Indene (INDY Heavy Industries) Kettemoor/Ahazi and Radiant. Member/Officer of BEAST the cross galaxy CH guild. Now playing (Indene) on Krath

Indene (INDY Heavy Industries) on Radiant. Main home was kettemoor/ahazi but with the BEAST CH Guild based out of Radiant I ended up playing a lot there too. Reached MCH on both before the CU. Never really got over the loss of my pets with the NGE but kept plugging away at mining till the end.

How many of the GSA went to Juyo server? Say hi to them from Indene of Riverbend.

You I remember. Because of your business name and its quote "We Dig so you don't have to" I went by the name Indene. Owner of INDY Heavy Industries. When the universe ended I and my sisters managed to open a wormhole in time. The ships did not survive but we did. Barely. I have a scar across my right eye to remind me. Here in SWTOR I am Indene on the Krath server. A dealer in rare antiquities .

Indene Yelatch from Kettemoor/Ahazi here.

At least you HAVE an MMO to go back too. I came from SWG.

Well well well. The human knows my name. Now what was it Rumpelstiltskin did when that happened? Credits are but the means to improve the efficiency of barter. I have all this aluminum. Anyone want to make a pistol out of it for me? Nah. More efficient to trade it for credits so I can give you some credits for pistols. (Assumes you craft pistols) Ok. Can I have all your souls now? Well go figure. The King of lies should have a fine way of twisting words. Or you need to lower your prices. After all your stuff cost could be time only. Go out and gather. Nice. A direct ad hominium attack. not veiled or anything. I'm not really bad. I'm just written this way. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Amusing story for the rest of you who have bothered to read our discussion. Years ago when I decided to get into my first MMO I went looking for a name. I had decided on the name SA-10 from a science fiction story about a robot who came to earth and became the mythological source (in the story) for Satan. Well EQ did not allow a name with - or numbers in it so I modified my name to Satene. Have used it in several MMOs since. With storylines to explain her presence in places like SWG and SWTOR.

So many logical fallacies. So little time. Perhaps a remedial course in debate? Since I seem to be in so many of them I must have said something that really bothers him. Such power. Hmmmm.... I'm feeling the dark side calling... Must resist..... So hard........

Why yes. I do appear to be. It's that darn light side star thing. Though it is true it took many days of lively discussion with a co-worker for him to get me to see that Corporations NEVER pay tax, I still think you should try. If not for me then for all those who CAN see your *wisdom*. More accurately I make the profit I am ok with. After all I was not forced and was not someones slave (special case of force). You (or crafter A) sells his/her product at a profit that he chooses to be ok with. The final customer helps all of us choose that profit. Probably Better go with the long version. "for they know not what the ECONOMY MASTERS..." didn't seem to complete the sentence. Oh and if credits are dear then their Demand has gone up. Thus the items that would be purchased with them are now in less demand and so the customer will give up fewer credits to the crafter who will have fewer credits and they will want to hold on to those. Thus they will have fewer credits for the gatherer. Supply/Demand. Affects everything. Including credits when they are on one side of the equation. I can. This whole thread is about why they seem short. My buyers are still buying. Had to raise my prices last night to slow down their enthusiasm looks like argument to ridicule. You've used it a lot in your posts. Yes. You used it again. At least 3 times along with a few other logic fallacies.

I am VERY well aware of that problem. One of the many reasons I ONLY gather in WoW and Rift etc. Vendors (including the nasty specialty vendors that don't accept cash) sell better stuff. The last MMO I was in that did not have that problem is listed in my SIG below. The law of Supply/Demand works fine though. No demand for crafted stuff that is lower quality then vendor bought. Crafters find a new line of work. I did.

I'm willing to bet I see where it is going and not where you think. First there is NO starter motor. Economy is not a car. Second there is no minimum wage. There is no government force here telling you how much to pay the gatherers. There is a force (from the gods actually) that set the minimum as the price vendors will pay for the material I gather. The guys who have cash can buy just fine. If they have no desire to buy YOUR stuff that is not their fault. It might be the fault of the gods of this world but don't blame the person you want to buy your stuff. Lower your price. Or stop bothering to make something for which the gods have decreed no one will demand. Nothing in your comments provides any real evidence that BIOWARE screwed anything up. I am a slicer btw. My level must not be high enough to notice the effects. Oh and on my server (this could be an important detail) someone is STILL buying my stuff.

