Sorc Heals 5.3 is terrible

[DenariusJay]

Some Sorc healers were terrible before that, but the class was such a big crutch no one noticed. Well, now you're noticing.

 

You can add me to that list. My sage healer is like an 8th alt I play from time to time to run lockout runs or pvp with, and I was amazed how someone like me, who barely plays Sage healing, could tank 3 people in pvp and pretty much solo heal an Op (assuming the group was decent and avoided damage). My operative healer, that I main, isn't even that strong, with better gear.

[ChiaraT]

I play a merc healer. The other healer in my regular HM/NiM 8m ops group is a sorcerer. We have always had comparable numbers, but tonight, she did 50-70% of my effective healing. That is an outrageous nerf, and does not appear to be viable for HM/NiM raiding.

[doggone]

I play a merc healer. The other healer in my regular HM/NiM 8m ops group is a sorcerer. We have always had comparable numbers, but tonight, she did 50-70% of my effective healing. That is an outrageous nerf, and does not appear to be viable for HM/NiM raiding.

 

Same thing for me tonight, I feel like I got nerfed like 1-2k effective hps, while the other healers are functioning normally.

[rylanadionysis]

I don't actually agree with your last point.

 

its fairly easy to play decently a sorc, but mastering one is just has hard as any class.

 

.

 

Nope.

 

Ive been an operative healer for going on three years now, since I joined this game.

 

I switched my sage to a healer for the lulz last patch to see what the fuss was about.

 

Oh my god easy mode, completely felt like a god compared to my maxed out operative, it was disgusting.

 

Didnt have to do anything but target myself or my guard and keep roaming mend and healing trance on full uptime, hit my proc heal when needed, make sure to always use rejuvenate etc etc.... and i was doing 1.5-2x the healing my operative does with quite literally one fifth the button pressing.

 

Not to mention on my operative I have to actually cycle targets to apply most of my healing power, OH and the fact my largest heal only does 1/4 of what the sages big burst heal can do, to match it I have to chain my longcast, my proc (with utility), and my instacrit all together, for what is a 2 button mash ignore LOS lolzfest for a sorc

 

Sage was and is still broken, until they change wandering/roaming mend being a brainless no need to target anything smartheal, it will always be OP.

 

 

 

Long story short... (numbers below quoted in matches I was the SOLO healer, they vary when there are multiple healers of course)

 

Operative 248 fully geared - 3 years experience, 5000-6000 HPS in a typical warzone, sometimes 8k, rarely higher, an absolute insane dance of button presses and careful balancing to maintain

 

Sage in 234/236 with zero experience in the heal spec (was always telekinetics before this), first warzone did 7100 HPS and I didnt even know about the CD reset on Healing trance in that match. I was merely button mashing what I read on a guide on how to play healsorc. Consistently does 6-8k HPS, and has been over 9k (lol meme), at least a dozen times over the last month. I have NEVER hit 9k on my operative, not even once, in a WZ.

 

Tell me again if the class was overperforming or not... absolutely laughable.

Edited July 14, 2017 by rylanadionysis

[HeBecTyJlKa]

I play a merc healer. The other healer in my regular HM/NiM 8m ops group is a sorcerer. We have always had comparable numbers, but tonight, she did 50-70% of my effective healing. That is an outrageous nerf, and does not appear to be viable for HM/NiM raiding.

 

Yeah, the Operative I heal our progression team with also told me that he feels the nerf as well, he feels the added pressure on his shoulders... Which shouldn't be the case, in my mind the Operatives are supposed to be sustain healers, they shouldn't be reactive but proactive - he shouldn't be stressed out by damage spikes that his co-healer cannot burst-heal... or at least not all of the time.

 

Imho, even if we say that we are still equally viable and I'm just a total noob that hasn't mastered the only spec and class he plays since 2012, we can all safely say that Sorc healing is not even fun in casual OPS anymore, and when you take the fun out of a game... Yeah...

Edited July 14, 2017 by HeBecTyJlKa

[realleaftea]

I personally never said that I can prove anything without StarParse - that would be a stupid claim since I don't have access to SWTOR's databases, where (I assume) they are getting their data from.

See. You first asked me why I came up with StarParse when you were referring to the HPS score... and later you used StarParse to support your claim and stated: "stats don't lie".

 

The truth however is: stats do lie!

 

I.e. the HPS score on parsely doesn't include damage absorption. I.e. you can't trust the operation leaderboard.

 

This of course doesn't mean that the recent nerf was perfectly balanced. Currently, I can't match the efficiency of my Commando healer either. But I still want BioWare to balance healers based on their overall efficiency, not just on the HPS score. And preferrably, I don't want to use Static Barrier on myself just to fake my HPS score (thanks to Corrupted Barrier).

