Anyone else angry about PVP screwing up PVE mechanics?? GRRR

[Dayshadow]

I am so very tired of PvP whining screwing up player classes all under the guise of 'Balance". There will NEVER be balance as proven historically by the developers attempts and failures. STOP SCREWING UP THE CLASSES and get back to where we were before 5.0 at the very least.

 

I've had a sorcerer since beta and now its totally castrated due to this ******** balance, cant heal worth a tinker's damn and my Lightning (and i love Lightning spec) is useless in Hard Mode Ops.

 

I SAY WE PVE PLAYERS MUST UNITE AND PROTEST LOUDLY AND CONTINUOUSLY LONGER THAN THE WHINING PVP CLIENTS TO GET OUR GAME BACK TO ITS WELL KNOWN ROOTS>>> P.V.E !!!!!! FOREVER!!!

 

Put PVP mechanics on PVP Servers ONLY.. separate the game from the stupid smash face PVP game and keep them separate FOREVER!

 

PvP balancing is meaningless anyway. It's not like everyone is on equal footing anyway. I could see if there were default stats that everyone had in PvP maps, armor/weapons didn't make any difference and no buff or stims could be in effect. But as it stands the guy with the better gear will outperform the one without. It's primarily the reason PvP isn't as popular as it could be. New people come in get curb stomped and just don't bother to try again.

[AshurDarksoul]

Every game that does both PVP and PVE has the exact same issue.

 

PVE balances mess up PVP... then they go to fix PVP and mess up PVE. Over and over and over again...

 

The next MMO that is created I seriously hope the devs have two separate game mechanics for both so that one does not effect the other.

 

Make people gain PVP levels and skills in PVP only. Make people gain PVE levels and skills for PVE only etc.

 

Games that do both are never going to get both right.. they will never even get one right, just a constant cycle of back and forth.

 

This has been my experience as well. I dont pvp. I do have guildmates that do and i know it is important to players. However, every MMORPG i have played (im sure not all tho) that has tried to mix pvp/pve have usually ended up spending a lot of development time constantly balancing classes. This is the consequence of having diverse classes with lots of skills/combo's. That and people always looking for the king build/fotm.

 

Another poster mentioned "the right direction" with specific pvp gear. Ive read other post stating similar. I dont remember the reasons devs moved away from this tho

 

Also, i would be curious how the recent nerfs/balancing has effected NiM raiders as their windows of success are likely the narrowest.

 

Ashur

Edited September 17, 2017 by AshurDarksoul

[DarthSpuds]

90% (to not say 100% with the example of the decoy nerf for mercs) of the changes we had since 5.0 are pve oriented.

 

NO!

 

They have unduly and primarily impacted PvE.

 

But they happened primarily because of PvP whines; even if the specific intent of those PvP whines was missed entirely by Bioware (yet another example of BWA incompetence).

 

All The Best

Edited September 17, 2017 by DarthSpuds

[DarthSpuds]

Every game that does both PVP and PVE has the exact same issue.

 

PVE balances mess up PVP... then they go to fix PVP and mess up PVE. Over and over and over again...

 

The next MMO that is created I seriously hope the devs have two separate game mechanics for both so that one does not effect the other.

 

Make people gain PVP levels and skills in PVP only. Make people gain PVE levels and skills for PVE only etc.

 

Games that do both are never going to get both right.. they will never even get one right, just a constant cycle of back and forth.

 

^ This

 

All The Best

[Tsillah]

90% (to not say 100% with the example of the decoy nerf for mercs) of the changes we had since 5.0 are pve oriented.

 

and i assure you this killed more specs in pvp that teh contrary. diversity is worse than before (how many engi/viru snipers anymore? dps operatives? innovative ordonnance ? etc etc)

 

so because of pve, pvp is suffering a lot in 5.0.

 

reconsider your point of view, you idiot.

 

That makes zero sense to me. You say PvE ruined PvP for you but you don't give a single reason that actually proves that point.

 

Now, I'm not saying you don't have a point but before I agree or disagree with you, I would like to understand why you say the changes are PvE oriented. You say they are, but before you call him an idiot could you give a couple of CONVINCING examples of how the changes were PvE oriented?

[Pyosos]

plainly simple to stop all the fight.

We put all the pvper on their own server, with their own balance.... they will have more pop, more fun, and no more mess between pve and pvp.

the balance for pve will apply only to pve players, the balance for pvp will apply only to pvp players

[jedip_enguin]

Why be angry about something that has been an issue in pretty much every MMO ever?

[Transcendent]

plainly simple to stop all the fight.

We put all the pvper on their own server, with their own balance.... they will have more pop, more fun, and no more mess between pve and pvp.

the balance for pve will apply only to pve players, the balance for pvp will apply only to pvp players

 

What about the players that enjoy both then?

[orangenee]

What about the players that enjoy both then?

 

They can enjoy PvP on one server and PvE on another.

[Pyosos]

What about the players that enjoy both then?

outside the option to have characters on pvp and pve server, if i'm correct, you can pve on a pvp server?

then where is the problem?

are you afraid that pvp balance affect your pve experience, i don't think, as a pvp players pointed out :

No one is doing anything to affect PvE because of PvP. PvP's biggest problem at the moment are defensive cooldowns and defensive utilities and these play no role in pve.

