Possible Changes to the SWTOR Business Model (Not News)

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I agree. Ops and WZ passes should be brought back.

 

And they should be legacy locked.

 

Agreed. I see nothing wrong with lifting some of the over-zealous restrictions placed on F2Pers.

 

Raise the credit limitation, even if you made it 25 million, it would still limit F2P to not be able to get the crazy high priced items and wouldn't be sufficient enough for goldspammers to ply their trade with. There's a reason why they don't really do anything about creditspammers, they're paying customers. They need the limitless monetary cap.

 

Ops and WZ passes, abosultely, they bring in revenue. In fact, I'd go a step further and allow them to do 5 WZs and maybe 3 Operations a week for free.

Get rid of chat limitations.

Let them reach level 69, they still won't be able to use BIS gear that needs level 70.

Let them color coordinate their gear.

Let them use purple items, they're crap anyways.

Let them have at least 2 crew skills and let them be able to use them more than 1 at a time.

 

That still leaves storylines out of reach, that still makes end game not doable for them because they couldn't keep up without the proper gear.

 

That leaves all of end game outside their reach but so close to it that if they wanted to do it, subscribing would almost immediately open up all of end game to them very quickly.

Edited February 1, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[DarthSpuds]

you know that ESO has also sub right ? (i have 2 accounts there subs and actually the system is quite similar to SWTOR. And actually the major complaint about ESO is from f2p who have less goodies than the subs)

 

Errrr wrong.

 

The ESO Sub offers - a boost to XP, Gold, Research Times and the Craft Bag, more Bank SPace, Dye Options, and more Housing Hooks. DLC access is also included, but the main yearly content drop is a Paid For Expac that ESO now calls Chapters.

 

If you don't have a Sub you can still PvP, you can still Raid, you can still Hide Helms, use Dyes, you don't have to pay to unlock the Second Skill bar, you are not banned from using certain quality items, there's no Gold limit..

 

Trying to compare the ESO model to the SWTOR model is like comparing an Apple to a Cement Mixer.

 

All The Best

[olagatonjedi]

The success of ESO proves you wrong.

 

All The Best

The model of ESO proves its not star wars.

[Loranae]

Errrr wrong.

 

The ESO Sub offers - a boost to XP, Gold, Research Times and the Craft Bag, more Bank SPace, Dye Options, and more Housing Hooks. DLC access is also included, but the main yearly content drop is a Paid For Expac that ESO now calls Chapters.

 

If you don't have a Sub you can still PvP, you can still Raid, you can still Hide Helms, use Dyes, you don't have to pay to unlock the Second Skill bar, you are not banned from using certain quality items, there's no Gold limit..

 

Trying to compare the ESO model to the SWTOR model is like comparing an Apple to a Cement Mixer.

 

All The Best

 

          Non-ESO Plus™ Members 
Purchase DLC game packs            
No crafting storage bonus               
No free crowns                                
No extra bank space                        
No bonus gold & XP                        
No bonus to crafting                       
No extra furniture space                
No costume dyeing                        
No bonus to currency cap

 

and the subs got a lot more.

 

Also the instances are not as easy as in SWTOR, and unless you are very well geared and have a lot of time to spend grinding the mats to craft a decent armor, you will have problems to join some instances.

 

I love this modele too, but i think you can not compare those two models in fact. I was just mentionning that ESO has also a sub version.

 

and in case .... i do not want to argue or fight, just saying.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

This is an opinion, not a fact.

 

This board is read by, and authored by a tiny subset of the community.

 

A tiny subset of that think the way you think.

 

EA and Bioware are pricing things as they are for a reason. If they want your input on things, I'm sure they'll give you a call. Please wait by the phone. I'm sure it'll happen any minute now. Better hold your breath. It's exciting, no?

 

Oh didn't you know, these 5 people all have MBAs and years of experience running a game company. Of course it has to do with bringing more people to the game, it couldn't have ANYTHING to do with the fact that they just don't want to pay for the game, and are trying to prove their voodoo economics are the best thing for this game.

