Commanding Legacy and mirror classes

[Alssaran]

Well before Blizzard jumped into the MMO world nope, and S.O.E was the master at building crappy code.

 

One has to admire that Blizzard will rarely say that something isn't possible, but rather opt to say the truth and admit it isn't feasible. They usually scrap stuff because it is a bad idea, isn't feasible in the long run, didn't deliver the intended results or they just had a cup of coffee and thought "what were we thinking there?"

 

I can't remember them during the past three years that I've been back ever saying something "can't be coded." I remember that Ion once commented on how it was difficult to change the sixteen space standard bag because it was hard-coded into all kinds of systems, but he said that they are working on that too. It's not a question of if, but rather when this happens.

 

Gotta' hand it to Blizzard: Their development game is usually pretty neat. They usually find a (sometimes messy) way and the game keeps running.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Alssaran

[Makkoo]

Hey folks,

 

thering the notes for 5.5, I didn’t realize that limitation had been put in place and it wasn’t caught during internal review. None of this is meant as an excuse, you should have had this information before today and it should have been in the notes. I apologize for that not being communicated, that’s on me.

 

The above information has been added into the patch notes for clarity, we hope that you still get to enjoy the benefits of increased CXP as you rank up in Galactic Command.

 

Thanks!

 

-eric

 

 

Your lack of communication skills will have cost hundreds of hours farming cxp for nothing. Seriously guys pull your fingers out of your asses and stop screwing the ever-shrinking player base who, against common sense, still love this game.

That's a pure royal **** up you did there. :mad::mad::mad::mad:

[Totemdancer]

One has to admire that Blizzard will rarely say that something isn't possible, but rather opt to say the truth and admit it isn't feasible. They usually scrap stuff because it is a bad idea, isn't feasible in the long run, didn't deliver the intended results or they just had a cup of coffee and thought "what were we thinking there?"

 

I can't remember them during the past three years that I've been back ever saying something "can't be coded." I remember that Ion once commented on how it was difficult to change the sixteen space standard bag because it was hard-coded into all kinds of systems, but he said that they are working on that too. It's not a question of if, but rather when this happens.

 

Gotta' hand it to Blizzard: Their development game is usually pretty neat. They usually find a (sometimes messy) way and the game keeps running.

 

And they have a 100 times more resources than Bioware does on this game. Blizzard can afford to do all those things you mentioned and give new content or fix stuff. Bioware have to choose because they can only do one thing at a time. That means things that could be done and probably should be done, often move down the priority list as something else might need doing first.

I think we are all frustrated that this is the way Bioware have been forced to operate because EA won’t fund the game properly. But comparing them to Blizzard isn’t fair, it’s like comparing a one man builder to multi-billion dollar developer building a suburb.

[Alssaran]

I think we are all frustrated that this is the way Bioware have been forced to operate because EA won’t fund the game properly. But comparing them to Blizzard isn’t fair, it’s like comparing a one man builder to multi-billion dollar developer building a suburb.

 

I did not compare the two. I stated that one has to admire Blizzard for how well they can code and design. One thing doesn't imply the other. Calm your jets.

[Vagessel]

I don't want to sound ungrateful. Before today the bonus was capped at 25%. This new setup is better.

 

BUT . . .

 

I've been preparing since it was first announced with four 300's, grinding like mad only to find my efforts were to some degree wasted. That's annoying, to put it mildly. Now that CXP is back to *intended* levels, getting 4 levels is a hard work endeavor necessitating a weekend day for a normal person to pull.

 

And this is the rub - for a "normal" person. meaning someone with a job and other interests, hobbies or relationships. Playing 2-3 hours a night is a fair commitment. It would probably be healthier to play less. Let's say two hours per night. Achieving a character to 300 without the dailies bug is an achievement from hell.

 

Doing that four times is beyond an achievement for that hypothetical "healthy" player. But now it's required that that be done with classes that someone might not even enjoy. In my case, while I thought the agent story was nice, they play stile of "cover" for Sniper or that of the Operative are just not my cup of tea, and now I find I need to play that to that 300 level. C'mon. 300 on four characters is achievement enough. Don't make it have to be on a class that a given player may not enjoy at all.

 

For that reason I'll implore whoever can change this to what was originally advertised (admittedly in error) as 25% per character in a future patch.

 

Thank you.

[ivanhedgehog]

While it is disappointing to hear that, I am grateful that you have admitted the mistake and said we should have been given this info back with the road map (could have been earlier IMO).

This change in policy in taking responsibility for mistakes like this is a good step in the right direction and is restoring some of my faith that you guys don’t hide from them or brush them under the rug.

