Is there really a point to Satele Shan?

[Lunafox]

Its not the casual or even the majority of reg pvpers that have the bad attitude, it’s a small portion of the ranked community that infect people around them and they are loud mouths. I would say less than 5% of pvpers have the toxicity people think the community has. The way I see it, those 5% are so loud and toxic, that the rest of the 95% of pvpers just keep their heads low and hope they don’t add to it. Most just stay silent and let the loud mouths run free because confronting them just makes it 1000x worse.

The reason pvp servers die is because of the small percentage of toxic players. Even pvpers can only handle so much of them and will jump servers to get away from them, that’s why pvp servers fail. The problem as I see it, is those toxic people follow because they have no one to troll and their toxic behaviour doesn’t offend their fellow toxic players. There is no reason for them to be toxic if it doesn’t offend or shock people, but they keep trying on those pvp servers until there is no one left to play with. And by the time they transfer to follow the nice pvpers, they’ve become even more toxic from trying to out toxic the other toxic pvpers. It’s a viscous circle.

But then the good pvpers end up being labeled as toxic, when all they want to do is also get away from the same toxic players you despise.

 

I get what you're saying, and yes, that minority of nasty loudmouths do ruin it for a lot of people, even other pvpers. I get that there are good ones, they just seem so few and far between. The bad, they're like a virus. It often feels the other way around, like 5% are nice people that like that sort of play and the other 95% are a wretched hive of scum and villainy, just because they are so loud, mean, and omnipresent. I just don't have the mindset for it, I look at killing another player, like 'you're giving them a bad day, or a hard time.' I was even that way when I played pvp games, I tended to leave people alone in the field and only do the pvp at the designated seige time in the designated place. And I don't even have it in me anymore to do even that much. :/

 

 

The players that rely upon the LFG tool and maximum LFG fodder for their group content and want to play on the most populated server will likely find that higher population on The Starforge.

 

Can they remain on Satele Shan? Sure, but will that be the server with the higher population and the maximum LFG fodder?

 

See, that's something else I don't get Rata, people like me don't use the LFG tool, I don't play group stuff, like...ever. I may have to in order to get the gross Hexid comp, just because she might have something to say about our comps...and even that feels like Bioware is holding a gun to my head. I've not yet decided if it's worth it. So, if you get a whole bunch of people who think like me, just because there are many of us, doesn't mean the LFG queues will pop in a steady stream. There could be a 100 people like me that sit in their houses or do dailies and story and never seek another soul to do anything with.

[-Spc]

The players that rely upon the LFG tool and maximum LFG

So people can't look for groups on Satele Shan server ?

Your sentences make no sense, and i still think Satele Shan server will be better.

Edited November 8, 2017 by -Spc

[Suzsi]

Well, that's not how it came across to me originally, because Shadowlands, JC and the other three servers were all quiet, peace loving, rp type servers and it was that, that made me think, well maybe it'll be okay. Now suddenly all the rats from the rat race server Harbinger which I never wanted to be any part of, are coming to wreck 'our' server? I figured the pvp types would stay on their pvp server. To each their own and all that...

 

Well, I'm going where I'm going now, I suppose, and I'll just hope that the ratrace stays on SS and the rest of us can enjoy SF. As far as I can see, quite a few forum friends of mine will be going to SF so it might still be okay, but I do worry about the toxicity that Harbinger people seem to carry with them. I agree with you, Bioware should have designated the servers so that like minded people can be together...but then the pvp server would probably be dead and ruined within 6 mths anyways, cause that's just the sort of effect that comes with the pvp designation and the crowd that populate them.

 

BC has a nice easy going community as well. We are no more lookong forward to our peace being wrecked by a forced server merg with harb then you are the possibility of them moving to SF. Either way, someones going to end up in a place with a community they really dont want to deal with. Personally I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Cant really do much about it but there is a high chance for the first time ever I will be scrambling to turn off general chat.

