Slicing post-nerf, please look at the numbers BW

[Darksx]

Slicing is still very profitable. You slice a node out in the wild, you get instant gratification. I can do it at level 17, I'm sure you can do it too.

 

You clearly lack any understanding of what’s going on here. Your stupid comments only insult most of us.

 

At level 17 you are slicing nodes that only profit about 100 to 200 credits. There are far and few between of those nodes to be found. Not to mention how many of them are bugged and not working at all.

 

I’m level 27 on Balmorra and this is a level 20 planet. The slicing nodes there are set to 25. I mean, WFT! 25? I rarely find a node that is around 55 to 90. Even when you do find one of those they still produce low credits.

 

I use slicing for buying the mats and materials I need to get by with. Slicing does not produce me an item unless I slice a mission for an Augment. I never go for the augments only because they are worthless. There is rarely any gear that uses them and they do not sell very well on the AH.

 

All other profession net some type of return that can be sold on the AH. Slicing does not it returns credits so we can buy those items. Now that we are limited on our buying power. good luck to the rest of you that have items that want to sell those items. Those of us with Slicing are now very limited on what we can buy and how much we can spend.

 

It really bugs me to no end with those who are not using the Slicing profession come in here and inject their comments about a profession they clearly have no understanding about and are going off rumor or someone else comments about how Slicing is so over powered. I’m sorry, it’s not over powered. it was helping me to maintain my funds so I could buy those items in question for my Sythweaving. I now am unable to do so, because those items are overpriced and I cannot afford to buy them anymore. And keep up with leveling and trying to save money for Speeder training.

 

So thank you to all those complainers for ruining our profession.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Darksx

[Crucias]

After reading through some of this I know understand why my sale income from the GTN has dropped substantially. I used to make a reasonable profit by selling purple Hilts and Crystals and now I haven't sold a thing since the patch

[bukosknr]

Anyone else simply having their posts removed? I've lost a few now. So I guess they are looking at it, just simply removing our posts and not replying.

[Zilliztra]

I honestly do not understand all the whineing in this thead, and let me tell you why:

 

You are whining over a gathering skill. A gathering skill where you do not gathere, you just lamely send your companoins away and expect to get a fat paycheck.

 

..yes?

 

that is like saying that Archeaology should give more mats in return per mission than you can possible farm in that same amount of time.

 

and that is just stupid and lame.

 

If you do not want to use your GATHERING skill to GATHER, then do not expect it to give a huge profit, or be very efficient.

 

Try and put things into perspective.

 

And yes, if you level crafting while leveling you will run out of money, but that is because you buy all the patterns at once, and that has nothing to do with slicing or the cost of crafting trainers.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Zilliztra

[Oneirophrenia]

Yes, please rage-drop slicing. The more the merrier. I will keep slicing on my alt so now there are more safes in the wild for me to pick up! It's kind of amusing how tunnel vision fixated solely on lockbox missions can cloud ones judgement. I mean seriously, which part of "sitting in fleet station slicing tens of thousands credits while watching a football game on TV for a couple of hours" actually made sense? That's can hardly be considered as actively participating in a MMO. To put it in layman's term that is unique to MMOs, it's called "afk farming".

 

Of course, one can *attempt* to make a similar argument towards the other gathering skills but it is little more than illogical deflection. Sure, you can afk while the gathering missions are counting down but eventually you will have to move around to sell or craft the gear/components. In other words, it actually involves *some* effort on the part of the player. In contrast, slicing is 5 mouse clicks and twiddle your thumbs while waiting for free credits to roll in, rinse and repeat. I can do that all day long while I do my laundry, take a shower, make dinner, read a book, watch TV, or heck, play *another* game on my laptop. AFK farming indeed.

 

As for the argument of:

 

"So what if slicing pumps in a lot of fast credits into the economy, it's not a bad thing for people to have money to buy things since the sellers would profit too."