As much as we dont like mistakes, especially ones that can affect people significantly, I hope this policy of transparency continues and filters into some other parts of the game. (Odds on RNG boxes for both CM and CXP;))

 

no one took responsibility for anything....oops I didnt know so it wasnt in the patch notes is a line of *********. Change management should have caught this. proper change management would make creating patch notes just transcribing the bullet points. if this is working as intended, then they intended for it to work this way. so much for listening to feedback.

[Totemdancer]

no one took responsibility for anything....oops I didnt know so it wasnt in the patch notes is a line of *********. Change management should have caught this. proper change management would make creating patch notes just transcribing the bullet points. if this is working as intended, then they intended for it to work this way. so much for listening to feedback.

 

I think you should read the post again. Eric said they should have done it and was sorry they didn’t. I can’t remember ever seeing them say something like that in the past. You can be damn sure Ben never said that.

That is admitting a mistake and responsibility. I’m not sure how you think differently. What would you like them to do, get onto their hands and knees and beg for your forgiveness?

I think we can all agree it’s a bad mistake and should have been caught. I’m not arguing it’s not, but they did apologise and take responsibility which earns them a little respect from me.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Totemdancer

[dscount]

This by far is yet another "GG Biofail" in my eyes. :mad::mad:

 

WHY does it matter what class we play? We had to grind the f'in character to 300 and it should count.

WHO thought this was a great idea? Is Ben back or something? Why didn't this get communicated a MONTH ago?

 

I suggest someone get a hotfix going in ASAP as this is just going to turn people away now. Forcing them to play classes they hate and grind with the recently nerfed to death dailies is just stupid. Some folks barely got 3-4 characters to level 400 let alone different ones.

Edited October 11, 2017 by dscount

[TheGreatHambino]

I assume Eric or Keith, this will be looked at seriously, because you really cannot afford to ignore this issue.

Of course they'll ignore it. They ignored pleas to keep daily CXP where it was at, they ignored the feedback on all the nerfs (even though they asked for input), and they ignored PTS feedback on multiple releases.

 

We've been firmly placed onto their "Pay no mind" list.

[ivanhedgehog]

I think you should read the post again. Eric said they should have done it and was sorry they didn’t. I can’t remember ever seeing them say something like that in the past. You can be damn sure Ben never said that.

That is admitting a mistake and responsibility. I’m not sure how you think differently. What would you like them to do, get onto their hands and knees and beg for your forgiveness?

I think we can all agree it’s a bad mistake and should have been caught. I’m not arguing it’s not, but they did apologise and take responsibility which earns them a little respect from me.

everytime they "forgot" something in the patch notes they said the same thing. Oops they overlooked it.

[Tormen_Starwind]

Great job there! Opps we forgot to tell you?! Really??

 

Just wasted 72 hours of grinding another merc up when I could have done another class. Instead biofail just screwed me over. And you wonder with this why you bleed out subs and are merging down to 5 servers?!?!

 

This garbage and incompetence gets real old real fast. There better be a real fast fix on this one or it wont be pretty.

 

Here's your road map everyone, now follow it by turning left right now and going off the cliff! Way to screw the pooch!

Edited October 11, 2017 by Tormen_Starwind

[Highlandscot]

I think you should read the post again. Eric said they should have done it and was sorry they didn’t. I can’t remember ever seeing them say something like that in the past. You can be damn sure Ben never said that.

That is admitting a mistake and responsibility. I’m not sure how you think differently. What would you like them to do, get onto their hands and knees and beg for your forgiveness?

I think we can all agree it’s a bad mistake and should have been caught. I’m not arguing it’s not, but they did apologise and take responsibility which earns them a little respect from me.

 

Saying "Gosh we're real sorry" ex post facto for something that so severely impacts players is not taking responsibility. My two guildmates and I quite literally spent the last week leveling alts to Command 300, and for me that was 2 Operatives and a Scoundrel, while one guildie ran up 3 Mercenaries, based on what was posted. Now we learn that we're getting NOTHING for the "mirrors"?

 

What I would "have them do" as you mentioned is hot patch the code to reflect a 25% bonus for each alt that is at Command Level 300, just like they posted weeks ago. That is not too much to expect for a mistake of this magnitude.

[Lord_Martheous]

I just don't get this. I'm a very casual player, maybe 3-5 hours per WEEK! My highest rank is 163, and that took me a while to get there. BW must be out of their minds if they think I'm gonna grind any other toon's to ANY 3-digit level.

 

Quite honestly, I have better things to do with my life than to try to do this awful grind with any other characters.

 

Seems to me that some personnel at EA/BW are in desperate need of unemployment....

Edited October 11, 2017 by Lord_Martheous

[Totemdancer]

everytime they "forgot" something in the patch notes they said the same thing. Oops they overlooked it.

