Galactic Command vs Previous SWTOR versions

[cyrusramsey]

Did you honestly try to say that paying for tuer 6 comp gifts (which you can still pay for, btw) is better than free tier 5/6 gifts in addition to raising comp influence via crafting? Lol, ok.

 

I was getting hundreds of tier 6 gifts per month that I bought with commendations, commendations that I couldn't spend on anything else that was useful to me anyway. Now I get less gifts for the same playtime, most of them are tier 5 and I can't pick which ones I get.

 

The old system was not just a tiny little bit better, it was immensely superior.

[leonlotus]

For me, its not about gear, it is the experience.

 

GC put you on a solo path. Lots of people spawn into content they have no interest in doing, with people they would rather not play with just because it gets more CXP. It used to be I did HM FP's every day in all roles, now I do none. The toxicity of farmers and their impatience drove me away.

 

And this toxicity extends into nearly every form of pick up group content, not just FP's. Pick up group content is one of the major attraction of MMO's.

 

So ever since, I buy two months game time, then take a break. The MMO fabric is broken. It goes beyond gear drops, and also has to do with changes to story, removal of progression, and all level lumping.

 

There used to be great adventures with new players that I would help in chat; now the enemies are easier, just basic attack as companion heals. When they get into group content, it must be some one elses fault. The current system, with level sync, story, and invulnerable questing creates a toxic set of new players. This drives away the decent old players, and is resulting in a shift of the player base in pick up group content where things can't be cleared anymore.

 

I was much happier when the level cap was level 55. I also kept my 162's to run FP's in, even though I had 186's/180's available for most characters. Its not about gear or credits, it is about adventure.

 

And in the new system, the places you used to adventure are ghost towns. This bug of CXP levels on some daily areas suddenly has them occupied, but before this bug it was empty. Sad.

 

Man, i agree with every word.

[olagatonjedi]

I was getting hundreds of tier 6 gifts per month that I bought with commendations, commendations that I couldn't spend on anything else that was useful to me anyway. Now I get less gifts for the same playtime, most of them are tier 5 and I can't pick which ones I get.

 

The old system was not just a tiny little bit better, it was immensely superior.

Again, you can still buy tier 6 comp gifts.

 

And you still get credits, which are used to buy comp gifts (or hundredes of other things if you wish) vs commendations, which were limited to purchasing certain things.

 

The fact that you had nothing else to purchase with the commendations is a very good reason to get rid of a limited resource, and open it up with use of a more open credits system.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

What about the equivalent to tier 3/4 non set bonus gear I could get prior to GC from comms/crystals?

 

Now we need to grind to level 180/300 JUST to get that gear dropping, previously we could get it on day one.

 

So yes the benefit is now being able to get set bonus where as you could not before without doing ops, that's definitely a plus.

 

However overall you end up MUCH worse off in how long it takes you to effectively reach the same strength you would have prior to GC if doing content that rewards comms/crystals, benefit though is you can get stronger in time than you could before from the same content.

 

If you weren't doing content that rewards comms/crystals then honestly who the hell cares about gear because you certainly don't need it - just the vanity system of GC is great for those sort of players.

 

Also I find some of your examples a tad disingenuous because you make out like you just do a heroic or kill an NPc and there is your chance of an item when the reality is quite a bit more long winded in regards to time than that.

 

I do agree operations overall are in a better state but I also believe it's made PVP worse due to the far worse gearing rate than it had before.

[xRohanx]

i play about 12-20 hours a week, sometimes broken up into 30-60 min chunks.

PVP or PVE? PVP and PVE? Operations, FP's?

[olagatonjedi]

PVP or PVE? PVP and PVE? Operations, FP's?

I enjoy all, and mix it up.

[olagatonjedi]

What about the equivalent to tier 3/4 non set bonus gear I could get prior to GC from comms/crystals?

 

Now we need to grind to level 180/300 JUST to get that gear dropping, previously we could get it on day one.

 

So yes the benefit is now being able to get set bonus where as you could not before without doing ops, that's definitely a plus.

 

However overall you end up MUCH worse off in how long it takes you to effectively reach the same strength you would have prior to GC if doing content that rewards comms/crystals, benefit though is you can get stronger in time than you could before from the same content.

 

If you weren't doing content that rewards comms/crystals then honestly who the hell cares about gear because you certainly don't need it - just the vanity system of GC is great for those sort of players.

 

Also I find some of your examples a tad disingenuous because you make out like you just do a heroic or kill an NPc and there is your chance of an item when the reality is quite a bit more long winded in regards to time than that.

