The Saddest Part Of The Server Merges

[Lium]

They did away with moderation because frankly, people like the unmoderated chat. There will always be whiners on forums about it, but these companies know people engage in the behavior and enmass don't really mind it as much as they say they. It's like the 1990's when all these groups protested lyrics in music. The only thing that did was make it more popular. The facts support the current system over the moderated system. Its proven people like vulgarity and sic humor and political rants. Sometimes it goes to far, but in my opinion you have to go a long way to offend me.

I was just going to say this. The cries over the chat channel remind me of people complaining about South Park and shock jocks in the 90s. If you don't like it, ignore it.

 

Seriously, I'm a person of color, if anyone should be offended by the stuff they see in chat, it would be me. But I don't care because I just ignore it. Sometimes I do ask game related questions and they always get answered. Even if it's a whisper.

 

Again, I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying it's normal. You might not like that, but it is in fact normal.

[DieAlteHexe]

...

 

Again, I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying it's normal. You might not like that, but it is in fact normal.

 

More's the pity.

 

And I won't apologise for trying to fight against this "normal". It may be, although it certainly is not in RL, but there's utterly no need for it aside from people trying to look "cool".

 

They don't.

[IoNonSoEVero]

The problem with chat now, and it is worse than it was before the mergers, is that it presents a negative impression of the game and its community. If you are a new player and the first time you go to fleet, the first thing you see in chat is something offensive, you are going to have second thoughts about whether this is the game for you or not. Many say that an MMO is a social game but are perfectly fine with anti-social (and desiring to play by yourself is not anti-social because it does not negatively impact others) behavior in that game. That is amazing. There have been people who have maintained that "dead" servers are bad for the game. I would maintain that toxic chat is as bad or worse for the game and now we don't have "dead" servers to blame. This whole idea that it is OK because "it's an MMO" or "its's the internet" or even "people like unmoderated chat" is bogus. It is far past time to clean up the toxic cesspool that general chat has become and return it to the players who use it to play the game.

 

This. It's like a street where all the windows are broken and there's garbage everywhere- it does present a negative impression. If you're a new Level 15 and you're landing on Fleet for the first time, and all you hear is that bile-spewing, it may be very off-putting. One's first reaction might be "well, I certainly don't want to get to know these people," and since there aren't any other voices in the mix, it leads to an overall negative impression.

 

There's a reason that many online publications have turned off comments altogether, why sites like YouTube let you disable them, and why many sites moderate heavily before posting any reader remarks - people DON'T like seeing it, and know that it creates a negative impression. It's not a matter of being too delicate to hear the subject matter; it's about time, place and adult behavior. ]

 

Usually the only ones who think the gen chat toxicity are amusing seem to be other trolls. They remind me of little kids when they go through a swearing phase - they walk around saying four-letter words because they think it's daring and clever, and don't realize that nobody - except maybe other little kids - is at all impressed or amused - they just find it babyish and tedious.

[Sangetorix]

I would like to chime in on the state of gen chat, after reading what people have put down.

 

First, I completely understand what you mean about toxicity. I remember during the US Presidential election and shortly afterward people were constantly spamming "make America great again!" or, better yet, the for-a-time ubiquitous phrase "murica" or "merica," both of which in my summation were an attempt to troll and to disparage Trump supporters. And just the other day, I saw someone saying the N word over and over again. And of course over the years I've seen countless other things which if I heard someone say in a real-life setting I would be shocked and appalled.

 

To me, it can in a somewhat vague way be compared to the romance of Arcann by some people on here. There's actually a thread that discusses it, and some were wondering how they could find someone like that even remotely attractive enough to romance even in a game setting; ya know, mass murderer, killed his brother, basically an all-around bad guy. Some people argued by saying he redeemed himself in the end. The counter was that it doesn't excuse what he did in the past. The response to this by some was, 'well, it's a game and my character doesn't accurately reflect me in real life (paraphrasing there).'

