Well, I guess Kotaku gave us their own Producer's Note. SWTOR could Shut Down

[Eshvara]

I did. I took everyone off in a gesture of Goodwill since it looks like we're nearing the end here with SWTOR.

 

By the way, in your cute little analogy, you failed to mention that the author of the article has a history of breaking BioWare news that over time has all borne out to be true.

 

And I said in my "cute little analogy" that I think they have a reliable source and it's typically isn't something you should take lightly. But until this is a proven fact with an official statement by an EAware representative, anything can happen.

You saying this game is done, is no more valid than someone saying it'll stay open forever.

 

Nobody knows, I don't, and neither do you.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Eshvara

[Tsillah]

I could name just as many wild, unfounded rumors about any number of MMOs that turned out to be garbage. Unconfirmed and anonymous sources have had Blizzard shutting WoW down, secretly working on WoW2, and so forth since before BC came out. I guess it's like Nostradamus...given a long enough timeframe, eventually he'll be right 100% of the time?

 

That's the thing about confirmation bias....something only has to happen once before that's held up as "here's what we've learned" for all time.

Confirmation bias is definitely part of it...but even then it doesn't mean it's not true.

 

I will be the first to admit I like this article because it basically echoes my thoughts. But I do not see it as proof but it did trigger me to express my thoughts on the matter. All thoughts, plausible, but nothing proven.

 

There are a lot of things though that support it and the most direct thing that bothers me is as I said: If this is all untrue, why haven't Bioware simply called it out and told people not to worry. That part doesn't sit well with me. But overall anything I've said on the matter is my opinion. Nothing actually proven. Just likely and plausible to me.

[Eshvara]

Confirmation bias is definitely part of it...but even then it doesn't mean it's not true.

 

I will be the first to admit I like this article because it basically echoes my thoughts. But I do not see it as proof but it did trigger me to express my thoughts on the matter. All thoughts, plausible, but nothing proven.

 

There are a lot of things though that support it and the most direct thing that bothers me is as I said: If this is all untrue, why haven't Bioware simply called it out and told people not to worry. That part doesn't sit well with me. But overall anything I've said on the matter is my opinion. Nothing actually proven. Just likely and plausible to me.

And this is something I agree with. It is indeed likely, but it isn't confirmation of anything as of yet.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Eshvara

[Costello]

But the important thing is that the S9 Leaderboard is now working. Provided the game is around long enough for it to close out I hope they call it the Priorities Set.

 

If there is going to be an expansion in 2018 and as I said I don't recall it but it seems both Charles and Keith have said its happening, then that is all they have to say and this report becomes one where things may have been up in the air but the game may have had a poor 2017 and a bad start to 2018 but the future is looking good.

 

You can't get a roadmap out either cause you can't be bothered or can't manage it two thirds of the way into the period its meant to cover then that makes it look like EA have come down on the side of ceasing development. Even if it weren't for this article that almost all Dev posts in 2018 have been about maintenance it hardly looks promising, the article just made it all a little more public.

[ArdeliaAgain]

In any case, what does everybody think is going to happen here?

 

Let's say for a second it's true. Let's say Eric or Keith posted something right now, saying "Yep, Jason caught us. The sunset date for SWTOR development has been set for December 2018."

 

The forums would burn down for a few days, everybody who thought it was true would have their "told you so" moment.....and then the majority of folks would go log back in and play, because their reasons for playing last week would all still be there.

 

Now let's pretend for a second they posted the opposite. "Hey guys, this is totally not true, we'll have a roadmap out for you soon".

 

The forums would burn down, everybody else would have THEIR "told you so" moment.....and then the majority would go log back in and play.

 

Either way, this is a lot of handwringing and speculation over nothing. I suppose there'd be some small fraction of the player base that would refuse to play another second of a game that they have years of investment in, but that isn't going to be developed forever. So we'd see a small trickle of folks leaving. That's different from right now?

[JennyFlynn]

 

But if I was a game developer and I would see this unrest, I wouldn't want to wait to let people know it's all nonsense and that all is fine.

