reppaz Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) So you buffed pyro damage in 5.3. but it dosnt change anything for pvp. PT has worst defens in game, i see sorcs are complaning. But have you ever tried PT in pvp? If you fight against a good team you going to die 10-15 times, PT has no "oh **** button" while mercs has 3 and they are 30 m range class. PT has been **** for pvp for 8 months, how long will it take for them to fix the class. PT is totally broken and has been to long. Look at mercs been fotm for 8 months and they still didnt nerfed there 3 " oh **** buttons" that heals to full. HOW HARD CAN IT BE TO GIVE 1 OF THEM TO PT, you need 2 years?????????????????????? How many PT's you se in WZ this Days= 0 and why, beacuse they are ****. Stop complaning about sorcs, sure Lightning needs burst buffs but defensive are fine if you learn how to kite. NO RANGE CLASS you be able to face tank melee. Thats the biggest problem i see by fotm rerollers, they dont now how to position as a range class. BUFF PT NOW! Edited July 12, 2017 by reppaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omaan Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 So you buffed pyro damage in 5.3. but it dosnt change anything for pvp. PT has worst defens in game, i see sorcs are complaning. But have you ever tried PT in pvp? If you fight against a good team you going to die 10-15 times, PT has no "oh **** button" while mercs has 3 and they are 30 m range class. PT has been **** for pvp for 8 months, how long will it take for them to fix the class. PT is totally broken and has been to long. Look at mercs been fotm for 8 months and they still didnt nerfed there 3 " oh **** buttons" that heals to full. HOW HARD CAN IT BE TO GIVE 1 OF THEM TO PT, you need 2 years?????????????????????? How many PT's you se in WZ this Days= 0 and why, beacuse they are ****. Stop complaning about sorcs, sure Lightning needs burst buffs but defensive are fine if you learn how to kite. NO RANGE CLASS you be able to face tank melee. Thats the biggest problem i see by fotm rerollers, they dont now how to position as a range class. BUFF PT NOW! Totally agree, i see lighting sorcs in r1-3 dps ranks on warzones but pt is just a joke: dying instantly, very low defenses. Even Though non-dot pt has good dps it makes no sense when it dies so fast. Iam tired of playing sin and mara, i want to make a dps pt but men... they are dead. Can you please make a thread in general discussion? Devs dont read pvp forum actually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 I normally agree with icy, but I play a lightning sorc right now, and I can say with certainty after playing plasmatech vg for a LONG time that VG/ PT need far more help than sorc, and have needed it far longer. Sorc players have been underpowered for a whole half a year, plasmatech has been underpowered since its conception. VG/PT take priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coloneli Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Not saying you don't have a point but pts were op for 2 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frosttj Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 I'd be happier if they nerfed everyone's DCDs down to PT level. If you burst like PT/Merc, you die without guard / heals when tunneled. PTs are pretty abysmal without a tank and heals at the moment, as they should be. They still hit hard...they still hurt. All burst classes should honestly be this way. I'd rather them develop a meta that forces people to rely on a team rather than a hero damage farmer that gets multiple chances at being alive without a rounded team. If your a PT on a team with a solid tank and healer...you're going to put damage out. If your with multiple solid DPS that assist each other and work together...people explode. That's team play. If you want to just run around and try to blow up **** mindlessly, play PVE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) I normally agree with icy, but I play a lightning sorc right now, and I can say with certainty after playing plasmatech vg for a LONG time that VG/ PT need far more help than sorc, and have needed it far longer. Sorc players have been underpowered for a whole half a year, plasmatech has been underpowered since its conception. VG/PT take priority. They aren't that underpowered... I got my butt handed to me today by a few PTs because of the new nerfs we got... out of those PTs I would have only considered one on par with my skill lvl, the others weren't as good, but even though I kited hard and made them work for it.. the fight became inevitable.. I can kite all I want, and stun heal, but when you try to heal and your health hardly moves before the stun or cc wears off.. then it's only a matter of time before you're worn down and because we hit like a wet noodle we have no deterrent for staying on top of us.. remember we are ranged and PTs are melee, so once they get up in our faces we have to kite hard, but they can close that range fast and it is hard to impossible get off some of the higher dmg abilities before you have to kite again. Anyway, I'm not saying they don't need any help. I just didn't like someone attacking Sorcs who have the recorded lowest dps in the game we just got a nerfed in the stomach while PTs got a buff. At least they got something and not a nerf. If the OP hadn't said anything about Sorcs I wouldn't have posted at all Edited July 12, 2017 by Icykill_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaladan Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) mate i played my PT yesterday for 10 wz and in 10 wz i died no more than 5times in total. and i spammed my deadly onslaught