Tsillah Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 This is that perfection fallacy again, nobody expects "capital B" Balance as if it were some divinely ordained platonic form. I only want balancing, do you understand the difference? I understand the difference between the act of balancing and achieving balance. My point is of course that an actual balance can never really be achieved in a game like this, since it's already impossible to make a universal definition. In that sense though, I have to wonder what the act of balancing brings you...what is the purpose of the balancing you seek? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodrac Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) some players like what they see, some do not, and some get outright indignant that an MMO does not meet their personal needs/wants. Who's projecting a narrative? Edited September 18, 2017 by kodrac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 I have no words to describe this statement. Arrogance? Ignorance? Raider elitist? Trolling? I can't decide. Gotta be trolling...just has to be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shyroman Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 One thing that doesn't really work with your argument is that representation doesn't necessarily reflect how good a class is. Lets use the starparse info (pve) for an example. Since last Tuesday, there has been 3161 different arsenal mercs that have connected to the starparse server. There has been only 719 lethality operatives. Does that mean that arsenal is in a much better place than lethality for pve? Nobody with an understanding of how good specs are at the moment would argue that. Even though fury is one of the highest parsing specs and is also one of the easiest right now, it is extremely underrepresented compared to other specs with only 236 toons. The only spec with less is pyro with 203. Does this mean that fury should be buffed even more? To the point where people will play it solely because it is crazy above the rest? At least with lethality there can be an argument that it is terrible in pvp and people want specs that can they can play both with, but fury is great for both. Community perception of a spec won't change right away, it takes time for representation to catch up with how good a spec is. Buffing a spec to crazy levels is not a good way to fix representation. There are a lot more examples I could put than the ones above, but those are the biggest ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holanos Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) "Balancing" just causes one thing...it steps on the nerve of every PVE player..... There is not just pvp in the world you know...... Simply EVERY "balancing" done in the past was created via pvp whining and made it more difficult for pve to operate.... Well...we get used to it but i personally WAIT for the moment that ONE pvp player gets it and sees that nerfing and "balancing" just makes another class to the "major class" and that it is NO solution for anything...not even the slightest bit of an solution. IF you want this kind of solution thought through to the end it is really simple...one class for all or "balancing" is a nerverending story as it is today.... But we WANT different classes so -in my eyes- there has a cut to be made and everyone has to live with the restrictions or benefits of the class.... This endless change due to whining just continues the story of nerf and re-nerf and re-re-nerf of the nerf and it will never end.... My opinion...... Edited September 18, 2017 by Holanos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magira Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) Balancing is a continuous process. And has to be partially separated for PVP and PVE. I also play GW2 and WoW. In Guild Wars 2, there is a balance patch every 6 weeks or so. And some skills have different values/functions in PVE and PVP. In WoW there is an extra PVP talent tree and many skills have different values depending on the game mode. Both PVP and PVE are balanced almost weekly. Here in SWTOR you can see what comes out of it, when people without any idea look every year what dps the class is doing at the dummy. Edited September 18, 2017 by Magira Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahana Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 This is that perfection fallacy again, nobody expects "capital B" Balance as if it were some divinely ordained platonic form. I only want balancing, do you understand the difference? Yeah but what exactly is balancing? Is it purely that 'dps' number? Shouldn't other things come into play? Some classes get a self heal, or are able to throw out a quick heal here and there in OPS if the healers are having an issue.. Shouldn't their ability to do that over a class that can't count against their DPS numbers? Everyone wants balance.. But I don't think most dev's explain their ideas of what they consider balance correctly. Personally I don't believe it is one number (what damage or heals I put out) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Balancing is a continuous process. And has to be partially separated for PVP and PVE.Yes it is. It should be weekly or biweekly at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallucigenocide Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) Yes it is. It should be weekly or biweekly at best. that's probably a bit overkill.. realistically it would happen every 3 months(not sure how often it happens here since i tend to come and go). Edited September 18, 2017 by hallucigenocide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 that's probably a bit overkill.. realistically it would happen every 3 months(not sure how often it happens here since i tend to come and go). That's far too long between it. Realistically it should happen ONCE and be good until the next update...get it right or fix it quickly...the tweaking needs to be immediate and constant until they get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallucigenocide Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 That's far too long between it. Realistically it should happen ONCE and be good until the next update...get it right or fix it quickly...the tweaking needs to be immediate and constant until they get it right. never going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magira Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 that's probably a bit overkill.. realistically it would happen every 3 months(not sure how often it happens here since i tend to come and go). I think six weeks is a good fit. As in GW2, a precondition is that there is one responsible person for each class who plays this class actively. If they don't play their own game, like here, a weekly patch doesn't help at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decidion Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Absolutely NO person working at BioWare should be even allowed to walk by the "class balancing" office unless they have successfully completed every single operation on at least Hard Mode, done all class stories, uprisings, flashpoints and finished in the top 25% of ranked PVP.... and regularly play at least 4 classes. But then again...if they did have these requirements, that office would be vacant, instead of chock full of computer simulation specialists that haven't the slightest clue about reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsbount Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 I think the best solution here is separating abilities stats for PVE and PVP. Yes, it may take some development and time, but in the end it may be the only key to success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts