gamephil Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 I'm not sure what happened to the command signal. We lost the fleet and the command interface but whether it still exists is beyond me. It may have been bound to that particular console/chair on Odessen we saw explode. Lord Dramoth? Nathema? I assume that the GEMINI frequency is simply gone. Maybe it still exists on Iokath or something. But since they were all connected together, I kind of like the idea that they were able to create a backup. KotET and the finish to the story didn't sit well for me in all kinds of ways, and not just because of the Empress. That was just the most striking part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 I assume that the GEMINI frequency is simply gone. Maybe it still exists on Iokath or something. But since they were all connected together, I kind of like the idea that they were able to create a backup. KotET and the finish to the story didn't sit well for me in all kinds of ways, and not just because of the Empress. That was just the most striking part of it. If they were all built on Iokath, then I would assume the Gemini frequency initiated from there. I'm just guessing but to me it appears we just lost the fleet we had and console that allowed us to control them, both of which can easily be replaced from Iokath. - KotET assassinated pretty much everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenipher Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) I'm curious why Arcann got a redemption path but not Vaylin. After learning her story I thought she was a far more worthy candidate for healing and redemption. Why did they choose to give it to only Arcann, I wonder. One of my favourite moments in KOTET was my SW saying: he's all yours, Vaylin. Vaylin: kneel before the dragon of zakuul! Edited January 12, 2019 by Xenipher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 I'm curious why Arcann got a redemption path but not Vaylin. After learning her story I thought she was a far more worthy candidate for healing and redemption. Why did they choose to give it to only Arcann, I wonder. One of my favourite moments in KOTET was my SW saying: he's all yours, Vaylin. Vaylin: kneel before the dragon of zakuul! I don't know why they did this, but, sadly, it worked. Plenty of people have praised the story for being so sad, that we couldn't save this broken young woman. I even saw one game blogger who said, in effect, that the unfairness between the two, that he could be saved while having gone through, at least in what was shown, far less but committing equal or greater crimes was good storytelling. Poignant and all that. And, you know? If it had been remotely unique or original, that might have been true, but stories where "this one is too far gone to save" are a dime a dozen. There's nothing interesting in it. And, while the same could be said for being able to save her from herself, at least then we wouldn't have a story where our characters are forced to prove to her that she will just be tortured some more if she backs down. And then the story blames her for not backing down. The fact that her story gets so much praise is just perplexing to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenipher Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) I don't know why they did this, but, sadly, it worked. Plenty of people have praised the story for being so sad, that we couldn't save this broken young woman. I even saw one game blogger who said, in effect, that the unfairness between the two, that he could be saved while having gone through, at least in what was shown, far less but committing equal or greater crimes was good storytelling. Poignant and all that. And, you know? If it had been remotely unique or original, that might have been true, but stories where "this one is too far gone to save" are a dime a dozen. There's nothing interesting in it. And, while the same could be said for being able to save her from herself, at least then we wouldn't have a story where our characters are forced to prove to her that she will just be tortured some more if she backs down. And then the story blames her for not backing down. The fact that her story gets so much praise is just perplexing to me. Saving Vaylin would have been far more unique and compelling, I think. Redeeming the evil antagonist is so overdone. What I would have liked is have Arcann, the one Senya thought she could save, die beneath the rubble and then have her make a last ditch effort to save Vaylin. I don't think making Vaylin irredeemable was done for poignancy by the writers. I think it was the legion of Arcann fans that tipped the scale and I think the story is lesser for it. Edited January 12, 2019 by Xenipher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) Saving Vaylin would have been far more unique and compelling, I think. Redeeming the evil antagonist is so overdone. What I would have liked is have Arcann, the one Senya thought she could save, die beneath the rubble and then have her make a last ditch effort to save Vaylin. I don't think making Vaylin irredeemable was done for poignancy by the writers. I think it was the legion of Arcann fans that tipped the scale and I think the story is lesser for it. I wouldn't be surprised. I can understand a person wanting to save both because they're victims, or neither because they're monsters. I can see someone wanting to save her but not him, because the mind control imagery is so much clearer and because her death was so obviously part of Valkorion's plan. But I see a bunch of