everywhere, everytime. was so fun, PTs are not bad, you just need to accept to retreat with a good timing (or die if you don't wnat to lose time surviving) enjoy that's all. Edited July 12, 2017 by Thaladan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reppaz Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 Not saying you don't have a point but pts were op for 2 years You play merc? Yes PTs has been fotm like every other class. Every class has been fotm, but why those it takes 1 year to fix it. The problem is that devs dont now how to balance they dont listen to feedbacks at all. Before 5.0 hit. players said that mercs will be to powerfull with 3 "heal to full" buttons, but devs dont listen. And now its been 8-9 months and nothing has change. Players now how to balance better then devs. PT is not viable for pvp and i dont want to play PVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frosttj Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Players now how to balance better then devs. I bet all my credits you couldn't write a line of code, let alone design a significant aspect of an MMO and adjust values based on multiple aspects of the game to achieve a healthy balance. You sounds like a turd when you say stuff like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reppaz Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 mate i played my PT yesterday for 10 wz and in 10 wz i died no more than 5times in total. and i spammed my deadly onslaught everywhere, everytime. was so fun, PTs are not bad, you just need to accept to retreat with a good timing (or die if you don't wnat to lose time surviving) enjoy that's all. Of course you didnt die cuz you had 7 healers on your team. Spamming deadly onslaught dosnt help you survive. PT's needs "oh ***** button" Or take electronet away from mercs and give them to PT's, like they did with phase walk for sins. Mercs dont need electronet anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaladan Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) no,i noticed less healers tbh, in both side. actually our oh sh*** button is hydraulic and go to a heal node maybe not OP but quite more often available. PTs are better with this update, not because they are buffed a lot, but because of all other class change : less range spec less OP heal helps PT. i wait to see the efficiency of multiple PTs spamming DO (and carbonize as well). this new cooldown and damage buff changes lot of things. and tbh i will bet on a nerf about it before any new buff.. and i agree about enet, it must be a melee tool against a range, not the opposite... Edited July 12, 2017 by Thaladan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionflash Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 They need to fix bugged utilities and bugged leap & pull first, and then maybe we can actually see how to balance PT/VG properly. and btw, the VG/PT "oh **** button" is taking the 10 sec. 'Charge The Line' utilities and at the first sight of danger, or being focused you immediately charge the **** out of the line in the opposite direction and out of combat. Tactical retreat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glower Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 and btw, the VG/PT "oh **** button" is taking the 10 sec. 'Charge The Line' utilities and at the first sight of danger, or being focused you immediately charge the **** out of the line in the opposite direction and out of combat. Tactical retreat. Dat oh **** button we have. Best of the best! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionflash Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Dat oh **** button we have. Best of the best! It's the worst of all the classes, but it exists. I play my vanguard like a scout ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayOfTheWarriorx Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) So you buffed pyro damage in 5.3. but it dosnt change anything for pvp. PT has worst defens in game, i see sorcs are complaning. But have you ever tried PT in pvp? If you fight against a good team you going to die 10-15 times, PT has no "oh **** button" while mercs has 3 and they are 30 m range class. PT has been **** for pvp for 8 months, how long will it take for them to fix the class. PT is totally broken and has been to long. Look at mercs been fotm for 8 months and they still didnt nerfed there 3 " oh **** buttons" that heals to full. HOW HARD CAN IT BE TO GIVE 1 OF THEM TO PT, you need 2 years?????????????????????? How many PT's you se in WZ this Days= 0 and why, beacuse they are ****. Stop complaning about sorcs, sure Lightning needs burst buffs but defensive are fine if you learn how to kite. NO RANGE CLASS you be able to face tank melee. Thats the biggest problem i see by fotm rerollers, they dont now how to position as a range class. BUFF PT NOW! First off, let me just start by saying, yeah, PTs need another DCD, no question about it. That DCD should be akin to other melee DCDs however. No DPS spec should have DCDs like mercs do, not mercs, not PTs not any DPS spec in the game. No DPS spec should have an extra life either. Heals should have no part in it. Even still, PTs do have a DCD that heals them, and it's not the only heals they have either. When a spec has self heals that needs to be taken into account with regard to defensive cooldowns. The more healing you have as a DPS, the better your survival to a point. People make the argument against mercs that a ranged dps doesn't need as much in the DCD department because they can kite some of thier enemies which limits incoming damage from melee combatants. While technically PTs are defined as melee DPS