The dark side to the Toxic Community in SWTOR

[DarthEnrique]

Yep. You called it. I tried having a rational discussion with them a bit ago on their other post. They resorted to name calling there too. You can't call yourself a victim when you're insulting and name calling anyone who has a different opinion and defending such actions by saying you're standing up for your rights. Smh

 

Lol! Says the one who doesn't have to say anything in a post at all and then puts the blame on someone else. That's not my problem or my fault you chose to come into a topic you don't agree with. Nothing or no one forced you to do so, so please keep up with the insults and putting me down. It only shows that I'm not the real problem. You all say people need to use the ignore feature, aka take responsibility on themselves, how about practicing what you preach and take responsibility on yourself to say "I don't agree with this so I'm not going to post in the topic as it won't be helpful and wont contribute to the conversation."? Please spare me your self rightness and acting like I'm the bad guy and irrational one? I'm not the one spewing hyprocacy. I came into this post to be helpful to the OP about the topic, not my fault people who don't agree decided to post in here. Don't agree you can start your own topic on it where people can agree with you can post and keep it on topic. Otherwise this is just hypocrisy plain and simple.

[DarthEnrique]

Back to the topic at hand, harassment and bullying of any kind is wrong, doesn't matter what it is and Bioware does need to address the issue. As has already been suggested, a legacy/account-wide ignore and the option to only allow people on your friends list whisper you would really help combat this in-game bullying/harassment stuff. Edited September 18, 2017 by DarthEnrique

[Suzsi]

Back to the topic at hand, harassment and bullying of any kind is wrong, doesn't matter what it is and Bioware does need to address the issue. As has already been suggested, a legacy/account-wide ignore and the option to only allow people on your friends list whisper you would really help combat this in-game bullying/harassment stuff.

 

A toggle for friends list whisper at least for those who want it and those who dont

[DarthEnrique]

A toggle for friends list whisper at least for those who want it and those who dont

 

That's what I mean. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

[aerockyul]

I'd really like to see Bioware for once get in on any of the bully, trolling, toxic, harassing threads that pop up every other day in multiple areas of the forum. If Keith has time to post multiple times in the tracer missile troll's thread, I would think he could say something about this topic. People leave the game for all kinds of reasons. Lots leave because of bullying, trolling, toxicity, harassment. One might leave (he never does or will) because of the tracer missile animation.

 

Can we get some sort of response that Bioware takes these things seriously? Linking the ToS isn't really the answer. You think the trolls and bullies are gonna read that and stop getting their jollies? How about examples of what you do when people actually take the arduous steps required to report something so you notice. We don't feel you notice Reports because there's never any evidence it ever did anything. (So what if that toon is gone, they could have just gone to an alt. That proves nothing)

 

How about some communication similar to what you do when you do a huge credit seller purge? You tell us why you took so long, what you did, what you're doing to stop it, that you'll continue to be vigilant going forward, etc. Something like this related to how you actually deal with people's Reporting. It seems like the only people who might get satisfaction are the ones who gather evidence outside of the game's tools and PM's them to Bioware employees directly. Why should we have to do that when the Report feature exists? Do you not read them? Then what's the point?

 

Yeah, you might see some reports that are bogus, but you're supposedly smart enough to know what is and isn't ok, especially because you make the rules. The guy who calls someone a jerk vs the guy who liberally uses the n-word in gen-chat. Tough decision to take action on.

 

If you're unwilling or (more likely) unable to do anything to protect your players, AND you somehow have an issue with what free speech is/should be allowable or not, then give the players more power to take care of the problem themselves:

 

Allow account-wide ignore

Expand the ignore list limit

Allow the FULL report functions no matter what distance you are from the offender

Allow another chat option (among the many that exist already) that blocks whispers from non-friends (and maybe include guild members?)

This is a little pie-in-the-sky, but if someone is ignored, I think they should disappear from my presence as well. They literally stop existing in the game to my character. I don't want to see them on fleet in their giant mounts blocking vendors/mailboxes or running circles around me or emoting near or to my character or doing anything in my view. Similar to how the GF works to block an ignored toon from ever being allowed into my group (at the least, expand this to the warzone queue--most trolls live there and is where most toxicity and harassment come from).

 

Once the tools are actually made effective to the players, that means less work for you to police and less people having bad experiences in your game and leaving. I know you need that sweet, sweet troll sub/cc money, but they can exist among themselves while those of us who want to enjoy the game without them can continue to do so.