 

Sorry but that's completely bunk. It doesn't work in real life nor does it work in MMOs. Typical armchair economist logic. More liquidity generally leads to higher inflation. By nature, most MMO economies already have problems with excess liquidity, meaning there are more money coming in than going out. Name one MMO where the average price for marketable goods haven't gone up over the years. That is also why developers are constantly looking to implement ever more (and expensive) money sinks. Now if that in-flow is not regulated and monitored, inflation will only get more out of control. Call it socialism if you want to but it is still a necessary evil regardless. The ideal of unfettered capitalism and free market is a grandiose delusion. In such a system, the "haves" will have little trouble keeping up with the inflation rate but the "have-nots" can't say the same. This is not coming from a "have-not" either. Frankly, that "trickle down" BS does not work because hoarding wealth is human nature. This problem will be further compounded by the disproportionate amount of players taking up slicing. I don't think anyone can disagree with that assessment. With that said, who is going to make the items to sell on the GTN? That lack of supply (especially in high end gear) with drive up the prices even more, effectively pricing out the non-slicers.

 

Last thought. The devs will probably bump slicing back up in the future. However, they will probably wait until enough players have rage-dropped slicing before they re-adjust it. Of course, they will also probably do it with as little fanfare as possible. I will be around to reap the profits.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Oneirophrenia

[L-RANDLE]

You claimed it took two days or less to get to 50. You're not 50. Stop trying to insinuate you are without lying. =/

 

Here's the quote:

 

 

Also:

 

 

 

Re-read my post. Perhaps I could have been more descriptive.

 

They removed the high yielding nodes from Tattoine and Illu. This inherently counters the argument presented that we can still make comparable profits by searching for lockboxes. And again, I'll point out that it's much more lucrative to do space missions for the time required. Hence, the 'gathering' aspect of the profession also got nerfed.

 

And if you don't believe it, go check it out yourself. Oh wait...if you're not 50 or a slicer you won't be able to check out the latter, and will get killed at the former.

 

Enjoy!

 

From a lvl 27 Bichem/BioAn who solos a lot: e.g. "casual" and does not feel slighted I chose them (I want to sell my implants **mn it):

 

Pansophist, you make excellent points, but I want to take it a few steps further.

What people are really losing sight of is that this response has nothing to do with catering to one "sect" or another. It is not a fight between casual v. hardcore, slicer v. farmer, or any one else.

 

What it is really about is real world profits (I'll explain more on this in a moment).

 

Pansophist is right, a cap was required. The nerf effectively was a cap. It has now limited everyone to becoming farmers (material or money; your choice), and unless you are high level, you can't farm effectively on higher level planets (Farming on Alderaan for me at lvl 27 is not feasible). So imo that is somewhat of a soft cap.

 

For the peeps saying "wait till you get to level 50 before you complain" YOU have the "farming advantage" right now. It also has now made alts purely for role/questing/guild balance and not cash cows, but therein lies the rub. Lvl 50 players repair bills are so costly, that their farming gains could be muted to almost non-existant and alts are still just for using in specific instances. It is a problem for the higher levels (and it needs to be addressed: maybe a repair crafter? I would do that. Repair high level equipment and they give me money instead of the money sink that vendors are).

 

For the non-slicers who did complain, well, sucks that we didn't pick slicing, but keep in mind the slicers invested time and resources for slicing and now need to respec/start over to remain viable, or live with the decreased profits. That sucks for them. Now my (and your) potential crafting profits are decreased. See why everyone poo-poo complainers regardless of the subject?!!!!

 

 

Now back to the real world profits issue. The nerf was probably a ploy by BW to "SLOW THE GAME DOWN" people..... I am not a hardcore MMO guy, but I am a hardcore gamer/RPG player and the one thing we all have in common is that we become INCREDIBLY addicted to getting the "best stuff" the game has to offer, and will not stop until we have it all. The nerf has now lengthened the amount of time it will take to get stuff, which means more subscription time, which means more REAL money for BW, EA, etc, if you have a problem with that, then by all means quit playing after the first 30. Also for the potential quitters (tounge & cheek ), you are probably a smaller minority than the "whiners" who called out for the nerf, so BioWare probably is not overly concerned about losing a very, very minut amount of people.