 

well excepted perhaps in nim ops, where you must handle lot of thing without error.....

[Transcendent]

outside the option to have characters on pvp and pve server, if i'm correct, you can pve on a pvp server?

then where is the problem?

are you afraid that pvp balance affect your pve experience, i don't think, as a pvp players pointed out :

 

Well there is the flaw in that then, you'll have PvE content but be balanced for PvP, not the other way around as it currently is (contrary to what you think, the game is balanced for PvE content).

 

I mean, you don't even have to take my word for that, check the dev tracker and see the post by Eric to understand how they balance the game. If you're having trouble completing PvE content then I simply suggest you get better playing your respective class as well as find a decent group.

[Kyrra_T]

Well there is the flaw in that then, you'll have PvE content but be balanced for PvP, not the other way around as it currently is (contrary to what you think, the game is balanced for PvE content).

 

I mean, you don't even have to take my word for that, check the dev tracker and see the post by Eric to understand how they balance the game. If you're having trouble completing PvE content then I simply suggest you get better playing your respective class as well as find a decent group.

 

They are balancing for a STATIONARY object as the dps. Neither PVE nor PVP dps occurs against a stationary object. Until they take movement of the object, and its effect on heals, dps, and tanking then their balance equation is faulty.

[aerockyul]

This has been my experience as well. I dont pvp. I do have guildmates that do and i know it is important to players. However, every MMORPG i have played (im sure not all tho) that has tried to mix pvp/pve have usually ended up spending a lot of development time constantly balancing classes. This is the consequence of having diverse classes with lots of skills/combo's. That and people always looking for the king build/fotm.

 

Another poster mentioned "the right direction" with specific pvp gear. Ive read other post stating similar. I dont remember the reasons devs moved away from this tho

 

Also, i would be curious how the recent nerfs/balancing has effected NiM raiders as their windows of success are likely the narrowest.

 

Ashur

 

If they didn't remove pvp gear, all pvpers would have deliberately not bought into CXP/GC. It was the only way they could get the entire population involved.

 

A lot of NiM raiders have been complaining about specific classes now being unviable in their favorite content. Imagine that...let's say you love doing Flashpoints, all day, every day. It's almost all that you like/want to do. You've spent 8 months grinding through CXP to get the best gear for your class. RNG has probably not been kind to you. But you finally get within 1-2 pieces of BiS and now you can do all flashpoints regardless of difficulty and you can even carry people without stims/adrenals.

 

Now Bioware steps in because they've heard some vague and loud complaints from people who never do flashpoints and actually disdain that content, and BW decides to change the class. The changes aren't necessarily correct to what they were complaining about, BUT, regardless, now your class struggles mightily to clear half of the content that you spent so much time gearing and working towards, and there are now 3-4 flashpoints that are simply impossible for you to clear unless YOU are being carried.

 

Oh joy! Either muddle through content you could easily clear through your 8 months of work, or roll a new class and work for another 8 months just to do the content you could already do.

 

Except 4 months into the new grind, Bioware changes the gearing system again, moving the item rating up another 24 levels and continuing to buff the content you used to be able to do easily because they aren't making anything new and they can't have you melting that old content like butter while they get their act together.

[aerockyul]

They are balancing for a STATIONARY object as the dps. Neither PVE nor PVP dps occurs against a stationary object. Until they take movement of the object, and its effect on heals, dps, and tanking then their balance equation is faulty.

 

That is the truly frustrating thing. Nothing in the game other than parsing dummies just stands there. And yet that is what they made their changes from.

[orangenee]

That is the truly frustrating thing. Nothing in the game other than parsing dummies just stands there. And yet that is what they made their changes from.

 

Quick and easy requiring minimum effort. Seems like BW basement division.

 

I mean they have a sizable (though dwindling) playerbase to tap into to give actual live data on how classes work in actual gameplay.

 

It's like if you spend all day shooting targets and dummies all day in the military. It's insufficient for actually shooting a living breathing target, the core principal is the same but adds many variables.

 

In the words of a great man "Boards don't hit back".

[Amantionus]

Quick and easy requiring minimum effort. Seems like BW basement division.

 

I mean they have a sizable (though dwindling) playerbase to tap into to give actual live data on how classes work in actual gameplay.

 

It's like if you spend all day shooting targets and dummies all day in the military. It's insufficient for actually shooting a living breathing target, the core principal is the same but adds many variables.

 

In the words of a great man "Boards don't hit back".

 

Very true. I could qualify expert on rifle and pistol on the range. That is easy. The tactical range however was very different. My accuracy went from 95% to under 70%. Once you add in stressors, running, changing positions, donning a gas mask and firing while wearing it, weapons malfunctions (we load the occasional dummy round in you magazines, suddenly you go from fine and dandy to your weapon did not go bang when you pulled the trigger), smoke AND moving targets things get pear shaped fast. My best on the stationary qualification range was 98%, my best on the tactical range was 82%. (And that is still without anyone shooting back! The one time someone shoot at me personally, I freaked, dove for cover, and then couldn't find the safety before the shooter was gone.)