 

Once they do finally comment on this I would love to know what reason they would have to let this fester if it was definitely not true. I'm open to find out such a reason but I can't come up with any reasonable reason why they haven't calmed these threads down with a simple comment other than that there is actually truth to it and they're still trying to figure out what exactly is going to happen to them and how to communicate it.

 

That's my biggest issue with this right now. If it's all conjecture and false information, why is there no response from Eric or Keith? I would think (and no, I don't have experience in this field) when there is a sudden rush of negative and false information leading to upset customers who are prepared to walk, you respond, if that information is indeed false. Even if it's a simple "Hey guys, we're aware of the article but the statements concerning SWTOR's direction are inaccurate. We're still working on the roadmap etc. and will make an official statement somewhere in the upcoming week.". Would that be a surefire guarantee to sate everyone? No, but it is a far better step to take than letting this languish in silence.

 

Personally, I would not want my players left to believe their, and my, beloved game is heading for the execution block if it weren't true.

[Lunablade]

Well the evidence that EA/BW are not caring about this game as they used to in the past is : in the serious content draught which players can see in the game, in the lack of the news and informations about the things which are in development and in the fact that none did come out from BW to confute this rumor from Kotaku about the possibility of the game going into maintenance mode before it spreads all the negativity and gives bad publicity to the game all over the internet. Edited January 25, 2018 by Lunablade

[casirabit]

So as they haven't said anything, you know for a fact that it's true?

 

I can reverse that on you as well. Do you know for a fact it isn't true? The more they ignore it the more people will believe it. It is in their best interest to address the situation, not hide it under a rug and pretend it doesn't exist.

[Holocron]

In any case, what does everybody think is going to happen here?

 

Let's say for a second it's true. Let's say Eric or Keith posted something right now, saying "Yep, Jason caught us. The sunset date for SWTOR development has been set for December 2018."

 

The forums would burn down for a few days, everybody who thought it was true would have their "told you so" moment.....and then the majority of folks would go log back in and play, because their reasons for playing last week would all still be there.

 

Now let's pretend for a second they posted the opposite. "Hey guys, this is totally not true, we'll have a roadmap out for you soon".

 

The forums would burn down, everybody else would have THEIR "told you so" moment.....and then the majority would go log back in and play.

 

Either way, this is a lot of handwringing and speculation over nothing. I suppose there'd be some small fraction of the player base that would refuse to play another second of a game that they have years of investment in, but that isn't going to be developed forever. So we'd see a small trickle of folks leaving. That's different from right now?

 

The problem is they can't announce a sunset date unless it's literally in a few days. You see, EA wants every penny, and if they announced some closure date in the future, outside of subbing, absolutely no one, and i mean no one, would spend another cent on the cartel market, which is their current cash flow.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Holocron

[Tsillah]

In any case, what does everybody think is going to happen here?

 

Let's say for a second it's true. Let's say Eric or Keith posted something right now, saying "Yep, Jason caught us. The sunset date for SWTOR development has been set for December 2018."

 

The forums would burn down for a few days, everybody who thought it was true would have their "told you so" moment.....and then the majority of folks would go log back in and play, because their reasons for playing last week would all still be there.

 

Now let's pretend for a second they posted the opposite. "Hey guys, this is totally not true, we'll have a roadmap out for you soon".

 

The forums would burn down, everybody else would have THEIR "told you so" moment.....and then the majority would go log back in and play.

 

Either way, this is a lot of handwringing and speculation over nothing. I suppose there'd be some small fraction of the player base that would refuse to play another second of a game that they have years of investment in, but that isn't going to be developed forever. So we'd see a small trickle of folks leaving. That's different from right now?

 

I don't care about majorities myself. But a majority of not a lot is even less. There have been many trickles and as long as the trickle out is bigger than the trickle coming in, the game will keep getting smaller and smaller and less likely to last another year.

 

But... I just want to know if I have something to look forward to after years of disappointment for me and nobody else. I'm currently not playing, just waiting for a ray of real hope or a dose of reality. Either is fine by me.