 

 

What happens most of the time is we accumulate so many credits (through investest real time gameplay) that being "poor" now becomes trivial. I don't know if these MMO's are the same way, but if it is, its only a matter of time before all lvl 50 are able to do what they want and not care about credits.

 

Businesses (real or virtual ones) operate to make money, so if it is too easy to accumulate things in a subscription based game, then your subscriber based falls more rapidly than you would like it to. A lot of peeps have said slicing should have been addressed pre-launch since they (BW) knew it was an issue. Do I dare say the nerf was planned? All signs point to them using it to initially influx credits in to the game (and that is why they probably are not responding to anyone on this issue). Once it was seen to be abusive or achieving the influx goal, it got nerfed.

 

 

Overall the nerf was somewhat of a commie thing to do, but everyone needs to realize in any game like this one (where players control 10% or less of the actual content) they function somewhat as dictators. If everyone just busts out their hammer & sickle, and get to work, you'll be fine....LOL.... Just some conjecture to try to lighten up the mood from a MMO noob... Keep playing all!!!

[Darksx]

I honestly do not understand all the whineing in this thead, and let me tell you why:

 

You are whining over a gathering skill. A gathering skill where you do not gathere, you just lamely send your companoins away and expect to get a fat paycheck.

 

..yes?

 

that is like saying that Archeaology should give more mats in return per mission than you can possible farm in that same amount of time.

 

and that is just stupid and lame.

 

If you do not want to use your GATHERING skill to GATHER, then do not expect it to give a huge profit, or be very efficient.

 

Try and put things into perspective.

 

And yes, if you level crafting while leveling you will run out of money, but that is because you buy all the patterns at once, and that has nothing to do with slicing or the cost of crafting trainers.

 

 

Oh, you’re brilliant, as in brilliantly stupid. And let me tell you why.

 

First off, each and every profession sends their companions off to gather or do something that nets you a return of some kind. Ours nets credits, while yours nets you either cloth, or metals or whatever it might be.

 

So please explain to me how our getting credits back is any different from someone who gets items back and sells those items? You have to work a little harder by selling them, but they do sell and quiet well from what I have been seeing. So your brilliant comments are nullified. Because your point here is off the mark by 100 fold.

[smulx]

The way BW has handled this whole thing is giving me serious doubts about whether I want to continue playing. Forget about whether Slicing was OP or not, my biggest problem is that they destroyed a skill that I'd put time in to levelling. They've rendered that part of the game totally useless just because some people were complaining. Worse still, they haven't even responded to our concerns about the issue. They had time time to close the thread and start a new one, but wont even share their thoughts or give any input, they're just going to ignore us?

[Thanatosx]

I honestly do not understand all the whineing in this thead, and let me tell you why:

 

I agree with you in that you definitely lack an understanding of what's going on in this thread.

 

You are whining over a gathering skill. A gathering skill where you do not gathere, you just lamely send your companoins away and expect to get a fat paycheck.

 

The game advertises sending companions out to gather. Check their trailers and web pages, so yes, slicers do in fact gather. Just like other gathering professions who can send their companions out to gather.

 

..yes?

 

No.

 

that is like saying that Archeaology should give more mats in return per mission than you can possible farm in that same amount of time.

 

and that is just stupid and lame.

 

Actually it isn't the same and quite a few people have hard data which shows it. If it was, I'd probably agree with you.

 

If you do not want to use your GATHERING skill to GATHER, then do not expect it to give a huge profit, or be very efficient.

 

People are using their gathering skill to gather. And while receiving a huge profit is fun, that really isn't what most slicers are complaining about.

 

Try and put things into perspective.

 

Yes, you desperately need to do that.

 

And yes, if you level crafting while leveling you will run out of money, but that is because you buy all the patterns at once, and that has nothing to do with slicing or the cost of crafting trainers.

