Skank Tank or Shank Tank imbalance

[Caeliuxrules]

Nightrain is more qualified to speak on tanking/skank tanks in pvp more than anyone else on this thread. He is probably the best pvp group ranked/solo ranked tank in the game through multiple seasons and has the most experience. If he says it's a learn to play issue I would take his opinion more seriously.

 

I think you need learn to comment on a class you actually play. You play a healer so post healer forums.

 

I don't care if Jesus plays, ATM in 2017, tanks in this game needs fix. Bioware knows it and even the best tanks knows skank tank is actually not suppose to be in this game.

 

Nice snip though.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Caeliuxrules

[Evolixe]

Their arguement is weak but you do need to prove/show/explain that skank tanking is broken too. Just saying their arguement is weak isn't enough. Prove your point.

 

My point wasn't to show how the argument was weak. Just that it was weak. So it served it's purpose fine.

 

And before you go all "well, then why post at all?" It incites discussion.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Evolixe

[Caeliuxrules]

Forget it, people want pvp to be balanced around regs. Who cares if team ranked will be destroyed.

 

But there's a little problem: guess how many people would it take to kill a fixed mitigation tank and a guarded healer?

 

You mean like it used to be before bolster and mini maxing in 8 man ranked?

 

Dps had to kill, hard switch had to happen.

 

Tank means tank, absorb, defense, meat shield.

 

Tank don't mean knife, gun, sword, and paper bag shield.

 

Catch my drift, mitigation tanks worked, it was meta back then and should be now.

 

Problem is bolster, and implementation to tanks in this game.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Caeliuxrules

[Cretinus]

If a dps geared toon is going to guard, just dps them (tank spec included). They will likely remove guard fast to keep from taking extra damage. They shouldnt last very long as it is.

 

If the scenario you are complaining about primarily involves a healer, that is not a guard issue but a healer issue.

 

Your advice is like telling to the thirsty castaway to drink some tea, if he has ran out of water.

[-Bob-]

They need to react quicker.

It would probably be helpful if BeeDubya was less reactive and more proactive.

[kissingaiur]

I think you need learn to comment on a class you actually play. You play a healer so post healer forums.

 

Nah, I'm good.

[Caeliuxrules]

Nightrain is more qualified to speak on tanking/skank tanks in pvp more than anyone else on this thread. He is probably the best pvp group ranked/solo ranked tank in the game through multiple seasons and has the most experience. If he says it's a learn to play issue I would take his opinion more seriously.

@Grim In regards to your discussion with Doc, Doc is one of the top PvP Maras in the game. He has a strong understanding of all the Maras specs. He is in good standing for top 3 Mara in solo ranked (2500+ rated) and activity playing Anni in group ranked as well as Carnage for group rank hardswap verse the best PvP group rank teams in the game. He understand the class on the highest level in regards to PvP. I would sit down and listen to him, maybe you could learn something.

 

You have a theme on these forums and a self absorbed way of speaking in behalf of players that are successful in a broken system in swtor.

 

What amazes me is you actually think everyone is irrelevant with any facts just because you think someone behind a keyboard that you play with is better than the rest of the 99% of pvpers in this game.

 

I remember who you are and where you come from, and let's get facts down. You was farmed in arena by pizza cats, was farmed by 3 pt feelsbadman, was farmed in regs and cried on forums about your class. I remember how you was irrelevant playing with lukewarm.

 

So before you spit any fan base **** riding on these forums, make sure you put bandwagon on your signature just in case someone really thinks your serious.

 

#rekt

Edited August 16, 2017 by Caeliuxrules

[DenariusJay]

/unzips pants

 

EE PEEEEENN MEASURE TIEM!!!!!

[Caeliuxrules]

/unzips pants

 

EE PEEEEENN MEASURE TIEM!!!!!

 

My swartz is bigger brah.

 

😂😂😂😂😂

[kissingaiur]

Snip

 

Nah, fam I just take class advice and theorycrafting from players who are better than me so I know I will always get the most creditable advice. You should try it once and a while.

 

If I need tanking advice I would go to nightrain, molra, valek

If I need healing advice I would go ask puddlejumper or poison

If I need dps advice I would ask doc or sink

 

Go to players who are the best of the best in this game and profit. Or spend your days crying on forums. Your pick.

[DerSchneider]

You mean like it used to be before bolster and mini maxing in 8 man ranked?

 

Dps had to kill, hard switch had to happen.

 

Tank means tank, absorb, defense, meat shield.

 

Tank don't mean knife, gun, sword, and paper bag shield.

 

Catch my drift, mitigation tanks worked, it was meta back then and should be now.

 

Problem is bolster, and implementation to tanks in this game.

 

Why do you keep repeating about that 8 man ranked everywhere?

In first years of this game TTK was WAY shorter and DCDs were WAY weaker.