now, that's not exactly the case, at least compared to other tradtional mDPS [Juggs, Marauders, Assassins]. PTs have more ranged options than quite frankly they should as a melee combatant. This matters when it comes to defensive considerations. With the DPS buff pyro has recieved is has joined AP in having rather good DPS, so I think we can agree the DPS issue is off the table. I suggest giving PTs another DCD along the lines of the effects that Saber ward grants to Juggs, Marauders, and Assassins. Energy sheild is a strong DCD, adding another DCD like Saberward would give them some very serious damage reduction in addition to the extra DR their heavy armor grants them. Considering thier passives in the defense department I think this would be sufficient. These passives being: Flame Suit - Reduces damage taken from all periodic effects by 15%. Insulating Mats - Increases elemental and internal damage reduction by 5% and reduces the cooldown of Sonic Missile by 10 seconds. Automated Defensives - While Kolto Overload is active, your damage reduction is increased by 30%. Additionally the active cooldown of Kolto Overload is reduced by 6 seconds when you are attacked. This effect cannot occur more than once per second. Close and Personal - Increases the duration of Energy Shield by 3 seconds. In addition, suffering direct damage from area attacks heals you for 2.5% of your total health. This effect cannot occur more than once every 3 seconds. Now they're self heals are better than all the other mDPS specs by a notable margin, Marauders having none at all baseline [Annihilation being the exception, but even thier self heals do not match PTs]. They can gain heals from Shield Cannon, Close and Personal, and kolto overload. The only mDPS spec that can match their self heals is Operative. Perhaps, if after the additional DCD is added, a "oh shyt" still seemed to be needed, than by all means add one. PT's don't need e-net, their CC kit is immensly strong as it is with utility options that can bring them on par with any class in the game. I actually feel PTs cc kit is too strong, but their lack of defensives mitigates that. Adding more DCDs should than put their CC kit under review imo. Once that's done, and their survival is improved and they are more on par with other mDPS specs, it's time to remove some of thier ranged capabilities. They have far too much ranged attack options for mDPS class. If you want to revise them back to their pre mdps incarnation than it's fine. Personally, they should have left them as the only "mid ranged" spec, it gave them a lot of character and uniqueness. PT ranged options include: [i'm not going to include their gap closer, that's hardly an 'attack', more like a mosquito bite] Thermal Detonator at 30' Grapple 30' Basic attack at 30' which is spammable which is a huge ranged advantage over every other melee class except Operative. mDPS should not have a spammable 30' ranged attack. Granted the damage is minor, but that it's spammable and costs no resources make it noteworthy for a melee spec. Operatives and PTs should not have it, considering that Marauders and Juggs have one or two ranged attacks at 10', and Assassins only one at 30' [which, honestly I don't think they should have as a melee dps] Utility options that improve their ranged capabilities include: Bracer Propellant - Increases the range of Flame Burst and Magnetic Blast by 2 meters and the radius of Flame Sweep by 1 meter [To be fair, this range increase is extremely minor and barely worth mentioning] Here's the big one which no mDPS should have the option for - Pressure Overrides - Explosive Fuel grants Pressure Overrides, allowing Flame Burst, Magnetic Blast, Searing Wave, Firestorm, Shatter Slug, Deadly Onslaught, Heat Blast, Energy Burst, Immolate, and Scorch to be used at 30 meters for 15 seconds. I'm sorry, but this is rediculous for a mDPS class. Even at 15 seconds. You can fit 9 attacks at 30' in that time range. Add to this that their Efficient Suit utility that adds 10' to their grapple range, bringing it to 40', that's insane ranged capabilities for a mDPS spec, insane. Given the ranged potential of this class, it should be considered in regard to their defensive improvements. I personally feel that Pressure Overides should be removed entirely. Their group utility is quite strong as well, but shouldn't be considered in reference to defensive improvements. I love PTs, I think they are an awesome class, but they have too much range for a mDPS. PT performance in PVP, at least with regard to AP which now Pyro with be in league with DPS wise, is quite good in the hands of a player who knows his class DPS wise. Seeing a PT come in first place in DPS is not uncommon. I'm all for giving them appropriate defensive improvement, but merc DCDs are not appropriate for any DPS spec. Most mDPS suffer in PVP when they do not have a healer in their group and while a PT might fair worse, even Juggs and Marauders will die quite a bit without a healer. A Marauder [Fury or Carnage] often doesn't last long without a healer in PVP. Even Assassins, but at least they have the option to use Force Cloak and h2f while their enemy remains in combat and thus the assassin can reset the fight for himself, and that perma stealth is and of itself the best DCD in the game [although it's garbage for DPS]. You are also forgetting that PTs were Op not so long ago, not that it makes it okay to leave them with subpar defenses. Also, they a skank tank remains not at all easy to kill. That said, they're no Lighting Sorcs. Edited July 12, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexsamma Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 People arguing that