Game Update 5.7 and Beyond

[CrazyCT]

What do you mean with 'either"? SWTOR is hardly successful at the moment.

 

Neither is it on it's knees, begging for someone to put it out it's misery, and being destroyed from within by the company that's making money from it. It's still successful enough that the plug hasn't been pulled, and new content is still being added.

[Tsillah]

Neither is it on it's knees, begging for someone to put it out it's misery, and being destroyed from within by the company that's making money from it. It's still successful enough that the plug hasn't been pulled, and new content is still being added.

Wishful thinking is of course your right.

 

But I'm pretty sure that the success of the atrocities you mentioned is far greater than that of SWTOR. If you cannot even get yourself to see that difference then I don't think that's very reasonable.

 

The recent server merges with 5 remaining server merges is not a sign of success. It's a sign of survival and it may give the game some years yet but if you take that and call it successful that's really just laughable.

 

Now I do hope that SWTOR survives but I also want it to improve. As I said various times I really like the Copero FP for example, but the majority of content that was added in 2017 was not successful. It failed to impress. Uprisings are all but dead, Iokath dailies were a strange design choice that very few people actually seem to do. I hope the new map for GSF helped, the new warzone has had very mixed reviews. And I think that the decision for team ranked mats was deplorable and GC is a mess that needs to be cut out of this game and a new reward system has to be created from scratch.

 

So no, I really think your comparison holds no water. Besides, SWTOR would be more akin to a band who started with a great album and then progressively made worse albums as it went along. Nickelback never made anything great in my view so also there the comparison fails.

 

SWTOR still lives but the game needs help. Whether or not Bioware is able and willing to give it the attention it needs to be a solid game experience again, particularly for the longer term, that remains to be seen. I'm no prophet but my expectation or prediction is that if the next expansion doesn't deliver, the game will continue to lose more players than it can afford and the final march will have been set in. I would be surprised today if this game still has more than 100k active subs.

Edited January 14, 2018 by Tsillah

[Jesseriah]

Well, guys.

Let me get one thing clear: I was one of the guys on the forum who complained about BWs lack of ability to bring us back the real effort they had for this game back then (SoR times for example) and about their skeleton crew maintaining this game atm (i think its clear to everyone that their staff is small).

 

But as i get to think more often about the current state of the game and the upcoming films/trilogy i really guess theyre preparing for a new game set in the current timeline with better engine/grafics/story.

 

Some of you may believe that BW will bring another expansion in 2018 and X content, but i dont believe that anymore. I guess this game is in maintenance indeed and they'll bring a little content here and there but nothing big, and after the new game is ready to be announced they will shut down SWTOR (same with SWG).

 

I know i could be wrong. I have no proof for that. But i guess im not far from truth.

[olagatonjedi]

Well that's false.

 

The "norm" was Individual Class Stories with Voice Acting.

That became Faction Stories with Voice Acting.

Then Mono-Story with Voice Acting.

And finally we are at No Real Story, with no Voice Acting.

Of course, I expected someone would attempt to pick and choose specifics to try to make a point, when in general, my statement rings true on a larger scale.

 

The game has individual class stories with voice acting. Feel free to show me where BW promised to continue having voice acting with individualized class stories through the entire duration of the game? Or did you just interpret it wrong? I do know that on the original box, it states that the game is dynamic and will involve changes throughout the life of the game. Perhaps a piece of information you neglected to read or understand thoroughly.

 

Once upon a time we got full raids, put in the game complete. Sometimes two at a time (DF/DP, Ravagers/ToS). We can't even get one complete raid a year after they started promising it.

Content is still being released, and attention is still being given to all areas of the game. Change is imminent in all aspects. The market isn't the same as it used to be, and the demographics aren't the same either. People, in general (in life, etc) seek instant gratification and want things at a faster pace. Many very popular markets are understanding this, so they have either made changes to their system, or are at least entertaining the idea of changing things to cater to the new generations. SWTOR appears to have followed suit and is trying to roll out content at shorter intervals to allow the game to have new content much more frequently - a progressive expansion, so to speak.

 

i remember back in the day so many people whining (including myself) about the monthly chapters...& now it doesn't look that bad anymore.

Yep, it's all about perspective, and the understanding that many people don't realize how good something is until they don't have it anymore.

