End game pvp very frustrating

[Gigabolt]

Hi, so this game lvl 70 is immensely frustrating.

The gear difference is too high between someone who is fully geared and someone with lesser gear.

Literally you cannot kill them if they are afk, the frustration is beyond severe.

 

I like this game a lot, and am frankly like a crack addict to it. But experience like this is very sobering, very frustrating indeed.

 

Please, yes there can be gear grind, but why does the difference have to be so high, i have just played maybe 11 wz's rep side malgus. Every one was a loss, four of them no kills on the enemy team. Imagine how much fun this is for some of your customers. Feeling very angry and frustrated.

[Rafiknoll]

Hi, so this game lvl 70 is immensely frustrating.

The gear difference is too high between someone who is fully geared and someone with lesser gear.

Literally you cannot kill them if they are afk, the frustration is beyond severe.

 

I like this game a lot, and am frankly like a crack addict to it. But experience like this is very sobering, very frustrating indeed.

 

Please, yes there can be gear grind, but why does the difference have to be so high, i have just played maybe 11 wz's rep side malgus. Every one was a loss, four of them no kills on the enemy team. Imagine how much fun this is for some of your customers. Feeling very angry and frustrated.

 

You just had a bad experience. There is no way that your entire team was undergeared compared to the enemy teams. What probably happened was that the mismatchmaking put all healers on their side, or you have encountered premades constantly.

The gear difference is noticed only between 230-242 against 248. Within the 230-242 boundaries you feel almost nothing, and the difference between them and 248 is, while noticed, not a sure win for the geared guys. If you didn't feel you are dealing damage you either attacked a healed/guarded target, a tank, a healer, or you play a weak class or play it wrong (Just listing ALL options that come to mind, no offense meant). Killing with low gear isn't so hard without either of the above being true.

[WhisKiz]

Are you sure it's because of gear difference?

 

I recently made this post: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=942366

 

Might give a bit more insight into balance problems at higher end pvp, no-one dying and one team getting wiped while no-one on the other dies.

 

(basically whichever teams healers die first, because its all about healers in SWTOR pvp and there being too many other defensive options to go along with it, as well as tanks that make healers invincible resulting in minutes long wet noodle fights before the healers then team finally goes down on one side.)

 

Apparently it's been like this since near launch though and i'm definitely not the first (nor will apparently be the last) to make a post on it, so the team behind SWTOR are well aware of the pvp balance or lackthereof and feel for some inane reason that it's best.

 

Even though i was having a blast with this game, the theme, the combat, the depth, i stopped playing after having just come back and am looking for something that has pvp that even has a semblance of balance in it.

 

If it's not as game breaking for you, maybe you could make multiple accounts (being free to play) and level the same class to say lvl 30 like 5 times so you can play all the balanced and fun lowbie bracket pvp for free.

Edited January 24, 2018 by WhisKiz

[Gigabolt]

You just had a bad experience. There is no way that your entire team was undergeared compared to the enemy teams. What probably happened was that the mismatchmaking put all healers on their side, or you have encountered premades constantly.

The gear difference is noticed only between 230-242 against 248. Within the 230-242 boundaries you feel almost nothing, and the difference between them and 248 is, while noticed, not a sure win for the geared guys. If you didn't feel you are dealing damage you either attacked a healed/guarded target, a tank, a healer, or you play a weak class or play it wrong (Just listing ALL options that come to mind, no offense meant). Killing with low gear isn't so hard without either of the above being true.

I don't know what you mean specifically about 230-242, with all 230 gear I do meaningless damage, enough to feel like playing a wz is utterly futile.

Now I have grinded the 1900 components for a gemini weapon, now i can hurt people again. But getting there is so depressing, those TR mat runs, you just queue and die, over and over. Get stomped, queue again.

 

Theres no need, bolster should give a base level of damage so you can actually have a chance to enjoy it.

I'm saying to bioware this experience for many players is very destructive,

[Aeneas_Falco]

While gear does matter, bolster takes you up to 242 and the gulf between 248 and other other set bonus sets (including 230) is not a wide one. It certainly isn't a wide enough leap for people n 248s to be unkillable by those in lesser gear.

 

If it feels you are doing very little damage either you've been running into Guard, teams two or more healers, or there is something off with your build or how you are playing your spec.

 

Having said that however I agree that gear shouldn't be a factor in PVP other than stat allocation. They should bolster everyone up to one level about current top tier.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Aeneas_Falco

[Gigabolt]

While gear does matter, bolster takes you up to 242 and the gulf between 248 and other other set bonus sets (including 230) is not a wide one. It certainly isn't a wide enough leap for people n 248s to be unkillable by those in lesser gear.

 

If it feels you are doing very little damage either you've been running into Guard, teams two or more healers, or there is something off with your build or how you are playing your spec.