 

That's not universally true and more than a few crafters have posted saying they have no money problems. There are some that do though, I suspect it varies by server economy. But I do agree here, you need to be smart about your crafting or you will be broke trying to level it while you level.

 

That IS typically what's expected of you in your average MMO, but SWTOR proclaimed to the high heavens it wasn't going to be like a TYPICAL MMO with regards to crafting....except that is what they seem to be making it.

[Lamentari]

I will resolve this conflict right now

 

Pre "Nerf" = QQ

Post "Nerf" = QQ

 

Over all = QQ

 

What players need to understand is that BW ran the numbers too and they deemed that the slicing skill was too high what most consider nerf I consider a fix that should have been done prior to launch to avoid this headache

[Eldyraen]

Slicing is a gathering skill--the usefulness is actually playing the game and doing some of the work yourself. Unfortunately people can't understand that and don't know the difference between gathering and mission crew skills. One is easy mode where you get profits for nothing and the other you have to help out for best profits.

 

People just want to get things for nothing nowadays. Slicing is about gathering and missions for best results. It's called gathering for a reason.

[Satene]

A gathering skill is a gathering skill is a gathering skill. Lol. Good luck and fair...space? my friend.

 

You are correct. Slicing is obviously a gathering skill. As I quest thru the world I gather (scavenge) material and I gather (slice) credits.

[UndeadKnight]

What if they kept the money you get from cases the same but had a chance to get more of them per mission?

[DarthSublimitas]

After reading through some of this I know understand why my sale income from the GTN has dropped substantially. I used to make a reasonable profit by selling purple Hilts and Crystals and now I haven't sold a thing since the patch

 

Ah... now they finally understand....

[Dorkfrey]

Ah... now they finally understand....

 

Since Slicers, have no money any more, they aren't buying things, so the next person has no money to buy things they want, so that in turn they can't burn credits on shinies, which means the person after has no credits, since he hasn't sold jack, which leads to you - who still hasn't sold his effing crystals, even though they might be "cheap".

 

My Artificer, makes WAY more credits than my Slicer does, but in all of this - EVERYONE has suffered, bar the few who've got well ahead, and been able to capitalise on the instability of it all.

 

I too, probably could have, but to be frank, I don't want this turning into another Grindfest of AH camping and business strategems. I was promised a game. Not a ***-ing grindfest.

[Satene]

Just for fun I thought I would ask the Bioware provided Codex for what slicing is and supports.

 

"Slicing is not a skill required for crafting. Slicing is the art of accessing secure computer systems and lockboxes to acquire valuable items, credits and rare tech schematics.

 

(snip)

 

Recommended Crafting Skills: ALL (mission discoveries), Cybertech (for tech schematics)"

 

1. The above

2. The obvious fact that you GATHER credits from nodes in the world

3. You can have only 1 crafting skill of the 3 skill slots and many crafters HAVE slicing.

 

 

I conclude, based on the evidence that slicing is a GATHERING skill.

[Lamentari]

Yeah the inflation goes down so the items on GTN listed at crazy high costs don't sell.

 

The complaining isn't about game cost being high its about people wanting a high level of disposable income. BW ran the numbers it was discussed in Beta this is nothing new. Players wanted inflation so that they would be able to obtain the high level cost items with ease.

 

I went to the GTN and the same items from the other week were now 1/10th the cost to me thats a more reasonable cost for players that actually have a hard time making cash.

[Dorkfrey]

I conclude, based on the evidence that slicing is a GATHERING skill.

 

And Gathering Skills have what in common?

 

Less earning potential than Craft Skills, but will *always* make cash from the Get Go.

 

Oh, damn, it failed there. I was trying so hard as well too.

[DarthSublimitas]

Just for fun I thought I would ask the Bioware provided Codex for what slicing is and supports.

 

"Slicing is not a skill required for crafting. Slicing is the art of accessing secure computer systems and lockboxes to acquire valuable items, credits and rare tech schematics.

