The Eternal Alliance Needs To End

[Eshvara]

Maybe the palace will come with a certain romance *wink*

 

🤗Yes pleaseeeeee!!!!

[orangenee]

My palace will redefine "dry spell".

[Tsillah]

My former wraith has done being somebody's wraith and doesn't consider herself a sith anymore. She has found a home in the alliance and evolved beyond the Imp vs. Pub mindset. Sure she might still has some prejudice against the Republic as a whole but she no longer consider them as the enemy. And she has become friends and allies with many of them. Reverting back to the old faction war will done a disservice to what she has accomplished.

So no, I don't want the Alliance to end. It'll be OK if they offer a choice and dod separate storylines but I don't know if they have the resources to pull it off.

 

I assume you meant wrath?

 

There is no alliance though. There are three factions: Empire, Republic and Zakuul. They are not allied in the larger story. Since your characters can choose to ally either with the Empire or the Republic, this alliance is a side note. It cannot be used to build on because people make different choices.

 

Bottom line is that there isn't an alliance. Just what's left of an alliance force that has now taken over Zakuul as invaders. The Empire and Republic still are their own factions.

 

The alliance story needs to end because there is no alliance and it's silly to keep acting as if there is. After the emperor was beaten some people went back home and others started working against us in the meantime.

 

Whether you choose light or dark side, there simply is no real alliance of factions. The factions are still separate.

[OldVengeance]

Obviously there IS an "Alliance". They aren't officially part of the Republic or Empire anymore, they are a third faction. They didn't just disappear or go back to their old factions with the fall of the Eternal Empire.

[light_senshi]

Going back to the Republic or the Empire simply doesn't make sense for every character? What about the one that wants power...and will do whatever it takes to get/keep it. When "Evil Overlord" does fit the character, why would they share power (or submit to someone else)?

[Tsillah]

Obviously there IS an "Alliance". They aren't officially part of the Republic or Empire anymore, they are a third faction. They didn't just disappear or go back to their old factions with the fall of the Eternal Empire.

They took over Zakuul. Valkorion called it the Eternal Empire. Because we have republic or more to the point light side characters they had to give it a new name. But it's not really an alliance, it's a group of defectors from the Empire and Republic who formed an allied force that ended up taking over the Eternal Empire. It's still the Eternal Empire, it just got renamed to suit the light side players.

 

In the end though, it's not really an alliance in the political sense, especially if you're a dark side character. You become Emperor or Empress. With that title it's an Empire you rule, not an alliance. If you want to consider it an alliance at first, I can see that, but the moment that Valkorion was beaten that alliance was over.

[Eshvara]

Doesn't Theron want to "end the alliance" ?

[Tsillah]

Doesn't Theron want to "end the alliance" ?

 

That remains to be seen. I don't see it as an alliance but it's still called an alliance in game and I'm sure they'll stick to that.

 

What Theron wants to do is more mysterious. He looks like he wants to end the alliance, but he may be inflitrating this secretive faction to protect the alliance such as it is.

 

So the jury's still out on that.

 

The thing is though, I don't see him supporting a dark side version of the situation. My Sith Inquisitor is Empress. She's not the nice champion the light side version has. So would Theron really support that type of rule? I don't think so.

 

So the question becomes, will there be different outcomes for dark and light side to this story? And if so what does that mean for the rest of the story?

 

It ties in to the whole machine gods theme I suppose. But for me the best thing is that this "alliance" theme stops entirely. As I explained I don't recognise it as an alliance but even if you do, this third faction thing was not a good idea really. So the sooner we can get it over with the better.

[OldVengeance]

They took over Zakuul. Valkorion called it the Eternal Empire. Because we have republic or more to the point light side characters they had to give it a new name. But it's not really an alliance, it's a group of defectors from the Empire and Republic who formed an allied force that ended up taking over the Eternal Empire. It's still the Eternal Empire, it just got renamed to suit the light side players.

 

In the end though, it's not really an alliance in the political sense, especially if you're a dark side character. You become Emperor or Empress. With that title it's an Empire you rule, not an alliance. If you want to consider it an alliance at first, I can see that, but the moment that Valkorion was beaten that alliance was over.

 

There was an alliance of defectors of both Republic and Empire that formed a new faction. That Alliance and everyone in it still exists. Then they took control of the Eternal Fleet and renamed themselves so now they are more powerful.

 

They either turned Zakuul into a subject world or allowed it rule itself. In either case though, the Outlander is still the Commander or Emperor/Empress of that Alliance of defectors. They just have more power and resources in addition to what they had before.