Edited January 14, 2018 by olagatonjedi

[Quraswren]

this! lmao.

i remember back in the day so many people whining (including myself) about the monthly chapters...& now it doesn't look that bad anymore.

 

Oh, I'm quite happy that garbage is over and done with. Those crappy chapters are not made better because other parts of the game content release cadence remain crappy as well.

[PennyAnn]

That's complete and utter nonsense and I'll prove it to you. This is directly from the patch notes listing on this website:

 

Dec. 2011 Game Release

Apr. 2013 RotHC

Dec. 2014 SoR

Oct. 2015 KotFE

Dec. 2016 KotET

 

As you see FACTUALLY all expansions except KotFE took MORE than a full year to bring out. What you say here is therefore the exact opposite of the truth, so congratulations.

 

Reworded: More than a full calendar year is passing without an expansion such that your date list (which includes every calendar year's date) will skip from 2016 to 2018. Since they started releasing expansions, you see one in 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016... and nothing in 2017. So, when you list the years that got expansions, for the first time in the game's history since they started releasing expansions, you will skip a year in the sequence.

 

I think that's my only point, and trying to say that the game is in a good spot is more the exact opposite of the truth than my miswording "no expansion in a somewhat yearly cadence". Nitpick me all you like (as you seem to love to do to people), but the fact is the sequence of years you list skips 2017. FACTUALLY the game is not in good shape. I've seen you agree all over the place (including a couple posts down where you move on to nitpick someone else), but thanks for making it about me (and the others posting here) and not the subject at hand.

Edited January 14, 2018 by PennyAnn

[olagatonjedi]

Reworded: More than a full calendar year is passing without an expansion such that your date list (which includes every calendar year's date) will skip from 2016 to 2018. Since they started releasing expansions, you see one in 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016... and nothing in 2017. So, when you list the years that got expansions, for the first time in the game's history since they started releasing expansions, you will skip a year in the sequence.

 

I think that's my only point, and trying to say that the game is in a good spot is more the exact opposite of the truth than my miswording "no expansion in a somewhat yearly cadence". Nitpick me all you like (as you seem to love to do to people), but the fact is the sequence of years you list skips 2017. FACTUALLY the game is not in good shape. I've seen you agree all over the place (including a couple posts down where you move on to nitpick someone else), but thanks for making it about me (and the others posting here) and not the subject at hand.

Between RotHC and SOR there is 20 months. That would allow until July of 2018 before they hit the 20th month, not that its a date set in stone by them either.

 

As usual, its not surprising to see overexaggeration from the community about the "lack of content" or complaints about how slow content is coming out when nothing in their schedule is anything out of the ordinary.

 

Typical hot take anger reactions without performing any research at all.

[Quraswren]

SNIP....

 

Typical hot take anger reactions without performing any research at all.

 

Typical. Thinking a terrible content cadence since back then all the way up till now is somehow something anyone needs to over-exaggerate on when no matter how you look at it (than or now) it's still a terrible content release cadence.

 

It's was a lack of content back then just as it is now.

Edited January 14, 2018 by Quraswren

[Tsillah]

Reworded: More than a full calendar year is passing without an expansion such that your date list (which includes every calendar year's date) will skip from 2016 to 2018. Since they started releasing expansions, you see one in 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016... and nothing in 2017. So, when you list the years that got expansions, for the first time in the game's history since they started releasing expansions, you will skip a year in the sequence.

 

I think that's my only point, and trying to say that the game is in a good spot is more the exact opposite of the truth than my miswording "no expansion in a somewhat yearly cadence". Nitpick me all you like (as you seem to love to do to people), but the fact is the sequence of years you list skips 2017. FACTUALLY the game is not in good shape. I've seen you agree all over the place (including a couple posts down where you move on to nitpick someone else), but thanks for making it about me (and the others posting here) and not the subject at hand.

Well it's not much of a point even then.

 

The fact that it skipped the year 2017 as it did 2012 is completely and utterly meaningless. It's just something that happened that way but all but one expansion took over a year to come out after the previous one. So if one happens to come out in december like 5.0 did, then clearly the only logical conclusion can be that it's actually normal that 6.0 would come in 2018.

 

And yes I agree that the game is not doing well and if people actually said what they meant I wouldn't have to "nitpick". But this is not nitpicking. What you wrote was flat out wrong and what you now say you actually meant is flat out meaningless.