 

I just think it is funny, that a couple of people think that reposting and reposting somehow make a majority?

 

There has been no proof that swtor has had any year where they haven't been profitable. Not to mention I love how somebody used BDO as some example of a successful game, considering it lost its population do to its P2W store, and now can be bought on steam for like $3.

[translucentwolf]

Oh didn't you know, these 5 people all have MBAs and years of experience running a game company. Of course it has to do with bringing more people to the game, it couldn't have ANYTHING to do with the fact that they just don't want to pay for the game, and are trying to prove their voodoo economics are the best thing for this game.

 

I just think it is funny, that a couple of people think that reposting and reposting somehow make a majority?

 

There has been no proof that swtor has had any year where they haven't been profitable. Not to mention I love how somebody used BDO as some example of a successful game, considering it lost its population do to its P2W store, and now can be bought on steam for like $3.

 

An overly vocal group of questionably sane people can do some fairly incredible things. They can elect a joke, for example.

 

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0535/6917/products/idiocydemotivator.jpeg?v=1430423036

Edited February 1, 2018 by translucentwolf

[Mowermanx]

I agree this needs to be talked about. Making sub optional saved ESO and it could work for SWTOR. It not only saved it but actually made it a lot more popular and people spend a lot more cash. It also gave developers a reason to push out lots of good content in an appropriate amount of time because they are making money every time they put an expansion pass or dlc pack, and making the fans happy in the process. This could work, a big announcement of going buy to play along with a paid expansion could really set this mmo up for the future. The game is dying and everyone knows it, what would it hurt to try?

 

It should of been the way it went, but that would of been years ago when transitioning from sub only to the current F2P mode we have now.

There are way too many accounts out there now that didn't pay for them and so that opportunity is lost in my opinion.

[kodrac]

you know that ESO has also sub right ? (i have 2 accounts there subs and actually the system is quite similar to SWTOR. And actually the major complaint about ESO is from f2p who have less goodies than the subs)

 

Yep, just go to their forums and see all the free players crying about the crafting bag and house item limits. And there's no purchasable unlocks. But for $60 you can fully train your mount to max speed and max inventory and stamina. ESO's nickel and dime approach is sooo much better. The grass is always greener on the other side right?

[Rion_Starkiller]

Oh didn't you know, these 5 people all have MBAs and years of experience running a game company. Of course it has to do with bringing more people to the game, it couldn't have ANYTHING to do with the fact that they just don't want to pay for the game, and are trying to prove their voodoo economics are the best thing for this game.

 

I just think it is funny, that a couple of people think that reposting and reposting somehow make a majority?

 

There has been no proof that swtor has had any year where they haven't been profitable. Not to mention I love how somebody used BDO as some example of a successful game, considering it lost its population do to its P2W store, and now can be bought on steam for like $3.

 

I think a lot of people are trying to have a sane conversation about it. It's great water cooler talk. If anyone thinks that a forum topic on a video game will effect major change in SWTOR is a little overly optimistic.

 

And then we have you and Renata....

Edited February 1, 2018 by Rion_Starkiller

[Mowermanx]

          Non-ESO Plus™ Members 
Purchase DLC game packs            
No crafting storage bonus               
No free crowns                                
No extra bank space                        
No bonus gold & XP                        
No bonus to crafting                       
No extra furniture space                
No costume dyeing                        
No bonus to currency cap

 

and the subs got a lot more.

 

Also the instances are not as easy as in SWTOR, and unless you are very well geared and have a lot of time to spend grinding the mats to craft a decent armor, you will have problems to join some instances.

 

I love this modele too, but i think you can not compare those two models in fact. I was just mentionning that ESO has also a sub version.

 

and in case .... i do not want to argue or fight, just saying.

 

I will add for the people that were not around for the pre/post change in ESO, All these things were all added after the model change and continue to add perks to sweeten the deal for subs, including the sub amount in their store currency(which would be around 1600CC a month here) so if you're a regular user of the store, you could nearly equate that to a free sub.

