I think the writers are going to kill Theron

[feylyndiira]

You should probably chill out and not seek out threads you know you wont like just to whine that people are talking and speculating about things you don't want them to talk and speculate about. Save yourself a headache.

 

I don't mind if it's actual logical speculations and some good back-and-forth about theories and such. (Which, yes this thread does have and I've been enjoying reading those bits.) But it seems everywhere I go: the forums here, Twitter, FB....it's turned into rampant crazy fangirl-rage over his hair and endless "they're going to kill him because the devs hate us all!!!" "I'm going to quit the game if they don't change his hair!!!1!!!" BS. What's wrong with just sitting back and letting the story play out, and THEN getting all ragey if it doesn't turn out the way you want? (Not saying you in particular are).

I think my fear is that the devs/writers may cave to all this insanity and try to pull last-minute changes, and in the process, totally **** up the story. it wouldn't be the first time it's happened, after all (KotET).

[Seireeni]

I don't mind if it's actual logical speculations and some good back-and-forth about theories and such. (Which, yes this thread does have and I've been enjoying reading those bits.) But it seems everywhere I go: the forums here, Twitter, FB....it's turned into rampant crazy fangirl-rage over his hair and endless "they're going to kill him because the devs hate us all!!!" "I'm going to quit the game if they don't change his hair!!!1!!!" BS. What's wrong with just sitting back and letting the story play out, and THEN getting all ragey if it doesn't turn out the way you want? (Not saying you in particular are).

I think my fear is that the devs/writers may cave to all this insanity and try to pull last-minute changes, and in the process, totally **** up the story. it wouldn't be the first time it's happened, after all (KotET).

 

I do dislike the conspiracy theories, too, but there might be some people who truly don't really care about the game or the current story that much and only play because they have some emotional connection to a couple of characters. I've never experienced that when it comes to video games, but there are a couple of tv-series I'd quit watching if a certain character was written off of it, so I can kind of understand it.

[theinjuredtroop]

I am really hoping that Theron is being blackmailed by this Order or else it takes away the entire point of our character being a leader of a Super power with possibly the best navy in the entire galaxy. I really do not see why Theron would risk so much when he could just say;

 

"Hey boss, there is this faction that seems to be evil or something and I was planning on this elaborate betrayal where I bring the three super powers in the galaxy to war, and at some point I would reveal myself as the traitor but instead of just killing you when I have the chance, I'm just going to pull off a bunch of Doctor Evils and not actually ensure you die. Also there may be a chance where I got my own father killed. But instead of all that, I just decided to just tell you so you could decide whether or not you want to obliterate them with the eternal fleet or demand they surrender."

 

Of course he could actually be against the Alliance, his reasons are somewhat reasonable, his presentation is just way off though, heck I thought the Alliance was just going to be temporary myself.

[Eshvara]

 

If they wanted to move away from the focus on Lana and Theron, what would make sense for them to do is to introduce a cast of new active companions and supporting characters and make Lana and Theron just two of many and make them sometimes involved but not always. When you think of a TV series like Star Trek TNG, there was a large cast of characters and the focus shifted between them. Not every character was in every episode and they didn't have to be. Lana and Theron can be doing other things, our character can go on some lengthy mission with some other companions, etc...I can't see their plan as it stands. No old companions have become active again after being recruited this year (including the ones previously recruited) no new companions have been introduced, the supporting characters Jace and Acina just disappeared from the story after their chapter, it's still just Theron (as the supposed bad guy) and Lana. Are we to be stuck with just Lana forever? Did they plan that far ahead? Are they making this up as they go? It sure seems that way from the nonsensical and disjointed nature of this years story bits.

 

Exactly.

[Seireeni]

If they wanted to move away from the focus on Lana and Theron, what would make sense for them to do is to introduce a cast of new active companions and supporting characters and make Lana and Theron just two of many and make them sometimes involved but not always. When you think of a TV series like Star Trek TNG, there was a large cast of characters and the focus shifted between them. Not every character was in every episode and they didn't have to be. Lana and Theron can be doing other things, our character can go on some lengthy mission with some other companions, etc...I can't see their plan as it stands. No old companions have become active again after being recruited this year (including the ones previously recruited) no new companions have been introduced, the supporting characters Jace and Acina just disappeared from the story after their chapter, it's still just Theron (as the supposed bad guy) and Lana. Are we to be stuck with just Lana forever? Did they plan that far ahead? Are they making this up as they go? It sure seems that way from the nonsensical and disjointed nature of this years story bits.