 

Even at 90cc a transfer, no way I could afford to transfer 25+ toons in the time we had.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Suzsi

[JennyFlynn]

See, that's something else I don't get Rata, people like me don't use the LFG tool, I don't play group stuff, like...ever. I may have to in order to get the gross Hexid comp, just because she might have something to say about our comps...and even that feels like Bioware is holding a gun to my head. I've not yet decided if it's worth it. So, if you get a whole bunch of people who think like me, just because there are many of us, doesn't mean the LFG queues will pop in a steady stream. There could be a 100 people like me that sit in their houses or do dailies and story and never seek another soul to do anything with.

 

Yeah that's a good point--numbers aren't everything. You can move to a server with 100 active players but find only 20 of them engage in group content/LFG stuff, or remain on a server that only has 50 players but all 50 of those people do group stuff.

[Ratajack]

Why do you always use the term “LFG fodder”. Are you trying to be offensive because it certainly comes across that way.

 

 

One of the definitions of fodder is:

 

readily available material used to supply a heavy demand

 

In this case, that would equate to a large number of readily available players to meet the demands of the LFG tool and those who rely upon it.

[TrixxieTriss]

I get what you're saying, and yes, that minority of nasty loudmouths do ruin it for a lot of people, even other pvpers. I get that there are good ones, they just seem so few and far between. The bad, they're like a virus. It often feels the other way around, like 5% are nice people that like that sort of play and the other 95% are a wretched hive of scum and villainy, just because they are so loud, mean, and omnipresent. I just don't have the mindset for it, I look at killing another player, like 'you're giving them a bad day, or a hard time.' I was even that way when I played pvp games, I tended to leave people alone in the field and only do the pvp at the designated seige time in the designated place. And I don't even have it in me anymore to do even that much. :/

 

From my pvp experience, I find there are only 1-2 people in any reg match that even communicate these days. There may be the occasional incoming call, but that’s about it for the vast majority of players. But there is usually one or two people every other match who is a loud mouth and tries to stir up trouble. Usually they’ll get one or two people to try and get them to shut up, but that only makes it worse. The problem is it’s usually only one or two people in the queue doing it and if you pop every other match with them, it seems there are lots of these toxic people around.

A vast majority of pvpers just stay quite and hope these people go away or shut up when they get no responses. Most pvpers just want to go about their business and not get involved in discussions with these people. We are the silent majority because speaking up only gives these toxic people what they crave.

I believe I was even being conservative saying there are only 5% of toxic pvpers, there are probably less than 3%. But they are loud and love to shout from the roof tops. It gives all pvpers a bad name.

Edited November 8, 2017 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

One of the definitions of fodder is:

 

readily available material used to supply a heavy demand

 

In this case, that would equate to a large number of readily available players to meet the demands of the LFG tool and those who rely upon it.

 

Sure, but that’s not how your use of it comes across. When you use it in a sentence it comes across as a shortened version of “cannon fodder”.

Which the Cambridge dictionary describes as :

“If you describe soldiers as cannon fodder, you mean that they are not considered important by their officers and are sent into war without their leaders worrying if they die”.

So the way you use the term seems to say that there are these players who just want numbers so they can farm people or get their content done and don’t care about anyone else.

That is a very cynical view of other players and it is offensive to people who aren’t like that.

[Ratajack]

Yeah that's a good point--numbers aren't everything. You can move to a server with 100 active players but find only 20 of them engage in group content/LFG stuff, or remain on a server that only has 50 players but all 50 of those people do group stuff.

 

I expect that both servers will see a brief increase in PVE and PVP LFG activity as people try to complete the requirements for Darth Hexid and the accompanying achievements. After that initial surge, we should be able to get a better idea of activity for each server.

 

After the cutoff for the Darth Hexid companion, maybe some will post their average wait times for queue pops, along with the time of day, for their respective servers.

 

That will give those who rely upon the LFG tool a better idea of which server is the better for their needs.

 

Hopefully, we'll also get some posts that will provide insight on the general communities for each server for those that prefer to RP or simply would prefer a quieter and more respectful server.

[Ratajack]

Sure, but that’s not how your use of it comes across. When you use it in a sentence it comes across as a shortened version of “cannon fodder”.

Which the Cambridge dictionary describes as :

“If you describe soldiers as cannon fodder, you mean that they are not considered important by their officers and are sent into war without their leaders worrying if they die”.