 

The last statement of my last paragraph represents the comparison there to trolling and toxic chat---let me explain: I find it very easy to discern that how people communicate in this game online in gen chat most likely isn't at all who these people are in real life. Like, 'if the chips were down,' so-to-speak, is that who they REALLY are? I don't think it is. And because I see it that way, any power or weight that those words have becomes nill. This is the reason that even after playing the game for 5 years I literally have NO one on my ignore list. Not a single person. It is because I believe 'this is actually not who they are and I can give them the benefit of the doubt,' so instead of being offended by some very offensive things, I can easily roll with it. Hell sometimes I actually chime in because I am aware that it is all just random nonsense. Often times the topic changes (or I have deliberately changed it by talking on their troll level).

 

I'm an introvert by nature; a homebody. I go to work, I come home, I read a lot, and I mess around the computer, mostly this game (I do some other stuff like volunteering at the SPCA lol I don't just sit around). So when I log in and on fleet I see a bunch of random nonsense being spouted by random people, I'm actually grateful that they're there, because it reminds me, 'hey, I'm in an online environment with other imperfect people full of contradictions just like me, not just a bunch of NPCs.' It adds a sense of community to me, because I know most likely that's not who they are and it's all random nonsense. To me, it's the visual version of ambient noise, or the indiscernible chatter of countless people talking to each other at the same time (now with so many people on the servers, gen chat scrolls FAST lol).

 

At face value, it's obvious that a lot of toxic stuff gets said in chat. Some stuff has made my eyes rolls irl HARD, or even actually say 'blah' or '***' out loud. The medicine that has worked to clear this toxicity is to realize, 'Oh wait, that's not actually them as a person.' It's random nonsense, without meaning, the text version of small talk with a person who has ADD. There will always be exceptions to that, but the number of them that are genuine exceptions is so rare it doesn't bother me. Even they have no power over me. When I realize the nature of the leviathan that is the toxic troll community, I begin to see it more clearly and I can get over it, without having to worry about creating my own safe space.

 

TL;DR

Toxic chat is real, but doesn't show you who the other person actually is. Most likely its random and while the content may be offensive, the delivery is actually not meant to be. As long as I keep that in mind, I'll be okay...and if I can't....then I need to get over myself and look at things differently.

[Lium]

This. It's like a street where all the windows are broken and there's garbage everywhere- it does present a negative impression. If you're a new Level 15 and you're landing on Fleet for the first time, and all you hear is that bile-spewing, it may be very off-putting. One's first reaction might be "well, I certainly don't want to get to know these people," and since there aren't any other voices in the mix, it leads to an overall negative impression.

 

There's a reason that many online publications have turned off comments altogether, why sites like YouTube let you disable them, and why many sites moderate heavily before posting any reader remarks - people DON'T like seeing it, and know that it creates a negative impression. It's not a matter of being too delicate to hear the subject matter; it's about time, place and adult behavior. ]

 

Usually the only ones who think the gen chat toxicity are amusing seem to be other trolls. They remind me of little kids when they go through a swearing phase - they walk around saying four-letter words because they think it's daring and clever, and don't realize that nobody - except maybe other little kids - is at all impressed or amused - they just find it babyish and tedious.

First of all, this is a video game. It's one of the last places you should be looking for "adult behavior". And by the way, I can guarantee you that the majority of trolls you see in chat are likely "adults", because adults often act more childish than kids. ESPECIALLY in video games.

 

Second, if someone is trying out SWTOR for the first time, I highly doubt they are new to video games. So, seeing all that crap in general is not going to turn them away from the game. Pretty much everyone knows that anonymity breeds this kind of behavior online. So once again, it's the norm.

 

Third, one of the biggest things that will cause new players to quit are empty servers. People trolling in general chat is actually a sign of a healthy game, if you can believe that. Albeit, one with possibly a crappy community. But a healthy game nonetheless.

 

In general (make sure you read that part before you rush in to say, "Well, I'm only 20 and I find chat offensive!) a kid or a young person won't care at all about what's said in chat. The only people that will complain about it are older gamers.

 

Young people are too busy actually playing the game.