[DarthEnrique]

I'd really like to see Bioware for once get in on any of the bully, trolling, toxic, harassing threads that pop up every other day in multiple areas of the forum. If Keith has time to post multiple times in the tracer missile troll's thread, I would think he could say something about this topic. People leave the game for all kinds of reasons. Lots leave because of bullying, trolling, toxicity, harassment. One might leave (he never does or will) because of the tracer missile animation.

 

Can we get some sort of response that Bioware takes these things seriously? Linking the ToS isn't really the answer. You think the trolls and bullies are gonna read that and stop getting their jollies? How about examples of what you do when people actually take the arduous steps required to report something so you notice. We don't feel you notice Reports because there's never any evidence it ever did anything. (So what if that toon is gone, they could have just gone to an alt. That proves nothing)

 

How about some communication similar to what you do when you do a huge credit seller purge? You tell us why you took so long, what you did, what you're doing to stop it, that you'll continue to be vigilant going forward, etc. Something like this related to how you actually deal with people's Reporting. It seems like the only people who might get satisfaction are the ones who gather evidence outside of the game's tools and PM's them to Bioware employees directly. Why should we have to do that when the Report feature exists? Do you not read them? Then what's the point?

 

Yeah, you might see some reports that are bogus, but you're supposedly smart enough to know what is and isn't ok, especially because you make the rules. The guy who calls someone a jerk vs the guy who liberally uses the n-word in gen-chat. Tough decision to take action on.

 

If you're unwilling or (more likely) unable to do anything to protect your players, AND you somehow have an issue with what free speech is/should be allowable or not, then give the players more power to take care of the problem themselves:

 

Allow account-wide ignore

Expand the ignore list limit

Allow the FULL report functions no matter what distance you are from the offender

Allow another chat option (among the many that exist already) that blocks whispers from non-friends (and maybe include guild members?)

This is a little pie-in-the-sky, but if someone is ignored, I think they should disappear from my presence as well. They literally stop existing in the game to my character. I don't want to see them on fleet in their giant mounts blocking vendors/mailboxes or running circles around me or emoting near or to my character or doing anything in my view. Similar to how the GF works to block an ignored toon from ever being allowed into my group (at the least, expand this to the warzone queue--most trolls live there and is where most toxicity and harassment come from).

 

Once the tools are actually made effective to the players, that means less work for you to police and less people having bad experiences in your game and leaving. I know you need that sweet, sweet troll sub/cc money, but they can exist among themselves while those of us who want to enjoy the game without them can continue to do so.

 

Don't forget a toggle option to allow people who want to to be able to make whispering friends only.

 

Add-on: And omg! A lot of the PVP community in this game is toxic central. My God almighty! So glad we can turn the PVP chat off lot of toxicity there and bs talking it's unenjoyable to see. Bleck!

Edited September 18, 2017 by DarthEnrique

[fushnchips]

Today I done an interview with a player that has been harassed so bad and by what I've been told Bioware are not helping get this sorted and yes the report/ignore system has been used sometimes that's not going to help how they get around it and use things that are not covered by the current flawed system.

 

Warning video is 24mins long

 

Interview with someone who has been harassed daily

[Decidion]

Yeah, I think this game is what, Teen rated? But going to fleet for a couple minutes and it's obvious it should be XXX+ Mature rated.

 

The Irony is that even some of the very mild stuff at fleet or DK chat will get you perma banned if repeated here on the forums, yet BioWare (who absolutely must know the situation), give you a pass in game chat.

 

Why the double standard?

 

And WHERE is the Legacy Ignore that Musco said they were working on LAST YEAR????

[orangenee]

Yeah, I think this game is what, Teen rated? But going to fleet for a couple minutes and it's obvious it should be XXX+ Mature rated.

 

The Irony is that even some of the very mild stuff at fleet or DK chat will get you perma banned if repeated here on the forums, yet BioWare (who absolutely must know the situation), give you a pass in game chat.

 

Why the double standard?

 

And WHERE is the Legacy Ignore that Musco said they were working on LAST YEAR????

 

Same place as everything else, imagination land.

[DieAlteHexe]

Same place as everything else, imagination land.

 

I'm going to have to argue with this one...a little.

 

Having worked in the business (s'ware dev though not MMOs), there is a "List". This list is usually hideously long, overambitious and a source of frustration depending upon what role you play in a company. With finite resources decisions have to be taken and the "List" is always centre-stage. What to do first? More bug fixes? Content added? Suggestions implemented?

 

I would be willing to bet that this is the case here and not "imagination land". It's frustrating for everyone from those in the Ivory Tower, to the coders, to the TS/CS folk, to the customers. Generally things not happening are not "oh, let's just sit around with our feet up and look at cat memes" but rather "*****! we have x time and x money, how can we spend it best?".