 

Besides, if it's true I think the trickle will be more of a stream. I think you underestimate how many people play because of what they hope might still be. When those hopes are dashed a fair amount of people will walk away. Hopefully for the rest, enough will stay to keep the doors open. I most certainly would wish that for those who remain.

 

But whether Bioware will still be there next year will also affect SWTOR. If Anthem bombs I'm pretty sure EA will feel that Bioware have outlived their usefulness for them.

[Costello]

I can reverse that on you as well. Do you know for a fact it isn't true? The more they ignore it the more people will believe it. It is in their best interest to address the situation, not hide it under a rug and pretend it doesn't exist.

 

Agreed.

 

The best thing they can do is address it. Be honest with people, if its going into maintenance mode tell people so they can make an informed decision if they want that CM pack. If the game is healthy deftly tell people that so that stupidly long grind to gear up alts is worthwhile.

 

They can come out of this with some credibility by engaging or they can look evasive and negligent by ignoring the issue.

 

I am hoping they are going to take charge of the situation cause its crazy to see Star Trek Online in a better place than Star Wars. A sad day and one I never thought I would see, least of all two months after a new Star Wars movie.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Costello

[ArdeliaAgain]

The problem is they can't announce a sunset date unless it's literally in a few days. You see, EA wants every penny, and if they announced some closure date in the future, outside of subbing, absolutely no one, and i mean no one, would spend another cent on the cartel market, which is their current cash flow.

 

That's not a true statement for me. If they announced a 12/18 sunset, I'd still have roughly the same CM spend I do now, since I'll still have whatever current goals I have that I'll want to finish (shineys, whatever) before the doors close. I can think of a number of people who'd do the same.

 

Basically, it's kind of silly to base your enjoyment of a game on what it might be in a year or two. If TOR isn't doing it for you right now today, you shouldn't be playing it today....playing something you don't enjoy on the off chance it might someday be better is silly, and just makes people miserable (although it does keep forums in business).

 

Same thing in reverse. If you're having fun today, go have fun....the fact that it might not be here next year might be a little sad, but it doesn't change what's there right now.

[Holocron]

Agreed.

 

The best thing they can do is address it. Be honest with people, if its going into maintenance mode tell people so they can make an informed decision if they want that CM pack. If the game is healthy deftly tell people that so that stupidly long grind to gear up alts is worthwhile.

 

They can come out of this with some credibility by engaging or they can look evasive and negligent by ignoring the issue.

 

Yeah but would EA let them though? Once they come clean the cartel market instantly dies. I would speculate that they will come out and say not to worry, and that there is no current plan to shut down. And then they will throw out some shiny ball announcement to get our attention drawn away from the fact that it was even considered. Which tells us the real truth about the health of the game itself.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Holocron

[translucentwolf]

The problem is they can't announce a sunset date unless it's literally in a few days. You see, EA wants every penny, and if they announced some closure date in the future, outside of subbing, absolutely no one, and i mean no one, would spend another cent on the cartel market, which is their current cash flow.

 

I don't see anything in the ToS, or elsewhere, saying this game will run for any given period of time, at all. There are no 'these coins and the stuff you spend 'em on will be good till xx' in the 'store' section of the website either.

 

If you bought yourself an "I'm with Her" bumper sticker back in October 2016, how long was that good for? You thought it'd be good for 4 years, at least. But you'd have been wrong.

 

So, yeah. Maybe the game is ending. And maybe some folks shouldn't spend a bunch of cash on the cartel market. But, that's been the case since the cartel market was started. Spending real dollars for virtual items is not a lot different than buying a bumper sticker. Looks fine today. You may feel like kicking yourself for spending money on it tomorrow.

 

Deal.

 

P.S. If you really, really, *have* to have an idea of the sunset date, keep an eye on the store. When they stop selling recurring 180 day subs, you can come back here an say the sky is falling.

