In-Game Moderators

[casirabit]

In game moderators from subscribers may sound like a good idea but we have people on these forums I would shudder to think what would happen if they ever became moderators. Sure there could be requirements but then again sometimes even the nicest person when given some power goes nuts.

 

Then there is the difference what someone considers trolling or bad language. I know between my boyfriend and me there is a difference and so that could be a bigger difference in game. What I consider improper on chat someone else may not.

[Zidovain]

We don't even have in-game GM's or live agents to assist us in our affairs, so what makes you think they're going to hire moderators for something trivial as chat?

 

If you read the opening post you will see that there are TWO other reasons posted why we need in-game mods.

[CrutchCricket]

Anybody who reads and understands my opening post will know that the first line of this current post of yours is FALSE. This is contrived and you are just spinning this to start a commotion.

 

I can clearly see now why you are against this, your tone and behavior appears to be at RISK in game if this happened. How convenient.

From here on your succeeding posts will be ignored. You have nothing constructive to contribute.

Yes, of course. I've repeatedly stated that I don't even notice the chat, but sure, I'm a big bad troll.

 

Well, I can be a big man and admit when I've stepped out of line, assumed the wrong thing and/or didn't carefully read something. I did go off on "get people from the forum to mod" and it's pretty obvious I was reacting only to the idea of volunteer mods. That says nothing about your unfounded assumptions up there, but the OP does go in the direction of BioWare employees doing the moderating so it seems I've made much ado about nothing. Sorry about that. I still think it's a waste of resources and I will be no less against volunteer mods in game. But other than that, I'm done here. Enjoy your thread, and sorry for the ruckus.

[Zidovain]

1. Having in-game moderators around the clock will mean hiring groups of people to enforce the rules for the five servers, each group will be responsible for their own shift around the day. basically put you'd see about 2 dozen people per shift to have one or two in most planets and zones where they would be needed with a variable amount on new worlds in order to keep the peace.

 

2. the cost to hire hundreds of people to enforce the game rules will be prohibitive, even on a $10 wage per week for their shift, looking at around 30 hours a week? thats $300 per person, not including facilities and computers to run the game and be fluent in the game and the rules.

24 x 5 servers = 120 people @ $300 per month (= $36,000 per month & $432,000 per year) x 4 shift groups = 480 people @ $300 per month (= $144,000 per month & $1,728,000 per year).

Add on the facilities, the computers and utilities and other costs and you are looking at around $2m+ per year. EA is not known for throwing money away.

 

3. Each person must understand and respect the rules and the urge to break them or abuse the power means even these moderators will need to be kept an eye on. "Who watches the watchers?" More watchers! That saying never gets old! . Never the less that would mean having super mods and administrators to make sure it all runs smoothly. Then there comes the appeals process which means increasing the customer service team to deal with even more problems, it means even more customer service reps in EA.

 

4. Why would EA even care for the customers anyway?

 

I don't know where you're pulling your numbers from but hey, you have to make a point. Regardless, we respect each others opinion. I have voiced mine, and you have voiced yours.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Zidovain

[Seireeni]

Yes, of course. I've repeatedly stated that I don't even notice the chat, but sure, I'm a big bad troll.

 

Well, I can be a big man and admit when I've stepped out of line, assumed the wrong thing and/or didn't carefully read something. I did go off on "get people from the forum to mod" and it's pretty obvious I was reacting only to the idea of volunteer mods. That says nothing about your unfounded assumptions up there, but the OP does go in the direction of BioWare employees doing the moderating so it seems I've made much ado about nothing. Sorry about that. I still think it's a waste of resources and I will be no less against volunteer mods in game. But other than that, I'm done here. Enjoy your thread, and sorry for the ruckus.

 

There could be a middle ground of paid employees and volunteers, volunteers being able to flag stuff for the paid employees while not having any "actual" power. That way, we could have more eyes in the chat for a cost way cheaper than hiring dozens of moderators.

[Zidovain]

In game moderators from subscribers may sound like a good idea but we have people on these forums I would shudder to think what would happen if they ever became moderators. Sure there could be requirements but then again sometimes even the nicest person when given some power goes nuts.