 

I do agree operations overall are in a better state but I also believe it's made PVP worse due to the far worse gearing rate than it had before.

I can log in right now and have the potential to acquire a tier 3 or tier 4 item within a day, even starting at GC rank 1. How is that being worse off than any previous version of swtor?

Edited September 10, 2017 by olagatonjedi
updated correction

[xRohanx]

I enjoy all, and mix it up.

For example. Tonight you have 2 hours to play. What will you do to get the maximum amount of CXP? If you say that other players don't do it right, show your scenario of CXP grind. In an ideal situation with ideal conditions, of course. When you don't spend 2 hours in the group finder.

[olagatonjedi]

For example. Tonight you have 2 hours to play. What will you do to get the maximum amount of CXP? If you say that other players don't do it right, show your scenario of CXP grind. In an ideal situation with ideal conditions, of course. When you don't spend 2 hours in the group finder.

I do whatever sounda fun, or whatwver goal I set for myself. If I want to gear up, i either do pvp for UC's if I already have a shell, or run an sm/hm ops for the piece i want, and follow it up with pvp. Perhaps a flashpoint for some additional cxp or for achievements. I honestly dont count what gives the best cxp because i never felt it was going too slow in the first place. I log in to do what I want to do, and at the end of my night, I look at all the free crates Ive accumulatwd having fun/failing, and hope I get lucky in addition to the stuff I actively pursued. Some nights I end up with nothing, which is no different than some nights running HM/gf ops back in 4.x. Luck of the draw has always been part of ops/fps with pugs.

 

If ranked iant popping, i join unranked. If gf isnt popping, i try to form a pug. If nothing is going on, i find solo content to finish achievements, craft 246 gear for alts, or challenge myself soloing vet fp's or mm story instances. Possibly even running the fastest non-combat heroics to earn quick credits.

 

No matter what, im getting cxp at some rate that will benefit me later. It doesnt feel like a grind because i can switch up what i want to do whenever i want, and still be heading towards improving my toons.

Edited September 8, 2017 by olagatonjedi

[xRohanx]

I do whatever sounda fun, or whatwver goal I set for myself. If I want to gear up, i either do pvp for UC's if I already have a shell, or run an sm/hm ops for the piece i want, and follow it up with pvp. Perhaps a flashpoint for some additional cxp or for achievements. I honestly dont count what gives the best cxp because i never felt it was going too slow in the first place. I log in to do what I want to do, and at the end of my night, I look at all the free crates Ive accumulatwd having fun/failing, and hope I get lucky in addition to the stuff I actively pursued. Some nights I end up with nothing, which is no different than some nights running HM/gf ops back in 4.x. Luck of the draw has always been part of ops/fps with pugs.

 

If ranked iant popping, i join unranked. If gf isnt popping, i try to form a pug. If nothing is going on, i find solo content to finish achievements, craft 246 gear for alts, or challenge myself soloing vet fp's or mm story instances. Possibly even running the fastest non-combat heroics to earn quick credits.

 

No matter what, im getting cxp at some rate that will benefit me later. It doesnt feel like a grind because i can switch up what i want to do whenever i want, and still be heading towards improving my toons.

That is, you do not hope for any result and just hope for your luck? And you advise this as the right way? But above, you give the numbers and say that the other ways are wrong. I'm trying to understand your logic.

Edited September 8, 2017 by xRohanx

[olagatonjedi]

That is, you do not hope for any result and just hope for your luck? And you advise this as the right way? But above, you give the numbers and say that the other ways are wrong. I'm trying to understand your logic.

Im not understanding you. I didnt say other ways to gear are the wrong way. Nor did I say the RNG is the best way to gear. More specifically, I said GC is free gear with potential to get (or upgrade) to 248 that you never had a chance at by doing basic content.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I can log in right now and have the potential to acquire a tier 3 or tier 4 item within a day, without utilizing GC, or even with a GC rank 1 toon. How is that being worse off than any previous version of swtor?

 

From doing what content?

Previously I could get Tier 3/4 items from doing any content that awarded comms/crystals - what are you doing now that is equivalent or better that isn't operations or buying crafted goods?

 

We can still do operations and buy crafted goods so that is moot and hasn't ideally changed but they have removed a currency that allowed us access to that gear on day 1 for a system that requires a massive grind to even reach this qualifying point.

[cyrusramsey]

Again, you can still buy tier 6 comp gifts.

