Lord_Drayvn Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 I am 100% in favor of a Legacy base or account base friends list with an Appear Offline option and the choice to let people add you or not and the option to just add character names if its all you want. I think the choice should be there for the ones that want this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRKMSN Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 (edited) IMHO the concern about legacy ignore somehow making players less anonymous is misguided. Ignoring a legacy wouldn't require anyone *knowing* the legacy name. The same way I can ignore an email address without knowing the name of the person behind an email address. Even if someone's able to somehow discover that Darth Trollface and Darth Skullface are part of the same legacy it still doesn't give away the legacy name. My argument is that taking away anonymity makes more victims. Most people that like anonymity aren't the "problem" and enjoy it to alleviate potential problems. I already gave you one example in this thread of how anonymity can be compromised using legacy ignore: Let's say a person (we'll call him Tom) knows a certain player because of their main character or a toon they play often. They identify that character as "Sam" (generic name example). They see that Sam is not online, but suspect this character named "Bob" is one of Sam's alts. Bob is involved in a conversation on general chat. To make things easy, we'll say Tom has no players on his ignore list. Now he adds Sam to his legacy ignore and, wouldn't you know it, he no longer sees Bob's replies in the gen chat discussion, yet people are clearly responding to obviously missing replies. He has just used the legacy ignore feature to discover and confirm that Bob and Sam are indeed the same player. Here's an even easier way: Tom suspects a player he knows as "Ray" is the player playing on the toon named "Jeff." He uses the "Who" tab (search) to see the list of players on the planet Jeff is on, (we'll say CZ-198). There are 14 players on CZ-198 including Jeff. Tom now adds Ray to his ignore list and checks the CZ-198 list again and Jeff doesn't appear on the list. Tom removes Ray from ignore and Jeff is back. Tom has once again used legacy ignore to confirm a player's identity. Also, the focus should be on protecting potential victims rather than protecting the anonymity of harassers. You can get harassed simply walking around on the Fleet or minding your business and trying to complete your quests.Having to manually put people on your ignore list is not much trouble. I seriously doubt someone will start randomly harassing someone else that is simply walking around minding his own business. I think a lot of this comes down to what is harassment and what is not. Some people think that anything that another player does to them without permission is harassment (i.e. throwing snowballs, using emotes, using a game mechanic in the open world, ganking, trolling, being annoying, telling group members to use spacebar, refusing to use spacebar, focusing on them in a WZ, etc. ... ) As a result, CS gets a ton of harassment reports that aren't really harassment at all. It makes it harder for them to resolve a real case of harassment that is in fact, pretty rare. If someone is legitimately harassing you on alts, it should be easy to add the alts 1 at a time (click - add - done with that alt) . I understand that ignore lists are limited currently and maybe they need to make some changes in that area. I have to wonder why someone would have an ignore list maxed out, though. Maybe, just maybe, they are part of their own problem. I have seen in several different guilds some players that play the victim card after being largely responsible for all the drama through confrontational behavior or careless flirting for attention. These people always have tons of people on ignore. Anyway, I don't support something that can potentially solve a rare problem for one person and potentially create another for somebody else (or even that same person). Import/export faction friend or ignore lists makes things simpler for players without compromising anonymity. IMO, it's the better solution. Edited March 25, 2018 by BRKMSN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 BRKMSN;956576 I understand that ignore lists are limited currently and maybe they need to make some changes in that area. I have to wonder why someone would have an ignore list maxed out, though. Maybe, just maybe, they are part of their own problem. I have seen in several different guilds some players that play the victim card after being largely responsible for all the drama through confrontational behavior or careless flirting for attention. These people always have tons of people on ignore. What do you consider careless flirting? I had a situation once, when I was walking in the fleet to go get something, when someone came up to my character and pop up on her rear and then made a comment uncalled for. I didn't know the person, didn't speak to the person, I was only heading to the stronghold area to purchase something. That action and comment was on that person or are you going to say that I asked for that just because I was walking in the fleet. This is why I don't approve of legacy based friendship without a pop up giving me the right to reject a friendship. Frankly if a person gets mad because I reject their friendship the problem is theirs. You don't just add someone to a friend's list without permission. Why should I have to add each alt to my ignore list when I haven't done anything. Maybe if people would learn to be a little more respectful then we wouldn't have this problem but people tend to use the internet as an excuse for their behaviour. Note: I normally don't add people to my ignore list unless they give me no choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IoNonSoEVero Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 My argument is that taking away anonymity makes more victims. Most people that like anonymity aren't the "problem" and enjoy it to alleviate potential problems. I already gave you one example in this thread of how anonymity can be compromised using legacy ignore: Let's say a person (we'll call him Tom) knows a certain player because of their main character or a toon they play often. They identify that character as "Sam" (generic name example). They see that Sam is not online, but suspect this character named "Bob" is one of Sam's alts. Bob is involved in a conversation on general chat. To make things easy, we'll say Tom has no players on his ignore list. Now he adds Sam to his legacy ignore and, wouldn't you know it, he no longer sees Bob's replies in the gen chat discussion, yet people are clearly responding to obviously missing replies. He has just used the legacy ignore feature to discover and confirm that Bob and Sam are indeed the same player. And then Bob/Sam can