[Dekibra]

^ I agree - there must be a List ... but that list is prioritized, yes?

 

and shouldn't then stuff like account-wide ignore be right on top?

[DieAlteHexe]

^ I agree - there must be a List ... but that list is prioritized, yes?

 

and shouldn't then stuff like account-wide ignore be right on top?

 

Therein lies the source of many contentious meetings. Each department fights their corner and tries to put forth reasons for their responsibilities (bugs, content, etc.) being "more needed". Given it's a business, decisions are probably taken based on what will either earn the most or cost the least (bottom line).

 

And that does not always equate what the customer(s) want. It can be very, very, VERY frustrating to have folks in the Ivory Tower making decisions based SOLELY on the bottom line and yet, it's a common occurrence. FWIW, from what I've seen it's that the coders more often (way more often) side with the customer than they do with the denizens of the Ivory Tower and/or the beancounters.

[orangenee]

I'm going to have to argue with this one...a little.

 

Having worked in the business (s'ware dev though not MMOs), there is a "List". This list is usually hideously long, overambitious and a source of frustration depending upon what role you play in a company. With finite resources decisions have to be taken and the "List" is always centre-stage. What to do first? More bug fixes? Content added? Suggestions implemented?

 

I would be willing to bet that this is the case here and not "imagination land". It's frustrating for everyone from those in the Ivory Tower, to the coders, to the TS/CS folk, to the customers. Generally things not happening are not "oh, let's just sit around with our feet up and look at cat memes" but rather "*****! we have x time and x money, how can we spend it best?".

 

I see you haven't dealt with me for long enough yet, due to my propensity towards snideness I exaggerate things ever so slightly for effect.

 

I understand there's a "To do" list pinned up in that dusty office that gets ignored, however, I understand that players have come up with all sorts of lovely ideas that ARE NOT exactly far fetched that get blatantly overlooked and/or ignored. The "to don't" list has many, many lights and surrounding it and is the centrepiece of Bioware Austins condemned building they refer to as offices.

 

Hence, imagination land. If we imagine it, it will likely stay there. See what I'm getting at.

[DieAlteHexe]

I see you haven't dealt with me for long enough yet, due to my propensity towards snideness I exaggerate things ever so slightly for effect.

 

I understand there's a "To do" list pinned up in that dusty office that gets ignored, however, I understand that players have come up with all sorts of lovely ideas that ARE NOT exactly far fetched that get blatantly overlooked and/or ignored. The "to don't" list has many, many lights and surrounding it and is the centrepiece of Bioware Austins condemned building they refer to as offices.

 

Hence, imagination land. If we imagine it, it will likely stay there. See what I'm getting at.

 

That's true. I avoided the forums for several years. Got tired of the bickerfests and circuitous arguments.

 

Sort of but that "List" isn't dusty. If anything it's about to fall apart from all the handling it gets from the varying departments and the tug o'wars it is subjected to.

 

As for player suggestions; it's probably a case of they are collated, added to "a list" (not The List) and referred to when The List is either under control (an uncommon occurrence) or when the "features" department/guy/guys manage to win their fight in the meetings.

 

I'm just not buying that the actual folks in BW are this blase about the game. I think the problems stem from higher up and tighter fists. That's based on my career experience. I could be wrong here but I'd bet I'm not.

[TUXs]

Giving people the *option* to restrict whispers to friends would be helpful.

This plus Legacy /ignore would do wonders. Good idea.

 

So why do you give them control over your life? I once read an analogy: it's like giving someone else the remote control to your life and telling them to change the station to whatever they want. Give them a reaction, even if they don't see or know about in any way (i.e. you get depressed or you cry) - and they win.

 

Why the heck do you let them win?

 

In the heat of the moment, yeah, it's hard not to feel upset. Then that moment passes, and you can look at the incident more objectively.

Well said, your entire post...I just wanted to highlight this part...DO NOT GIVE THEM THE ATTENTION they want so badly. If they want to waste their entire night chasing you, let em...they'll tire of it eventually. Just go about your business and do what you do...don't become the victim!!!

 

There's a great story by a former troll that I will link below. In that person's perspective, gaming harassment happens for lulz and attention. That's on the perpetrator, not the victim.

I believe this is the case 90% of the time. They do it for attention. DO NOT GIVE IT TO THEM...at least not on their terms.

 

Ignoring them is the BEST thing you can do...even if they follow you around doing circles...let em...let them waste their time, but do NOT let them waste yours. If I had a stalker, I'd interact with them when I exit an instance - I'd /cheer at them and pretend they were my entourage. Make it clear that you're going to keep doing you.