 

Maybe I'm too optimistic (a mindset that seems to be as rare as a unicorn on these forums ), but I'm hoping that there's gonna be an expansion next year, and they're either gonna use more companions than just Lana or introduce new companions (maybe a new female LI to go along with the Arcann romance?). After all, with Theron demoted to a villain, they should be room for other companions to take a more active role.

[Jdast]

Edit: forgot to add that I don't want it to be a kill option, he's either dead or alive. The thought of some 11 year old boy stabbing him for the lulz makes me :mad::mad:

 

Ralei,

 

What I don't understand about your comment (and other people's) is why some of you are so against choices. As I mentioned (in my first among now three brilliant posts ) is that from an RP perspective, my characters run the gamut from love interest, to former love interest (once an original companion came back), to thankful for his efforts but nothing romantic, to indifferent, to loathing because he's Republic, to loathing because my characters feel betrayed regardless of his intentions, to loathing because my character is bonkers.

 

I hardly think of myself as some 11 year-old edge lord (new term to me, but I get it). I can completely see my range of characters embracing a range of options. Not sure how my RP-ing with Theron impacts your interactions.

 

TL-DR: Options are good, particularly when they don't impact you.

 

Hugs,

 

Dasty

Edited December 10, 2017 by Jdast

[JennyFlynn]

Ralei,

 

What I don't understand about your comment (and other people's) is why some of you are so against choices. As I mentioned (in my first among now three brilliant posts) is that from an RP perspective, my characters run the gamut from love interest, to former love interest (once an original companion came back), to indifferent, to loathing because he's Republic, to loathing because my characters feel betrayed regardless of his intentions.

 

I hardly think of myself as some 11 year-old edge lord (new term to me, but I get it). I can completely see my range of characters embracing a range of options. Not sure how my RP-ing with Theron impacts your interactions.

 

TL-DR: Options are good, particularly when they don't impact you.

 

Hugs,

 

Dasty

I'm not sure if it's a matter of being against choice. I stand by Ralei, not because I don't want people to have choices though.

 

First of all, the idea of a beloved character I feel very attached to being killed 'for fun' or 'because I can lols', is upsetting. Theron's more than that, he deserves better than that. On an emotional level that doesn't sit well with me but each to their own in that respect.

 

Second, kill-option characters tend to fade into the background and become mostly obsolete in the story moving forward. The mere thought that *my* Theron will no longer have much of an active part in *my* story because Bioware allowed others to kill him (potentially for fun), is vexing.

 

Now if we could be certain that Theron's story-presence will remain strong as it has been, even if he returns with a kill-option then by all means, let people do as they wish even if it's just for fun. But the idea of losing his presence at the expense of others having a choice/option to kill him, yeah I'm not really okay with that. It kind of leaves people like me without a choice, you know? We can spare him but he'll fade into the background regardless to a point where he may as well be dead.

 

Your RP-ing with Theron, your rationale for sparing or killing him with YOUR characters doesn't directly affect me no. However, the result of players, in general, killing him (if BW carries on as they have been), that most definitely DOES impact me.

 

My thoughts anyways.

[Eshvara]

I don't see them killing him . If there is any issue with the voice actor , they could easely make him 'Missing in action' ..'went to look for Mommy'"..'Location Unknown'"..'He crashed another ship somewhere in Zimbabwe'"..

 

But killing him ? Nah .

 

What I find odd is how Zenith and Theron have the same voice actor, but Zenith isn't back yet. I do see them killing him as it has been too long. With an option of course. I don't think it's out of character at all for Theron to turn against you, if you want to use the super weapon for yourself. Especially not after all he has gone through to get it out of the hands of evil.

[Damask_Rose]

I just want this to make sense, whether he dies or not. And wrap up.... I'm getting tired of this.

 

If the writers had always planned for him to die at the end, then I want him to go out a hero. I don't think it's terrible to kill off your characters, stories have to evolve. I just hope they do him justice. I don't want him to be sincerely fighting the commander, because that doesn't make any sense to the character I know and everything he's been up until now. It would feel really ****** and I'd probably unsub.