No need. I do not have to "think" I'm making a profit. I Know I am. Math is not an illusion. Oh and my name is Satene. You might. You might not. If I wanted to I could craft instead. And you were obviously paying better then the other people they COULD have sold to since they were not your slaves. Thus they did in fact "win". So did you because you got YOUR price. Time and Time again. You clearly paid what it was worth. They were not slaves and neither were you. The value of their time is set by THEM not you. The value of YOUR time is set by you. Perhaps you should invest in more learning yourself.

It WILL rebalance. The laws of supply/demand apply to EVERYTHING. Even things in MMO Land. You even described exactly what would happen so you obviously know the mechanics of the system. If the crafter can't sell then he won't buy from the gatherer (me) I will lower my prices until buyers show up or I hit the vendor trash prices and then I either stop bothering to gather or just sell the resources as vendor trash. The vendor trash price sets a minimum price for any item. The vendors become the lowest "demand" that will absorb ANY supply. Remove their willingness to buy resources and the prices would go lower still. And fewer people would bother to harvest and the supply would go down. If no one wants the material then the lowest re-balance for that material will have occurred. 0/0 the only equation I know of that can survive divide by 0.

Though your statement is exactly correct it might be mis understood (as it often is in RL). That buyer turns it into something and then MUST sell it for more money then he spent (to me) or as you said he will be bankrupt in short order. He doesn't necessarily make more PROFIT than I do but he MUST sell it for more than the money he sent to me. material 10 credits crafter makes vest. Sells for 11 credits. Profit 1 credit. I bought the material for 8 credits My profit 2 credits The gatherer sold the material to me for 8 credits His profit 8 credits. In each transaction MORE money changed hands but the profit was LESS. (note Profit. Not Profit/time)

Depending on what you call "rich" I am not. However your point is EXACTLY what I do. I GATHER credits from lockboxes and quests. Then sometimes send out my slave robot or my tank if I don't need him covering my back. When in the mood I will even track the lockbox credits and send out the slaves up to the limit of the credits sliced.

Somebody's buying all our stuff. Why would slicers buy it if they don't also have a craft?

Then you aren't doing it right. I make FAR more from scavenging than I ever could from slicing. (so far. I'm only 20 so who knows what bank vault I might get to slice in the future )

Those aren't idiots. Those are sheep begging to be fleeced. Sometimes I would even put them on the AH rather than doing the really quick vendor sell for profit.

And I'm the girl who is quite happy to let you buy all my stuff at the price I wanted. I then notice the stuff is selling faster than I can gather it so I raise my price a bit to balance. You are welcome and encouraged to buy all that stuff including mine and we do it again till the unavoidable (and governments have been trying for a long time to avoid) power of the market finds it's natural balance. thus all 3 of us, the crafter, the broker (you), and the gatherer (me and others) all profit. Unless the final customer no longer has enough money to buy the crafted items. But wait. The market will easily re-balance for that too. Money is just another item in the supply/demand equation.

Missions DO get you one VERY useful thing. Skillup points sometimes 2 at a mission. So here I am in hostile territory and there is this lockbox. It takes skill 90 to open. I have skill 87. Grrrr. The nearest lockboxes I can slice for skill points are 2 planets away. (Ignoring the instant travel crystal ball ) Off goes my trusty robot (the ship can take care of itself for a while, I hope) and 2 missions 10 min and a few (~1000) credits later I can hack this lockbox. The box only has ~400 credits in it but the next one will have more. This actually happened to me in beta which is how I stumbled across missions to begin with

Just for fun I thought I would ask the Bioware provided Codex for what slicing is and supports. "Slicing is not a skill required for crafting. Slicing is the art of accessing secure computer systems and lockboxes to acquire valuable items, credits and rare tech schematics. (snip) Recommended Crafting Skills: ALL (mission discoveries), Cybertech (for tech schematics)" 1. The above 2. The obvious fact that you GATHER credits from nodes in the world 3. You can have only 1 crafting skill of the 3 skill slots and many crafters HAVE slicing. I conclude, based on the evidence that slicing is a GATHERING skill.

You are correct. Slicing is obviously a gathering skill. As I quest thru the world I gather (scavenge) material and I gather (slice) credits.

Yep. STO Lifer here too

I'm ok with that. More nodes for me

But if the value of each credit will constantly shift And the value of each unit of desh will constantly shift Where is the problem of a "fixed" income. If anything the scavenging is broken cause it yields a fairly constant number of units of material. But when converted to shifting credits it probably does shift more than the slicing credit yield ( 150-300 in my example).