 

And you still get credits, which are used to buy comp gifts (or hundredes of other things if you wish) vs commendations, which were limited to purchasing certain things.

 

The fact that you had nothing else to purchase with the commendations is a very good reason to get rid of a limited resource, and open it up with use of a more open credits system.

 

First I got credits and also the means to get lots and lots of gifts, gifts of good quality and exactly the kind I wanted, and be richer for it in the process.

 

Now I'd have to pay an absolutely ridiculous fortune for just a handful of gifts. I would have to play ten times as much and I'd still not get enough credits to buy what I used to get for comms/crystals, and back then I'd only make money that I could then spend on other things while doing so.

 

I realize that you just want to be right, or maybe just to get responses, but there is no way to explain this as an improvement. The credit gifts are obscenely expensive, because (and they specifically mentioned this) they wanted GC to be the primary source of getting the best gifts. So instead of having a useful source where I could work towards getting exactly what I wanted, and lots of it, now I need to work either 20 times as hard and not have any credits left over to show for it, or rely on RNG, which will give me lesser gifts and most of the time not the ones I want.

 

Also, you singled out the gift part, but the original point had been that these, even while not even remotely as useful as the original situation, were the only worthwhile things gotten from HUNDREDS of crates.

 

It's okay for you to like the system, it really is. For some people it works very well, it seems. That does not mean that it's an improvement for everyone, for most people, for me, for someone else.

 

For me (and judging by this thread, many other people), GC is a serious deterioration to gameplay in all of its aspects except for being able to quickly access content.

 

Maybe it still can be salvaged, but the old way was quantifiably superior in every way that I experienced it.

[Totemdancer]

Previous versions of gearing are far superior to this gear grind. Enough said !!

[xRohanx]

Im not understanding you. I didnt say other ways to gear are the wrong way.

Previously you said:

You have tools in place that you can use to improve your gaming experience - are you using them? Probably not.

Probably not, you said. That means not enough. So I asked you what is enough, since you undertook to teach people how to perceive the CXP system. And so I asked you what you are doing in the game to know what "is enough". You said, do what you like and hope for luck. But this is how almost all players act. It seems that you are lost in your own arguments.

Nor did I say the RNG is the best way to gear.

And you said:

Im defending cxp because it the best system I have seen that caters to all players, and includes all content the gane has to offer.

So the best or not the best? The RNG is a main part of the CXP system. It seems that you do not remember what you are saying.

Edited September 8, 2017 by xRohanx

[Vember]

Previous versions of gearing are far superior to this gear grind. Enough said !!

 

I don't see how...before you had to run pvp for pvp only gear, and you had to run Ops for Pve only gear, the two were not interchangeable. Now, you only need one set of gear, and it can be gotten from every activity in the game. So, to me, the new system is far superior.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Vember

[olagatonjedi]

From doing what content?

Previously I could get Tier 3/4 items from doing any content that awarded comms/crystals - what are you doing now that is equivalent or better that isn't operations or buying crafted goods?

In 4.x, to get tier 216/220 gear you had to run vet/mm flashpoints or ops - that was all you could do. In your words - ANYTHING that awarded comms/crystals. In addition, you had a very limited amount of crystals you could obtain by doing dailies and weeklies. In fact, I remember many times where I was left 5 crystals short of acquiring a piece of gear because I had already expended all my available resources for acquiring those crystals. Oh, and those crystals were also not transferrable via legacy. Come to think of it, the limitation of glowing and radiant crystals would not allow you to get 1 piece of gear in a single day's worth of dailies/weeklies, iirc.

 

Now, I can not limited by "anything that awards comms/crystals" because I can either do Ops to get the shells for the items, or I can run ANYTHING ELSE, through the secondary system called CXP and still have an opportunity to upgrade my toon(s).

 

Also, you singled out the gift part, but the original point had been that these, even while not even remotely as useful as the original situation, were the only worthwhile things gotten from HUNDREDS of crates.

How many tier 5 and 6 gifts did you get for killing trash in alderaan during the Rakghoul event, during 4.x? Easy answer - 0. How many can you get now? The sky is the limit because CXP is rewarded everywhere. CXP is the replacement for trash loot, a secondary system, that rewards exponentially better than any amount of trash/quests/heroics that have ever come before it. I can't put it any plainer than that.

 

Previously you said:

 

Probably not, you said. That means not enough. So I asked you what is enough, since you undertook to teach people how to perceive the CXP system. And so I asked you what you are doing in the game to know what "is enough". You said, do what you like and hope for luck. But this is how almost all players act. It seems that you are lost in your own arguments.

