Pyosos Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Just out of curiosity. If someone came to the forum whining about something and you realize they are simply not very good at playing the game...how would you tell them? i was not whinning about anything, i was just giving an idea for that pvper and pve players stop fighting each others about class balance.... but instead to make a constructive answer, some prefer to attack the capacity to do pve content... And then make the innocent virgin, saying they do nothing wrong. that's just funny and that make me laugh a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagnarAugustus Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 2) Can we please stop all the PvE hate on PvPers and PvP hate on PvEers? It serves no purpose other then to further encourage conflict and create more distance between PvPers and PvEers. Both sides are at fault on this.. so it would be nice if the constant cross-hate stopped and actual discussion.... with civil disagreement ... could come front and center on these types of discussions. Also more likely to be read and embraced in understanding by the studio.. which might actually get some changes that are good for both demographics. The answer is no because it's a valid point that the OP is making regardless of his methods. The aims of PVE and PVP players are indeed at odds with one another and until Bioware finds a way to balance them separately class balance will remain a zero sum game with one side being the winner and the other being the loser. The only way to please both PVP and PVE players ais to balance them separately. If that means that Bioware has to create PVP only abilities (counterparts to the PVE abilities used only in PVP) so those abilities can be balanced separately from their PVE counterparts so be it, but I've grown tired of the ceaseless whining for nerfs from the PVP community since launch adversely affecting raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decidion Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 If you think PVP balances changes are not heavily affecting PVE gameplay, you are either F2P or do not do anything more than bolstered story mode operations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savej Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 (edited) If you think PVP balances changes are not heavily affecting PVE gameplay, you are either F2P or do not do anything more than bolstered story mode operations... Give me an example of a pvp nerf in this game that negatively affected pve in the last year? And, to be clear, PvPers complaining about <class> does not mean subsequent nerfs to that class had anything to do with their complaints or pvpers. BW has explained that they have dps/hps targets and that's what most of these changes seem to be revolving around. There's a large contingent of very angry players who think balance is irrelevant and any nerfs are because of pvp. They have been around in MMOs forever and several are in this thread. I don't agree with them; PVE needs balance every bit as much as PVP for most of the same reasons. Edited September 20, 2017 by Savej Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 (edited) If you think PVP balances changes are not heavily affecting PVE gameplay, you are either F2P or do not do anything more than bolstered story mode operations... I think you're mistaking their nerfs to drag out the difficulty of 5-year old content, as PvP nerfs...they are most certainly NOT due to PvP...not even a little bit. They even state "It was being used as a single-target rotational ability when it’s intended use was multi-target AOE"...I assure you, the rotation they speak of was not a PvP rotation... They also say: "Marksmanship / Gunslinger Sharpshooter was slightly overperforming, so we...brought the discipline in line with its DPS target."...since there is no "target" in PvP, how the hell do you blame PvP for this one??? These are P V E nerfs...NOT PvP. Edited September 20, 2017 by TUXs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decidion Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 (edited) I think you're mistaking their nerfs to drag out the difficulty of 5-year old content, as PvP nerfs...they are most certainly NOT due to PvP...not even a little bit. They even state "It was being used as a single-target rotational ability when it’s intended use was multi-target AOE"...I assure you, the rotation they speak of was not a PvP rotation... They also say: "Marksmanship / Gunslinger Sharpshooter was slightly overperforming, so we...brought the discipline in line with its DPS target."...since there is no "target" in PvP, how the hell do you blame PvP for this one??? These are P V E nerfs...NOT PvP. Due to the amount of people leaving the game, and influx of new players, these 5 year old OPs are not 5 years old for a lot of folks playing. Secondly, since I don't PVP, just read/hear the complaints about classes being OP in PVP, and its strange how those classes are the ones shortly thereafter getting hit with the nerf bat. Sorc heals last year, Merc DPS this year, etc., etc. One example I know for absolute sure was due to PVP is the removal of Phase Walk from Assassins. Interesting that this ability was first given to Assassins, then given to Sorc's, then pulled form Assassins. Why? It is useful in PVE, but not overpoweringly so. It was pulled from Assassins because Sin tank were jumping off bridges in PVP, yanking people and then teleporting back tot he phase walk location. Edited September 20, 2017 by Decidion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savej Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Due to the amount of people leaving the game, and influx of new players, these 5 year old OPs are not 5 years old for a lot of folks playing. Secondly, since I don't PVP, just read/hear the complaints about classes being OP in PVP, and its strange how those classes are the ones shortly thereafter getting hit with the nerf bat. Sorc heals last year, Merc DPS this year, etc., etc. One example I know for absolute sure was due to PVP is the removal of Phase Walk from Assassins. Interesting that this ability was first given to Assassins, then given to Sorc's, then pulled form Assassins. Why? It is useful in PVE, but not overpoweringly so. It was pulled from Assassins because Sin tank were jumping off bridges in PVP, yanking people and then teleporting back tot he phase walk location. Phase walk removed for pvp reasons? Maybe/maybe not but how exactly did the loss of phase walk "screw up PVE mechanics"? Other than some tank tricks that I haven't seen when would you use it? Solo, in fps, in ops... that got used very rarely if ever - it's almost exclusively a pvp ability to begin with (and good for bots). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeCKSEgai Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 It's not pvp screwing up pve mechanics - its poor decisions made by development screwing over everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeCKSEgai Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 If you think PVP balances changes are not heavily affecting PVE gameplay, you are either F2P or do not do anything more than bolstered story mode operations... They don't make pvp balance changes - they just make bad changes. Pvp has never been even close to balanced when I started in 3.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunaticFringer Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Ah, I remember these threads back when I first started playing SWG. Many of the players there had already played Everquest and the other grand pappy mmorpgs before SWG and would just comment-- yeah, this is an ongoing problem. I'm kind of happy they did at least make it one set of gear again. That was one thing I never liked going into WoW. The need to gear twice for two types of content. One set of gear (for your main) for the whole game just feels right as a mmorpg vet. Having said that, the problem is... a player does not react like an NPC. If you balance things to the NPCs... when it comes to PvP it's going to wind up being wet paper bag vs. wet paper bag... making it a question of who stuns or shoots first. Which isn't fun for the PvPers. In that regard, the PvE game needs to be balanced against PvP. This has been the case since before many of you ever played a mmorpg. You'll see these kind of threads again too-- for however much longer the mmorpg lasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 90% (to not say 100% with the example of the decoy nerf for mercs) of the changes we had since 5.0 are pve oriented. and i assure you this killed more specs in pvp that teh contrary. diversity is worse than before (how many engi/viru snipers anymore? dps operatives? innovative ordonnance ? etc etc) so because of pve, pvp is suffering a lot in 5.0. reconsider your point of view, you idiot. zero changes were pve and zero were pvp. The devs nerfed the classes to meet a super secret internal metric. It has nothing to do with actual balance. They really dont give a crap if pvpers or pveers are actually happy. As long as they meet their internal goal they are fine with it. They dont care if specs or classes are nonviable in pvp and they dont care if players can actually complete raids. This is all to feed an ego above keith and nothing will change. You notice the distinct lack of actual communication after all the promises of better communication. The summer of nerfs is here to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Secondly, since I don't PVP, just read/hear the complaints about classes being OP in PVP, and its strange how those classes are the ones shortly thereafter getting hit with the nerf bat. Sorc heals last year, Merc DPS this year, etc., etc. Yeah, it's funny how an OP class in PvE is also OP in PvP huh? Trust me...the class changes have ZERO to do with PvP...these are only about hitting target numbers, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangenee Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 I have a question. How exactly is the "target DPS" decided? Do they throw darts at the company donkey and make the targets by the decibel level of it's squeals? Inquiring minds want to know. It's obviously not decided through practical in game data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decidion Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Yeah, it's funny how an OP class in PvE is also OP in PvP huh? Trust me...the class changes have ZERO to do with PvP...these are only about hitting target numbers, nothing more. I still disagree with regards to the removal of Phase walk from Assassins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethern Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Perhaps going the Blizzard way and have separate traits for PvE and PvP? But unlikely to happen, since it requires tremendous work, as in designing new abilities and assorted animations, for a type of content underplayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 I think you're mistaking their nerfs to drag out the difficulty of 5-year old content, as PvP nerfs...they are most certainly NOT due to PvP...not even a little bit. They even state "It was being used as a single-target rotational ability when it’s intended use was multi-target AOE"...I assure you, the rotation they speak of was not a PvP rotation... They also say: "Marksmanship / Gunslinger Sharpshooter was slightly overperforming, so we...brought the discipline in line with its DPS target."...since there is no "target" in PvP, how the hell do you blame PvP for this one??? These are P V E nerfs...NOT PvP. Actually, I dont think it was pve or pvp. It was internal metrics. They just used their boiler plate excuse that they use whenever they nuke an AOE ability. They figure that people will just get over it in a few weeks/months so they will disappear from the forums for that time frame. Just like every other time they screwed up something in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
light_senshi Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 I personally wish that they would lay off of the nerfs and actually make sorcerer's playable again in hard mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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