They were all added as sub perks, not removed from non subs, nothing was removed unlike here.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Mowermanx

[TUXs]

It's what WoW does for it's Free trial. F2P as it is, is simply to much. Currently F2P gets all of the great class stories for free.

I don't know that what works for W0W would work here, but I do agree that giving away the entire story for free was a mistake...sadly, it's one they can't go back on now because they can't go back in time and erase the story from players.

 

I'm sorry, but giving all content for FREE seems to me to be the single most idiotic thing any company could do.

That's the thing...we're not getting enough content to pay for either. The best they can hope for right now is an occasional returning sub with their trickle of crappy content. If you quit 2-years ago, you could come back today and finish everything added to the game since then in a single DAY...that's not content worth paying $29-$59 for imo...I wish it were, but I just don't believe it is.

 

So how would you improve the state of the game? I think one thing worth trying is making a subscription more meaningful than they currently are - for example, double CXP rewards for subs, give a free pack every month, allow AC swapping...make things more convenient for subs. If you're a story player, there's no need to sub, if you're a PvPer, you don't really have a reason to either, and Ops players aren't exactly swimming in new content...so how would you encourage more subs? I think they need to focus on improving what a sub gets you...because right now, F2P get the best the game has to offer (the 1-50 stories)...subs just allow socializing (group content). I think they need to make a sub more meaningful than it is to the casual player because the lack of content we get just doesn't justify sticking around for most players.

[olagatonjedi]

That's the thing...we're not getting enough content to pay for either.

Im still happy and paying my sub. You opinion doesnt speak for everyone.

[Toraak]

I don't know that what works for W0W would work here, but I do agree that giving away the entire story for free was a mistake...sadly, it's one they can't go back on now because they can't go back in time and erase the story from players.

 

That's the thing...we're not getting enough content to pay for either. The best they can hope for right now is an occasional returning sub with their trickle of crappy content. If you quit 2-years ago, you could come back today and finish everything added to the game since then in a single DAY...that's not content worth paying $29-$59 for imo...I wish it were, but I just don't believe it is.

 

So how would you improve the state of the game? I think one thing worth trying is making a subscription more meaningful than they currently are - for example, double CXP rewards for subs, give a free pack every month, allow AC swapping...make things more convenient for subs. If you're a story player, there's no need to sub, if you're a PvPer, you don't really have a reason to either, and Ops players aren't exactly swimming in new content...so how would you encourage more subs? I think they need to focus on improving what a sub gets you...because right now, F2P get the best the game has to offer (the 1-50 stories)...subs just allow socializing (group content). I think they need to make a sub more meaningful than it is to the casual player because the lack of content we get just doesn't justify sticking around for most players.

 

Agreed for most of it. I disagree only on the AC swapping. It is really just to easy to make up the other AC and get it to max level if needed, AC swapping isn't necessary.. I actually like that idea of double CXP for subs actually. it would make it so those that believe the grind is to long can definitely speed up getting to rank 300. Another possible perk to make subbing more viable would also be double UC's, or increased chance of Crates dropping the PvP/PvE mat needed for Augments.

 

Edit: I know the PvP/PvE mat suggestion may not be liked by all, however I've noticed people on the PvP forums complaining about the mat farmers in ranked, so I thought increasing the chance of crates dropping these mats both PvP/PvE for subs may be a possible suggestion for being a subscriber.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Toraak

[TUXs]

Agreed for most of it. I disagree only on the AC swapping. It is really just to easy to make up the other AC and get it to max level if needed, AC swapping isn't necessary.. I actually like that idea of double CXP for subs actually. it would make it so those that believe the grind is to long can definitely speed up getting to rank 300. Another possible perk to make subbing more viable would also be double UC's, or increased chance of Crates dropping the PvP/PvE mat needed for Augments.

 

Edit: I know the PvP/PvE mat suggestion may not be liked by all, however I've noticed people on the PvP forums complaining about the mat farmers in ranked, so I thought increasing the chance of crates dropping these mats both PvP/PvE for subs may be a possible suggestion for being a subscriber.

