Well, I guess Kotaku gave us their own Producer's Note. SWTOR could Shut Down

[DarthDymond]

On one hand I can't believe its true. Cause if it was and there are no long term plans of the game then claim this

 

 

 

is coming in 2018 is deliberately misleading the player base. Along with and though I can't say I saw it myself the belief by many that Keith has Guaranteed an expansion or the belief that Charles has guaranteed a list of returning companions in the live stream. Now in both these cases I got the feeling it was done in such a way to give the impression but never really confirm anything.

 

Now if the article is correct and there are no long term plans and it could be argued with the lack of a roadmap not any plans for next month either then all this comes across as a little dishonest. Posting things you know are not being worked on as if they were definitely being developed. Though from a personal point of view it seems Keith is doubling down on group content only with only a minor nod to story through a flashpoint which really isn't of interest to me so my best hope is someone else will come in engage with the players and start offering some unique if not class at least force user vs non force user stories.

If -- and again this is all a big "if" -- the game were to stop development or even sunset, that doesn't mean the statement was deliberately misleading. Sometimes projects just get cancelled midstream.

 

Those are currently the plans for future development, but sometimes plans change even after they've been announced, that doesn't retroactively make the announcement disingenuous or deceptive.

Edited January 25, 2018 by DarthDymond

[Andryah]

I agree it was a very different situation. I just want to stress that those developers believed they would deliver on the content they had promised. There was so dishonesty on their part.

 

I very much agree with you on this point. The studios only real failure was not understanding the cultural and mind set characteristics of their masters in Korea.

 

What happened to CoH was very sudden and drastic in the context of the player base, and not driven by hard business factors like staffing. The failure was driven by arrogance by the studio management team. In that context.. the studio did let down their player base.

 

Back to the topic... clearly EA has a lot invested in Anthem.. and as such so does Bioware. In this context.. it is absolutely no surprise to me that a side result is less assets to maintain or expand other games. But that alone does not mean SWTOR is doomed, though it will drive players who require lots of new and fresh content to other games. Then again.. aren't many MMO players pretty much playing the field of MMOs these days anyway? We are a more nomadic playerbase in the MMO market then a decade ago.. and that fact alone has been a large driver of the shift to flexible access business models and the large demise of subscription only access to MMOs.

 

Some players look at this article as the nail in the coffin for SWTOR.. and nothing will change their mind in that regard, which is fine. Other players will look at it more objectively and just continue to play what they enjoy, for as long as they enjoy doing so... which is really all any of us should do with games anyway in my view.

[Aeneas_Falco]

Can't muster up much enthusiasm for Anthem because this. And what little we know about that game so far doesn't interest me.

 

I'm in a similar boat. After the way in which Mass Effect: Andromeda was mishandled, and entirely because of Anthem's development, I'm finding it difficult to root for Anthem to succeed. Mass Effect was killed to make way for a game that likely was originally intended to be another microtransaction fest like Battlefront, and now it is having a negative impact on SWTOR. If it kills SWTOR I may move from struggling to hope it is a success for Bioware to actively hoping it is a massive flop.

[Quraswren]

SNIP....

 

The studio is very unlikely to comment on this in the depth and detail that you desire --- especially with it clear that no decision has been made or disclosed on the long term direction of this MMO.

 

Then God help them or whoever they make their wishes to.

 

A business should never be so stupid to let this kind of negativity continue to spread as it has since yesterday.

 

There is no benefit for them in letting word of mouth spread about the games possible shutting down of development combined with moving so many resources off of swtor and to anthem that is a year away. Telling gamers little will be coming to swtor in 2018 just like 2017.

 

Sure, they don't have to talk or say anything to the public but you'd have to be some really moronic business leaders to let this kind of negativity to continue.

 

Easy to explain- how long do you think content takes to make? Stuff is already in the pipeline. What we are talking about is a soft shutdown/maintenance mode where nothing NEW is made. Stuff in the pipeline is finished, and thats it...

 

Thats my take as well. Bioware mentioned long ago they are working 6 + months ahead of what we know or even might hear about.

 

They could have content from last year planned out till roughly June/July of 2018 and then little to nothing after that and we would have no clue that the cadence changed. We would move right into a development shutdown/maintenance mode and never have a clue till we were already there.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Quraswren

[giorgo]

The last time we had rumors like this (only rumors,not a legit article like this one),the dev team addressed them with this:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8905159

 

I would excpect something similar IF the said article is inaccurate (which i doupt it is).