Edited January 25, 2018 by translucentwolf

[Jdast]

That's my biggest issue with this right now. If it's all conjecture and false information, why is there no response from Eric or Keith? I would think (and no, I don't have experience in this field) when there is a sudden rush of negative and false information leading to upset customers who are prepared to walk, you respond, if that information is indeed false. Even if it's a simple "Hey guys, we're aware of the article but the statements concerning SWTOR's direction are inaccurate. We're still working on the roadmap etc. and will make an official statement somewhere in the upcoming week.". Would that be a surefire guarantee to sate everyone? No, but it is a far better step to take than letting this languish in silence.

 

Personally, I would not want my players left to believe their, and my, beloved game is heading for the execution block if it weren't true.

 

It depends on the severity. Granted, it was a different industry, but we often didn't correct false stories right away for two inter-related reasons:

 

1) We wanted to control the news cycle. If we responded to stories simply because they appeared, that incentivized stupid gossipy stories. It actually led to reporters knowingly pushing false narratives so that it would force a response. Say they did respond to this one, but for whatever reason didn't respond to some other one. People would immediately attempt to account for variation by saying -- See! They didn't correct the second one so it must be true.

 

2) If we knew the story wasn't true, we were happy to let it fester a bit, and when we did release the true situation -- zing the hell out of the reporter by indicating that they weren't worthy of a response and ruin their credibility.

 

Note: I'm not saying this is the case here, just saying there are, in fact reasons not to respond. In this case, I think they know those who read this forum and Reddit are die-hard fans and will ultimately make our decisions based on the Roadmap itself, regardless of whether it is released this week or next.

 

Put differently, I don't think they view the fraction of the player base that pays attention to these stories (as fun as they are) as that important -- they know if that they release a good Roadmap next week, we'll be back because we are Superfans.

 

Again, I am not saying this is the case. The converse is more likely the case; i.e., it is true. But announcing that would be stupid given fudiciary responsibilities.

 

Dasty

Edited January 25, 2018 by Jdast

[Holocron]

That's not a true statement for me. If they announced a 12/18 sunset, I'd still have roughly the same CM spend I do now, since I'll still have whatever current goals I have that I'll want to finish (shineys, whatever) before the doors close. I can think of a number of people who'd do the same.

 

Basically, it's kind of silly to base your enjoyment of a game on what it might be in a year or two. If TOR isn't doing it for you right now today, you shouldn't be playing it today....playing something you don't enjoy on the off chance it might someday be better is silly, and just makes people miserable (although it does keep forums in business).

 

Same thing in reverse. If you're having fun today, go have fun....the fact that it might not be here next year might be a little sad, but it doesn't change what's there right now.

 

You're telling me in good conscious that you would be willing to spend let's say $40 in the cartel market on 11/18 because there is some goal you want to finish in a game that ends in a month? Paaaalease! I got bridge over here to sell you.......

[Holocron]

I don't see anything in the ToS, or elsewhere, saying this game will run for any given period of time, at all. There are no 'these coins and the stuff you spend 'em on will be good till xx' in the 'store' section of the website either.

 

If you bought yourself an "I'm with Her" bumper sticker back in October 2016, how long was that good for? You thought it'd be good for 4 years, at least. But you'd have been wrong.

 

So, yeah. Maybe the game is ending. And maybe some folks shouldn't spend a bunch of cash on the cartel market. But, that's been the case since the cartel market was started. Spending real dollars for virtual items is not a lot different than buying a bumper sticker. Looks fine today. You may feel like kicking yourself for spending money on it tomorrow.

 

Deal.

 

P.S. If you really, really, *have* to have an idea of the sunset date, keep an eye on the store. When they stop selling recurring 180 day subs, you can come back here an say the sky is falling.

 

Not always true. There have been many games that have abruptly shut down. Hell, SWG was selling an entire expansion based on the old game and it literally came out a week before they dropped the NGE! They got sued for it and had to offer refunds to everyone who wanted one. They did that so they could get the sales before the controversy. Don't put it past a company to do its best to maximize profits before an issue drops, and there are countless examples across all industry segments of that exact thing.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Holocron

[Eshvara]

I can reverse that on you as well. Do you know for a fact it isn't true? The more they ignore it the more people will believe it. It is in their best interest to address the situation, not hide it under a rug and pretend it doesn't exist.