So the way you use the term seems to say that there are these players who just want numbers so they can farm people or get their content done and don’t care about anyone else.

That is a very cynical view of other players and it is offensive to people who aren’t like that.

 

Are you saying that the majority of the "Merge servers NOW!!!!" crowd actually cared one iota about the players with whom they were grouped other than as a means to an end, IE to get their content done?

 

I'm not saying that everyone displays that attitude, but, in my experience, it does seem to be a very prevalent attitude among those who rely upon the LFG tool for their group content.

 

I would guess that if more of those who were reliant upon the LFG tool for their group content actually cared about, and saw, those with whom they were grouped as people and not just as a means to an end (to get their content done), there would not be so many who refuse to use the LFG tool.

 

How many posters in the various "Merge servers NOW!!!" threads indicated that they did not use the LFG tool due to the toxicity that is so prevalent in so many groups formed by that tool?

[DWho]

I expect that both servers will see a brief increase in PVE and PVP LFG activity as people try to complete the requirements for Darth Hexid and the accompanying achievements. After that initial surge, we should be able to get a better idea of activity for each server.

 

After the cutoff for the Darth Hexid companion, maybe some will post their average wait times for queue pops, along with the time of day, for their respective servers.

 

That will give those who rely upon the LFG tool a better idea of which server is the better for their needs.

 

Hopefully, we'll also get some posts that will provide insight on the general communities for each server for those that prefer to RP or simply would prefer a quieter and more respectful server.

 

Another thing to remember is that shortly after the merge it will no longer be necessary to do PVP to gain Unassembled Components. I think that is going to have a big impact on queue times as the people who were doing it just for the components (whether they be AFKers or people who are actually trying) are a rather large part of the current "PVP" queue population. That was already starting to show up before the mergers were announced as people got to their full sets of 248 gear and no longer needed to queue for PVP to complete them.

[Suzsi]

Are you saying that the majority of the "Merge servers NOW!!!!" crowd actually cared one iota about the players with whom they were grouped other than as a means to an end, IE to get their content done?

 

I'm not saying that everyone displays that attitude, but, in my experience, it does seem to be a very prevalent attitude among those who rely upon the LFG tool for their group content.

 

I would guess that if more of those who were reliant upon the LFG tool for their group content actually cared about, and saw, those with whom they were grouped as people and not just as a means to an end (to get their content done), there would not be so many who refuse to use the LFG tool.

 

How many posters in the various "Merge servers NOW!!!" threads indicated that they did not use the LFG tool due to the toxicity that is so prevalent in so many groups formed by that tool?

 

This is sadly very much how it is with PUGs. The we must finish this asap crowd as opposed to those who wanna do it just for fun. I am in the preferred fun crowd. If people where happy to mooch through group fps, do the bonus and kill the trash along the way rather then omgz this is taking more than 5 mins get out now folks it would be a much more enjoyable experience but it will never happen.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Save up some CCs then come join us on Satele. I have cookies and pizza!

 

Cookies and pizza? I'm sold.

 

I was thinking of creating one character on Satele Shan after the merger so I could get an idea for myself how the climate is, and better gauge which server is going to be best for me. If Star Forge becomes the largest server and becomes toxic, I'll most definitely be moving everyone.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Yeah that's a good point--numbers aren't everything. You can move to a server with 100 active players but find only 20 of them engage in group content/LFG stuff, or remain on a server that only has 50 players but all 50 of those people do group stuff.

 

I think that's one of the critical points that was overlooked by some of the pro-merger lot. They might have more people on the server but it doesn't mean those people will be interested in doing PvP or PUG stuff. Many of us really would rather turn off the game than to group up, particularly with strangers. Others *do* group but very selectively, with friends and guild mates, and thus still are not in the LFG/PUG pool.

 

I mentioned in another thread or two that I'm very upset with the way that Darth Hexid is being handled - you'd think they had learned by Iokath and Oricon that trying to force people to group with strangers doesn't work well. Yeah, even if they suffer through those three flashpoints or whatever, it doesn't mean they will find it enjoyable or continue doing it. They'll likely grit their teeth, endure something they find totally stressful and unpleasant, and run in the other direction. Plus. as mentioned the attitudes of people in PUGS don't help - impatience, rushing, toxic behavior, etc.