people that want to save Arcann but think she deserves to die and I just don't get that, but those are the voices the devs seemed to listen to, if this wasn't their plan all along. I do like the way you described his death, though. Much better than his execution on his knees that they actually gave us, I've always felt that he should have died fighting or as the direct result of the fight. What I would have liked to have seen, since this is Bioware and "you can't save everyone" is one of their hard-and-fast rules, is that we have options that allow us to save any two of them. The siblings, or the mother and one child. Or none at all, if we so choose, though I can't see myself taking that more than once. Even kill the siblings, and Senya lives but leaves, her work done and too heartbroken to stay in the Alliance. As it stands, though, I know it won't get re-written. I don't even think it should be, it's the kind of thing they should have done right in the first place, and that can be really hard to pull off, especially when you throw in the types of strains game-writers get. I do think they should allow us to bring her back, though, because as it stands, the story was thoroughly botched. A spirit companion would be decent, since we do free her, but I'd really like to see her alive again, and there are ways to do that, too. Edited January 12, 2019 by gamephil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenipher Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 As it stands, though, I know it won't get re-written. I don't even think it should be, it's the kind of thing they should have done right in the first place, and that can be really hard to pull off, especially when you throw in the types of strains game-writers get. I do think they should allow us to bring her back, though, because as it stands, the story was thoroughly botched. A spirit companion would be decent, since we do free her, but I'd really like to see her alive again, and there are ways to do that, too. I agree it shouldn't be rewritten, but perhaps going forward they could give our character a choice on who to save, like Virmire in Mass Effect. Having Vaylin back would be interesting. Perhaps they'll have the resources and reasons to do it at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 I agree it shouldn't be rewritten, but perhaps going forward they could give our character a choice on who to save, like Virmire in Mass Effect. Having Vaylin back would be interesting. Perhaps they'll have the resources and reasons to do it at some point. I would accept them simply doing better going forward. From the last interview with them, it sounds like they might. I'd mainly like Vaylin around as a token that they understand and will do better, but really, that's just the easiest way, not the only way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) Saving Vaylin would have been far more unique and compelling, I think. Redeeming the evil antagonist is so overdone. What I would have liked is have Arcann, the one Senya thought she could save, die beneath the rubble and then have her make a last ditch effort to save Vaylin. I don't think making Vaylin irredeemable was done for poignancy by the writers. I think it was the legion of Arcann fans that tipped the scale and I think the story is lesser for it. One of the writers had a thing for Arcann too but I don't know if that effected the story for KOTET. I don't know if I would have made Vaylin redeemable though done right that would have been a great story to tell. I would have liked an option for her to join up with my Inquisitor and other dark siders. Vaylin for my Darth Nox is the ideal companion. Edited January 12, 2019 by Paulsutherland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenipher Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 One of the writers had a thing for Arcann to but I don't know if that effected the story for KOTET. I don't know if I would have made Vaylin redeemable though done right that would have been a great story to tell. I would have liked an option for her to join up with my Inquisitor and other dark siders. Vaylin for my Darth Nox is the ideal companion. I would have liked her to be redeemable in the sense that she's not just a ball of hate, but can learn to care for others and maybe learn to love them. But wthout the milquetoast personality like redeemed Arcann. Just IMO about him. I understand my view isn't the only correct view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) I would have liked her to be redeemable in the sense that she's not just a ball of hate, but can learn to care for others and maybe learn to love them. But wthout the milquetoast personality like redeemed Arcann. Just IMO about him. I understand my view isn't the only correct view. That would have been a nice option. Yeah, I said it somewhere else but I don't like the Arcann change, he was so much better when he was the antagonist. I would accept them simply doing better going forward. From the last interview with them, it sounds like they might. I'd mainly like Vaylin around as a token that they understand and will do better, but really, that's just the easiest way, not the only way. Lob her into the Belsavis Mother Machine! It owes me a favour and I'm more than happy to help it wipe out the Rakata! Edited January 12, 2019 by Paulsutherland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I would have liked her to be redeemable in the sense that she's not just a ball of hate, but can learn to care for others and maybe learn to love them. But wthout the milquetoast