Edited September 25, 2017 by OldVengeance

[Tsillah]

There was an alliance of defectors of both Republic and Empire that formed a new faction. That Alliance and everyone in it still exists. Then they took control of the Eternal Fleet and renamed themselves so now they are more powerful.

 

They either turned Zakuul into a subject world or allowed it rule itself. In either case though, the Outlander is still the Commander or Emperor/Empress of that Alliance of defectors. They just have more power and resources in addition to what they had before.

 

You call it an alliance still, I don't. To me it's an alliance in name only. That's not gonna change.

 

Bottom line is that I don't like the whole direction they took with Zakuul and I'll be happy if we can leave it behind. I skip the story lines of KotFE/ET entirely on all my alts. I hope the future brings something more interesting again. In the meantime I am just happy I can bypass those stories entirely and annoyed that I cannot abandon those quests on the few alts I did start KotFE on, cause I have zero intention of completing them.

[OldVengeance]

The thing that made it an Alliance in the first place has not changed over the course of the story. Edited September 25, 2017 by OldVengeance

[Tsillah]

The thing that made it an Alliance in the first place has not changed over the course of the story.

As I told you, neither of us will budge on their opinions. Why continue this line if it's clearly pointless?

 

Whether I consider it an alliance or not doesn't change that I don't like the KotFE/ET story line and I'll be glad if it's abandonded. I will be happy to leave Zakuul behind and go back to the Star Wars Universe.

[MikeCobalt]

For Me,...I think the Alliance should end. As far as I'm concerned its served its purpose and my Gunslinger has no reason or desire to remain the throne holder on that world. As I told Kaliyo I'm only doing this to get *Back the life (and friends) I had before Valkorian and the Fleet turned everything upside down. To Me, If Lana wants to go back to her Empire fine, Theron wants to consider his family (Realistically) that's fine too. During this entire story I always felt Lana only sought us out for a repeat of Reven in making things right for her Empire. Therons Republic so that's a common sense of right and wrong as his reason. I still have Senya and Arcann so I would *Ask Senya if she wants the role (Let her deal with the REformed Arcann) and I would *Graciously step away.

[Paulsutherland]

I quite like the Alliance now, not really interested in another imp vs pub war. If I recall, someone sends you a mail saying the galaxy is running out of resources, surprised both sides are willing to use w/e resources they have left to go at it again - I suppose we could always strip Iokath of it's tech to rebuild the Sith Fleet.

 

Oww ... If I'm going to the Empire, Zakuul is joining the Empire! So many new bodies ... Acina will get one hell of an army overnight.

[Eshvara]

That remains to be seen. I don't see it as an alliance but it's still called an alliance in game and I'm sure they'll stick to that.

 

What Theron wants to do is more mysterious. He looks like he wants to end the alliance, but he may be inflitrating this secretive faction to protect the alliance such as it is.

 

So the jury's still out on that.

 

The thing is though, I don't see him supporting a dark side version of the situation. My Sith Inquisitor is Empress. She's not the nice champion the light side version has. So would Theron really support that type of rule? I don't think so.

 

So the question becomes, will there be different outcomes for dark and light side to this story? And if so what does that mean for the rest of the story?

 

It ties in to the whole machine gods theme I suppose. But for me the best thing is that this "alliance" theme stops entirely. As I explained I don't recognise it as an alliance but even if you do, this third faction thing was not a good idea really. So the sooner we can get it over with the better.

 

I just mean to say that if he feels like the alliance should come to an end, there probably still is an alliance at present.

[Tsillah]

I just mean to say that if he feels like the alliance should come to an end, there probably still is an alliance at present.

Clearly it's called an alliance still in game. So for the game purposes there still is an alliance. My point is simply that I don't think alliance is the correct description, particularly if you follow the dark side option.

 

But regardless of what I or you think about that term alliance, the main point still is that I hope this whole Zakuul business comes to an end soon and we can go back to Star Wars.

[Eshvara]

Clearly it's called an alliance still in game. So for the game purposes there still is an alliance. My point is simply that I don't think alliance is the correct description, particularly if you follow the dark side option.

 

But regardless of what I or you think about that term alliance, the main point still is that I hope this whole Zakuul business comes to an end soon and we can go back to Star Wars.

 

Amen to that! But I do want my palace and my romance.

