyone is getting capped this week because of a HUGE bug that awards 10k Points for doing nothing.

That bug will get fixed.

 

All The Best

 

^^ Exactly lol

[KendraP]

I disagree. There was no post ABOUT the changes like you claim...it was a post saying there would be changes. I even stated, in that very thread, that it was ALL very vague...and I was right.

 

I agree Tux. The lack of communication, even now, is absolutely astonishing. I posted a very thoughtful essay with constructive criticism back on page 47 (albeit after spending most of yesterday raging).

 

This level of outcry warrants some form of response.

There are a lot of subscriptions riding on a response, and many, like myself, have said all we really want are our concerns addressed and plans to have them fixed.

[TUXs]

I agree Tux. The lack of communication, even now, is absolutely astonishing. I posted a very thoughtful essay with constructive criticism back on page 47 (albeit after spending most of yesterday raging).

 

This level of outcry warrants some form of response.

There are a lot of subscriptions riding on a response, and many, like myself, have said all we really want are our concerns addressed and plans to have them fixed.

I read your post...very well said. Like you, I also think they had good intentions, they just failed. They go off things they think they should do without ever asking what we might want them to do. This would be fine if THEY were the ones paying our sub fees...but they aren't...all they've done is harm the game...again...

[MacCleoud]

I agree Tux. The lack of communication, even now, is absolutely astonishing. I posted a very thoughtful essay with constructive criticism back on page 47 (albeit after spending most of yesterday raging).

 

This level of outcry warrants some form of response.

There are a lot of subscriptions riding on a response, and many, like myself, have said all we really want are our concerns addressed and plans to have them fixed.

 

It was a very good post. With the exception of a m month period, I have been a sub since launch. This is the first time in all that time I have felt like cancelling everything and just letting it go.

[Mournblood]

See y'all in a Warzone. I'll come chat about the Conquest changes, while I'm showing you what my single target dps looks like

 

How very self-serving and short-sighted of you. Did it occur to you that if enough players are disgruntled about this fiasco, you're only going to be showing your single target DPS to the parsing dummies on your ship?

[casirabit]

And yet nothing in there about the bugs, and legacy lockouts. Your point?

 

my point is the person I was responding to said this:

 

I want to know why this was not brought up to the players before putting it up live.

 

So my response was that they did bring it up before. Did I say they explain it completely no. I just stated they did bring bring it up before.

Edited March 21, 2018 by casirabit

[casirabit]

I disagree. There was no post ABOUT the changes like you claim...it was a post saying there would be changes. I even stated, in that very thread, that it was ALL very vague...and I was right.

 

Tux, my response was that it was stated they didn't discuss it, they did, but that doesn't mean they discuss it completely, with that I agree. But saying they didn't discuss would be wrong, saying they didn't discuss it completely well that would be true as there were questions and things not discussed which should have been.

 

I had actually hoped that they would discuss these changes in more detail on the livestream but they didn't which was something they should have done instead of having a 30 minute stream and then having one of the influencers do a stream on playing the operation. That was nice but not what was needed at that time.

Edited March 21, 2018 by casirabit

[CaptRogue]

"Crafting to win" was literally the only way a small guild could ever compete with a large guild. The amount of people complaining about this was very few and far in between to warrant this drastic of a nerf. EA essentially killed crafting completely. The "donate" 10 invasion forces for 513 conquest points (IF you have 150% bonus) is literally a slap in the face compared to the amount of work put into crafting them in the first place.

 

I am second in command of a small to medium sized guild (we average 15-30 active members, not counting their alts). We are technically a casual guild that ironically recruited members who are very passionate about conquest and crafting. My team of NecroCrafters put us in first place during crafting weeks. This was our one chance to shine, to go after a large guild and crush them (Is crush too harsh a word?). This was our one chance to have our name in the sky on the planet we conquered. Our one chance to actually work towards the Galaxy Conqueror title and achievement, which we know we would never complete without leaving to join a larger guild. My NecroCrafters spent hours and hours and hours farming mats (not purchasing off gtn) and crafting components in preparation for each crafting week. We would farm heroics together to pay for the white bits needed to craft. When my NecroCrafters would start to load in their toons and our points would skyrocket, it inspired our guildies to get more involved. Crafting is not easy nor cheap and definitely not for the light hearted.

 

However, crafting was the one time a small guild could invade and actually have a chance to win first place. For the non crafting guilds, during crafting week, there were tons of other possibilities to score big points and easily stay on the board (well until they introduced solo Iokath which was a pain even for crafting guilds).

 

From the beginning, Conquest was about getting ALL guilds involved and encouraging everyone to do activities outside their norm. Crafting weeks used to arrive every 2-4 months which gave other guilds a chance to shine depending on their strengths on the off weeks. One week was focused on Operations, another on PvP or GSF. There was always a conquest week focused on a different aspect of the game. Guilds learned to play on their strengths and planned ahead regarding which planet to invade.

 

With the new system, this is all gone. Small guilds have literally no way possible to compete. Crafting has been obliterated as well as the need for alts and the Companion Token. People are being punished for only liking certain aspects of the game. Conquest was never about the grind, it was always about encouraging more group content as well as to keep end gamers busy while the devs worked on releasing more content.

 

I have weathered every storm they have sent us.... this was the last one for me. When developers start "balancing" everything you enjoy about the game and there is nothing left, its time to say good bye.

 

Hold on mate. Don't leave just yet. They could still fix this to the advantage. It's only been implemented for a little over 24hrs...

 

And yes, while I posted that, I never had a problem with craft to win really. lol Heck that's how our guild got Iokath this last time around. It's very fun, albeit work, and extremely competitive.

I do understand that. (The whole randomness also has killed it somewhat, but on the other hand you can always just plan to have crafting ready as you have 1 week to plan ahead.)

[Ibokagain]

I disagree. There was no post ABOUT the changes like you claim...it was a post saying there would be changes. I even stated, in that very thread, that it was ALL very vague...and I was right.

 

^ This

[Ibokagain]

Everyone is getting capped this week because of a HUGE bug that awards 10k Points for doing nothing.

That bug will get fixed.

 

All The Best

 

That and when his guild stops giving him invasion forces to "donate"

[KendraP]

Tux, my response was that it was stated they didn't discuss it, they did, but that doesn't mean they discuss it completely, with that I agree. But saying they didn't discuss would be wrong, saying they didn't discuss it completely well that would be true as there were questions and things not discussed which should have been.

 

Did they discuss rhe massive overhaul to the crafting system?

What about the fact that some activities that were spammable now aren't?

How about the nerf to alting since its so difficult to cap a toon now (or will be when they fix the bug)?

 

Its absurd that such a massive overhaul went out with such vague and obscure notification.

 

And whats more, we're still being ignored. I feel like my 5-6 years of sub time really means something (aka not really).

[DarthSpuds]

Totally agree on that one. And sorry for asking, i am just too lazy to read 46 pages, but... How do I understand which objectives are legacy-based and which are not? And why I happen to NOT get a points sometimes? Do I have to tick the objective I am up for or what?

 

If you ever figure that out PM the Devs so they can understand why everything they just patched in was wrong.

 

All The Best