 

And this is just on 8M, I don't even want to enter a 16M OP with the current awful state of AOE healing we have.

Well, that depends on many things. So I wouldn't use it an argument. If you have a 16M operation, you should have more healers as well. I.e. the number characters a healer is responsible for might not change that much. Of course, there might be other issues with proper positioning and/or overheal, but the Sorcerer AoE isn't what worries me most.

 

As a Commando healer, it seems chances are much higher that my kolto bomb won't hit everyone I'd like it to. So even if it has a lower CD, I still believe it isn't that effective. And the channeled kolto wave isn't my favorite either. So I still prefer Revivification, even if the heals are now like 900 HP instead of 1000 HP per tick.

 

Also, where did you read that BioWare included APS in their testing (Eric just mentions "HPS target"), as well as that Ixparse's page doesn't include APS in the Healing Ranking (might be a valid assumption, it does show "EHPS" if you hover your mouse, but I'd still like to see a confirmation)? Maybe this is where I am being wrong, as I don't see any proof for each one of these statements.

I assume the StarParse ranking doesn't include damage absorption because the HPS results match those on parsely and the latter clearly doesn't include it. But feel free to go to the 'log view' and show me how much a Static Barrier has absorbed.

 

In regard of BioWare (Eric & co):

I simply assume that there's at least a bit of sanity & dignity left. And that means I hope they balance classes on their true effectiveness, not just on the HPS socre. And if you keep in mind that they've nerfed Static Barrier as well, they at least seem to care about these values as well.

 

P.S. I also didn't say "Sorc heals should put out less healing than others considering how easy they are to play decently", I just quoted the guy who did, which I assume is what made you confuse me with him.

No, no. If you read my last reply carefully, I mentioned both your statement and the one you were responding to.

Edited July 14, 2017 by realleaftea

[Lorahlei]

For all of the blast of heat you are taking for this post, I would like to say one thing... YES Sorcerer and Sage Heals are Awesome. They are also the squishiest class out there. That said, Not many of us play Sorcs/Sages due to the lack of respect that healers get in PVP to begin with, so why the hell would they nerf the heals?

[wainot-keel]

Same thing for me tonight, I feel like I got nerfed like 1-2k effective hps, while the other healers are functioning normally.

 

Well, the other healers haven't had their nerfs yet. I'd be extremely surprised if they aren't getting nerfed in 5.4, maybe 5.5. Let's wait and see.

 

I haven't healed much with my sorc since the patch but the one thing is driving me nuts is the increased channeling times, specially on Innervate....arrgggh...

The higher cost is also noticeable so you have to more careful, which makes the use of Revivification, at least for me, even more scarce since it consumes the stacks I need for force management.

[MidichIorian]

lol. the vast majority of them don't have anything constructive to say. for 5 years, since launch, bioware kept sorcs a level above the other classes.

That is complete nonsense.

[Chelz]

I can deal with the major force regen issue now. I could also deal with them taking away our Aoe's, what I can't deal with, and what makes the class useless now in PvE, is the major nerf to our burst healing. We don't have HOT's. We Can't AoE. What would you like us to do now? You can't take away everything and expect us to be viable in even an SM raid. At this point a comp could heal better.

 

In full 248's I feel like I am healing naked. I have a Scoundrel/ Op healer in 224's that are better healers at this point. I am going to have to raid with them, which I think is what they wanted us to do.

Edited July 15, 2017 by Chelz

[ddttor]

Current healcheck in all operations in severely undertuned. Even nerfed sorcerer heals 120-130% more than needed to clear most of HM/NiMs.

 

I admit, I was kinda scared when I first heard that my sorc heal will be nerfed, even geared and learned how to play merc healer. But now, I've already tried DP/DF HM and TfB NiM and I don't feel that nerf.

Sorc is more than OK in PvE and in PvP there's still ridiculous mobility, teleport and bubble.

[TerraStomper]

What kinds of average incoming damage are you all seeing in HM and NiM? I ask because I'm not all that sure sorc's are still viable as healers in some of the HM and NiM fights.

 

In the case of my HM prog group, I'm seeing about 4,500 dps to each tank and about 2,600 dps to each other other member of the group, average (not counting HM EV or HM KP of course.) That is 24,600 damage per second coming in which both healers have to deal with. With two sorc healers in 5.3, there are times we cannot keep up with the incoming damage. And the now shallower heals mean it takes longer to top off the tank before the next damage spike hits.

 

Other than NiM DF, I haven't done other NiM since 5.3 landed. Nefra was still easy, but Draxus was a wipefest.