[Suzsi]

I am one of very few it seems who really has enjoyed KoTFE and KoTET and the direction that SWTOR has taken -- to me it is very Star Wars extended universe. Once the original war between the empire and the republic ended ( due to the 'defeat' of the empire ) an alliance emerged, lead by Mon Mothma and then later on Leia. This alliance, although started by the republic also allowed imperials to step in and join, a new Jedi order was started and so on, thus begining the next cycle

 

-- it seems to me the natural progression of the Star Wars universe. An evil rises up, takes a large control of the galaxy -- good steps in and knocks them back down again and an alliance forms until the next evil rises up and so on. A continued cycle. Within the bounds of Star Wars once the evil's where defeated either a larger evil ( Dark Side characters ) was going to step up and take control or Good was going to ( Lightside ) -- leading into yet another era of oppression or peace ( depending on DS or LS characters in control of the alliance ). Until the cycle begins again. The alliance was the only way it was ever going to go forwards.

 

I also really enjoyed how the chapters were done -- I get not all are but I am all for story, cinematics and so on, it gave me a very KOTOR feel going through KoTFE and KoTET -- something I've not felt since the original KOTOR game ( sorry obsidian but KOTOR 2 was never as good ).

 

The only thing I do really miss is more interactions with the original crew members for each class story and those LI's. It's kinda frustrating how if one can be killed off they are pretty much pushed aside other then brief camo's here and there, I get why, limited budget these days and all -- but it is saddening that we will probably never get extended time/missions/chapters or whatever with some of my favorite characters ever again now because of it. That being said, if it's the only way forward I would rather keep moving forward then having nothing.

[LamiaKan]

 

The only thing I do really miss is more interactions with the original crew members for each class story and those LI's. It's kinda frustrating how if one can be killed off they are pretty much pushed aside other then brief camo's here and there, I get why, limited budget these days and all -- but it is saddening that we will probably never get extended time/missions/chapters or whatever with some of my favorite characters ever again now because of it. That being said, if it's the only way forward I would rather keep moving forward then having nothing.

 

Well there's already few interaction with the original crew beyond the class stories long before Kotfe. At least with Kotfe & Kotet, we get some of them to have a role in the story. In the previous 2 expansions they get 1 line at most and the rest of the time just sort of there. So even on this front I prefer Kofte&Kotet.

[Tsillah]

At least with Kotfe & Kotet, we get some of them to have a role in the story..

 

Even if it kills them...

[Ylliarus]

I am one of very few it seems who really has enjoyed KoTFE and KoTET and the direction that SWTOR has taken -- to me it is very Star Wars extended universe. Once the original war between the empire and the republic ended ( due to the 'defeat' of the empire ) an alliance emerged, lead by Mon Mothma and then later on Leia. This alliance, although started by the republic also allowed imperials to step in and join, a new Jedi order was started and so on, thus begining the next cycle

 

-- it seems to me the natural progression of the Star Wars universe. An evil rises up, takes a large control of the galaxy -- good steps in and knocks them back down again and an alliance forms until the next evil rises up and so on. A continued cycle. Within the bounds of Star Wars once the evil's where defeated either a larger evil ( Dark Side characters ) was going to step up and take control or Good was going to ( Lightside ) -- leading into yet another era of oppression or peace ( depending on DS or LS characters in control of the alliance ). Until the cycle begins again. The alliance was the only way it was ever going to go forwards.

 

I also really enjoyed how the chapters were done -- I get not all are but I am all for story, cinematics and so on, it gave me a very KOTOR feel going through KoTFE and KoTET -- something I've not felt since the original KOTOR game ( sorry obsidian but KOTOR 2 was never as good ).

 

The only thing I do really miss is more interactions with the original crew members for each class story and those LI's. It's kinda frustrating how if one can be killed off they are pretty much pushed aside other then brief camo's here and there, I get why, limited budget these days and all -- but it is saddening that we will probably never get extended time/missions/chapters or whatever with some of my favorite characters ever again now because of it. That being said, if it's the only way forward I would rather keep moving forward then having nothing.

 

And I really support this sentiment, I definitely also see good things and interesting things about the Eternal Alliance. Zakuul is a very interesting addition to the Star Wars lore and I would never have had anything against them if they didn't just came and conquered the galaxy with a godmode fleet. Had they been a third faction on equal terms with the Republic and Empire, maybe slightly more powerful than the other two I would have been happy. But just giving them a godmode Eternal Fleet that can nuke the galaxy anytime they want is far too much.

 

Now that same godmode Eternal Fleet is in the hands of the player character and the Eternal Alliance, which is a mistake of gigantic proportions in my opinion storywise. Also, for those who feel their characters have evolved beyond Empire and Republic sure, you should have the ability to stay and keep the Alliance alive. But look at how many people support the notion in this thread that the Alliance needs to end, we are forced to stay in a narrative that we absolutely hate and don't want to continue. My characters are either die-hard Imperial or Republic loyalists, they have no place within the Eternal Alliance and should have returned a long while ago to their original factions.