[Icestar]

Considering that they want to sell more of the cartel market I highly doubt they will either deny or confirm if this game is left with a skeleton crew.

 

I will keep my sub up for a few more months but if there is no substantial development, like a expansion I guess it is time to call it.

[jojobanutz]

You can't white knight your way out of this one: the author of the article is the same one who reported the ME:A issues before they all were confirmed, as well as info on Dragon Age. He has credible sources in BioWare and a proven track record of being right.

 

You can't sweep that under the rug and blame the posters, no matter how hard you want to try to be SWTOR's

Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf.

You seem very invested in this Kotaku article being proved correct. And your efforts to paint people who disagree with your interpretation as 'white knights' does nothing to dispel this impression.

 

The Kotaku article contains only conjecture and quotes from unnamed 'trustworthy sources'. You seem happy to accept all this as fact, which is fair enough, that's your choice. It would be reasonable for you to extend the same courtesy to those who require somewhat more in the way of actual evidence.

 

Just sayin ...

[ExarSun]

I don't think SWTOR in particular is much on Disney's radar, out of the several titles EA has dealing with Star Wars. Their focus would be more on SW BF2 for example, with SWTOR just being small print at the bottom of the numbers list. I imagine Disney themselves are scarcely aware of the state of the game if you consider the distance (managers, liaisons etc.) from the SWTOR BW department all the way up the ladder past EA management to the big wigs of Disney.

 

All it takes is a moderately huge *****torm from SW fans, which will threaten somewhat this IP image and Disney will take action...the same way they did with SWBF2. Nobody likes bad image, well nobody except EA. All it takes is one look to see a game, which has all it needs to be successful and somehow isn't. Or rather, the desire to look. SWBF2 won't be enough for the now on the rise SW IP, not by a long shot....not if you want to milk it. Yeah, there are a lot of movie-goers, but there are a lot of gamers too. Sooner or later Disney will have to look at what games are being created and how the existing ones are being managed.

[Kurj]

You seem very invested in this Kotaku article being proved correct. And your efforts to paint people who disagree with your interpretation as 'white knights' does nothing to dispel this impression.

 

The Kotaku article contains only conjecture and quotes from unnamed 'trustworthy sources'. You seem happy to accept all this as fact, which is fair enough, that's your choice. It would be reasonable for you to extend the same courtesy to those who require somewhat more in the way of actual evidence.

 

Just sayin ...

 

I don't think that's quite accurate. The article doesn't contain conjecture. It simply says that, as of now, Bioware has not made the decision to continue developing SWTOR, i.e., they are considering putting it into maintenance mode. So, while you're correct that we haven't received any concrete information on what the decision will be, at the very least we know that we are no longer a priority for the studio. From there, as you point out, we can all draw our own conclusions, and those definitely *are* conjecture.

 

Based on the trickle of content, the lack of communication, and the increasing frequency of CM sales of old assets, I'm tending to think that we are already *in* maintenance mode, and that the "new" content we are seeing is the tail of previous development. It's just my conjecture, but I think it fits pretty well with what we've seen over the past year.

[Quraswren]

You seem very invested in this Kotaku article being proved correct. And your efforts to paint people who disagree with your interpretation as 'white knights' does nothing to dispel this impression.

 

The Kotaku article contains only conjecture and quotes from unnamed 'trustworthy sources'. You seem happy to accept all this as fact, which is fair enough, that's your choice. It would be reasonable for you to extend the same courtesy to those who require somewhat more in the way of actual evidence.

 

Just sayin ...

 

Actually, you almost have to take that article as fact.

 

The reason why is because if it's false reporting, the information is detrimental to swtor. It's heavily negative and could affect swtor in a veyr negative way. That makes the writer liable and that can lead to a lawsuit.

 

I'n this case and the reporter, I have little doubt that what was sad by his sources is indeed true. There is no one thats been in the business as I'm learn that reporter has been would fabricate what we just learned.

 

It's too harmful or swtor to simply create a lie with BS sources and report that as a lie. If damage is done to swtor and it's a lie, thats a huge loss of revenue and a he could have a lawsuit on his hands. I don't see that happened here given how he has reported on other games and been right. I've never heard of the guy till now but if you read up on a few of his articles. They end up being pretty spot on.

 

At the moment, there is no reason to not see them as factual knowing swtor, how 2017 was, the reporters past gaming articles. Too many pieces fit plus, no one wants to be sued over a game.