Those statements were in regards to a poster stating that he was upset that people were in a rush to finish flashpoints and ops. It was not in reference to anything regarding CXP, which I believe I stated in the my response as well. There are always people that play like that, with or without a cxp system in place. I stated that that poster has a lot of different things that he, personally, can do to improve his gaming experience, such as use ignore to prevent himself from grouping with those players in the future, form his own groups with his own objectives and see if others have similar interests, etc. Again, it had no reference to cxp. Perhaps that is where you were confused. Hopefully, I clarified well enough.

 

And you said:

 

So the best or not the best? The RNG is a main part of the CXP system. It seems that you do not remember what you are saying.

It is the best system that caters to everyone, in allowing progression for doing anything you want. CXP is not the best primary GEARING system, but it is very good as a secondary gearing system. Again, I hope I clarified my previous posts better.

[Lionflash]

If you only played one type of content, then it's very likely it's harder to gear now than before. If you play more than one type of content, I'd say it's likely way easier.

 

I only really played PVP before 5.0 because my gear locked me out of other content. Now I have one set of gear per character with an implant that I swap in & out when I switch between content. Some of my classes, like tank or MM Sniper keep the same gear between all activities because their accuracy is 110%

 

Also like you said, you get something for all activities. I used to only GSF on one character but now I do on all 8. I much prefer how things are now, but if I continued to only PVP exclusively, or didn't like gsf or pve or wtv I'd probably think it's way worse. So in the end it's just personal preference.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Lionflash

[olagatonjedi]

If you only played one type of content, then it's very likely it's harder to gear now than before. If you play more than one type of content, I'd say it's likely way easier.

I completely agree with that statement. In fact, I believe that a system like we have now is a step in the right direction to expand the playing experience for swtor subscribers. In the past, players had no incentive to try something they never had. Non-pvpers can be intimidated by the idea of failure or playing against other people, so they may have stayed away in the past. Now they have a reason to at least try it, and maybe break the ice a bit. Who knows, they may end up developing an extreme interest in the new, fresh part of the game they never played before. I was the same way with NiM ops. I was intimidated, and eventually got to a point where I put my fears aside and tried (didn't need the current loot system for me to do it though).

 

Ultimately, i believe bioware has more than enough playerbase to make them happy, so all this talk about "game is dying" is likely far from their minds. However, when large percentages of your playerbase are limiting themselves to only 1/4 of the content (for whatever reasons each and every subscriber does), it shows that the company isn't using the full potential of their playerbase. The old system gave incentives to pick one area of the game and focus only on that. It didn't leave much room to try other stuff. Now, the system encourages (possibly forces, but that's another discussion altogether) you to try different things to give yourself a chance to progress your toon more often.

 

If all they had was 1000 subs, but they created a system that incentivized all 1000 subs to participate in a specific event, those subs would always have people to interact and group and raid with. They have just done it on a larger scale, with more than 1 "event." They incentivise ops, pvp, heroics, flashpoints, solo content - nearly everything, in some form or fashion. Not saying its perfect, but it's a step in the right direction for the population that it does retain long term.

Edited September 8, 2017 by olagatonjedi

[Quraswren]

In 4.x, to get tier 216/220 gear you had to run vet/mm flashpoints or ops - that was all you could do.

 

That is false. You could run any content and get crystals to buy that gear. Doing so was slower than OPS and FP but it could be done as I did it for alts and could even supliment it a bit from my main.

 

In your words - ANYTHING that awarded comms/crystals. In addition, you had a very limited amount of crystals you could obtain by doing dailies and weeklies. In fact, I remember many times where I was left 5 crystals short of acquiring a piece of gear because I had already expended all my available resources for acquiring those crystals. Oh, and those crystals were also not transferrable via legacy. Come to think of it, the limitation of glowing and radiant crystals would not allow you to get 1 piece of gear in a single day's worth of dailies/weeklies, iirc.

 

Not in a single day but I could in a 2 week rotation and now with GC I get nothing usable even at 300 because of RNG and how it is desgined to screw you over more than help. I could also get the exact item I wanted back then. Something this joke of a system called GC does not allow. I could also trasfer that gear through legacy to an alt if bought on a main. Left gear has always been limited in that capacity so that really doesn't fall into the convo.

 

Now, I can not limited by "anything that awards comms/crystals" because I can either do Ops to get the shells for the items, or I can run ANYTHING ELSE, through the secondary system called CXP and still have an opportunity to upgrade my toon(s).