 

So either way your point is ridiculous. This is not a car brand in the US that skips a production year. This is game that brings out expansions that take over a year to make usually and at some point it will skip a year because it will have to.

 

Just stick to actual arguments if you could. There are plenty of real and meaningful arguments out there already.

[PennyAnn]

Between RotHC and SOR there is 20 months. That would allow until July of 2018 before they hit the 20th month, not that its a date set in stone by them either.

 

As usual, its not surprising to see overexaggeration from the community about the "lack of content" or complaints about how slow content is coming out when nothing in their schedule is anything out of the ordinary.

 

Typical hot take anger reactions without performing any research at all.

 

I was there for both RotHC and SOR and I realize how much time there was between them. It was such a significant gap that they promised we'd never have to wait that long again. That didn't turn out to be true, of course... but regardless - there was an expansion release in 2013 (RotHC) and there was one in 2014 (SOR). There was none in 2017, and so far no announcement of plans for 2018. We still have time for 2018, but the silence about any/all plans beyond continuing to trickle in the raid bosses one at a time, return companions to only two classes, and another quick story hit in the form of yet another flashpoint is not going to be enough to sustain this player's interest. And I'm pretty sure I'm not alone by a large margin.

 

I'm not angry at all. I'm concerned about the state of the game, for sure. But I'm not up in arms about it. If this game shuts down, then it shuts down. It's a video game and not something integral to my life. Even so, I've played it since Beta and paid a non-stop subscription for over 6 years now. I've spent thousands of dollars in support of this game. I care because I don't want to see it continue to flounder and lose players. Anyone trying to state that this game is not losing players is just denying the reality. You can deny the reality if you like, but it's there whether you deny it or not. I've seen how this game has gone for myself, and I feel like right now it's in a bad place. I'm far from the only one that feels that way. That's not "overexaggeration" as you describe it. And you can keep saying things are "not out of the ordinary" if you like, but that doesn't make it true.

 

I highly suspect that with the declining population that has resulted in the reduction down to only 5 servers worldwide, if they had an expansion in the works that was set to be released in the next 6 months (which would hit your July 2018 date), it would have been at least hinted at. We'll see if anything is stated about it in the road map. If they continue to say nothing about an upcoming expansion or significant injection of content while people are getting bored and leaving in larger quantity than is healthy for the game then it's a marketing failure that didn't need to happen. Just mention of plans for an expansion would do so much good for population retention and morale. But there isn't any such mention. If that continues, then all the "research" in the world won't change the bleak outlook on SWTOR's future.

 

Regardless of the future, please don't preach SWTOR history to me like I wasn't here for every second of it. The coming year will tell the truth of the tale. I'm willing to wait to see which one of us guessed correctly at the direction that the game is heading. If you are right instead of me, no one will be happier about it than I will - because it will mean that the game is still around for people to play, and that they got through the utterly lean year of 2017 and managed to put it back on the tracks.

[PennyAnn]

Well it's not much of a point even then.

 

The fact that it skipped the year 2017 as it did 2012 is completely and utterly meaningless. It's just something that happened that way but all but one expansion took over a year to come out after the previous one. So if one happens to come out in december like 5.0 did, then clearly the only logical conclusion can be that it's actually normal that 6.0 would come in 2018.

 

And yes I agree that the game is not doing well and if people actually said what they meant I wouldn't have to "nitpick". But this is not nitpicking. What you wrote was flat out wrong and what you now say you actually meant is flat out meaningless.

 

So either way your point is ridiculous. This is not a car brand in the US that skips a production year. This is game that brings out expansions that take over a year to make usually and at some point it will skip a year because it will have to.

 

Just stick to actual arguments if you could. There are plenty of real and meaningful arguments out there already.

 

You have my full permission to never read or respond to anything I ever write again if you find me ridiculous. I'm okay with that. I also find your need to put such a fine point on every little detail of every person in the forums posts tedious and nitpicky, but I'm not going to tell you how to post the way you have to me. Edited to add: Everyone is here trying to say what they mean, just because they don't succeed at every attempt to communicate does not mean you need to nitpick.

 

I'd prefer that the discussion stay focused on the problems with the game and solutions that might solve them - not on the personal posting style of each individual as someone else deems appropriate/not as if it's their right/responsibility/job to do so. I attempted to take your criticism and correct what I wrote, your choice to find me ridiculous is just that - your choice. I'm not bothered either way.