 

What I've noticed healing in HM with a sorc is that my overall HPS has dropped 1.5-2.8K depending on the fight. As far as AOE burst, I had been able to hold about 15.5Khps in 248 gear. Now it is about 12.7K. Single target HPS has dropped from 11.0Khps to 9.6Khps, the later numbers are similar to what I was doing back in January in mostly 230 gear.

 

In 248 gear, before 5.3, the last bosses were sometimes a struggle but mostly doable. Now, we're wiping a lot more often with two sorcs so I switched to my almost equally geared merc to help get through the tougher last boss fights. The merc is doing a bit over 16Khps burst AOE and 11.4Khps single target, making him the more viable healer at this point, at least for me.

 

What have your performance numbers been like?

[LordTurin]

What kinds of average incoming damage are you all seeing in HM and NiM? I ask because I'm not all that sure sorc's are still viable as healers in some of the HM and NiM fights.

 

In the case of my HM prog group, I'm seeing about 4,500 dps to each tank and about 2,600 dps to each other other member of the group, average (not counting HM EV or HM KP of course.) That is 24,600 damage per second coming in which both healers have to deal with. With two sorc healers in 5.3, there are times we cannot keep up with the incoming damage. And the now shallower heals mean it takes longer to top off the tank before the next damage spike hits.

 

Other than NiM DF, I haven't done other NiM since 5.3 landed. Nefra was still easy, but Draxus was a wipefest.

 

What I've noticed healing in HM with a sorc is that my overall HPS has dropped 1.5-2.8K depending on the fight. As far as AOE burst, I had been able to hold about 15.5Khps in 248 gear. Now it is about 12.7K. Single target HPS has dropped from 11.0Khps to 9.6Khps, the later numbers are similar to what I was doing back in January in mostly 230 gear.

 

In 248 gear, before 5.3, the last bosses were sometimes a struggle but mostly doable. Now, we're wiping a lot more often with two sorcs so I switched to my almost equally geared merc to help get through the tougher last boss fights. The merc is doing a bit over 16Khps burst AOE and 11.4Khps single target, making him the more viable healer at this point, at least for me.

 

What have your performance numbers been like?

 

That is an insane amount of damage your group is having coming in for HMs. You should not need to pump out 13k ehps on both heals to keep your group alive on anything except maybe Malaphar cause of stacks. If that is how much damage your group is taking, the problem is probably on the dtps side, not the heal side.

 

Went through my last parses in HMs, both DP and TOS, and at most for our clears, EHPS total was 17k total (for sword squadron and underlurker), and 18k ehps on Tyrans (new tank took over 6k when he should have taken 2/3 of that, most of the rest of DP was under 12k total).

[rylanadionysis]

So, funny story... took the sage healer out today for the first time since 5.3 dropped...

So here I was expecting to be instantly obliterated, useless, and cannon fodder.

 

Gear is mostly 240/242 with one piece 248 (121k bolstered health to get an idea of where the char is at)

 

Hypergate match against a fairly balanced other team (we lost at any rate, by just 30 or so points)

 

End up being top heals by a massive margin (2 healers on my team, the other was an operative, i did 3.5 million to his 1.4 million), no deaths, barely felt any pressure, took over a mil damage so I was definitely being hit.

 

Had to watch my force a little more, but that was literally it.

 

All you guys crying, were just crappy rerolls, leave the healing to those of us that actually know how to play our classes and have for ages.

 

That is all, you guys are just plain terribad. Shut up.

Edited July 24, 2017 by rylanadionysis

[sumquy]

What kinds of average incoming damage are you all seeing in HM and NiM? I ask because I'm not all that sure sorc's are still viable as healers in some of the HM and NiM fights.

 

In the case of my HM prog group, I'm seeing about 4,500 dps to each tank and about 2,600 dps to each other other member of the group, average (not counting HM EV or HM KP of course.) That is 24,600 damage per second coming in which both healers have to deal with. With two sorc healers in 5.3, there are times we cannot keep up with the incoming damage. And the now shallower heals mean it takes longer to top off the tank before the next damage spike hits.

 

Other than NiM DF, I haven't done other NiM since 5.3 landed. Nefra was still easy, but Draxus was a wipefest.

 

What I've noticed healing in HM with a sorc is that my overall HPS has dropped 1.5-2.8K depending on the fight. As far as AOE burst, I had been able to hold about 15.5Khps in 248 gear. Now it is about 12.7K. Single target HPS has dropped from 11.0Khps to 9.6Khps, the later numbers are similar to what I was doing back in January in mostly 230 gear.