 

Then there is the difference what someone considers trolling or bad language. I know between my boyfriend and me there is a difference and so that could be a bigger difference in game. What I consider improper on chat someone else may not.

 

You have a point. I would respond similarly to a previous post that the key to this is finding the right person to do the job

[godsuxx]

If you read the opening post you will see that there are TWO other reasons posted why we need in-game mods.

 

You're not getting the reasoning of my post.

 

Regardless of the reasons on why we need mods, if BW doesn't take the effort in even hiring in-game GM's or live agents, it's highly doubtful that they will hire moderators for trivial matters such as chat.

 

Notice the word "hire", and hiring involves money and resources.

Edited November 27, 2017 by godsuxx

[Celise]

I don't know where you're pulling your numbers from but hey, you have to make a point. Regardless, we respect each others opinion. I have voiced mine, and you have voiced yours.

 

and yet you haven't even taken the time to notice what i wrote down, just what you saw you could pull apart without making any comment to the rest of it. That there isn't respect of another opinion. Try again.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Celise

[TUXs]

You're not getting the reasoning of my post.

 

Regardless of the reasons on why we need mods, if BW doesn't take the effort in even hiring in-game GM's or live agents, it's highly doubtful that they will hire moderators for trivial matters such as chat.

 

Notice the word "hire", and hiring involves money and resources.

No money needed...people like to feel special. If they opened this up to the community to volunteer for, plenty of qualified and acceptable people would apply for it...for FREE.

[DWho]

In game moderators from subscribers may sound like a good idea but we have people on these forums I would shudder to think what would happen if they ever became moderators. Sure there could be requirements but then again sometimes even the nicest person when given some power goes nuts.

 

Then there is the difference what someone considers trolling or bad language. I know between my boyfriend and me there is a difference and so that could be a bigger difference in game. What I consider improper on chat someone else may not.

 

I don't know. There are people on these forums that I would trust with being moderators (even ones that I disagree with a lot) because they make reasoned arguments for their positions, don't attack other people for their comments, and generally keep a cool head. In the end, the only trust required is Bioware's as these people would be representing them. It really matters little whether I trust them or anyone else trusts them.

 

I think when it comes to inappropriate chat it is repetition that is the deciding factor (which is why you really need the in-game presence). Someone who continues to say the same thing over and over is not someone who had a bad day or a bad match, it is someone who is intending to offend. I also think deliberate attempts to circumvent the profanity filter should also fall into the inappropriate category.

[LordFell]

We don't even have in-game GM's or live agents to assist us in our affairs, so what makes you think they're going to hire moderators for something trivial as chat?

Considering the number of threads the out-of-control General Chat has garnered in the weeks since the Server Merges, we can no longer consider this to be a trivial thing.

 

For me... my desire to play a game that is Star Wars is heavily governed by the simple metric of "Does this game FEEL like Star Wars?" When the chat it completely dominated by trolls commenting on current politics, sexual deviation, and profane race-baiting, this doesn't feel like Star Wars.

 

Right now, thinking about not renewing my subscription (I'm the GM of a guild, so that's a big reason to continue subscribing) my big three reasons would be:

1) Eternal Throne & Fallen Empire expansions were badly done, and until the game finds its way, I'm not interested in the story.

2) Continued failure to fix ancient bugs; stuff that should have been fixed years ago continues to plague me, and make SWTOR look amateurish.

3) Since the Merger, chat has become the sole property of Trolls, and unusable by the mature community. That, and the huge surge of player names which are either unsuited to the Star Wars world, or specifically intended to troll or offend.

 

Points 1 & 2 have been a thing for months. #3 is feeling like the straw that broke the camels back. I haven't logged in for a couple days now... and I've spent more time this week looking for my next MMO than in game on SWTOR. It's definitely something I need addressed by the Devs. My PM to Eric Musco hasn't been answered... I think my sub runs out Dec 19th; if something hasn't been said by then, I'm out.

[HiltoftheDragon]

The problem with hiring some knowledgeable folk from the swtor community to do a job for free is that there isnt much accountability. That person will for the most part begin to be biased towards some groups and favor others.