[ZionHalcyon]

You seem very invested in this Kotaku article being proved correct. And your efforts to paint people who disagree with your interpretation as 'white knights' does nothing to dispel this impression.

 

The Kotaku article contains only conjecture and quotes from unnamed 'trustworthy sources'. You seem happy to accept all this as fact, which is fair enough, that's your choice. It would be reasonable for you to extend the same courtesy to those who require somewhat more in the way of actual evidence.

 

Just sayin ...

 

And you seem awfully dismissive of an article by an author who broke the news on the ME:A debacle, authored a very detailed book on how one of the Dragon age games was made, done from staff interviews, and has an impeccable history on reporting on BioWare.

 

Given ALL that, you may as well be telling me "you seem very vested in 2+2=4 there, buddy." The author of that article has a stellar track record when it comes to breaking BioWare news, and he has legit sources.

 

Nothing "vested" about it. Just marveling at some people's cognitive dissonance because they can't handle the truth of the article.

[Jdast]

There is no upside to BW responding formally to this article.

 

1) Are they going to lose subscriptions and cartel market sales over the next couple days by saying nothing? Possibly. But if they release a kick-*** roadmap in the next couple weeks and deliver on content, of course people will return.

 

2) If they are going into maintenance mode formally, they have a scheduled release set for that. Allowing an article, despite the credibility of the author, to dictate that schedule sets a terrible precedent and guarantees that people will head for the hills (or in my case, to other games).

 

3) The argument that this is spreading negativity is suspect, since a lot of us read the same sites. In this thread, for example, I recognize roughly 90% of the names (many of whom, myself included have posted multiple times) and predicted accurately EXACTLY what they would say based on their posting history. We are a tiny fraction and negligible in their cost calculations.

 

My money is that BW has internalized that most of us will stay through the Theron Arc. The next Roadmap will tell us all we need to know. If it expands beyond the traitor story, that's at least a minor signal that they are giving Keith a shot. If not, the writing is on the wall. But all this sturm und drang because the same 100 people are posting in this thread is something that is at best a minor influence in their decision-making calculus.

 

As I and others have said, I'm happy playing now, but will not invest heavily into the game in terms of CM sales until there is a formal roadmap. But that is a decision I made internally PRIOR to the release of the Kotaku article. It was just common sense.

 

Dasty

Edited January 25, 2018 by Jdast

[Jadescythe]

You seem very invested in this Kotaku article being proved correct. And your efforts to paint people who disagree with your interpretation as 'white knights' does nothing to dispel this impression.

 

The Kotaku article contains only conjecture and quotes from unnamed 'trustworthy sources'. You seem happy to accept all this as fact, which is fair enough, that's your choice. It would be reasonable for you to extend the same courtesy to those who require somewhat more in the way of actual evidence.

 

Just sayin ...

 

It's extremely rare for a news article with information that isn't intended to be public to have named sources. I understand people being skeptical of the article being true or indicating SWTOR will definitely be shut down or not receive further updates at least. What I don't understand is people trying to spin the information like it isn't a huge blow if true. Siphoning resources for another game launch only indicates the same will happen in the future and that BW's belief is that SWTOR is not as important as other titles. It places doubt on any timeline given to us by the production team as resources could be moved to other projects at any time.

[Tsillah]

You seem very invested in this Kotaku article being proved correct. And your efforts to paint people who disagree with your interpretation as 'white knights' does nothing to dispel this impression.

 

The Kotaku article contains only conjecture and quotes from unnamed 'trustworthy sources'. You seem happy to accept all this as fact, which is fair enough, that's your choice. It would be reasonable for you to extend the same courtesy to those who require somewhat more in the way of actual evidence.

 

Just sayin ...

You seem rather invested in discrediting Kotaku. Now I agree that Kotaku is rather click-baity but you equally cannot prove that they are wrong in what they're saying and their track record with regards to Bioware does lend some credibility to them in this case.

 

At the same time I will also note that even though they are not providing any evidence, what they are saying is certainly not sensationalised or one-sided. And also what they are saying is perfectly in line with what we've been seeing with regards to EA and Bioware.

 

So is it true? Don't know. But for me it's a nice summary of what I already concluded myself based on what I saw happening. The one thing that they offered that was news to me if you will, was the bit about SWTOR. And that was even just a sidenote in the article.

 

True or false, it resonates with people for reasons and at least part of those reasons is what we've seen happening as of late.