 

If he dies, he needs to die in character doing what I would expect him to - fighting for what he cared about by doing the right thing. He's either got to be controlled or trying to protect the player somehow. I don't WANT him dead, but if they've decided they want to move on from the Lana and Theron show, then they better let him go out with a bang and introduce interesting people to replace him. And also let me get rid of Lana. I don't want her around if Theron's gone.

 

If they bring back someone like Ravage or Scourge as playersexual LI's that help drive the story forward, I'd be like .... "Theron who?" But it's going to be hard, Theron's VA and writing make him so endearing.

 

edit: forgot to add that I don't want it to be a kill option, he's either dead or alive. The thought of some 11 year old boy stabbing him for the lulz makes me :mad::mad:

 

If they kill him, I hope they treat his death with respect. I want my character to grieve. It will be thoroughly obnoxious if Theron gets killed and his lover acts like he barely knew him and just shout's "NEXT!"

 

If they wanted to move away from the focus on Lana and Theron, what would make sense for them to do is to introduce a cast of new active companions and supporting characters and make Lana and Theron just two of many and make them sometimes involved but not always. When you think of a TV series like Star Trek TNG, there was a large cast of characters and the focus shifted between them. Not every character was in every episode and they didn't have to be. Lana and Theron can be doing other things, our character can go on some lengthy mission with some other companions, etc...I can't see their plan as it stands. No old companions have become active again after being recruited this year (including the ones previously recruited) no new companions have been introduced, the supporting characters Jace and Acina just disappeared from the story after their chapter, it's still just Theron (as the supposed bad guy) and Lana. Are we to be stuck with just Lana forever? Did they plan that far ahead? Are they making this up as they go? It sure seems that way from the nonsensical and disjointed nature of this years story bits,

 

This would be ideal! I would love to see the alliance specialists get out and do things! They are great, underutilized characters. And Blizz's gang. I seriously need to go questing with that whole pack of crazy little Jawas!

[krakadyla]

Not sure how my RP-ing with Theron impacts your interactions.

 

TL-DR: Options are good, particularly when they don't impact you.

 

 

Can't speak for Ralei, but I suspect it's because if they make him killable, story-wise he is dead regardless. Like Arcann, Senya, Torian. Vette, Aric, Kaliyo, etc.

 

And it's not for our characters to decide his fate anyway. The Alliance is Lana's brainchild. She planned everything, she found/rescued/invited and employed people she thought would be useful -- including Koth, Senya, Theron and yes, our characters. I'd say Theron's a higher ranking Alliance member than us, too, what with him planning and plotting and us going to where he or Lana points and simply killing all dudes. Boss Lana is the only one Theron's accountable to and so responsibility is hers.

 

And I don't think Lana would want his death.

Edited December 10, 2017 by krakadyla

[devilkat]

Can't speak for Ralei, but I suspect it's because if they make him killable, story-wise he is dead regardless. Like Arcann, Senya, Torian. Vette, Aric, Kaliyo, etc.

 

And it's not for our characters to decide his fate anyway. The Alliance is Lana's brainchild. She planned everything, she found/rescued/invited and employed people she thought would be useful -- including Koth, Senya, Theron and yes, our characters. I'd say Theron's a higher ranking Alliance member than us, too, what with him planning and plotting and us going to where he or Lana points and simply killing all dudes. Boss Lana is the only one Theron's accountable to and so responsibility is hers.

 

And I don't think Lana would want his death.

 

I know you're joking with the last part, but I'm going to say you're exactly right. Lana doesn't want him dead. Her reactions to what he did have seemed more like she was hurt than truly angry. She wants to know why he did what he did. I think she though of him and you as family, someone she could always count on. Now, he's gone with no explanation, and she's hurt. I think, even if given the option, she wouldn't kill him. I don't think she could. She use to be Sith, but she's changed. IMO, there won't be a choice between them. We'll get an explanation and take out the real bad guy together. I mean, hell, they let Arcan in and his only previous experience with the Alliance was trying to kill everyone. At least Theron was an ally before.