[Eshvara]

FAnd by the way, I can guarantee you that the majority of trolls you see in chat are likely "adults", because adults often act more childish than kids. ESPECIALLY in video games.

 

In my experience, this has often been the case.

[LordFell]

They did away with moderation because frankly, people like the unmoderated chat. There will always be whiners on forums about it, but these companies know people engage in the behavior and enmass don't really mind it as much as they say they. It's like the 1990's when all these groups protested lyrics in music. The only thing that did was make it more popular. The facts support the current system over the moderated system. Its proven people like vulgarity and sic humor and political rants. Sometimes it goes to far, but in my opinion you have to go a long way to offend me.

First... says who? How do YOU know "people" like unmoderated chat? I mean... obviously some people do, or chat wouldn't be like it is... but how can you throw that as a blanket statement? The fact that this is not something that people in this thread are agreeing with tells me that you're wrong on this. "People" don't like unmoderated chat.

 

A huge difference between something like Chat in an MMO and CDs with vulgar lyrics is... if you want music like that, you go out and buy it. Maybe banning it made it more popular (among idiots) but banning in an MMO works differently. If people who are throwing down hate speech and overtly vulgar sexual comments are getting silences and bans, this will not be making this kind of chat more popular. Instead of being eager to explain what they really mean about getting their Padawan polishing their Lightsaber, they'll be more inclined to say "uh... use your imagination, if I get reported again, I'm looking at a Game Ban."

 

 

I was just going to say this. The cries over the chat channel remind me of people complaining about South Park and shock jocks in the 90s. If you don't like it, ignore it.

 

Seriously, I'm a person of color, if anyone should be offended by the stuff they see in chat, it would be me. But I don't care because I just ignore it. Sometimes I do ask game related questions and they always get answered. Even if it's a whisper.

 

Again, I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying it's normal. You might not like that, but it is in fact normal.

My argument here is Time and Place. If I'm watching Southpark, I know exactly what I'm expecting, and if I'm offended, that's my problem. Star Wars should be PG13, more or less family friendly. If someone's 10 year old is playing the game, that should be fine. With the state of Fleet Chat, it is not fine.

 

You might want to argue that it's an MMO, so we should understand that wildly offensive language is going to get used all the time... and the game does indicate it's "T for Teen" and that the admins of the game can't be responsible for online interactions, but at the same time... that kind of chat is prohibited in the EULA.

 

So... your argument is... honestly...

We know what we're doing is wrong, and we shouldn't do it... but we want to do it anyways.

 

...no. It is wrong, and it isn't good for the game, and something needs to be done about it. Personally, I would prefer to see an RP instance; chat would be more immersive, and people who want to talk like they're on /4Chan can stick to PvE or PvP instances. And truthfully, I'm not at all bothered by vulgarity... what has me filled with wrath is primarily how the worst of the worst chat breaks my immersion.

BUT if SWTOR is going to give us an RP instance, we need to be able to report Trolls, and make sure they know it's just not worth their time to come hassling us. Somehow, "RP" became synonymous with behaving like a mature person... oh well.

[DWho]

In my experience, this has often been the case.

 

Regardless of who is doing it, I see no reason to defend it or resist fixing it. Toxic chat turns people away from a game it is not a sign of a healthy game. It is a sign of a game with an unfriendly community.

[Eshvara]

Regardless of who is doing it, I see no reason to defend it or resist fixing it. Toxic chat turns people away from a game it is not a sign of a healthy game. It is a sign of a game with an unfriendly community.

 

Oh I agree.

[Suzsi]

I also agree

Quests and bonuses that I could breeze through now take twice as long because I have to wait for respawn and this new crop is not polite they will swoop in and grab the objective if you are fighting every single time.

 

In the words of Alistair

"Swooping is bad"

 

This is the frustrating part. Sometimes it can take upto 3 or 4 times longer depending on the quests. Not to mention the insanity in general chat :/

 

Ive already seen some very vulgar suggestive chat. Someone telling another to go kill themselves and various horribleness inbetween.