 

It’s a bit more than just overlooking the patch notes. Go back and read it again.

[ThrakhathSpawn]

It sounds like some people affected by this may have accounts that go; "oops, we forgot to have accurate payment information going forwards".

 

In my case it will be, oops, I forgot to buy another game time card. Although this isn't much of an issue for me as I don't chase CXP.

 

The bit in the road map about "huge reward for random que-ing" is my throw in the towel thing. This just means people that don't enjoy flash point X are likely to get spawned into flash point X. And if I like flashpoint X and only que for flashpoint X, we will both have a *very* grumpy time of it! (Written by someone that cleared Blood Hunt by repeated solo-queing as it originally launched, pre nerf.)

 

Not to mention there are work arounds to the random thing, although most in the grinding wheel are to nose to the ground to figure it out.

[czallow]

I am done at this point, same **** every time with this game.

[xRohanx]

At least they’ve admitted a mistake like this, which I can’t ever remember seeing. If we see less of these mistakes and more transparency when something happens, at least it restores some faith they are taking responsibility. Remember they are human, mistakes happen (even when they shouldn’t). But i respect them more if they come clean and I’m less likely to rage at them or quit.

It's a really bad tactic, when developers are always "forgetting" to say something. Something very important, every update. The quantity of mistakes goes into quality of game. They silently nerfed FP loot and finally force players to grind CXP with classes that players do not like. Apology is just a cover. Developers will do what they have decided, regardless of feedback. This is a sad reality.

Edited October 11, 2017 by xRohanx

[JLazarillo]

The bit in the road map about "huge reward for random que-ing" is my throw in the towel thing. This just means people that don't enjoy flash point X are likely to get spawned into flash point X. And if I like flashpoint X and only que for flashpoint X, we will both have a *very* grumpy time of it! (Written by someone that cleared Blood Hunt by repeated solo-queing as it originally launched, pre nerf.)

I think the issue is that, no matter how good they make the rewards, it's pointless if the rewards are not feasible. If 80% of PUGs are going to be unable to handle a particular FP or Op, and implode as a result, then even if they increase rewards tenfold, it still won't motivate anyone towards the content.

 

I hope that this means that the new systems for queuing and such are made to take these things into account, and make content inherently more accessible, rather than just a flat rewards buff. We're in this weird place with group content in this game (and honestly, I feel like we've been there for at least a couple of years, really), where there's no problem with the amount of carrot. What we need is a reduction in stick.

[Totemdancer]

It does seem there is a lot of negative push back with 3 main things in this patch because servers have now gone back to light during prime time.

[NikSunrider]

Hey uh -- home come we have 8 achievements for hitting 300 with each base class and they don't autocomplete with mirrors? i mean if you're gonna do it with the perk you might as well do it for achievements too.

[Aardvara]

This by far is yet another "GG Biofail" in my eyes. :mad::mad:

 

WHY does it matter what class we play? We had to grind the f'in character to 300 and it should count.

WHO thought this was a great idea? Is Ben back or something? Why didn't this get communicated a MONTH ago?

 

I suggest someone get a hotfix going in ASAP as this is just going to turn people away now. Forcing them to play classes they hate and grind with the recently nerfed to death dailies is just stupid. Some folks barely got 3-4 characters to level 400 let alone different ones.

 

I am not one to gripe....I agree this is a total screw-up...not much came out from this update for my style of play and it has been a long wait. I grind and have 21 max 300 CXP characters and you tell me I am not getting the full bonus because I didn't grind toons from classes I hate. Sorry guys/gals....you messed up big time...and this should be fixed now, not November.

[ThrakhathSpawn]

For those that want to know how/why, these work just like you gain your class buffs, just they invisible.

 

The same coding is registering your main class at 300, and granting the 25% buff hidden.

 

There are limitations in the way they implemented it just like Eric says; but that doesn't mean they could implement it differently.

 

Still, it is only a buff to get to 300, and does nothing for you at the serious RNG grind.

Edited October 11, 2017 by ThrakhathSpawn

[Glzmo]

Hey folks,

 

I verified with the team and the current implementation is intended, but I am seeing some confusion around the perk so let me explain how it works. Every time you hit Command Rank 300 on one of the mirrored base Classes (more on that in a sec) you get a 25% bonus to the base value for CXP gains. Since there are four sets of mirrors, you can gain four stacks of this buff, up to a total of 100%. It looks like this:

• Any Knight or Warrior to 300 adds +25%
  
• Any Consular or Inquisitor to 300 adds +25%
  
• Any Smuggler or Agent to 300 adds +25%
  
• Any Trooper or Bounty Hunter to 300 adds +25%

 

Separately, I know there are questions about how we communicated (or didn�t) around this perk and so let me explain what happened. When Keith put information on the perk in the roadmap, it was meant to be fairly general, but we realize if we had been more specific we could have saved some of this frustration. The requirements for the perk were born out of some technical limitations which prevented us from giving you a bonus for any character which hit 300 (such as multiple Sith Warriors). As I was gathering the notes for 5.5, I didn�t realize that limitation had been put in place and it wasn�t caught during internal review. None of this is meant as an excuse, you should have had this information before today and it should have been in the notes. I apologize for that not being communicated, that�s on me.