 

Just for a comparison:

 

Jugg - No ED basically

Mara - No godlike obfuscate, no CC immunity at ALL, undying consumes 50% hp

Shadow - No phantasm, vanish on 2x longer cooldown (utility but doesn't matter)

Sorc - No phasewalk, no cloud mind DR, no bubbleheal, no enduring bastion

PT - almost unchanged, that's why they were OP back then and they're garbage atm

Merc - No healing shield, no super kolto, no reflect, no decoy

Ops - no probes (and no DR) no revitalizers

Snipers - no healing from roll, no healing shield, preparation only in engineering, 2x weaker cover heal

 

Maybe I missed something, bc it was long ago, but it's plenty.

 

Imagine having all that bunch of DCDs right now, followed by mitigation tanks and OP healers. Wanna play such 8 man ranked? I personally don't. That will just not work, game needs more damage, not less.

Edited August 16, 2017 by DerSchneider

[Caeliuxrules]

Nah, fam I just take class advice and theorycrafting from players who are better than me so I know I will always get the most creditable advice. You should try it once and a while.

 

If I need tanking advice I would go to nightrain, molra, valek

If I need healing advice I would go ask puddlejumper or poison

If I need dps advice I would ask doc or sink

 

Go to players who are the best of the best in this game and profit. Or spend your days crying on forums. Your pick.

 

So basically you have no substance to anything on these forums because you think someone is good cause of 4 man ranked imbalance.

 

I ask advice too, but understand what balance means.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Caeliuxrules

[kissingaiur]

So basically you have no substance to anything on these forums because you think someone is good cause of 4 man ranked imbalance.

 

I ask advice too, but understand what balance means.

 

??????????

 

 

I have no substance because I take my advice from players who actually know how to play the game/class/spec in pvp on the highest level?

 

What? LOL.

[Caeliuxrules]

Why do you keep repeating about that 8 man ranked everywhere?

In first years of this game TTK was WAY shorter and DCDs were WAY weaker.

 

Just for a comparison:

 

Jugg - No ED basically

Mara - No godlike obfuscate, no CC immunity at ALL, undying consumes 50% hp

Shadow - No phantasm, vanish on 2x longer cooldown (utility but doesn't matter)

Sorc - No phasewalk, no cloud mind DR

PT - almost unchanged, that's why they were OP back then and they're garbage atm

Merc - No healing shield, no super kolto, no reflect, no decoy

Ops - no probes (and no DR) no revitalizers

Snipers - no healing from roll, no healing shield, double DCDs only in engineering, 2x weaker cover heal

 

Maybe I missed something, bc it was long ago, but it's plenty.

 

Imagine having all that bunch of DCDs right now, followed by mitigation tanks and OP healers. Wanna play such 8 man ranked? I personally don't. That will just not work, game needs more damage, not less.

 

Jug and all tanks need balance man. Jug defense Dps needs to be better.

 

Before bolster tanks was tanks, jug immortal was great back them, where sin tank aka guard nodes would hybrid a little to guard.

 

Maybe I'm a fossil to this game and hate bolster. I know you are a great player nighttrain but you can't be blind to a hot fix for jug and rest of tanks.

[Evolixe]

Bolster is not an issue, it doesn't even affect anything in the game at all at the higher levels.

[yellow_]

Bolster is not an issue

^^

 

if anything bolster actually pushes tanks in the direction our esteemed OP wants them to go because it gives you ****loads of mitigation stats most PVP tank experts don't actually want due to how much grinding it takes to get all your gear above the bolster item rating in comparison to the past patches

Edited August 16, 2017 by yellow_

[Caeliuxrules]

Bolster is not an issue, it doesn't even affect anything in the game at all at the higher levels.

 

Bolster is an problem with balance changes though. I believe it's sole reason why we have balance problems including why tanks in this game is hard to figure out with combat team to have mitigation. If bolster wasn't in game like old days tanks would be forced to wear actual tanking gear to tank properly. Skank tank back in old days was a 1 vs 1 spec nothing more for 8 man ranked.

[Evolixe]

Bolster is an problem with balance changes though. I believe it's sole reason why we have balance problems including why tanks in this game is hard to figure out with combat team to have mitigation. If bolster wasn't in game like old days tanks would be forced to wear actual tanking gear to tank properly. Skank tank back in old days was a 1 vs 1 spec nothing more for 8 man ranked.

 

Bolster doesnt do ANYTHING for you in full 248, and people "skank tank" there en masse.

I don't think you quite understand how bolster actually works.

[Caeliuxrules]

??????????

 

 

I have no substance because I take my advice from players who actually know how to play the game/class/spec in pvp on the highest level?

 

What? LOL.

 

You snip and quote what other people do. Yes you have no actual substance to this thread unless you actually tank in this game for pvp or pve like I do or anyone else.

 

I also know nighttrain is relevant on this topic, never said he wasn't but he plays skank dps and tank in this game and wants balance just like all of us want as well .