 

Assuming anything even remotely similar goes on with the game calculations when accounting for cover, line of sight and movement then static calculations are meaningless.

[DreadtechSavant]

what I'm tired of is these repetitive threads about PvP ruining PvE

 

Not nearly as much as I am about, Megaserver threads, CXP threads, Bot threads, companion threads. The game is dead threads.

 

Guess there not much else to write about until new info comes out. Then it be a endless number of threads just to complain about it. Well at least until it comes out and for a week or so after. Then it be back to all threads mentioned above. lol.

 

Anyway OP, not sure if this is just a wind up thread or meant as a serious discussion. As a solo player myself, this is not really an issue for me, as balance between the two does not really affect me as a solo player. It's more about the players who do PvP (not all mind you) then what PvP does or does not do for the game. Still that's a different discussion for another time.

Edited September 18, 2017 by DreadtechSavant

[Pyosos]

Well there is the flaw in that then, you'll have PvE content but be balanced for PvP, not the other way around as it currently is (contrary to what you think, the game is balanced for PvE content).

 

I mean, you don't even have to take my word for that, check the dev tracker and see the post by Eric to understand how they balance the game. If you're having trouble completing PvE content then I simply suggest you get better playing your respective class as well as find a decent group.

 

Funny, all the nerf complain come from pvp players, even if bioware don't nerf as they want that come from that particular group.

And when we give idea about how to handle the situation, you said you can't pve on a pvp server, then you know that nerfing class for making happy pvper will kill pve players...

 

And in the end, to make sure that you win your point, you make personal attack, you're really funny

[Storm-Cutter]

doesn't Betteridge's law of headlines apply?

 

I think lazy development, and dev's lack of attention to detail is the root cause. We've seen a lot of changes to classes and specs over the years, several level cap increases and scores of iterations in gearing. - If it needs so much tinkering, it obviously wasn't right to start with, or subsequently.

 

But they're still meddling with the god-awful Galactic command a year later, so don't expect any significant changes any time soon.

[Transcendent]

And in the end, to make sure that you win your point, you make personal attack, you're really funny

 

For your benefit, let me explain something to you.

 

I'm not trying to "win" anything, I'm putting across a personal opinion, you're welcome not to agree with it. I've also not made any personal attack towards you, perhaps you're reading too much into that part of the post and letting your own opinion influence you negatively, it certainly wasn't the intent - and I make no apologies for you reading it that way.

 

And yes, I am a funny guy in real life, how very perceptive of you.

 

Agree or disagree with my opinion, if you're unable to see the facts behind the balancing that's entirely your choice. I will post my thoughts on the subject though, especially when your suggestions will only harm the community of the game.

[kodrac]

And in the end, to make sure that you win your point, you make personal attack, you're really funny

 

Telling you to play better is not a personal attack. If he said you were an idiot, then you'd have a case.

[Andryah]

For your benefit, let me explain something to you.

 

I'm not trying to "win" anything, I'm putting across a personal opinion, you're welcome not to agree with it. I've also not made any personal attack towards you, perhaps you're reading too much into that part of the post and letting your own opinion influence you negatively, it certainly wasn't the intent - and I make no apologies for you reading it that way.

 

And yes, I am a funny guy in real life, how very perceptive of you.

 

Agree or disagree with my opinion, if you're unable to see the facts behind the balancing that's entirely your choice. I will post my thoughts on the subject though, especially when your suggestions will only harm the community of the game.

 

/Endorsement.

 

I definitely read his post as projecting upon you. And that is an issue in a lot of such comments.... people take offense at something that had no offense motive or intention behind it... and they project such offense and then condemn you even though it is their fantasy.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Andryah

[Pyosos]

funny how you change subject on little point, saying someone need to learn how to play better, is an attack you can take it as you want, turn it any where you want that a personal attack.

But well i absolutly don't care, i find that just funny.

i have no problem in any pve content, but i have problem with pvper who want to force all others players in their own little game.

They want server merge to have more pop, but don't want their own pvp server.

They want to be capable to do pvp and pve content, but don't want to do pve content on a specific pvp server with pvp class balance because that will affect their pve experience.

But they still want to force all others pve players to accept their whinning about class balance for pvp...

pvp players have been a cancer to all mmo since they exist, even more when they have been mixed with pve players.

 

pvp players don't want their own pvp server, because no one will go there, the population will be very low, and they will get bored between them, no they prefer server merges to give false illusion that they have more pop, just because pve players goes afk in wz to get unassambled component (thank bioware on that).

And you know what? you deserve more afk players in your wz.

 

me i'm going to seat, eat my popcorn and see you rage

[kodrac]

saying someone need to learn how to play better, is an attack you can take it as you want, turn it any where you want that a personal attack.

 

Nope.

[Tsillah]

funny how you change subject on little point, saying someone need to learn how to play better, is an attack you can take it as you want, turn it any where you want that a personal attack.

Just out of curiosity. If someone came to the forum whining about something and you realize they are simply not very good at playing the game...how would you tell them?