 

The above information has been added into the patch notes for clarity, we hope that you still get to enjoy the benefits of increased CXP as you rank up in Galactic Command.

 

Thanks!

 

-eric

Thanks for this. The situation is simply inacceptable, and we're already loosing players due to this already!

 

Considering of what you communicated before and how it really works, I propose the following changes to the perk in a hotfix (read within the next week, not in a month or two!):

• Any Knight or Warrior to 300 adds +100%
  
• Any Consular or Inquisitor to 300 adds +100%
  
• Any Smuggler or Agent to 300 adds +100%
  
• Any Trooper or Bounty Hunter to 300 adds +100%

This will ensure that everyone gets their promised +100% and actually make the perk really useful by going up to a fun +400% CXP (let's face it, 100% is still peanuts with the low CXP payouts for quests, etc., and +400% isn't all that much either but it makes everything feel less like a grind and more fun, having which is the goal of playing a game after all) for those that invest the time to grind up all classes. Still not ideal, as ideally you would get the bonus per character, but I think it's a good compromise that would show goodwill on your part, make players happy,and encourage them to play more.

 

PS.: Citing "technical reasons" is really BS, it can't be so hard to implement a counter on how many characters you got to 300 that gets incremented and applies the multiplier and putting a cap on there. Your coders could probably take the code for stronghold conquest bonus and it's cap to code something suitable in a couple of hours, if not minutes (if not, then you should clearly employ better coders). Or you could count Advanced Classes instead of classes and cap it at whatever the maximum is.

 

PPS.: By the way, the perk seems to be bugged right now.

I have Knight, Consular and Smuggler at 300. I have purchased the Commanding Legacy Perk (before 5.5). This means I should get a 75% Bonus to all CXP. With a below-300-Command-Rank-character (no CXP buffs, no light/dakr bonus, no "Improved Command Experience" perks), I'm getting 206 CXP for a daily quest (you said was now supposedly 75CXP without any buffs), including double CXP. This isn't right.

You get 75 CXP for a daily quest now. From the perk, I should get an additional 75*0.75 = 56.25 CXP. Double that and it should be: [75 + (75*0.75)]*2 = 262.5 CXP

 

Is: 206 CXP

Should be with 3 classes at 300: 262.5 CXP

It's missing 56.5 CXP, which is around the bonus the perk should give me with 3 classes at 300. So there is definitely something fishy going on here besides the fast one you guys pulled on us.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Glzmo

[Totemdancer]

Thanks for this. The situation is simply inacceptable, and we're already loosing players due to this again!

 

Considering of what you communicated before and how it really works, I propose the following changes to the perk in a hotfix (read within the next week, not in a month or two!):

• Any Knight or Warrior to 300 adds +100%
  
• Any Consular or Inquisitor to 300 adds +100%
  
• Any Smuggler or Agent to 300 adds +100%
  
• Any Trooper or Bounty Hunter to 300 adds +100%

This will ensure that everyone gets their promised +100% and actually make the perk really useful by going up to a fun +400% CXP (let's face it, 100% is still peanuts with the low CXP payouts for quests, etc.) for those that invest the time to grind up all classes. Still not ideal, as ideally you would get the bonus per character, but I think it's a good compromise that would make players happy and encourage them to play more.

 

+ 1 support this idea

[LeMage]

Thanks for this. The situation is simply inacceptable, and we're already loosing players due to this again!

 

Considering of what you communicated before and how it really works, I propose the following changes to the perk in a hotfix (read within the next week, not in a month or two!):

• Any Knight or Warrior to 300 adds +100%
  
• Any Consular or Inquisitor to 300 adds +100%
  
• Any Smuggler or Agent to 300 adds +100%
  
• Any Trooper or Bounty Hunter to 300 adds +100%

This will ensure that everyone gets their promised +100% and actually make the perk really useful by going up to a fun +400% CXP (let's face it, 100% is still peanuts with the low CXP payouts for quests, etc.) for those that invest the time to grind up all classes. Still not ideal, as ideally you would get the bonus per character, but I think it's a good compromise that would make players happy and encourage them to play more.

 

This ^ would make me less irritated by this whole 'mirror class' fiasco.