As much as its "good for the game" maybe it also would have been good for the game to keep open a fresh new server people who like quiet could free transfer to because whats good for some isnt good for all.

 

Also honestly I cant see how subjecting people to chat like that is good for anyone.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Suzsi

[Damask_Rose]

I was just going to say this. The cries over the chat channel remind me of people complaining about South Park and shock jocks in the 90s. If you don't like it, ignore it.

 

Seriously, I'm a person of color, if anyone should be offended by the stuff they see in chat, it would be me. But I don't care because I just ignore it. Sometimes I do ask game related questions and they always get answered. Even if it's a whisper.

 

Again, I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying it's normal. You might not like that, but it is in fact normal.

 

That's a really sad statement about your life. The chat I've been seeing since the merge isn't any sort of normal for anything in my life, irl or online. I've played numerous MMOs since the dawn of MMOs and this has been the worst I've ever seen. (I only played WoW for a month, so I didn't experience the infamous Barrows chat.)

[Lium]

That's a really sad statement about your life. The chat I've been seeing since the merge isn't any sort of normal for anything in my life, irl or online. I've played numerous MMOs since the dawn of MMOs and this has been the worst I've ever seen. (I only played WoW for a month, so I didn't experience the infamous Barrows chat.)

Log into WoW right now. The first 20 levels are F2P. Go to any populated server, such as Tichondrius or Stormrage. Go to any capital city. I defy you to look at the general chat for longer than one minute.

 

I almost want to dare you to do it. Because what you will see there makes ANYTHING you see in SWTOR seem like mild banter. You will see the most racist, sexist, homophobic and religious intolerance you've probably ever seen in such a short amount of time. Each comment purposely worse than the previous one. It's quite honestly a competition to see who can be the most offensive. That was especially the case on Tich.

 

If SWTOR is honestly the worst you've ever seen then you simply haven't played many MMOs. Take these games as an example, all of which are F2P.

 

Elder Scrolls Online

Tera

Black Desert Online

Archeage

DCUO (they won't even talk to you while grouped with you)

Eve Online (there has actually been news stories about this game's community)

 

Those are just off the top of my head because I've played all of them. The general chat in those game's are straight up unreadable.

 

Also, it was Barrens chat. Not Barrows.

[DWho]

If SWTOR is honestly the worst you've ever seen then you simply haven't played many MMOs.

 

That's like comparing a cesspool to an open sewer and saying, you know, this open sewer isn't so bad compared to the cesspool next door. It is plenty bad enough here to make an effort to do something to clean it up.

[Theeko]

They completely ruined the inertia of strongholds killed the last remaining area of content which people enjoyed trying to get ahead of each other on the leader board but now since people spent just a tad 90 cc price for each server that they sent there current legacy to they got millions to billions of free decorations depending what they had used on previous legacy as well.

[Damask_Rose]

Log into WoW right now. The first 20 levels are F2P. Go to any populated server, such as Tichondrius or Stormrage. Go to any capital city. I defy you to look at the general chat for longer than one minute.

 

I almost want to dare you to do it. Because what you will see there makes ANYTHING you see in SWTOR seem like mild banter. You will see the most racist, sexist, homophobic and religious intolerance you've probably ever seen in such a short amount of time. Each comment purposely worse than the previous one. It's quite honestly a competition to see who can be the most offensive. That was especially the case on Tich.

 

If SWTOR is honestly the worst you've ever seen then you simply haven't played many MMOs. Take these games as an example, all of which are F2P.

 

Elder Scrolls Online

Tera

Black Desert Online

Archeage

DCUO (they won't even talk to you while grouped with you)

Eve Online (there has actually been news stories about this game's community)

 

Those are just off the top of my head because I've played all of them. The general chat in those game's are straight up unreadable.

 

Also, it was Barrens chat. Not Barrows.

 

I guess we've just had very different experiences in MMOs. On your list I've played both BDO & ESO for a fair bit of time and both were very mild. In my month in WoW I didn't see anything bothersome.

 

And for perspective, I've been playing MMOs since 1999. Asheron's Call 1&2, DDO, LotRO, CoX are the main ones and I've dabbled in many others. This is the only game I've played that I have been angry enough to block anyone, let alone report them.

[Lium]

I guess we've just had very different experiences in MMOs. On your list I've played both BDO & ESO for a fair bit of time and both were very mild. In my month in WoW I didn't see anything bothersome.

 

And for perspective, I've been playing MMOs since 1999. Asheron's Call 1&2, DDO, LotRO, CoX are the main ones and I've dabbled in many others. This is the only game I've played that I have been angry enough to block anyone, let alone report them.

For the record, I was actually thinking when I wrote "you simply haven't played many MMOs" that you may have started playing them like 20 years ago when MMO communities were much better, more respectful and cooperative because they had to be to get stuff done. The games were more challenging back then so you had to work together. If you were a jerk or a troll, chances are you wouldn't get groups.

 

That includes vanilla WoW. The community in WoW was much better back then than it is today because you were held accountable for your actions. Today, there is little to no accountability in WoW. Thus, you see the kind of behavior you do.

 

The good thing about being on one server now is that you can actually hold people accountable. There's no cross-server stuff, so if someone is repeatedly trolling general chat, call them out. Like the other poster in this thread said, there are tools to handle trolls and repeat offenders. You just have to use them.

[MandFlurry]

2-3 months tops.

 

Not when EA is telling Bioware, to give out Codes to Promote Battlefront 2. I hate all these idiots that say it's Bioware's fault when about 80% of what company is at fault is EA NOT Bioware.

 

They will promote any game , but this 1.

 

Not attacking you lol.

Edited November 15, 2017 by MandFlurry

[DarthVandalism]

Adding my two cents here. But, until they allow me to go into a less populated instance, so I can manage to get some of the bonuses and heroics (Possessed hunter comes to mind) without a ton of people spamming AoEs to steal the kill, I am out, and likely to end my sub. Goodbye TOR, it's been fun, but... I'm done.

[DanNV]

Not when EA is telling Bioware, to give out Codes to Promote Battlefront 2. I hate all these idiots that say it's Bioware's fault when about 80% of what company is at fault is EA NOT Bioware.

 

They will promote any game , but this 1.

 

Not attacking you lol.

 

There is no difference. BW is just a department of EA. It is not an independent studio. When Anthem flops, the days of even the name BioWare are numbered.

[IoNonSoEVero]

First of all, this is a video game. It's one of the last places you should be looking for "adult behavior". And by the way, I can guarantee you that the majority of trolls you see in chat are likely "adults", because adults often act more childish than kids. ESPECIALLY in video games.

 

Oh, I'm sure they're adults - very sad, maladjusted ones who somehow believe their behavior is acceptable. The only people who think it's "normal" are themselves. And ironically they also seem to be the first to howl that there aren't enough other people to play with them.

 

Third, one of the biggest things that will cause new players to quit are empty servers. People trolling in general chat is actually a sign of a healthy game, if you can believe that. Albeit, one with possibly a crappy community. But a healthy game nonetheless.

 

Ridiculous. Most people simply want to be left in peace to play the game as they wish. Many join the game with friends or family and stick with them. They're not concerned with how many people are on the server, unless it's slowing down their game. I've never once seen anyone on this board say, "oh, well, I don't see an appropriate number of random strangers walking around on the Fleet. I'm quitting!"

 

There's nothing healthy about a game that is infested with trolls. Even if people don't quit over it, when they're forced to turn off Gen chat to avoid the garbage, the game loses. How many people could have asked or answered questions there? How many people missed out on doing group content, because they didn't see an LFG or weren't able to find enough people on Gen chat to fill their group? How many players could have used, or offered, help, but didn't - because they didn't want to wade into the cesspool? It does adversely affect the game when a major mode of communication becomes unusable.

 

In general (make sure you read that part before you rush in to say, "Well, I'm only 20 and I find chat offensive!) a kid or a young person won't care at all about what's said in chat. The only people that will complain about it are older gamers.