[Avianatorsparkma]

Ralei,

 

What I don't understand about your comment (and other people's) is why some of you are so against choices. As I mentioned (in my first among now three brilliant posts ) is that from an RP perspective, my characters run the gamut from love interest, to former love interest (once an original companion came back), to thankful for his efforts but nothing romantic, to indifferent, to loathing because he's Republic, to loathing because my characters feel betrayed regardless of his intentions, to loathing because my character is bonkers.

 

I hardly think of myself as some 11 year-old edge lord (new term to me, but I get it). I can completely see my range of characters embracing a range of options. Not sure how my RP-ing with Theron impacts your interactions.

 

TL-DR: Options are good, particularly when they don't impact you.

 

Hugs,

 

Dasty

 

A killing option for Theron has nothing to do with choices. If he becomes killable he will be eliminated from any future story content ...he literally will stop existing. Even those players who decide to forgive him will have to deal with the concequences of a potential killing option.

 

What you call a choice is actually the opposite. A killing option for Theron means that he will be gone for good for all of us. No matter if you kill him or if you forgive him....the result will be the same.

 

So you get your 10 seconds bloodlust and then you just move on and players like me will loose a beloved character and fleshed out romance for good, since he will no longer play any kind of role story wise.

Where is my choice in that scenario?

 

Think about it, you're not asking for a choice. You are indirectly asking to permanently remove a character from future story content, a character that means a lot to many players.

[Eshvara]

A killing option for Theron has nothing to do with choices. If he becomes killable he will be eliminated from any future story content ...he literally will stop existing. Even those players who decide to forgive him will have to deal with the concequences of a potential killing option.

 

What you call a choice is actually the opposite. A killing option for Theron means that he will be gone for good for all of us. No matter if you kill him or if you forgive him....the result will be the same.

 

So you get your 10 seconds bloodlust and then you just move on and players like me will loose a beloved character and fleshed out romance for good, since he will no longer play any kind of role story wise.

Where is my choice in that scenario?

 

Think about it, you're not asking for a choice. You are indirectly asking to permanently remove a character from future story content, a character that means a lot to many players.

 

But him not having a kill option means he'll be in my story for all of eternity. You don't want to lose him, I don't want him focused so heavily on my game with Lana. Where is the balance?

While I came to like Theron after the betrayal, I still don't want the Theron and Lana show to continue.

Edited December 10, 2017 by Eshvara

[Nefla]

But him not having a kill option means he'll be in my story for all of eternity. You don't want to lose him, I don't want him focused so heavily on my game with Lana. Where is the balance?

While I came to like Theron after the betrayal, I still don't want the Theron and Lana show to continue.

If BioWare were still decent storytellers they'd commit to a balance rather than all or nothing. A story where there are many characters that the focus shifts between rather than having an extreme focus on Lana and Theron 24-7 or cutting Theron from the story entirely and then it would just be an extreme Lana focus 24-7. I never thought I'd be so glad to see and quest with Temple as a break from her lol

[Eshvara]

If BioWare were still decent storytellers they'd commit to a balance rather than all or nothing. A story where there are many characters that the focus shifts between rather than having an extreme focus on Lana and Theron 24-7 or cutting Theron from the story entirely and then it would just be an extreme Lana focus 24-7. I never thought I'd be so glad to see and quest with Temple as a break from her lol

 

I just wonder what makes it so that other companions can't do the talking. Is it really because most are dead whereas Lana is immortal? Is her VA cheap?

I really miss how other Companions mattered, now most of them are dead or have not yet returned.

I guess there really isn't anyone left...

[IoNonSoEVero]

I do think they're setting up to remove either one or both of them - and as others have said the problem there is that when they're gone for one, they're gone for all. If they're aiming to do something entirely new in the next expac, assuming there is one, there will be changes regardless.

 

Only ways around having story ghosts that I see at this moment:

 

1. No kill options at all, which would be best IMHO because it would keep the character around, but would also frustrate those ready to move on to other quest-givers and focuses.

 

2. You're given the choice to keep ONE of the two and that person becomes your new quest-giver. So you still have one as your constant contact in the story but at least you've chosen the one you like more.

 

3. BW actually invests the time and money into doing two or three full-on alternate story paths, as they did with Arcann/Senya and Theron/Lana in KOTET 8 and 9.