PT is in worse shape than sorc are insane, sorcs are (generally) better than pt in an all dps matchup where they can kite and off heal, but once you introduce a healer or a healer/tank pt is definitely better - you can simply ride the sorc to shut it's damage down while also killing it. Pt is the definition of a glass cannon, and it's a pretty damn huge cannon if we're being honest; the issue is that a merc/mara/sniper isn't far behind offensively and all three have superior defenses which allow them (and their team) to play more aggressively. PT was the sleeper OP class at launch, and it was definitely the go to broken class (alongside smash) in ranked 8's pre 2.0; from 2.0 - 2.4 most people shelved their pt for smash mara or leth. sniper but 2.4 brought lol AP (pure AP and skank AP) and in a later patch pyro got super buffed and was (once again) faceroll status.... not even going to talk about the 3.0 - 5.0 era were AP pt/shieldtech were literally the most broken/brain-dead specs in the game (though ap in solo ranked went from OK to "meh" as their ranged options/HO up time was nerfed). Former OP status shouldn't see a class/spec regulated to the current state of PT, but I think it's very important to take into account because 5.0 AP's damage is very strong and the class is still easy mode (not as brain-dead as arsenal, but close); with even small changes to PT's defenses (or enough nerfs to other class's defenses) PT will quickly become the faceroll FOTM class that it has been for the majority of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellow_ Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) The buff PTs really need is a nerf to the defensives of overperforming classes. The buff they also need but less so is for kolto to heal very fast, such that having guard is not a requirement to survive the duration of the regen against a handful of enemies. It doesn't need to heal you to full like the stupid merc kolto, it just needs to keep you alive for the duration. This makes PTs less horrid when tanks aren't around to guard them without breaking them in group ranked, like a lot of other suggestions to the PT survivability problem very well might. Edited July 12, 2017 by yellow_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Not saying you don't have a point but pts were op for 2 years correction, a single spec was op. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Of course you didnt die cuz you had 7 healers on your team. Spamming deadly onslaught dosnt help you survive. PT's needs "oh ***** button" Or take electronet away from mercs and give them to PT's, like they did with phase walk for sins. Mercs dont need electronet anymore Thats actually a brilliant idea. Enet should go to pts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexsamma Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Thats actually a brilliant idea. Enet should go to pts! Can we just straight up take net out of the game? Originally net was designed as a defensive tool to help mercs deal with melee, it quickly became an offensive tool. Net is an ability (in it's current iteration) that simply should not exist because it acts as CC but does not provide any resolve. Getting netted and then double hard stunned is literally cancer and should not be possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaladan Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) (...) i wait to see the efficiency of multiple PTs spamming DO (and carbonize as well). this new cooldown and damage buff changes lot of things. and tbh i will bet on a nerf about it before any new buff.. (..). ------------ -Adjusting Prototype Missile Silos and Genadiership cooldown/damage. ------------ bazinga told you..PT nerf they just don't know what they are doing it's pathetic, i had fun 1 day. yw biowore.. Edited July 12, 2017 by Thaladan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionflash Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 ------------ -Adjusting Prototype Missile Silos and Genadiership cooldown/damage. ------------ bazinga told you..PT nerf they just don't know what they are doing it's pathetic, i had fun 1 day. yw biowore.. anyone who tested DO/AB can tell you it is a huge waste of resources to spam it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaladan Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) clearly no in pvp with gyroscopic alignment, i clearly used DO a lot combined with carbonize and 75% snare shatter slug and it was really efficient with a good dps. it's not nerfed for AP for nothing. anyway it's over. 8 month to begin a change for fotm mercs and sorcheal but 1 day for a just good alternative for a weak class. Edited July 13, 2017 by Thaladan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionflash Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 That's a nice combo and all, but I don't think it's worth it to make a build around a gimmick. The one thing I learned using AB a lot recently; it's radius is small af. I can barely keep 3 enemies in it for the full duration. People pop their root breakers & sprints or dashes and suddenly everyone scatters. Pre-5.3 DO/AB was on a 30 sec. cooldown for the spec Post-5.3 DO/AB is on (at most) a 20 sec. cooldown for the spec + 61% dmg increase sounds like a buff to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaladan Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) the fun was here..i'll return to pyro with the new buff. yes i play pyro since 5.0 i am an anti fotm reroller..challenge is the best way to play. Edited July 13, 2017 by Thaladan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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