use the Legacy Ignore on anyone who tries to bother them and won't be a victim. Having to manually put people on your ignore list is not much trouble. I seriously doubt someone will start randomly harassing someone else that is simply walking around minding his own business. Just because it hasn't' happened to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've been harassed numerous times when I've been walking through the fleet just trying to buy stuff. I've been duel spammed seven or eight times and then when I ignore the person, their friend starts the same thing. I've had people literally run circles around me for minutes on end. I've had little packs of people try to corner me in open daily areas (non-PvP). I've heard from others that have had very explicit and disgusting whispers directed toward them out of the blue. And before we blame the victim, I keep every single chat and conversation channel OFF. I do not talk to anyone or interact with anyone I don't know. I'm sorry you can't imagine that some people in this game will behave in hostile ways toward others for the sake of behaving in hostile ways but it certainly happens all the time. And I should not have to spend my days putting every single one of their alts on ignore and reporting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRKMSN Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 And then Bob/Sam can use the Legacy Ignore on anyone who tries to bother them and won't be a victim. Just because it hasn't' happened to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've been harassed numerous times when I've been walking through the fleet just trying to buy stuff. I've been duel spammed seven or eight times and then when I ignore the person, their friend starts the same thing. I've had people literally run circles around me for minutes on end. I've had little packs of people try to corner me in open daily areas (non-PvP). I've heard from others that have had very explicit and disgusting whispers directed toward them out of the blue. And before we blame the victim, I keep every single chat and conversation channel OFF. I do not talk to anyone or interact with anyone I don't know. I'm sorry you can't imagine that some people in this game will behave in hostile ways toward others for the sake of behaving in hostile ways but it certainly happens all the time. And I should not have to spend my days putting every single one of their alts on ignore and reporting them. You assume the (potential legacy ignore) abusers are always people you would ignore. If you read this thread alone, you will see several people like me that simply want to play anonymous characters at times (even when friends are on). Potentially, a friend can find your identity using those examples before you are ready to reveal yourself. Duel spam is it's own annoyance that should have a simple "automatically reject duel requests" checkbox. People running around you in circles isn't harassment. Go to your stronghold if it's that troublesome. Reporting that as harassment is abuse of the report feature. As soon as someone whispers you, it's no trouble to put them on ignore. But if you want to prevent whispers, just remove it from all chat preferences. Yes, there are bad people in the community. That is why we have the features we do. One can argue that Customer Service doesn't do enough to deter bad behavior and I'd agree with that, but that also is it's own issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IoNonSoEVero Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 (edited) You assume the (potential legacy ignore) abusers are always people you would ignore. If you read this thread alone, you will see several people like me that simply want to play anonymous characters at times (even when friends are on). Potentially, a friend can find your identity using those examples before you are ready to reveal yourself. Duel spam is it's own annoyance that should have a simple "automatically reject duel requests" checkbox. People running around you in circles isn't harassment. Go to your stronghold if it's that troublesome. Reporting that as harassment is abuse of the report feature. As soon as someone whispers you, it's no trouble to put them on ignore. But if you want to prevent whispers, just remove it from all chat preferences. Yes, there are bad people in the community. That is why we have the features we do. One can argue that Customer Service doesn't do enough to deter bad behavior and I'd agree with that, but that also is it's own issue. *I* have characters I don't want anyone to find because they're my "I want to play without being distracted" characters. I'm not worried about someone finding them through Legacy Ignore. In order to find someone and connect them via Legacy Ignore, you'd still have to a) know the name of the second character b) have nobody else on your ignore list. If someone's obsessive and weird enough to sit there going through every character on the fleet or the /who list to try to find another character that might belong to a friend or enemy, they are likely going to figure it out another way anyway. If someone's been a jerk to me on one character I don't want to inadvertently interact with them on another character. I don't want to be in any position to help them or talk to them or be in a guild with them. I don't want to end up in a flashpoint or another activity with them. Legacy Ignore facilitates that. Running circles around someone when they are minding their own business and trying to get something done IS harassment. It's someone acting like a jerk and trying to call attention to themselves for their own kicks. There's no reason *I* or anyone else should have to leave an area or stop what we're doing to accommodate that type of behavior. There's no reason I should have to take time out of my day to report them. I'm more inclined to support features that will help upstanding community members avoid jerks, and the Legacy Ignore would be a huge thing in favor of that. Edited March 25, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRKMSN Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 (edited) *I* have characters I don't want anyone to find because they're my "I want to play without being distracted" characters. I'm not worried about someone finding them through Legacy Ignore. In order to find someone and connect them via Legacy Ignore, you'd still have to a) know the name of the second character b) have nobody else on your ignore list. If someone's obsessive and weird enough to sit there going through every character on the fleet or the /who list to try to find another character that might belong to a friend or enemy, they are likely going to figure it out another way anyway. If someone's been a jerk to me on one character I don't want to inadvertently interact with them on another character. I don't want to be in any position to help them or talk to them or be in a guild with