 

(snip)

 

Recommended Crafting Skills: ALL (mission discoveries), Cybertech (for tech schematics)"

 

1. The above

2. The obvious fact that you GATHER credits from nodes in the world

3. You can have only 1 crafting skill of the 3 skill slots and many crafters HAVE slicing.

 

 

I conclude, based on the evidence that slicing is a GATHERING skill.

 

Well duh yes, you GATHER the credits. Did others on the board ever doubt that?? It's what slicers do - slice into safes and get money and stuff. I don't do missions because it's a waste of time and money. Put 300c in for a mission and get back 50c - hmmm... geee... something's a bit off here I believe my dear Watson...

[Zoldor]

And Gathering Skills have what in common?

 

Less earning potential than Craft Skills, but will *always* make cash from the Get Go.

 

Oh, damn, it failed there. I was trying so hard as well too.

 

Lies, I make a fortune in WoW using only gathering professions. Crafting professions rarely make a profit, its nothing to huge gain most of the time. Feast or Famine. Gathering controls the market and makes the most money without a doubt. Money to time ratio is higher with gathering, this doesn't mean time it took to craft an item but time it to to get materials to craft said item, while gathering is time spent gathering. Gathering will be and always has been the controller of money in the market and the one who decides what is profitable.

 

Level cap would have fixed all the QQ about slicing, but that would have been too easy. Letting me harvest from level 10 in any profession is generally foolish. Level 12 if I want a ship and s second slave, I mean companion.

[DarthSublimitas]

Lies, I make a fortune in WoW using only gathering professions. Crafting professions rarely make a profit, its nothing to huge gain most of the time. Feast or Famine. Gathering controls the market and makes the most money without a doubt. Money to time ratio is higher with gathering, this doesn't mean time it took to craft an item but time it to to get materials to craft said item, while gathering is time spent gathering. Gathering will be and always has been the controller of money in the market and the one who decides what is profitable.

 

Level cap would have fixed all the QQ about slicing, but that would have been too easy. Letting me harvest from level 10 in any profession is generally foolish. Level 12 if I want a ship and s second slave, I mean companion.

 

You were right the first time - slave lmao! And yes, only a fool believes that their finished product is the "big money-maker." If that were the case, why do we kill ourselves over the mats?? I can't even fathom how many 10's of thousands of gold I've spent on mats lvling up my chanting and tailoring. And I'm so sure there are others who even spent more. I can guarantee you, I can stack mats on the AH, over inflate them and peeps WILL buy them because they have no other choice. Most upper lvls become lazy and don't want to farm. Buy out all the mats on AH for a particular craft, relist at x3 - x5 the price and you get a good profit. This is basic MMO economics 101. We all know this, we've all done this.

[Zoldor]

And Gathering Skills have what in common?

 

Less earning potential than Craft Skills, but will *always* make cash from the Get Go.

 

Oh, damn, it failed there. I was trying so hard as well too.

 

Lies, I make a fortune in WoW using only gathering professions. Crafting professions rarely make a profit, its nothing to huge gain most of the time. Feast or Famine. Gathering controls the market and makes the most money without a doubt. Money to time ratio is higher with gathering, this doesn't mean time it took to craft an item but time it to to get materials to craft said item, while gathering is time spent gathering. Gathering will be and always has been the controller of money in the market and the one who decides what is profitable.

 

Level cap would have fixed all the QQ about slicing, but that would have been too easy. Letting me harvest from level 10 in any profession is generally foolish. Level 12 if I want a ship and s second slave, I mean companion.

[Dorkfrey]

Lies, I make a fortune in WoW using only gathering professions. Crafting professions rarely make a profit, its nothing to huge gain most of the time. Feast or Famine. Gathering controls the market and makes the most money without a doubt. Money to time ratio is higher with gathering, this doesn't mean time it took to craft an item but time it to to get materials to craft said item, while gathering is time spent gathering. Gathering will be and always has been the controller of money in the market and the one who decides what is profitable.