 

Ive seen this happen in other games where they introduced an application for players to become forum mods. You certainly had some that held their positions with neutrality in mind but some others followed the dark side and didnt last long.

 

I say it has to be a paid employee to handle that kind of solid responsibility.

[godsuxx]

No money needed...people like to feel special. If they opened this up to the community to volunteer for, plenty of qualified and acceptable people would apply for it...for FREE.

 

And this would be the perfect incentive for trolls.

[Zidovain]

and yet you haven't even taken the time to notice what i wrote down, just what you saw you could pull apart without making any comment to the rest of it. That there isn't respect of another opinion. Try again.

 

I saw your numbers, they don't make sense. So as I said, I understand you had to make a point. Hence, the those are the figures you showed. Again, that's your view how things are, I won't argue with your derivatives even if I don't agree with them.

 

You are entitled to your opinion.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Zidovain

[PlagaNerezza]

I propose hiring in-game moderators to keep the peace. I don't think BW would even have to spend a dime because frankly, I can tell people here in the forum would do it for free. But let's not go there, the game can seriously benefit if we have real time in-game mods to:

 

1) Control chat toxicity in the fleet and other instances on each of the 5 servers. Trolls, harsh language, harrassments, etc., will be booted out of the game. A player is given a warning by the moderator and if persists, said player's account will be forcefully logged out of the game and applied a temporary ban of 1 hour (can't log in). A reasonable time for the said player to calm down. Degree of penalty is always arguable, we'll have the guys in BW decide that. As an example i'm just stating 1 hour penalty for "ill behavior" and depending on circumstance, may or may not increase.

 

2) Ranked throwers. Players who does this have increased in numbers simply because they're getting away with it unpunished or if they ever did, only had a slap in the wrist. Players spotted throwing will be given a warning, if he insists, his account will be unable to QUE Ranked games for 24 hours. Again the penalty is for BW to decide but as an example I'm stating 24 hours because this will allow enough time for the rest of the ranked community to enjoy the feature uninterrupted by people throwing games. Also, 24 hours reduces the work load of the mods and is significant enough that people will have second thoughts of doing it again.

 

3) Create in-game events. For example a mod on the Imperial side will organize a raid party in Oricon or during the Gree event to fight the Republic faction also organized by another mod. This can run for a given span of time in days or hours (whatever is suitable) and ofcourse have rewards suited for the event. This can make the community more fun and engaging.

 

This is not just a suggestion but a strong proposal

 

Don't spend 1 nickel of my subscriber dollars on any employee to moderate fleet chat. I want content. Finish the operation you started please. Add story. Balance the game. If you want a list of the 100 items this should behind bioware let me know. Your chat is fine. Great job on it. I have no issues other than improvements I can do without. I'd rather you get me some cool gear on the cartel market. Or a new companion. Or some more missions. How about new emotes? I can think of a billion items we need over this.

[TUXs]

And this would be the perfect incentive for trolls.

Yep...all Bioware would need to do is screen the applicants, review forum history and any in-game chat logs they might have and use their best judgement. If a moderator does abuse their power, Bioware can take action.

 

Speaking of trolls...nice forum name...

[godsuxx]

Yep...all Bioware would need to do is screen the applicants, review forum history and any in-game chat logs they might have and use their best judgement. If a moderator does abuse their power, Bioware can take action.

 

Speaking of trolls...nice forum name...

 

Yet again, this will require money and resources. You will need to hire people to do those things.

[TUXs]

Yet again, this will require money and resources. You will need to hire people to do those things.

Or maybe CS could review it?!

[Celise]

Yep...all Bioware would need to do is screen the applicants, review forum history and any in-game chat logs they might have and use their best judgement. If a moderator does abuse their power, Bioware can take action.

 

Speaking of trolls...nice forum name...

 

I don't think any of us here are innocent of making remarks and having our own way of seeing things. it's very hard to screen someone from behind a computer screen and potentially faked responses which will have to be taken at face value with the application board.

 

I'm in no way qualified to even try for the role, i'm stuck in my own ways, i am my own worst enemy and i freely acknowledge that being the hypocrite i am at times. Funny thing is no one can be considered perfect for the voluntary role, there is no such thing as perfect when it comes to human behavior.