 

Come on casirabit, I've been saying that I don't know if it isn't true or if it is, until an official BW representative confirms it. I'm not on the yes or no side here, I'm on the "I don't know* side. And imo, we all should be.

I'm concerned, I'm in doubt and I'm upset with this news article, but it's not official therefore it only matters so much.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Eshvara

[Tsillah]

Put differently, I don't think they view the fraction of the player base that pays attention to these stories (as fun as they are) as that important -- they know if that they release a good Roadmap next week, we'll be back because we are Superfans.

You make some interesting and fair comments but this kinda made me raise an eyebrow. I'm still trying to believe they're going to release a good roadmap but is that a realistic expectation I wonder? The last two expansions were about accepting more than excitement for me. I'm not prepared to do that anymore now.

 

So let them bring it...I'd like to see their good roadmap.

[Eshvara]

So let them bring it...I'd like to see their good roadmap.

 

Yes please.

[Seireeni]

Somehow I'm getting the feeling that there probably has been talk about shutting the game down, but no decision made, but it's still an option. It would make sense for EAware to not comment in that case -- how would it look if they now said "No, we are not shutting down SW:TOR, these rumors are silly" and 6 months from now came back to tell us "Yeaah, about that thing we said... We are shutting it down now"? SWTOR team has never been keen on saying anything until it's absolutely sure. Whether it's gonna be shut down now or years from now, I doubt we're getting any "offical" news until they have set a date and time for pulling the plug on the servers.

[Holocron]

Somehow I'm getting the feeling that there probably has been talk about shutting the game down, but no decision made, but it's still an option. It would make sense for EAware to not comment in that case -- how would it look if they now said "No, we are not shutting down SW:TOR, these rumors are silly" and 6 months from now came back to tell us "Yeaah, about that thing we said... We are shutting it down now"? SWTOR team has never been keen on saying anything until it's absolutely sure. Whether it's gonna be shut down now or years from now, I doubt we're getting any "offical" news until they have set a date and time for pulling the plug on the servers.

 

even then, they wouldn't tell us until it was really close. (for the $)

[ArdeliaAgain]

You're telling me in good conscious that you would be willing to spend let's say $40 in the cartel market on 11/18 because there is some goal you want to finish in a game that ends in a month? Paaaalease! I got bridge over here to sell you.......

 

Yes. I spend $40 on way less enjoyable stuff all the time.

 

Wife and I go out to a movie that ends up sucking...by the time it's all said and done, that's usually 40-50 bucks. I spend $60 on games I end up not enjoying and not playing all that much sometimes. I watched a buddy drop 100 bucks on a Game of War pack that got burned up by another player within 24 hours....thankfully, that was never really my gig, but at the same time, he had it, and he enjoyed...whatever people enjoy with that kind of game.

 

So 40 bucks for a month's additional enjoyment of a game I already know I enjoy, especially when it'd be my last chance for it? Yeah, easy decision.

 

If your bridge is as good a deal, I'll take a look

[DarthVandalism]

I didn't think Destiny was worth playing, and I don't see where Anthem is a good move for Bioware. For people that like the arcade shooter style game, I guess they are okay, but Bioware is an RPG company. We expect story arcs, and characters and being able to customize who we play as players from them. This is what has attracted us to Mass Effect, Dragon Age, KoTOR, and SWTOR.

 

This is obviously EA games fault for trying to change the focus on Bioware, but really, your customer base is not going to be interested at all in Anthem. Comments in this article prove it. No one in SWTOR is excited about anthem, no one talks about it in Gen Chat. I mean... if you look at Gen chat Jawas and Trump are more exciting than Anthem I guess, but still. My point remains. People that talk about what they liked and didn't like about past bioware games, it always revolved around the characters, the story arc, and how you could customize your character and how the choices you make effect the outcome. Good or bad this is what your player base is interested in. Destiny did not deliver ANY of this, and Anthem won't either.

[ArdeliaAgain]

For that matter, it's the age of Steam and GoG....adding up all the stuff I picked up during Summer Sales or in a fit of nostalgia, that's probably 200 bucks for maybe a grand total of 10 hours of playtime right there.