them. I don't want to end up in a flashpoint or another activity with them. Legacy Ignore facilitates that. Running circles around someone when they are minding their own business and trying to get something done IS harassment. It's someone acting like a jerk and trying to call attention to themselves for their own kicks. There's no reason *I* or anyone else should have to leave an area or stop what we're doing to accommodate that type of behavior. There's no reason I should have to take time out of my day to report them. I'm more inclined to support features that will help upstanding community members avoid jerks, and the Legacy Ignore would be a huge thing in favor of that. *Correction* you would only need a name you suspect is somebody else and you can have 100 people on your ignore list and still do it. My earlier example was just removing variables. If someone is running around my characters in circles, it doesn't do anything to my character and I'd have to go out of my way to be offended by it. For all that person knows, I'm afk. I have a question for you. Are you the kind of person you would put on ignore? Edited March 25, 2018 by BRKMSN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRKMSN Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 BRKMSN;956576 . What do you consider careless flirting? I had a situation once, when I was walking in the fleet to go get something, when someone came up to my character and pop up on her rear and then made a comment uncalled for. I didn't know the person, didn't speak to the person, I was only heading to the stronghold area to purchase something. That action and comment was on that person or are you going to say that I asked for that just because I was walking in the fleet. This is why I don't approve of legacy based friendship without a pop up giving me the right to reject a friendship. Frankly if a person gets mad because I reject their friendship the problem is theirs. You don't just add someone to a friend's list without permission. Why should I have to add each alt to my ignore list when I haven't done anything. Maybe if people would learn to be a little more respectful then we wouldn't have this problem but people tend to use the internet as an excuse for their behaviour. Note: I normally don't add people to my ignore list unless they give me no choice. The context of "careless flirting" was a reference to the stuff you see in guilds where some people flirt with other guildies even though in real life, they are committed to someone else in a relationship. More times than not, this situation ends ugly. IMO, people shouldn't go there --- especially if they have a real life spouse or significant other. I'm opposed to legacy friending and friends via request systems in general. I don't like those for the same reasons you have concerns. I don't want to hurt feelings or have drama resulting from that system. Nobody should even have to add a single person to an ignore list, but it's there. Arguing that we shouldn't have to spend 5 seconds doing it to an alt of someone we already ignored doesn't seem like a strong enough reason to compromise player anonymity, to me. We shouldn't have to wait 90 seconds to use /stuck again when we are legitimately stuck, but sometimes we have to deal with the occasional inconvenience because of the potential for abuse of the /stuck feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikitaStormchild Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 I´m all up for a legacy based friend / ignore list. In Guild Wars 1 the friendlist was account wide and i had no problem with it. And if the ignore would do the same then we wouldn´t have to bother with the same player we ignored on 1 toon, when he/she is using another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmiHale Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 Another thing, if they're your friend, then they'll leave you alone during alone time. When I tell my friends I want alone time, they leave me alone. If they don't, they don't respect you so hence, not a friend. So there's that too. Just really bugging me that this turned into a huge debate with people repeating themselves. Yes, it should only be consensual. Yes, it should be ignore and friend, not just one. So there's that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRKMSN Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 It bothers you that your thread received attention and is getting bumped due to debating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmiHale Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 It bothers you that your thread received attention and is getting bumped due to debating? It bothers me that you guys are repeating yourselves over the same thing. You're all saying yes or no just in different words or the same details. Also, I might've been in a bad mood when I posted that. XD I lose my mouth filter then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyr-Zyn Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 (edited) after reading the replies, I can see how something like this could be used in the wrong way and could rob users of the possibilities to be invisible. At the same time, I do feel like some form of this would be a valuable addition to the game. Perhaps if it was something that you could toggle even after you agreed to it. It could be added to the preferences section under social or something. Edited October 13, 2019 by Tyr-Zyn miss-spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorsic Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Vote +1 Add Leagcy Friend/Ignore and Invisible mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediKodex Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 I support this! Especially since some friends' names are difficult to copy & paste because of how the system treats accented/special letters/characters Not to mention the Spammer epidemic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nee-Elder Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 (edited) I support this! Especially since some friends' names are difficult to copy & paste because of how the system treats accented/special letters/characters Not to mention the Spammer epidemic... QFE + 1 Let's hope for 2020 implementation, eh BioWare? --- after reading the replies, I can see how something like this could be used in the wrong way and could rob users of the possibilities to be invisible. I hear ya but remember it's very easy to purchase (cheaper now) the 'rename: ____ Name' item on Cartel Market . So if certain types of players are gonna break rules, repeatedly, yet don't want to be full account ignored, then at least make them PAY to change their name(s) and continue being dooshy. Rinse & repeat until they either get bored or go broke. Edited December 21, 2019 by Nee-Elder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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