 

Yet again, this will require money and resources. You will need to hire people to do those things.

 

yeah, even for voluntary mods, you still need people to watch over them and make sure they all report back and haven't gotten in over their heads. that still requires a team of people to administrate around the clock.

[DanNV]

This game has needed full time, 24 hour in-game moderators since launch. It still needs them, but after this long I don't expect EA to do anything about it.

[LordFell]

I am all for having moderated chat... and I mean, real, actual, moderated chat... not like what we have now.

 

This means being able to right-click someone's chats (or private messages) to report for harassment or profanity, regardless of where you are in physical relation to the person who's doing the flaming, toxicity, trolling... what have you.

 

I do not think that chat moderation should be in game. Most jobs which have a Graveyard shift also pay a premium, but also, 4am on a North American server on a week night is probably fairly dead... so we're paying someone extra to do less work. When I say "we" of course, I mean SWTOR, whether EA or Bioware.... using money we've paid for Cartel Coins or Subscriptions; how they use the resources we the player provide. I don't think it's wise or a good use of resources for Moderators to interact with players, either. Discussing a warning with the player, or engaging them would just use up time... if someone's reported for trolling, do you think they wouldn't troll a moderator communicating with them directly? Of course they would.

 

For my money, I'd be thinking maybe 2 full time people per server, and NOT in-game. The idea of having moderators in game to sponsor in game events is a lovely bit of nostalgia... but also... probably a waste of money. Better would be to hire a programmer to create unique, randomly occurring game events. Anyways...

 

I think that filters should be able to make it so that someone's chats that are reported are also filtered into a file that's linked to their account. So, instead of seeing individual reports on single chats, one after the other... instead a Moderator would be handed a file on someone's account. They were reported once in the last 12 hours for using a * to circumvent the profanity filter? Maybe do nothing. Who cares? They were reported 12 times in one hour for a drunken rant featuring racist and homophobic slurs, usually paired together as either an invitation or a suggestion... yeah. Let's give this person a warning.

 

I'd like to see a simple, escalating scale...

Warning -kick them out of game (unless already logged) and advise them their chats have been unacceptable and it's been noticed. Future infractions would lead to increased penalty.

Chat Squelch: Ability to use General, PvP, Trade, /Say and /Yell put on a 60 second cooldown, and use of Group, Guild and Private chat channels put on a 15 second cooldown. First Squelch 48 hours, second Squelch 5 days.

Chat Silence: Banned from General, PvP, Trade entirely and muted (unable to /Say or /Yell). Also, ability to use Group, Guild and Private channels put on a 60 second cooldown. First Silence 48 hours, second Silence 5 days.

Temp Ban: Locked out of game entirely. 48 hours first Ban, 5 days second ban.

Nuked: Bye now. Don't come again.

 

Going warning free for 4 weeks would drop the person down one step on the escalating scale. Also, Free 2 Play accounts should ramp up the scale faster, taking out the 2nd offense for each of the middle categories.

[vingmotor]

No..this isnt school.

[fortyfivedollars]

Just curious, how will it improve the game if people are afraid to talk in gen chat?

 

Will talking about politics be bannable?

 

What about Jawa spam?

 

What if the Moderator just doesn't like you?

 

Why pay money for something that you can do for free by turning off chat, putting someone on ignore, or using the profanity filter?

[Qouivandes]

def nuked for Jawa spam.....

[Lord_Thorne]

The big problem, as already pointed out by others, is the potential for abuse - but then, any system is subject to abuse, and the completely unmoderated state of chat is already in a sad state of abuse.

For my part, I'd be happy if the same rules about language and attitude were imposed on chat as they were in my workplace, where for over thirty years, excessive profanity (and it was a pretty narrow range), insults (let alone aggressive sexism/racism/etc.!), and harsh behavior in general were sufficient for suspension and dismissal - usually with a warning, but very dependent upon particulars of the incident. In my opinion, there is really no excuse for that kind of thing, not here, not in-game, not in public at all.

But I know moderation will never happen because BW/EA is in business to make money and they're happy to take money from immature and wicked people (they'll even take my money:rolleyes:). So I'll just deal with it.