 

You are limited by RNG and thats detrimental to gaming the way bw designed it after 4.x. At least with crystals you could do any content (at a slower pace) and get exactly what gear you wanted. You got toe choose. It was VERY ALT FRIENDLY and thats soething GC is not. Do more alts, get gear faster. Thats a huge positive and something GC doesn't allow. It might not be set bonuses but we all know most gamers didn't need that. The ones that did were already getting that gear.

 

Thats why I preach the old crystal system should have been adjusted vs pushing out GC as a new thing that is not better than hat we had. In 4.0 I had more alts geared sooner and with the pieces they needed and didn't have to spend millions of credits to do it and that is something GC cannot do or replicate as it relies on RNG.

 

In saying all that sure you can get gear primarily in OPS but you could do that back therm too but GC is not superior to 4.x. Just the ability to choose what gear you need makes GC stupid by design right out of the gate hen you compare it to 4.X.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Quraswren

[olagatonjedi]

That is false. You could run any content and get crystals to buy that gear. Doing so was slower than OPS and FP but it could be done as I did it for alts and could even supliment it a bit from my main.

 

 

 

Not in a single day but I could in a 2 week rotation and now with GC I get nothing usable even at 300 because of RNG and how it is desgined to screw you over more than help. I could also get the exact item I wanted back then. Something this joke of a system called GC does not allow. I could also trasfer that gear through legacy to an alt if bought on a main. Left gear has always been limited in that capacity so that really doesn't fall into the convo.

 

 

 

You are limited by RNG and thats detrimental to gaming the way bw designed it after 4.x. At least with crystals you could do any content (at a slower pace) and get exactly what gear you wanted. You got toe choose. It was VERY ALT FRIENDLY and thats soething GC is not. Do more alts, get gear faster. Thats a huge positive and something GC doesn't allow. It might not be set bonuses but we all know most gamers didn't need that. The ones that did were already getting that gear.

 

Thats why I preach the old crystal system should have been adjusted vs pushing out GC as a new thing that is not better than hat we had. In 4.0 I had more alts geared sooner and with the pieces they needed and didn't have to spend millions of credits to do it and that is something GC cannot do or replicate as it relies on RNG.

 

In saying all that sure you can get gear primarily in OPS but you could do that back therm too but GC is not superior to 4.x. Just the ability to choose what gear you need makes GC stupid by design right out of the gate hen you compare it to 4.X.

You cant get screwed by something that is a free reward. You sound like another one of those players putting all their stock in CXP and neglecting the game itself.

[Quraswren]

You cant get screwed by something that is a free reward. You sound like another one of those players putting all their stock in CXP and neglecting the game itself.

 

That is also false as it is not free because time is not free.

 

You had to put time into it or there is nothing. You sound like one of those people that fall for used car salesman tactics. Stop it as there is nothing good in that.

 

You spend the time, get the crate and as per the way it is designed. It's garbage and when you do think you have something interesting. It tends to be the same blue you deleted 10 times before.

 

Stop falling for the used car salesman tactics on GC.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Quraswren

[olagatonjedi]

That is also false as it is not free because time is not free.

 

You had to put time into it or there is nothing. You sound like one of those people that fall for used car salesman tactics. Stop it as there is nothing good in that.

 

You spend the time, get the crate and as per the way it is designed. It's garbage and when you do think you have something interesting. It tends to be the same blue you deleted 10 times before.

 

Stop falling for the used car salesman tactics on GC.

You dont HAVE to do anything.

 

It makes perfect sense to me. You're getting screwed over by something you aren't required to participate in. Yep, makes perfect sense.

Edited September 8, 2017 by olagatonjedi

[Quraswren]

You dont HAVE to do anything.

 

It makes perfect sense to me. You're getting screwed over by something you aren't required to participate in. Yep, makes perfect sense.

 

Of course you don't have to do anything but if you are in game at all, your whole post makes no sense because you will be getting screwed over when you compare GC to anything in 4.X

 

LikeI said, just the ability to choose what gear you wanted makes GC quite possibly one of the worst added features we could have gotten. Especially so when they could have taken teh system for 4.X and adjusted it to do everything GC does and more and it would have been a system gamers were already used to and would still have less currency than we do now. Which BTW, bw claimed they are trying to get away from. GC just makes little sense in the health of SWTOR when 4.X was so much better.

[TUXs]

You dont HAVE to do anything.

Since over 2 million former players did exactly that prior to you posting this, I think it's safe to assume that that was common knowledge long before you posted it...you're over 5 years late to the party.