 

What I need to know is what the roadmap will tell us. It's the last time I hold a hand out to Bioware and if it's a good roadmap I'll stick around to see it happen, but more to my expectation it will confirm what I think I already know and that'll be that then.

 

The Kotaku article resonates with me purely because 99% of it I already came up with myself without talking to any employees. And until Bioware tells us different it is the most plausible explanation of what's going on with Bioware and SWTOR...not to mention the roadmap.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Tsillah

[Costello]

In fairness when you check dev tracker and you see a post in the midst of this about Huttball popping too often with the opening line of 'Thats Unusual...' while the 100's of posts about this are ignored. Its hard to put a positive spin on that, true or untrue engage with you customers, the current situation brings to mind images of Nero fiddling while Rome burned.

 

Though given a light hearted looked at it, would be interesting to be in a meeting about what was done after the story broke. Well you see I was busy replying to someone saying Huttball was popping too much, you have to agree that is unusual. And yes by the very definition of random it could happen and it was only a couple of people that had reported it as opposed to all the interest the article about Anthem caused. But I thought the important thing is to get right on that Huttball issue, you don't want too many Huttball games popping giving people concerns over the long term future of the game! Huttball that is where it is and thats no mistake.

[ZionHalcyon]

There is no upside to BW responding formally to this article.

 

1) Are they going to lose subscriptions and cartel market sales over the next couple days by saying nothing? Possibly. But if they release a kick-*** roadmap in the next couple weeks and deliver on content, of course people will return.

 

2) If they are going into maintenance mode formally, they have a scheduled release set for that. Allowing an article, despite the credibility of the author, to dictate that schedule sets a terrible precedent and guarantees that people will head for the hills (or in my case, to other games).

 

3) The argument that this is spreading negativity is suspect, since a lot of us read the same sites. In this thread, for example, I recognize roughly 90% of the names and predicted accurately EXACTLY what they would say based on their posting history. We are a tiny fraction and negligible in their cost calculations.

 

My money is that BW has internalized that most of us will stay through the Theron Arc. The next Roadmap will tell us all we need to know. If it expands beyond the traitor story, that's at least a minor signal that they are giving Keith a shot. If not, the writing is on the wall. But all this sturm und drang because the same 100 people are posting in this thread is something that is at best a minor influence in their decision-making calculus.

 

As I and others have said, I'm happy playing now, but will not invest heavily into the game in terms of CM sales until there is formal roadmap. But that is a decision I made internally PRIOR to the release of the Kotaku article. It was just common sense.

 

Dasty

 

Agreed on all counts.

 

The only way they can respond is if they get a green light to stay in Development, and perhaps the article allowed BioWare to push EA on a final decision that broke favorably, and now they can go about retaining subs.

 

If that doesn't happen, no corporate benefit in them responding.

[kodrac]

Big? I think not: Keith, Eric and Charles.

 

I meant big as in all day long, important. Not how many people.

[Tsillah]

Agreed on all counts.

 

The only way they can respond is if they get a green light to stay in Development, and perhaps the article allowed BioWare to push EA on a final decision that broke favorably, and now they can go about retaining subs.

 

If that doesn't happen, no corporate benefit in them responding.

I also agree with this. I will also note that Eric has been keeping his communication very tight at the moment. Chances are that if what Kotaku wrote is true they might be in a bit of a whirlwind themselves.

 

I will say this. I've been very angry at different points and the poor communication alike. For me also I wouldn't mind if the game shut down tomorrow even. At the same time though I am sure there are some devs back there that gave it their all under difficult circumstances indeed. My gratitude is to them. And if SWTOR is no longer supported with new content or at all I do wish all the best to the entire crew particularly in finding a new job cause it's not like I hate them and want them to suffer. Not at all.

 

But I'm pretty sure the roadmap will tell me all I need to know. That's why I want to see it asap cause I want to get this over with really.

[ExarSun]

In fairness when you check dev tracker and you see a post in the midst of this about Huttball popping too often with the opening line of 'Thats Unusual...' while the 100's of posts about this are ignored. Its hard to put a positive spin on that, true or untrue engage with you customers, the current situation brings to mind images of Nero fiddling while Rome burned.

 

Though given a light hearted looked at it, would be interesting to be in a meeting about what was done after the story broke. Well you see I was busy replying to someone saying Huttball was popping too much, you have to agree that is unusual. And yes by the very definition of random it could happen and it was only a couple of people that had reported it as opposed to all the interest the article about Anthem caused. But I thought the important thing is to get right on that Huttball issue, you don't want too many Huttball games popping giving people concerns over the long term future of the game! Huttball that is where it is and thats no mistake.