[TUXs]

That's true. I avoided the forums for several years. Got tired of the bickerfests and circuitous arguments.

I'm sorry you did. We don't always agree, but I enjoy your input and perspective on things. I'm glad that changed and you're here now.

[FtWorthJim]

Enough is enough Bioware why are you not doing anything about this it's time for a change and you need to start doing what other games like FFXIV do to these players that hunt and troll on a day to day basis within the game.

 

I also made a video about this Interview with someone who has been harassed daily Warning 24mins odd long

 

The only option that could solve 70% of the issues is the option for Account Ignore because the current ignore function has to many flaws and it also needs to include guild/personal stronghold invites because this is also being used as a way of in game harassment . Also the current report system is a joke it needs a complete rewrite in code with better options with just a right click on the users name in chat no matter where they are.

 

Right I have to admit somethings were not said correct it's not the entire community let me get that straight it's a certain few that are doing this to make it hard for certain players within the game.

 

If we all want this to stop in a game we all love since we are subs lets work together to make Eric Musco do his job so no player should have to get this in game it's just not right and should have no place within SWTOR.

 

You know if you REALLY wanted to show that you cared about toxicity, Fushnchips, You'd take down the last of your videos that smeared me on your YouTube. It's funny how you flip flop from Championing the anti-Toxic movement to being their banner boy. You can't say that being toxic is bad, but go into Twitch streams and trash Influencers.

 

The first step to changing the world is to change your own behavior.

Edited September 19, 2017 by FtWorthJim

[TUXs]

You can't say that being toxic is bad, but go into Twitch streams and trash Influencers.

Why is that? He can't have an opinion on Influencers? Or if he does, it has to be positive? Or what???

[FtWorthJim]

Why is that? He can't have an opinion on Influencers? Or if he does, it has to be positive? Or what???

 

He is entitled to his opinion, but he certainly shouldn't go into a 3rd party's Twitch and smear someone. Isn't bringing drama to an innocent person's stream Toxic??

[FtWorthJim]

It's also pretty hypocritical to say you are anti toxic behavior while posting daily videos trashing someone's game play and Twitch stream.

[TUXs]

He is entitled to his opinion, but he certainly shouldn't go into a 3rd party's Twitch and smear someone. Isn't bringing drama to an innocent person's stream Toxic??

I don't know the situation, so I can't say. Posting opinions on the interweb though, that's part of being online...you take the good and the bad.

[DarthEnrique]

It's also pretty hypocritical to say you are anti toxic behavior while posting daily videos trashing someone's game play and Twitch stream.

 

It's one thing to have an opinion it's another to trash talk. Personally I think if you don't agree with the person fine, but keep it to yourself.

 

Add-on: To clarify if you don't agree with something someone posted say on Facebook, don't engage it all. Or say here on the forums, you don't agree with what someone is saying don't say anything go make a thread about the opposite.

Edited September 19, 2017 by DarthEnrique

[DieAlteHexe]

I'm sorry you did. We don't always agree, but I enjoy your input and perspective on things. I'm glad that changed and you're here now.

 

Thanks, TUX.

 

Always up for discussion but when it goes all bickerfest...I'm out. And this thread has taken a turn for the worse.

 

See you elsewhere!

[Aeneas_Falco]

I agree, personally I think the whisper function needs to be a "friends only" option.

 

Absolutely not.

 

I wouldn't mind a function where a player can actively select to to have whispers be limited to players on their friends list, but that shouldn't be the case by default. If not for whispers there are many people who wouldn't have found guilds, people to group with for PVP, heroics, Ops, FPs, RP, the occasional trade deal, ect. There are a lot of legitimate reasons to use whispers with people who aren't on your friends list and whispers are used far more often for that purpose than they are to harass. How many of those people on friends lista ended up there after an exchange of whispers?

 

Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water...

Edited September 19, 2017 by Aeneas_Falco

[fushnchips]

You know if you REALLY wanted to show that you cared about toxicity, Fushnchips, You'd take down the last of your videos that smeared me on your YouTube. It's funny how you flip flop from Championing the anti-Toxic movement to being their banner boy. You can't say that being toxic is bad, but go into Twitch streams and trash Influencers.

 

The first step to changing the world is to change your own behavior.

 

So you complain when someone tries to do something about what is happening in game that is far more serious than a video that was made to point out facts not fiction and it was an " Opinion " and I'm allowed to have my opinion on my Youtube channel and as you found out there is not a thing you can do about it.