 

Having said that, I was really touched by the way many volunteered to help in the Darth Hexid thread, and if I do overcome my severe anxiety enough to go for it, I'll be trying to go in with some of those nice folks.

[Lunafox]

BC has a nice easy going community as well. We are no more lookong forward to our peace being wrecked by a forced server merg with harb then you are the possibility of them moving to SF. Either way, someones going to end up in a place with a community they really dont want to deal with. Personally I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Cant really do much about it but there is a high chance for the first time ever I will be scrambling to turn off general chat.

 

Even at 90cc a transfer, no way I could afford to transfer 25+ toons in the time we had.

 

I'm sorry You're right though, it sounds like quite possibly some of us are going to get our peace wrecked. I wouldn't wish it on anyone either. I don't understand why the devs keep thinking that throwing us tamer sorts to the lions is a good idea? Some people are just not meant to be together. I agree, it seems I'll be figuring out how to shut off my chats as well, I've not had to do that before. As you say, even with the cheap transfers, it's more than I want to spend, because I don't want to split my 46 toon legacy. They stay together, whether I stay or go. I hope it'll be okay. I feel a bit lied to...we might get to retain all our SHs and deco, banks and clothing slots, but our peace and enjoyment of the game surroundings may be shot all to hell. I can understand how some people feel lied to about various things. I guess we'll have to see how it goes.

[Tahana]

I'm sorry You're right though, it sounds like quite possibly some of us are going to get our peace wrecked. I wouldn't wish it on anyone either. I don't understand why the devs keep thinking that throwing us tamer sorts to the lions is a good idea? Some people are just not meant to be together. I agree, it seems I'll be figuring out how to shut off my chats as well, I've not had to do that before. As you say, even with the cheap transfers, it's more than I want to spend, because I don't want to split my 46 toon legacy. They stay together, whether I stay or go. I hope it'll be okay. I feel a bit lied to...we might get to retain all our SHs and deco, banks and clothing slots, but our peace and enjoyment of the game surroundings may be shot all to hell. I can understand how some people feel lied to about various things. I guess we'll have to see how it goes.

 

Well you can do what I do.. Just don't go to fleet. I avoid it pretty much at all costs. I show up there only on ops nights and when I need to for various game reasons. Or set up your client to put /1 etc into a window you don't have to look at unless you want to. There are ways mechanically to remove yourself from that junk, but still be able to enjoy the game.

[Lendul]

Because they’ll have even less people to play with than is they had just merged and left the server on the west coast.

People dont actually realise how many of the APAC community pvp’d and how many of the west coast players will leave because of the server move. As a guesstimate, I would say SS will lose atleast a third of the amount of people it would have if it had stayed on the west coast.

You have to remember that these people who will transfer are ones that need a high population to do group stuff with. If the population drops by a third, then those people will transfer to a higher population.

 

Anyone that thinks SS isn't going to be the largest server is kidding themselves or hoping against hope. Both servers should have good queues, but I doubt Harbinger natives will even notice a difference. It was already a mega server. The only reason people might transfer off of SS is to get away from BBB to actually have a chance at Conquest.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Lendul

[DanNV]

Anyone that thinks SS isn't going to be the largest server is kidding themselves or hoping against hope. Both servers should have good queues, but I doubt Harbinger natives will even notice a difference. It was already a mega server. The only reason people might transfer off of SS is to get away from BBB to actually have a chance at Conquest.

 

EH was close to the size of Harby and recently was hitting standard where Harby wasn't. You're adding a very low pop RP server to the Harby population and a totally dead PVP server. You're right when you say Harby people on SS won't see a difference. That's because very little is being added.

 

SF will come out with a larger population. One large server and two smaller but bigger than BC will make for a larger server and that is without the APAC people and the "my ping must be 20 ms or less" people leaving SS. If the population was otherwise, they likely would have consolidated to the West Coast unless they were paying really crazy data center rates there.