 

Level cap would have fixed all the QQ about slicing, but that would have been too easy. Letting me harvest from level 10 in any profession is generally foolish. Level 12 if I want a ship and s second slave, I mean companion.

 

Not really, you'd be one of the poor sob's I'd be paying part of the 4000g I spent daily on miners/harvesters to get stuff for me, that I'd turn into a 6000g a profit daily.

 

That is how crafting works.

 

You sell to me for say 10000c in SWTOR a stack, and I'll make 12000c a stack.

 

You'll be farming, I'll be selling.

 

That's how crafting works Sunshine. I've been there, done it, got the effing tweed and smoking jacket and retired.

 

Crafting doesn't lose money from buying from you. Rest assured of that.

 

We appreciate your hard graft immensely, and pay you for it. Don't for a second think we don't make more money than you. I've been there, done it and retired. Hence why I STOPPED grinding in WoW.

 

With no one buying however, because the market has stalled, fscks us all. (That's filechecks for all of you who know not Unix).

 

By the time I quit WoW, having too much of the "grind" I had fifteen people who would sell to me on a regular basis, I'd then turn that into something else that I'd sell for a PROFIT, and sell to regular buyers to stock their clan budgets, because I was able to provide on that kind of scale.

 

I really got tired of having a second damn job. Hence this - but no... Bioware wants us grinding and wants to invite Gold Sellers in. G-EFFING-G.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Dorkfrey

[DarthSublimitas]

Not really, you'd be one of the poor sob's I'd be paying part of the 4000g I spent daily on miners/harvesters to get stuff for me, that I'd turn into a 6000g a profit daily.

 

That is how crafting works.

 

You sell to me for say 10000c in SWTOR a stack, and I'll make 12000c a stack.

 

You'll be farming, I'll be selling.

 

That's how crafting works Sunshine. I've been there, done it, got the effing tweed and smoking jacket and retired.

 

Crafting doesn't lose money from buying from you. Rest assured of that.

 

We appreciate your hard graft immensely, and pay you for it. Don't for a second think we don't make more money than you. I've been there, done it and retired. Hence why I STOPPED grinding in WoW.

 

With no one buying however, because the market has stalled, fscks us all. (That's filechecks for all of you who know not Unix).

 

hmmm... gee... Mr. Forbes, let's not forget that YOU'RE solely dependant on a SPECIALIZED market. Whereas the gatherers are not. I can gather herbs (for scripters and alchemy) and sell them for a good profit ALL THE TIME. Profit will always be coming in no matter what. YOU on the other hand, MUST find the correct person who can A) use your crafted item; B)actually NEED your crafted item; C) Hope to god when the next patch comes out, your little trinket you created isn't obsolete due to new items, levels, etc..., being introduced into the game. As for us, there will ALWAYS be chanters and scripters that need to lvl their profession that will ALWAYS NEED our mats. So stick that in your pipe and smoke that rofl

 

Thought I should remind you on that wee tiny factoid

Edited December 30, 2011 by DarthSublimitas

[Zoldor]

You push a button and dude fetches every 20 to 30 min I'm missing how this is a time sink and not just passing by your computer screen. I too can now gather and stand in front of the AH and look at my bank account (in game lol).

 

I don't just gather, I gather to gain money to gain control of the market. Which is better controlled by dealing in gathering. For you to make my equal profit everything you buy from me must yield double gain everytime. I sold it to you for 10k you sold it for 12k, my profit 10k - time/cost, yours 2k from a 10k cost, I bet I made more than a 2k profit there. This isn't hard, crafting makes less in the long run and relies on the prices created by gathering. You might have gathering slaves who sell you your stuff, I'm the guy buying the entire market out and repricing it. enjoy your slice of the pie while I choose between pies to eat. It is like you are Magneto and I'm say Galactus or you are Optimus Prime and I'm Unicron.

 

Wait until crafting requires raid style mats to make anything profitable, that's when crafting gets real fun.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Zoldor