 

Having said that however I agree that gear shouldn't be a factor in PVP other than stat allocation. They should bolster everyone up to one level about current top tier.

 

I recognize when there is tanks with healers, and accept those games are just futile, where you decide is it worth the five minutes huddled with your team next to get one more towards your weekly.

But honestly I dont think my skill level is the problem. I'm not a great player but i read my skills and have decent understanding of enemy classes. At lower gear levels the damage difference is substantial. The bolster system seems complex aswell, e.g i get new weapon piece and when i swap it, can see in wz my weapon damage actually goes down.

[Gigabolt]

Are you sure it's because of gear difference?

 

I recently made this post: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=942366

 

Might give a bit more insight into balance problems at higher end pvp, no-one dying and one team getting wiped while no-one on the other dies.

 

(basically whichever teams healers die first, because its all about healers in SWTOR pvp and there being too many other defensive options to go along with it, as well as tanks that make healers invincible resulting in minutes long wet noodle fights before the healers then team finally goes down on one side.)

 

Apparently it's been like this since near launch though and i'm definitely not the first (nor will apparently be the last) to make a post on it, so the team behind SWTOR are well aware of the pvp balance or lackthereof and feel for some inane reason that it's best.

 

Even though i was having a blast with this game, the theme, the combat, the depth, i stopped playing after having just come back and am looking for something that has pvp that even has a semblance of balance in it.

 

If it's not as game breaking for you, maybe you could make multiple accounts (being free to play) and level the same class to say lvl 30 like 5 times so you can play all the balanced and fun lowbie bracket pvp for free.

 

Yes i read your thread and thoroughly agree.

This phenomena is very common where people keep making new characters to play lower level pvp where there is higher lethality, honestly maybe its even intended by bioware.

 

Healing and tanking is far too strong at the higher levels, they have too much impact on games. Its good that healers and tanks have strong roles in wz's for variety sake and so they can enjoy their classes. but not so much.

 

There should at least be a 10% healing debuff in wz's imo.

[Wimbleton]

When bolster was 250 and everyone had the same stats, the game still played the same: some people stomped others.

 

When booster was 238 and people’s said raise it to 242, it will solve the problem, they did, no change.

 

Now missing augments bolster was increased from 150 to 208. You didn’t even notice it? Probably not, no change.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Wimbleton

[merovejec]

When bolster was 250 and everyone had the same stats, the game still played the same: some people stomped others.

 

When booster was 238 and people’s said raise it to 242, it will solve the problem, they did, no change.

 

Now missing augments bolster was increased from 150 to 208. You didn’t even notice it? Probably not, no change.

 

This ^^

[kissingaiur]

When bolster was 250 and everyone had the same stats, the game still played the same: some people stomped others.

 

When booster was 238 and people’s said raise it to 242, it will solve the problem, they did, no change.

 

Now missing augments bolster was increased from 150 to 208. You didn’t even notice it? Probably not, no change.

 

I wonder how long, if ever, players will start to realize that it might not be gear that is the issue

[Cherepk]

What frustrating is meeting pre-mades that probably using voice and meeting other team where you have 0 healers and they have at least 1.

 

Gear def makes a diff but not as much as healers.

[Elusive_Thing]

What frustrating is meeting pre-mades that probably using voice and meeting other team where you have 0 healers and they have at least 1.

 

Gear def makes a diff but not as much as healers.

Was about time we got to the ever popular premade blaming part.

[Floplag]

The frustration you are experiencing is not unique to new players, it happens to the most seasoned of us in the current game.

 

That having been said, gear isnt the issue, its never been the issue. I have played on alts still in the old 208 gear and been competitive on classes i do not know well, and I'm certainly not a top end player.

 

The only possible exception to the gear discussion would be if you are missing augments, which effectively is like missing an entire piece of gear. Even if you cant afford the top end augment get something in those slots.

 

The issue is balancing the teams, always has been with this game. One team having heals and guard where the other does not will make all the difference in the world... and i wont even bring up the "P" word here to cloud the issue.

 

There is clearly little if any match making in the current game. When it has the numbers it pops, whether they are balanced teams or not. WE simply dont appear to have the numbers to have this work effectively.

 

The implication brought up by people like the OP is something i have talked about many times, we are failing at building a community. WE have a lot of big fish in a little pond that have no interest in building anyone, helping them learn, or literally any other facet aside from farming them. You wanna kill a game, youve written the recipe.

[Cherepk]

Was about time we got to the ever popular premade blaming part.

 

I got it, you either masochist loving loosing to pre-mades or you running one.

[Banderal]

I have the experience of one match seemingly doing no damage to the person I'm attacking, and then the very next game I'm cutting through the enemy like the proverbial hot knife through butter. And on my main at least, I'm all 248 gear (not top augments though), so it's not gear. I assumed it was a couple things... one being healers/tanks in the mix as some have already said. But also, the difference between running up against someone who IS BETTER THAN I AM.