All excellent suggestions!!! Don't focus too much on AC swapping, it was just an idea of a possible perk.

[Rion_Starkiller]

Im still happy and paying my sub. You opinion doesnt speak for everyone.

 

Your first post was in 8/28/2017. You still have a year or so to go before you burn through the content and get bored enough to agree with us.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Rion_Starkiller

[olagatonjedi]

Your first post was in 8/28/2017. You still have a year or so to go before you burn through the content and get bored enough to agree with us.

What does someones forum post history have to do with playing the game or experience?

 

Im surprised people still use this form of logic.

Edited February 1, 2018 by olagatonjedi

[Rion_Starkiller]

What does someones forum post history have to do with playing the game or experience?

 

Im surprised people still use this form of logic.

 

Sorry you don't like my form of logic there, new guy

I notice you haven't corrected me either.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Rion_Starkiller

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

..because right now, F2P get the best the game has to offer (the 1-50 stories)...subs just allow socializing (group content). I think they need to make a sub more meaningful than it is to the casual player because the lack of content we get just doesn't justify sticking around for most players.

 

Ya know you're absolutely right, I never really thought of it that way before. I never knew of anyone who didn't think that the Vanilla storylines of the 8 classes weren't outstandingly well done compared to any other MMO.

 

For all BW's mistakes, they absolutely nailed the Vanilla stories [1-50] in ever way. You really have to give them the credit they are due on that.

 

If F2P stopped after say Chapter 1, people would be hungering to play them through to the end. And all 8 of them is a lot of content. Those stories are worth every penny of the subscription fee alone.

 

Excellent point.

Edited February 1, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Bishop_Arts]

The majority of players do NOT come to the forums at all, because of troll posts like this. If you've ever dealt in any customer service jobs, you would know that the only people to call in/complain are the ones that are dissatisfied. Those that are satisfied don't contact anytime, via forums or otherwise.

 

Please STOP saying that the "players" don't agree with the subscription fee, when most of them don't even know that the FEW of you are even stating this nonsense.

 

If you have a gripe with the price of the game, that's fair, but please don't assume you speak for everyone.

 

I myself have been playing these MMO games for two decades now. Subscription fees are normal for games like this. Even with no content at all, server support just to have the game online and available, cost a LOT of money.

 

Bottom line, if you don't like to pay, then don't. Put your money where your mouth is and stop playing the game. The fact that you have to be a subscriber in order to even post on the forums, makes people think you're a tad hypocritical.

 

Whatever the case, stop assuming that you [overly] vocal few speak for the majority.

[Rion_Starkiller]

The majority of players do NOT come to the forums at all, because of troll posts like this. If you've ever dealt in any customer service jobs, you would know that the only people to call in/complain are the ones that are dissatisfied. Those that are satisfied don't contact anytime, via forums or otherwise.

 

Please STOP saying that the "players" don't agree with the subscription fee, when most of them don't even know that the FEW of you are even stating this nonsense.

 

If you have a gripe with the price of the game, that's fair, but please don't assume you speak for everyone.

 

I myself have been playing these MMO games for two decades now. Subscription fees are normal for games like this. Even with no content at all, server support just to have the game online and available, cost a LOT of money.

 

Bottom line, if you don't like to pay, then don't. Put your money where your mouth is and stop playing the game. The fact that you have to be a subscriber in order to even post on the forums, makes people think you're a tad hypocritical.

 

Whatever the case, stop assuming that you [overly] vocal few speak for the majority.

 

And what makes you think that you are the majority? It seems like you are using the same logic that you are railing against. Please go back to the first post in this thread to get a better feel for the discussion.

[olagatonjedi]

Sorry you don't like my form of logic there, new guy

I notice you haven't corrected me either.

Considering ive played the game since launch and am almost max achievements, i didnt feel the need to correct you. Perhaps now you understand forum posts arent related to experience or time playing.