 

Its dishartening for me to remember even Ben responded to such threads, while the current dev team does not. People may think thats a smart move, but only from short term business sense. There are more important things, like future products of the company....name sells games, people...name sells. At the very least, bleeding SWTOR out for Anthem will put a some people off from their new product.But i guess....even this possibility is not enough. Not that the signs weren't there the whole 2017 and the start of 2018. Dishonesty always comes back biting people in the ***...always, I've seen it before with game studios...they never learn.

People were cheering at server merges....the scene from episode 3 where the senate applauds the emperor comes to mind

Edited January 25, 2018 by ExarSun

[ZionHalcyon]

I also agree with this. I will also note that Eric has been keeping his communication very tight at the moment. Chances are that if what Kotaku wrote is true they might be in a bit of a whirlwind themselves.

 

I will say this. I've been very angry at different points and the poor communication alike. For me also I wouldn't mind if the game shut down tomorrow even. At the same time though I am sure there are some devs back there that gave it their all under difficult circumstances indeed. My gratitude is to them. And if SWTOR is no longer supported with new content or at all I do wish all the best to the entire crew particularly in finding a new job cause it's not like I hate them and want them to suffer. Not at all.

 

But I'm pretty sure the roadmap will tell me all I need to know. That's why I want to see it asap cause I want to get this over with really.

 

Can I just say, that if the game gets put in maintenance mode, as a parting gift when it starts, give unstable peacemaker lightsabers and volatile tunings to everyone, and if it is closing down, open up the cartel market the last month to every item and make them all free. Go out in a blaze of glory...

[kodrac]

3) The argument that this is spreading negativity is suspect

 

It certainly didn't take this article for these forums to be negative lol. To be honest it's par for the course around here. At best it's confirmation bias, at worst it's true.

Edited January 25, 2018 by kodrac

[Tsillah]

Can I just say, that if the game gets put in maintenance mode, as a parting gift when it starts, give unstable peacemaker lightsabers and volatile tunings to everyone, and if it is closing down, open up the cartel market the last month to every item and make them all free. Go out in a blaze of glory...

 

Heh, that might be a cool idea. Ironically it might make the game busier for that last month than it's been in years.

[Eshvara]

Which is fine for you but for some of us we been through this before. My friends and I refused to believe all the comments about SWG shutting down, even to the point we said people were making things up and then we got the news that they were shutting SWG down and we loved the game so it was shocking to us.

 

I rather not have this game shut down but I am also not going to say they aren't. Been through that once so I rather them come out and tell us what is happening then hiding in their offices and not saying anything at all. The longer they ignore this the more damage it is going to do. People are already canceling their subs. I would think they would want to stop the rumors, if is is not true and keep their subscribers.

 

I never said I refuse to believe this game could come to an end, I'm saying I refuse to go with silence as a confirmation.

I believe the kotaku post, but that doesn't mean it's directly verified or official. Until we see a post by an EA/BW representative, we don't have any proof. Nor do we know what's truly going on behind the scenes.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Eshvara

[ZionHalcyon]

Heh, that might be a cool idea. Ironically it might make the game busier for that last month than it's been in years.

 

Yup! Get people to come back and give it a proper send off.

[Eshvara]

I don't think this is true at all. People thought certain companions may not be back based on the VA for them, but BW has always said they plan to bring back all companions in some form.

 

 

 

Who is jumping the gun now? I haven't seen any signs of a full expansion coming. It could certainly explain their silence if one is in the works, but doesn't seem probably when you look at the situation as a whole.

 

 

 

It's a factor to consider, not the only factor to consider. Content releases are getting even less frequent and what is released isn't the highest quality. The biggest content drivers are those that can absorb cartel coins like strongholds and armor/weapons. The content we know they are working on is delayed as is the roadmap for the future.

 

If you're enjoying the game, I'd definitely advocate for continuing to play. Personally, I wouldn't spend money on anything you don't get an immediate return on. People continuing to spend money on the cartel market prior to the next roadmap of content are crazy imo, but subbing to play the game is still worth the money if you're active.

 

Charles Boyd already said this wasn't going to be the last expansion on a live stream, Keith said in 2017, he wasn't going to talk about the expansion coming in 2018.

Surely I don't need to say more? Be skeptical if you want to, nothing wrong with that. But this is what they said.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Eshvara