 

But just because you find something meaningless does not mean that it has no meaning to others. You do not have the right to ascribe meaning to anyone but yourself. I don't find the fact that we skipped 2017 without an expansion meaningless. We skipped 2012 because the game was putting out its very first expansion after being released in 2011. I think the comparison is not as equitable as you make it, but either way 2018 without an expansion to this game would be dire. I think the longer they take to even hint at it the more disservice they do to themselves. The road map will hopefully give any reason to feel like things are changing for the better. We will see.

Edited January 14, 2018 by PennyAnn

[olagatonjedi]

Typical. Thinking a terrible content cadence since back then all the way up till now is somehow something anyone needs to over-exaggerate on when no matter how you look at it (than or now) it's still a terrible content release cadence.

 

It's was a lack of content back then just as it is now.

What lack of content? My gameplay experience has been just fine, and many others have said the same.

[Quraswren]

What lack of content? My gameplay experience has been just fine, and many others have said the same.

 

And many more have said different and actually left the game. Way more than stayed if we are to believe what bioware said initial numbers were to what is a pretty good guess now.

 

Your experience is clearly not like the majority that are not willing to take less as some amazing performance on bioware part.

[olagatonjedi]

And many more have said different and actually left the game. Way more than stayed if we are to believe what bioware said initial numbers were to what is a pretty good guess now.

 

Your experience is clearly not like the majority that are not willing to take less as some amazing performance on bioware part.

And we are back to overexaggerated expectations. Compared to many mmos, the content isnt lacking. Is it top tier output? No, but they are still putting content out at a comparable rate, as i have mentioned in another thread.

[DuchessKristania]

And many more have said different and actually left the game. Way more than stayed if we are to believe what bioware said initial numbers were to what is a pretty good guess now.

 

Your experience is clearly not like the majority that are not willing to take less as some amazing performance on bioware part.

 

I had to take a break before I even finished a class story, not by choice but because someone accidentally knocked my computer off of the table. Couldn't play for a long time, when I got back there was a ton of new stuff, but even so, I'm having to dig to find new things to run. Even with my on and off sub it does seem like there's been a major drop in new content, aside from tweaking minor things and offering snippets of story, or an op. I'm *hoping* that it's been a matter of restructuring and laying ground work after Kieth took over.

 

That's just a hope though, maybe I'll be right, in which case YAY! Maybe I'll be wrong and that's much less happy times excitement, lol. I hope I'm right, more fun stuff to do is good, and being right is usually a pleasant thing.

[denavin]

Please, no more flashpoints for a while. :{

 

Agreed No more Flashpoints as Story Missions. PLEASE.

[DuchessKristania]

Agreed No more Flashpoints as Story Missions. PLEASE.

 

I don't mind having new FPs, just not as the only blips of story that we get. It just feels like covering their bases so they can say "we continued the story" without really adding story content. It's technically there, but not remotely enough to be satisfying. I think they are trying to find a balance but they haven't found the right one yet.

[denavin]

I don't mind having new FPs, just not as the only blips of story that we get. It just feels like covering their bases so they can say "we continued the story" without really adding story content. It's technically there, but not remotely enough to be satisfying. I think they are trying to find a balance but they haven't found the right one yet.

 

New Flashpoints are great, but NOT as the only content and passed off as a story mission. I would rather have a STORY to play with multiple missions to complete the story. There can even be Flashpoints at a SIDE mission to the story but not as the story or as the only story mission.

 

Flashpoints are Side activity's not a cheap way to make down and dirty story missions.

[DzastinBiberi]

I dont mind new FP's, it's better than nothing and I hope that Keith, Eric or whoever will read the next few lines.

 

When the latest FP dropped, Traitor Among The Chiss, it was IMPOSSIBLE to get past the first boss on Veteran mode with 4 dps players. The amount and time speed of dropping adds over and over again in that FP was insane. Boss couldnt be killed 'cause there were like 20 adds already shooting us dead and more of them kept coming.

 

We've used all HP pods, on my merc I've used every defensive skill, heck I even used a medpac and there was no way of any of us surviving that and killing the boss. After third wipe, we gave up, coming to conclusion that devs didnt even bother trying to do that FP on Veteran mode with 4 DPS.