[SaerethDL]

The majority of players do NOT come to the forums at all, because of troll posts like this. If you've ever dealt in any customer service jobs, you would know that the only people to call in/complain are the ones that are dissatisfied. Those that are satisfied don't contact anytime, via forums or otherwise.

 

Please STOP saying that the "players" don't agree with the subscription fee, when most of them don't even know that the FEW of you are even stating this nonsense.

 

If you have a gripe with the price of the game, that's fair, but please don't assume you speak for everyone.

 

I myself have been playing these MMO games for two decades now. Subscription fees are normal for games like this. Even with no content at all, server support just to have the game online and available, cost a LOT of money.

 

Bottom line, if you don't like to pay, then don't. Put your money where your mouth is and stop playing the game. The fact that you have to be a subscriber in order to even post on the forums, makes people think you're a tad hypocritical.

 

Whatever the case, stop assuming that you [overly] vocal few speak for the majority.

 

I take it you're the one who speaks for the majority then.. rofl Please stop telling people what to do, how to speak, and what to do with their money, unless you want to pay all our sub fees. We have every right to discuss any part of this game without catching flak about it. This isn't even about the money if you took the time to read, it's about what we think would help improve the game. I really get tired of the forum police trying to dictate what we discuss around here.

[translucentwolf]

I speak for every single human on earth when I say:

 

Keep calm, and play on.

 

/fin

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I take it you're the one who speaks for the majority then.. rofl Please stop telling people what to do, how to speak, and what to do with their money, unless you want to pay all our sub fees. We have every right to discuss any part of this game without catching flak about it. This isn't even about the money if you took the time to read, it's about what we think would help improve the game. I really get tired of the forum police trying to dictate what we discuss around here.

 

His point was, stop saying "we" because you don't have a "we". Even within this small amount of people who are posting here you have plenty of people saying they are against stopping the subscription fee, of which I'm one of.

 

Don't say player or player base, there's like 5 people here who want subscription fees removed, compared to the thousands of people who play this game, that doesn't even reach - 0.01 %. He never said he spoke for anyone, he said you should stop speaking for everyone. There is no way to read into his post that he is speaking for anyone, he said you don't know how 99.9% of the players feels on the matter and that is a cold stone fact.

Should you disagree with that appraisal, please quote the part of his post where he said or even alluded to the idea that he was speaking for any one.

 

We are discussing it and he's now one of those people discussing it. Anything that speaks to what other people think without anything to back that up is nothing short of a lie.

 

You have the right to your opinion, certainly, but what your and the Op of the other string are proposing is not something that everyone thinks would be good for the game, I can say that because there are posts from people here that state that they are against that asinine idea. Again, I'm one of them. I think it would be bad for the game.

 

As to not "catching flak", no, you don't have the right to that in any sort of debate. You think it's a good idea, I think it's stupid as F. That isn't personal. I don't think your a bad guy, I'm sure you honestly feel that would be the best way to go. Renata is a different case and even though you share the same view, you conduct yourself in different ways.

 

No one is telling you not to discuss, they're telling you that they either agree with you or they don't agree with you.

 

Once again. Feel free to stop paying your subscription, that's your right. You wouldn't be wrong for doing it, you wouldn't 'catch flak' for doing and no one would care that you stopped paying for the subscription. While we may be able to respect your opinion, even if we don't agree with it, it's rather hard to respect someone who isn't practicing what they preach, quite honestly I think that's where you feeling like your getting "flak" because everyone who supports the subscription can't get around the fact your stilling paying yours.

 

These are all just opinions, there are no facts here. There is conjecture. None of us know any numbers none of us have the data that BW has. I'm not putting my trust is anyone that is working off hearsay and conjecture.

 

There's no such thing as an inherently wrong opinion. Opinions aren't facts, that's why they are two different words =]

Edited February 2, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I speak for every single human on earth when I say:

 

Keep calm, and play on.

 

/fin

 

I don't know why, but as I read that in my mind I heard it in my head as Yoda's voice heh