[Lendul]

EH was close to the size of Harby and recently was hitting standard where Harby wasn't.

You are working under the assumption the two servers had the same population cap and server resources.

[Keta]

This is sadly very much how it is with PUGs. The we must finish this asap crowd as opposed to those who wanna do it just for fun. I am in the preferred fun crowd. If people where happy to mooch through group fps, do the bonus and kill the trash along the way rather then omgz this is taking more than 5 mins get out now folks it would be a much more enjoyable experience but it will never happen.

 

Exactly the reason I never ever use the LFG tool. In fact it's the reason I don't group outside of a guild I might be in.

[Strife]

I have a feeling that once they open up sever transfers that Satele Shan will become the "quite" and or "dead" server. It won't happen immediately, but over time.

 

Towards the end of SWG people started to all flock to a single server (Starsider) trying to find more people to play with. It sounded like a good thing at first, but when everyone from Bria (SWG's Harbringer) started to transfer onto Starsider it was a nightmare for the Starsider community. I could easily see history repeating itself here. Especially if the people on Satele Shan find they don't like the one notorious community they are being forced to merge with.

 

Once that happens, the Harbringer trolls will follow the masses onto Star Forge.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Strife

[TrixxieTriss]

Once the server is up and running, can some people post fleet and SH planet populations for Satele

[IoNonSoEVero]

I have a feeling that once they open up sever transfers that Satele Shan will become the "quite" and or "dead" server. It won't happen immediately, but over time.

 

Towards the end of SWG people started to all flock to a single server (Starsider) trying to find more people to play with. It sounded like a good thing at first, but when everyone from Bria (SWG's Harbringer) started to transfer onto Starsider it was a nightmare for the Starsider community. I could easily see history repeating itself here. Especially if the people on Satele Shan find they don't like the one notorious community they are being forced to merge with.

 

Once that happens, the Harbringer trolls will follow the masses onto Star Forge.

 

Complicating this further, I did hear that there were people on BC who were upset about the pending merger with Harbinger, and already high-tailed it to Star Forge.

 

I really hope I don't end up having to go to the trouble to move everyone to Satele Shan, but it might very well end up being that way.

[TrixxieTriss]

I have a feeling that once they open up sever transfers that Satele Shan will become the "quite" and or "dead" server. It won't happen immediately, but over time.

 

Towards the end of SWG people started to all flock to a single server (Starsider) trying to find more people to play with. It sounded like a good thing at first, but when everyone from Bria (SWG's Harbringer) started to transfer onto Starsider it was a nightmare for the Starsider community. I could easily see history repeating itself here. Especially if the people on Satele Shan find they don't like the one notorious community they are being forced to merge with.

 

Once that happens, the Harbringer trolls will follow the masses onto Star Forge.

 

I give it 2 months max till SS is mostly solo players and a ghost town for group players

 

I see trolls migration happening too. Trolls need food to troll.

[BurningHeavy]

I'm not so sure about that.

 

Harbinger may be/have been the single most populated server, but I think the combined populations of Ebon Hawk, Jedi Covenant and Shadowlands are/were substantially higher than the population of Harbinger, even after many of the players on those three servers transferred to Harbinger and factoring in the APAC community, many of whom are going to be leaving the game, if they have not left the game yet.

 

I would expect that The Starforge will initially be the higher population server after the merges.

 

How the player base will sort itself out after the merges remains to be seen.

 

 

Will the players on Satele Shan who rely upon the LFG tool for their PVP and PVE group content transfer to the The Starforge?

 

Will those players that desire a quieter, more respectful server, with a community that accepts the RP contingent migrate to Satele Shan?

 

Just my 2 sense, but I think the best RP option is to stay out of general chat. You avoid trolls (they won't know to troll if they don't see the RP) and any kinky **** that starts happening isn't public.

 

I just hope the bros who hang out on thrones at the steps of the Academy at Korriban don't go anywhere. ***** dope.

[Fallensouls]

Honestly they shoulda spent a little more and went with a mega server. But also who cares where the server is located, they shoulda made both servers just plain US servers, because location doesn't matter at this point.