[yellow_]

If bolster wasn't in game like old days tanks would be forced to wear actual tanking gear to tank properly.

????? How?

 

Once all your gear is over 238 or whatever bolster doesn't even do anything. As per usual you don't know what you're talking about

[Caeliuxrules]

Bolster doesnt do ANYTHING for you in full 248, and people "skank tank" there en masse.

I don't think you quite understand how bolster actually works.

 

We have went off topic. This isn't about bolster it's about skank tank imbalance mate.

 

I know what bolster does and it's a broken system.

[Evolixe]

We have went off topic. This isn't about bolster it's about skank tank imbalance mate.

 

I know what bolster does and it's a broken system.

 

You brought it up as a factor. It isn't. In any case most of the community wants bolster to have a bigger effect than it does now, simply to even the playing field for lesser geared people. Sure as **** don't want it removed.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Evolixe

[Sargrith]

Hey people, quick question.

 

Do we even all agree skank tanks are broken or unbalanced?

 

 

If you do believe this give me some idea why and by how much if you can. So we can talk about this and share our thoughts and ideas in a more meaningful way.

 

Here is why I think they aren't broken as is even if the concept of them being a hybrid isn't wanted.

 

They are not as good at dps as normal DPS classes/builds. I know skank tanking really from the guardian angle best, but I also know the dps and tank builds for PvP ok. I am not claiming to be a master or even slightly above average player, but I think I am average more or less. I play most classes as dps a lot and never hit the same numbers unless people are grouping up on me as a skank guardian. Even then I do way more with a dps guardian even and no one thinks a dps guardian is doing awesome dps.

 

I think as a skank tank my defenses are as good as most dps classes/builds or better. I think commandos, slingers, sents, and scoundrels can give me a run for the money on defenses but I might be as good as any, well maybe not commandos those three lives are hard to match.

 

I think guarding with a skank tank is powerful as my health will be high and my defenses solid enough to keep guard up even on a heavily focused ally. This might be the tipping point. My defenses are in my mind and from my feel only very slightly worse then a full tank so I can resist nearly as much damage as one. That is to me the biggest issue with skank tanks, not their damage or defenses but their defense combined with guard. Thing is if a dps commando had guard would not be as much of an issue as a skank guardian? I think he would. But right now if you bring the dps guardian to be on par with those others....he would become the same issue skank tanks are. Right? But you do need to balance the dps guardian don't you?

[Caeliuxrules]

You brought it up as a factor. It isn't. In any case most of the community wants bolster to have a bigger effect than it does now, simply to even the playing field for lesser geared people. Sure as **** don't want it removed.

 

Guess this where we disagree mate . To me bolster is a easy excuse for pvpers to have a handicap. I rather have a gear grind and minimax than a bolster in regs. I as well liked expertise back then where you needed it as well as valor for gear.

 

I do think bolster plays a huge part of balance in this game and it sure has had more problems than a cure.

[Caeliuxrules]

Hey people, quick question.

 

Do we even all agree skank tanks are broken or unbalanced?

 

 

If you do believe this give me some idea why and by how much if you can. So we can talk about this and share our thoughts and ideas in a more meaningful way.

 

Here is why I think they aren't broken as is even if the concept of them being a hybrid isn't wanted.

 

They are not as good at dps as normal DPS classes/builds. I know skank tanking really from the guardian angle best, but I also know the dps and tank builds for PvP ok. I am not claiming to be a master or even slightly above average player, but I think I am average more or less. I play most classes as dps a lot and never hit the same numbers unless people are grouping up on me as a skank guardian. Even then I do way more with a dps guardian even and no one thinks a dps guardian is doing awesome dps.

 

I think as a skank tank my defenses are as good as most dps classes/builds or better. I think commandos, slingers, sents, and scoundrels can give me a run for the money on defenses but I might be as good as any, well maybe not commandos those three lives are hard to match.

 

I think guarding with a skank tank is powerful as my health will be high and my defenses solid enough to keep guard up even on a heavily focused ally. This might be the tipping point. My defenses are in my mind and from my feel only very slightly worse then a full tank so I can resist nearly as much damage as one. That is to me the biggest issue with skank tanks, not their damage or defenses but their defense combined with guard. Thing is if a dps commando had guard would not be as much of an issue as a skank guardian? I think he would. But right now if you bring the dps guardian to be on par with those others....he would become the same issue skank tanks are. Right? But you do need to balance the dps guardian don't you?

 

Problem is tank absorb and defense rating don't apply in pvp current. It used to before bolster was introduced.

 

So to fix it they need to make shield actually work with a defensive rating where mitigation is happening. It's why people are going skank tank, to provide offence where they can have a guard as well, it's a dps tank not s defensive mind set in 2017 swtor.

 

Until combat team fixes guard, fixes mitigation, fixes all 3 tanks trees, we are going to have a imbalance of stacked dps tanks in regs and in ranked.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Caeliuxrules