 

Note that this was when FP came out, before the nerfs on the boss and the whole FP. If I remember it right, we didnt had the full 70 lvl group, 'cause my merc was 65ish level.

 

But still...why would someone put that FP in GF for all levels and not even bother to test it?

It doesnt take long to get to the first boss.

 

Test your content before you release it, 'cause we're paying you for it and you're not doing your job properly.

 

If you go to the store and buy a milk that's not been tested or any other product, you can have real health problems, 'cause someone was like "meh, testing or not, I'm gonna get my paycheck anyway".

 

I've been a paying sub since 2014 and this isnt the first time that something was released and it wasnt tested like at all. How can one international multimilion company like EA/BioWare afford to get so low?

 

And dont get me that white knight answer "it's a skeleton crew bruh", because I dont care, like they dont care how I've earned my money to pay for a sub, I dont care if there's a half brained hamster in a wheelchair running this game or full 30 ppl godlike coder's squad.

 

Get your sith together or you'll lose even more subs over time, because, lets be honest here, Ben The MMO Killa' cutted the subs in half with his "smart" idea's. Listen to your players for once, they are the one's who play and pay for this game.

 

You may not like this post and I couldnt care less, but it's the hard truth.

 

Peace out.

Edited January 15, 2018 by DzastinBiberi

[DuchessKristania]

New Flashpoints are great, but NOT as the only content and passed off as a story mission. I would rather have a STORY to play with multiple missions to complete the story. There can even be Flashpoints at a SIDE mission to the story but not as the story or as the only story mission.

 

Flashpoints are Side activity's not a cheap way to make down and dirty story missions.

 

I totally agree with you on this. I like fps, I don't like them being the substitute for story. I wouldn't mind them being included in the story, but right now, snippets of story are included in the fp. If they want the blend the two, cool. They did it in SoR, but the fps were a part of the story. What they've been doing lately is have the story be a small part of the fp. I don't like that.

[ExarSun]

I totally agree with you on this. I like fps, I don't like them being the substitute for story. I wouldn't mind them being included in the story, but right now, snippets of story are included in the fp. If they want the blend the two, cool. They did it in SoR, but the fps were a part of the story. What they've been doing lately is have the story be a small part of the fp. I don't like that.

 

Fully agree. Not to mention the story is not as heavy or good, like Black Talon or Revan's flashpoints in Imp/Pub side and Forged Alliances.

[ZoIushka]

Class specific...hmm, that's a little disappointing. I don't care much about Corso because I doubt he'd like my sw much. My smuggler could barely stand him as it was, but it would've been cool to recruit Risha just so she could be reunited with Vette.

 

Ohwell, it's no big loss, I suppose.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I totally agree with you on this. I like fps, I don't like them being the substitute for story. I wouldn't mind them being included in the story, but right now, snippets of story are included in the fp. If they want the blend the two, cool. They did it in SoR, but the fps were a part of the story. What they've been doing lately is have the story be a small part of the fp. I don't like that.

 

I agree. I really love Copero (now that they lowered the boss HP a little) and I would have liked Umbara if not for the lag. I do NOT like them being the substitutes for the story.

 

In the SoR Prelude/Forged Alliances we do have those four flashpoints but there are also a ton of cut scenes separate from those that advance the story. With Copero and Umbara we've had like 5 minutes of story and that's it.

[Damask_Rose]

I agree. I really love Copero (now that they lowered the boss HP a little) and I would have liked Umbara if not for the lag. I do NOT like them being the substitutes for the story.

 

In the SoR Prelude/Forged Alliances we do have those four flashpoints but there are also a ton of cut scenes separate from those that advance the story. With Copero and Umbara we've had like 5 minutes of story and that's it.

 

Going back and playing through the SoR intro flashpoints after doing Umbara & Copero really highlights how much more story the older flashpoints had, and that's only counting cut-scenes contained in the flashpoints.

[ivanhedgehog]

This is an important part of the equation for me too. Please let class-specific returns give us our original companions back, not a copy.

 

I cant help but think the reason we are or are not getting companions back and the "quality" of the interactions is being dictated by the studios financial demands. story will always take a back seat with biowares/EA current management. They are doing the smallest, cheapest and easiest dribble of content to get people to hang around. That isnt going to change any time soon.