[aerockyul]

I just hope they see these threads and decide to change their past behavior of letting kill options destroy the characters. I don't mind edgelords getting their kicks, I mind Bioware allowing that to let them off the hook on further development of the characters that are killable, especially LIs. By pandering to the lowest common denominator they risk pushing the people away who are the most steadfast and dedicated to keeping the game running. They are often the ones with constant subs, not sub for a month and maybe come back for a month next year, etc.

 

Bioware continues not knowing which side of the bread is buttered. The edgelords, much like the trolls in gen chat, are continuously protected at the expense of the long term players. They must be more profitable to pander, too, because it doesn't make much sense otherwise.

 

I'm lucky the ones I love most have not been killable yet (most of them haven't even come back) but I feel for the ones being strung along now and in the past because I won't like it one bit when it inevitably happens to mine.

[Eshvara]

I just hope they see these threads and decide to change their past behavior of letting kill options destroy the characters. I don't mind edgelords getting their kicks, I mind Bioware allowing that to let them off the hook on further development of the characters that are killable, especially LIs. By pandering to the lowest common denominator they risk pushing the people away who are the most steadfast and dedicated to keeping the game running. They are often the ones with constant subs, not sub for a month and maybe come back for a month next year, etc.

 

Bioware continues not knowing which side of the bread is buttered. The edgelords, much like the trolls in gen chat, are continuously protected at the expense of the long term players. They must be more profitable to pander, too, because it doesn't make much sense otherwise.

 

I'm lucky the ones I love most have not been killable yet (most of them haven't even come back) but I feel for the ones being strung along now and in the past because I won't like it one bit when it inevitably happens to mine.

 

Isn't Shae Vizla your favourite? The way they gave her away, she may as well have been dead.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I just hope they see these threads and decide to change their past behavior of letting kill options destroy the characters. I don't mind edgelords getting their kicks, I mind Bioware allowing that to let them off the hook on further development of the characters that are killable, especially LIs. By pandering to the lowest common denominator they risk pushing the people away who are the most steadfast and dedicated to keeping the game running. They are often the ones with constant subs, not sub for a month and maybe come back for a month next year, etc.

 

Bioware continues not knowing which side of the bread is buttered. The edgelords, much like the trolls in gen chat, are continuously protected at the expense of the long term players. They must be more profitable to pander, too, because it doesn't make much sense otherwise.

 

I'm lucky the ones I love most have not been killable yet (most of them haven't even come back) but I feel for the ones being strung along now and in the past because I won't like it one bit when it inevitably happens to mine.

 

Very well said. If edgelords want to kill everyone and leave themselves with only the ship droid, fine, except that it adversely affects everyone else's game. it does affect everyone because as you said, even if it's not your LI right now, they could be next in line.

 

BW doesn't seem to realize that the companion interactions do mean something, their presence or absence does have consequences to many's enjoyment of the game, and that when one's companions go missing - or are teetering on the edge of being a story ghost or killable - it does drive players away from the game. Players who probably spend a lot on subs, decos, etc. to enhance their stories. We're seeing players saying they will unsub or stop playing new expacs/chapters and that should not be the path BW wants.

 

It's been said before but if people want Games of Thrones they will watch that, not play SWTOR.

[serenitty]

What I find odd is how Zenith and Theron have the same voice actor, but Zenith isn't back yet. I do see them killing him as it has been too long. With an option of course. I don't think it's out of character at all for Theron to turn against you, if you want to use the super weapon for yourself. Especially not after all he has gone through to get it out of the hands of evil.

It could be that because he voices both characters and both are companions and Theron until now has been one of the forefront characters that the similarities of the two voices are just too similar.

In DA Jonny Rees voiced two characters that both became bigger characters in the second game, they went the other way and gave one character to Adam Howden.

Or maybe because Troy has been doing so much for voicing Theron that he wouldn't have the time to voice Zenith as well.

[serenitty]

Ralei,

 

What I don't understand about your comment (and other people's) is why some of you are so against choices. As I mentioned (in my first among now three brilliant posts ) is that from an RP perspective, my characters run the gamut from love interest, to former love interest (once an original companion came back), to thankful for his efforts but nothing romantic, to indifferent, to loathing because he's Republic, to loathing because my characters feel betrayed regardless of his intentions, to loathing because my character is bonkers.