 

Instead, we are forced to stay in this trail run narrative which is the same, exactly the same no matter how many times you play it and people we hate and would have executed a long time ago for threats and angry words sent to us, I am looking at you Beywan Aygo, have to stay as one of our key figures in the Alliance and we can't replace them. It's kind of a parody to say that choices matter in KotFE and KotET as they absolutely don't. Why? Because you don't even get choices such as who is my lead scientist, who is head of the Force Sensitive Enclave, who leads my troops. And that is why I hate the Alliance, it's a perverse entity, an abomination for exactly the reason that you are the Commander of it but absolutely have nothing to say in what is what or what happens. Another reason is also that it contradicts lore but I'll leave that be for now.

 

The Eternal Alliance, KotFE and KotET made our characters the companions of Lana and Theron. They aren't the companions, we are.

[LunaticFringer]

I'm still tickled that the abbreviation for this whole thing is... FEET!

 

Shredder and his Foot Clan would approve!

 

Though, I do agree, the singular problem with a mmorpg and this kind of story telling is... even if you give players one generic story to cover all classes; you don't want the individual player to feel like the sole hero. The whole "No, but I'm the real hero that killed the Emperor!" is a legit complaint. If this were simply a single player game it would be A-ok. This type of storytelling is bad for multi-player though.

 

Again, I enjoyed the story-- but I for sure see the problem with it as it applies to scope of multi-player and mechanics for a mmorpg.

 

A part of me is hoping that Road Map is going to include an about face for the game. It may just need it to keep the lights on till a new Star Wars mmorpg comes out; or this one can somehow turn the fan dislike around. That latter one is much harder to do than the first one.

[Ylliarus]

I'm still tickled that the abbreviation for this whole thing is... FEET!

 

Shredder and his Foot Clan would approve!

 

Though, I do agree, the singular problem with a mmorpg and this kind of story telling is... even if you give players one generic story to cover all classes; you don't want the individual player to feel like the sole hero. The whole "No, but I'm the real hero that killed the Emperor!" is a legit complaint. If this were simply a single player game it would be A-ok. This type of storytelling is bad for multi-player though.

 

Again, I enjoyed the story-- but I for sure see the problem with it as it applies to scope of multi-player and mechanics for a mmorpg.

 

A part of me is hoping that Road Map is going to include an about face for the game. It may just need it to keep the lights on till a new Star Wars mmorpg comes out; or this one can somehow turn the fan dislike around. That latter one is much harder to do than the first one.

 

No but that is the issue with KotFE and KotET (FEET I will call it from now on) you know? Because we do feel like the sole hero on the story but at exactly the same time we are an empty hero with no depth or personality. First of all because almost all of our background is being straight up ignored and secondly because I feel like our character is more the companion of Lana and Theron and they are the protagonists of the narrative. We have no individuality of our own especially if you replay the story on other characters, which adds to the very low if not abysmal replay worth, but to return to the subject the complete lack of individuality with the Eternal Alliance adds even more to it.

 

No matter if you play FEET one, two or a hundred times the Alliance is the same. There is no originality, no individuality, devoid of anything interesting as every single time it will be the same faces, in charge of the same things, having the exact same conversations... seriously by writing this I already want to jump off a cliff. How boring can you make it? Why didn't the story team allow for any customization when it comes to the makeup and functioning of the Alliance? And then they wonder why people are so critical of the story... well if you force us down a trail run with no possible variation every single playthrough on an alt there really is no other possible reaction possible than utter disgust and anger.

[Billupsat]

( sorry obsidian but KOTOR 2 was never as good ).

 

Pardon?

 

The quality of writing for Kotor 2 was leaps and bounds ahead of Kotor 1. You may as well have just said that Stephanie Meyer was a better writer than J.K. Rowling. However, there is some merit in saying that Kotor 1 was a better Star Wars story than Kotor 2 - but from an objective standpoint the quality of writing was superior in the latter where it lacked in the former.

[Eshvara]

Pardon?

 

The quality of writing for Kotor 2 was leaps and bounds ahead of Kotor 1. You may as well have just said that Stephanie Meyer was a better writer than J.K. Rowling. However, there is some merit in saying that Kotor 1 was a better Star Wars story than Kotor 2 - but from an objective standpoint the quality of writing was superior in the latter where it lacked in the former.

 

That's what's nice about opinions, they are all different.