 

Young people are too busy actually playing the game.

 

Also ridiculous. Now you're making assumptions that this is just older gamers being prudes or whatever. People of all ages are capable of behaving like they weren't raised in a cave, and young people are actually globally leading many of the campaigns against internet trolling and intolerance.

[Nefla]

Why is this even an argument? When did thinking people should be less rude, crude, nonsensical, and idiotic become unreasonable? Why is the response to wanting people to grow up and behave better "well people are stupid and rude and spammy and harassing, etc...in other games too, therefore it should be like that in every game and anyone who disagrees should shut up because they're a snowflake and don't play games!" Um what?

[PiiTarr]

Several things:

1. Hate speech is free speech

2. It's not actual hate speech, its called trolling or "joking". You should try it sometime, its really fun.

3. Controversy is also fun. Debates are fun, if you don't want to listen to them play around with you chat settings or just close the window entirely. There are so many options for controlling your game experience now that you really have no genuine excuse to complain about your multiplayer experience (except about ninjas, we all hate ninjas)

 

Several things:

1. Prohibited by the Rules of Conduct

2. Prohibited by the Rules of Conduct

3. If the debates touch on certain topics (politics, religion, etc.) they are prohibited by the Rules of Conduct.

 

All players agree to follow the Rules of Conduct, and therefore, complaints about players failing to follow the Rules of Conduct are perfectly valid. You may want to familiarize yourself with them since you appear to be excusing (if not advocating) behavior that is not in keeping with them. http://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/rulesofconduct

Edited November 15, 2017 by PiiTarr
typo - perfect to "perfectly"

[PiiTarr]

TL;DR

Toxic chat is real, but doesn't show you who the other person actually is. Most likely its random and while the content may be offensive, the delivery is actually not meant to be.

 

Actually, it shows you exactly who they are. It shows you they are someone willing to say things which are in direct violation of the Rules of Conduct (http://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/rulesofconduct) to which they agreed to abide when they started playing the game. It shows you they are people who think the rules don't apply to them (because of whatever justification they've come up with in their minds) and behave in a way they'd never behave if it were not for the anonymity provided by the internet. Finally, you have no way of knowing if the delivery is meant to be offensive or not, you can't possibly know the thought process that goes on in the heads of all the trolls, none of us can, so your final sentence is pure speculation.

[ivanhedgehog]

Ding ding ding.. You win what this is truly about. To this day I see people saying quit.. Go somewhere else etc. et al.. People you can't continue to think in this manner. We've just experienced what is probably the last merge this game has in it..

 

That being said, given the choice of a bunch of mostly unpopulated servers and 1 largely populated one, which do you think BW/EA will choose? which choice has a lower overhead? thats why they merged, bean counters rule the world.

[ivanhedgehog]

The question is, should the onus be on the every day person who would like to be a part of the community by asking questions, finding groups, discussing the game, etc. to shut themselves out of the chat? Or do we want the people who say things because they know they'll disturb someone else to be the ones shut out and inconvenienced? Do we want a friendly and productive group of people disturbed by one disgruntled deviant? I know which I would prefer, which most people in history have preferred in every public space ever built.

 

I think we need to recognize that theses places aren't just representations on your computer monitor, but actual "cyberspaces" and it will get even more "real" as time and technology progress. I think those who think that trolling and hateful things should be tolerated because it's in cyberspace and you can just "turn it off" are on the wrong side of history and aren't thinking ahead far enough or broad enough.

 

We have different methods in physical spaces for dealing with anti-social behavior depending on the place and who controls it. You can't say anything you want anywhere you want because someone, whether it's a citizen, a teacher, a cop, a judge, private security, your mom, social pressure, hopefully your own conscious, will stop you. You aren't allowed to yell vile things about children in a physical public space because one of the above is going to shut you up quick. Why is this concept so hard for some to translate into cyberspace?

 

who will pay someone to monitor chat? Bw isnt willing to, that much is obvious.