personality like redeemed Arcann. Just IMO about him. I understand my view isn't the only correct view. I wouldn't mind Arcann's "redeemed" personality if it had been by his own hand. Yes, I see a lot of people that say that, "Oh, but he made the decision to protect his mother, that's how we know that he's GOOD," and, all right, but he had this huge pile of problems and his own trauma to work through, and instead of showing that, we get treated to Vaylin's brainwashing on Nathema in reverse. I didn't care for that, nor for the way his crimes were ignored while Vaylin just had to die for hers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I wouldn't mind Arcann's "redeemed" personality if it had been by his own hand. Yes, I see a lot of people that say that, "Oh, but he made the decision to protect his mother, that's how we know that he's GOOD," and, all right, but he had this huge pile of problems and his own trauma to work through, and instead of showing that, we get treated to Vaylin's brainwashing on Nathema in reverse. I didn't care for that, nor for the way his crimes were ignored while Vaylin just had to die for hers. Had it been something that happened over time it might have worked. As it stands I'm not sure how he'll ever find redemption in the current story. Maybe if he wants to sacrifice is life for Vaylin? - Anyway ... as Darth Malora just got thrown aside by Malgus & Acina / Vowrawn. Maybe she'll go do some Sith voodoo on Vaylin and get some payback? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellarcrusade Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I always wished Vaylin would have been added as a companion with romance options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I always wished Vaylin would have been added as a companion with romance options. Personally, I'm not interested in her as a romance option, but I'd be perfectly happy to see it if it meant they were going to fix her terrible story. Even a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Personally, I'm not interested in her as a romance option, but I'd be perfectly happy to see it if it meant they were going to fix her terrible story. Even a little bit. I'm not interested in a romance option either though I wouldn't oppose more content. I need powerful allies before I get screwed over by Lana or Theron again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 I'm not interested in a romance option either though I wouldn't oppose more content. I need powerful allies before I get screwed over by Lana or Theron again! I didn't think it was possible for Theron to betray you again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 I didn't think it was possible for Theron to betray you again. One of my characters allegiances is so messed up I expect to be betrayed at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 One of my characters allegiances is so messed up I expect to be betrayed at this point. Well, much as I would like something done with her, why would they trust Vaylin at this point? Given that she might be grateful for bringing her back/freeing her/letting her make Valk Kneel, and regardless of my feelings on the story, she does have a lot of rage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Well, much as I would like something done with her, why would they trust Vaylin at this point? Given that she might be grateful for bringing her back/freeing her/letting her make Valk Kneel, and regardless of my feelings on the story, she does have a lot of rage. None of them freaked out when Arcann joined. I'm sure they'll earn to deal with it. If they can't ... then they're welcome to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeldah_ Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) I enjoyed killing her. However a better fate would be having her trapped inside another host like Zash and Khem Val. Personally I would put Vaylin inside Quinn on my inquisitor using the same ritual. Edited January 25, 2019 by Yeldah_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 I enjoyed killing her. However a better fate would be having her trapped inside another host like Zash and Khem Val. Personally I would put Vaylin inside Quinn on my inquisitor using the same ritual. I'm too lazy for that ritual stuff. We have a machine on Belsavis that can create life and it thinks it owes us for setting it free. (assuming you did that.) I say we go to Belsavis ... tell her to fix / clone / rebuild Vaylin and boom ... problem solved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 None of them freaked out when Arcann joined. I'm sure they'll earn to deal with it. If they can't ... then they're welcome to leave. I meant your characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noyjitat Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 When the vaylin costume was later added to the cartel market I almost thought that was a hint they would allow us to bring her back in an alert or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 (edited) I meant your characters. Oh. hmmm ... that would depend on the character. She does help us strike down the Emperor, so that would be a good place to start for my Darth Nox When the vaylin costume was later added to the cartel market I almost thought that was a hint they would allow us to bring her back in an alert or something. That would have been nice I want her forehead 'things' for my Inquisitor! Edited January 26, 2019 by Paulsutherland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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