 

I know there are a lot of people in the game who know how to fight a whole lot better than I do. I know my rotation, and a few of the defensive cool down animations to stay away from. But I know there are people that know them all. They know exactly what to do to counter everything I try. I'm just not in that class... so when I fight those people, they tear me a new one.

[Foambreaker]

When bolster was 250 and everyone had the same stats, the game still played the same: some people stomped others.

 

When booster was 238 and people’s said raise it to 242, it will solve the problem, they did, no change.

 

Now missing augments bolster was increased from 150 to 208. You didn’t even notice it? Probably not, no change.

 

Fake news by omission.

 

250 was marred by bugs in the DvL code, the base fights when DvL was not in play were the best since the xpac.

[Foambreaker]

Hi, so this game lvl 70 is immensely frustrating.

The gear difference is too high between someone who is fully geared and someone with lesser gear.

Literally you cannot kill them if they are afk, the frustration is beyond severe.

 

I like this game a lot, and am frankly like a crack addict to it. But experience like this is very sobering, very frustrating indeed.

 

Please, yes there can be gear grind, but why does the difference have to be so high, i have just played maybe 11 wz's rep side malgus. Every one was a loss, four of them no kills on the enemy team. Imagine how much fun this is for some of your customers. Feeling very angry and frustrated.

 

It is more than just gear, there are many small issues that add up:

1. If you are from West Coast you should know the servers are now on East
   
2. There are many ways to tweak bolster that you would never normally think of
   
3. There are two grossly OP DPS classes
   
4. The skank/shank/tank healer combo makes it nearly impossible to make kills
   
5. Many times PuGs face partial or full premades
   
6. Something is up with Fury Maras
   
7. etc etc etc
   

 

Combined all of these things can make a new 70 feel naked and afraid.

[Trimexxx]

hate to break it to you OP

 

It's not the gear that's the problem, it is you being bad.

[Foambreaker]

hate to break it to you OP

 

It's not the gear that's the problem, it is you being bad.

 

Naïve or Merc?

[Gigabolt]

Well maybe i am super bad, but all I know is, I got my gemini mainhand now and people actually take damage. Now there is solo kill potential where before it just wasn't happening.

 

If you think it is entirely down to player skill, then thats your opinion and you're entitled to it.

I do hope bioware seriously looks at further leveling the playing field at the end game pvp.

[Aeneas_Falco]

You may want to record one of your matches and post it here.

 

Some people would give you grief no doubt, and call you bad, because nitwits can't help themselves. But the occasional idiot aside, most players here are fairly helpful. They tell you what went wrong, what you're doing wrong, and what to change to improve your gameplay experience.

[Elusive_Thing]

I got it, you either masochist loving loosing to pre-mades or you running one.

Sure.

[Going]

I wonder how long, if ever, players will start to realize that it might not be gear that is the issue

this has been the case for some time now

[WhisKiz]

Yes i read your thread and thoroughly agree.

This phenomena is very common where people keep making new characters to play lower level pvp where there is higher lethality, honestly maybe its even intended by bioware.

 

Healing and tanking is far too strong at the higher levels, they have too much impact on games. Its good that healers and tanks have strong roles in wz's for variety sake and so they can enjoy their classes. but not so much.

 

There should at least be a 10% healing debuff in wz's imo.

 

Sadly enough i'm pretty sure i saw somewhere sometime while doing pvp (maybe loading screen or after going into a WZ) that healing is already reduced by 15%.

 

This is what it's like even with their current change to the problem.

 

It's like people keep bashing their heads against the wall to the company in the forums, telling them repeatedly of this major problem and then they go change something by 1% and leave it at that.

 

That's how it feels/seems.

 

What they need to do it is suck it up and remove healing, tanking, DCD's and reduce damage by (e.g) 15% and increase base defense by (e.g) 15%.

 

No more matchmaking deciding the outcome of a match, no more wet noodling fights with invulnerable healers and teams from tanking for healers, no more winning or losing a fight being decided by who had happened to have more DCD's up at the time, and being more vulnerable than everybody else when half of them are on cd for 3min at a time *rolls eyes*

Edited January 25, 2018 by WhisKiz

[TrixxieTriss]

When bolster was 250 and everyone had the same stats, the game still played the same: some people stomped others.

 

When booster was 238 and people’s said raise it to 242, it will solve the problem, they did, no change.

 

Now missing augments bolster was increased from 150 to 208. You didn’t even notice it? Probably not, no change.

 

Pretty much ^^^

 

But I would like to add, 242 Bolster was never going to be enough to close the gear discrepancy, especially when they introduced 236 Augments at about the same time.

 

I still firmly believe that pvp should be about skill and not gear. People who need an advantage over others for it to be fun, don’t really want to pit their skills against other players.