 

I hardly think of myself as some 11 year-old edge lord (new term to me, but I get it). I can completely see my range of characters embracing a range of options. Not sure how my RP-ing with Theron impacts your interactions.

 

TL-DR: Options are good, particularly when they don't impact you.

 

Hugs,

 

Dasty

For me it's not that I don't like choices. I couldn't care less if some people want to kill Theron. The problem is that as we have seen with Jorgan and Kaliyo, that option to kill them does impact those that choose not to kill them. They both have become useless ventriloquists. My choice to save them made no difference I might as well have killed them both for all they do now.

[Celise]

i can think of half a dozen stories that would spare the life of Theron without the kill option involved and i am sure there are more as well.

 

The Real question is: Are Bioware finished with Theron? only they know that.

[casirabit]

Ralei,

 

What I don't understand about your comment (and other people's) is why some of you are so against choices. As I mentioned (in my first among now three brilliant posts ) is that from an RP perspective, my characters run the gamut from love interest, to former love interest (once an original companion came back), to thankful for his efforts but nothing romantic, to indifferent, to loathing because he's Republic, to loathing because my characters feel betrayed regardless of his intentions, to loathing because my character is bonkers.

 

I hardly think of myself as some 11 year-old edge lord (new term to me, but I get it). I can completely see my range of characters embracing a range of options. Not sure how my RP-ing with Theron impacts your interactions.

 

TL-DR: Options are good, particularly when they don't impact you.

 

Hugs,

 

Dasty

 

I am not Ralei but I can explain from my point of view why the kill option is not a very good idea, especially the way BW handles it.

 

My smuggler romanced Koth but he was able to be killed so that was it for him in the story. He was not involved in the story. I don't want people's choices taken away but I would like that if you don't kill him then he is still part of your story.

 

While you can roleplay with the companions that is not the same as being part of the store and I say this as a person who roleplays. BW messed up and continues to mess up when they allow a person to be killed when they forgot about the ones that don't kill him. They completely remove them from the story and that is not fair to those that don't kill someone. I have killed Scorpio and Kailyo and while I want them out of my story I did not want them out of someone else's story.

[krakadyla]

I know you're joking with the last part, but I'm going to say you're exactly right. Lana doesn't want him dead.

 

Oh, I wasn't joking. I'd say she surely wants to clock him something hard, yes, but kill him? Nah. Their camaraderie is real, fire-forged and doesn't even need our character at all.

[Seireeni]

BW doesn't seem to realize that the companion interactions do mean something, their presence or absence does have consequences to many's enjoyment of the game, and that when one's companions go missing - or are teetering on the edge of being a story ghost or killable - it does drive players away from the game. Players who probably spend a lot on subs, decos, etc. to enhance their stories. We're seeing players saying they will unsub or stop playing new expacs/chapters and that should not be the path BW wants.

 

I find it unlikely that BW doesn't realize that companions mean a lot to people -- all these changes to the companions and what you can do with them seem to be directly taken from complaints that were raised over and over again i.e. in these forums. Loads of people were unhappy that they couldn't kill companions if said companions did something their character would not approve of. Quinn is the most obvious one, but Kaliyo has a pretty sizeable hate group for just being Kaliyo. Other complaints I have seen over the years have been at least Ashara (people claimed you could let the ghost kill her in beta and many would have preferred that), Xalek (some felt that he should have been punished for breaking the rules of the Sith Academy), Skadge (...do I need to say why?) and Broonmark (people felt he's a bloodthirsty beast that has no business hanging out in a LS SW's ship). Ashara has not yet returned, but everyone else has had a kill option iirc. To me, it feels Bioware is trying to fix what many felt was an error in vanilla.

 

The problem we're seeing might be that the people who complained to have a kill option either have moved on to other games or have stopped going to forums. BW seems to be slow to implement changes in story (I think the livestream with Timothy ZAhn said that they're working on stuff far, far ahead in the future atm), and players wish to have fast reactions to their complaints, which doesn't mix well.

 

And I bet that, years from now (if this game manages to survive that long), Bioware will implement 8.0 and have spotlight moving from companion to companion -- and forums will be full of people complaining how they don't want to waste 3 chapters hanging out with Doc when they could be hanging out with Theron and Lana or something.