 

In 248 gear, before 5.3, the last bosses were sometimes a struggle but mostly doable. Now, we're wiping a lot more often with two sorcs so I switched to my almost equally geared merc to help get through the tougher last boss fights. The merc is doing a bit over 16Khps burst AOE and 11.4Khps single target, making him the more viable healer at this point, at least for me.

 

What have your performance numbers been like?

 

the problem in your group doesn't have anything to do with heals. your dps are taking roughly double the damage that they should be. figure out why and your life will get a lot easier.

[Avashnea]

Well ofc nerfs come from pvp. Which pver will complain about their class being super good in ops and carrying them? Lol. And sorc heals should put out less healing than others considering how easy they are to play decently

 

PvPers are nothing but whiners in EVERY game

[Qunarin]

So, funny story... took the sage healer out today for the first time since 5.3 dropped...

So here I was expecting to be instantly obliterated, useless, and cannon fodder.

 

Gear is mostly 240/242 with one piece 248 (121k bolstered health to get an idea of where the char is at)

 

Hypergate match against a fairly balanced other team (we lost at any rate, by just 30 or so points)

 

End up being top heals by a massive margin (2 healers on my team, the other was an operative, i did 3.5 million to his 1.4 million), no deaths, barely felt any pressure, took over a mil damage so I was definitely being hit.

 

Had to watch my force a little more, but that was literally it.

 

All you guys crying, were just crappy rerolls, leave the healing to those of us that actually know how to play our classes and have for ages.

 

That is all, you guys are just plain terribad. Shut up.

 

That's PVP, this nerf was for PVP, I was complaining about how sorc is performing in PVE. The nerf was needed in PVP, but it seriously hit PVE.

[Thaladan]

That's PVP, this nerf was for PVP, I was complaining about how sorc is performing in PVE. The nerf was needed in PVP, but it seriously hit PVE.

 

wrong ! not a single nerf actually was in PvP perspective, all was regarding to dps/hps parse in pve so stop blaming PvP

Edited July 25, 2017 by Thaladan

[Lalainnia]

Sorc heals are fine still the only healer that doesn't fall apart when their resources get low. The force armor nerf was unnecessary in my eyes though it's a special ability not that's effectively able to increases a friendly targets max hp.

 

If the other healers are being adjusted I expect to see Mercs kolto missle most likely nerfed it's had nothing but buffs since 3.0 pretty much and hopefully they adjust some heat values for them. For operatives I can see them gaining some sort of interrupt immunity in the actual medicine tree on Kolto injection and possibly a slight nerf on Kolto waves in either it's crit chance or its actual healing.

 

All is well in Healer world nothing to worry about Dps and tanks need to pay more attention and should see less easy "That should have killed me moments" from players.

[FerkWork]

Edit: I changed my mind. Friend plays Sorc heals and thus undue the energy increase cost cause I know think it's dumb and it would make them feel better. Anyone who disagree has a pathetically small meme collection.

 

 

This Post is Brought to you by Friends of Sorc Foundation.

Edited August 2, 2017 by FerkWork

[Exocor]

We did Styrak NiM some days ago with double sage heal. The burn-phase at the end was tighter than before the nerf. However, noone important died. We were curious about the performance of the other healing classes and did that with a scoundrel heal yesterday. It was like a difference between night and day. The same guy, who formerly healed with a Sage was on a Scoundrel - he had around 8k ehps more than before.

 

What I am trying to point out: For different healing jobs different healers are better. Sage ist currently more a single target class. Taking two single target healers into one of the hardest aoe-healing challenges should cause some problems and so it does now. No reason, to be upset.

[Lupolus]

No, Sorcerer and Sage heals still is strong. A bit to strong, they could see another nerf.

 

We'll see what 5.4 will bring for Operatives and Scoundrels. They do fine, but are still a bit behind them in pure emergency heals. Operatives and Scoundrels also need to watch Tactical Advantage/Upper Hand. Its not that difficult, but you cannot spam.

Operatives and Scoundrels can roll a few meters forward (even twice) but then its on a cooldown. They have to stand still because almost everything has activation time. Sorcs/Sages are a lot more mobile.

 

Both Mercenary/Commando and Operatives/Scoundrel need to keep looking at energy/heat/ammo. Once things are really low (or to high depends) then you do close to no heals. Sorcerers and Sages don't have that issue, spam all day long no worries (with 1 exception)

[FerkWork]

No, Sorcerer and Sage heals still is strong. A bit to strong, they could see another nerf.

 

We'll see what 5.4 will bring for Operatives and Scoundrels. They do fine, but are still a bit behind them in pure emergency heals. Operatives and Scoundrels also need to watch Tactical Advantage/Upper Hand. Its not that difficult, but you cannot spam.

Operatives and Scoundrels can roll a few meters forward (even twice) but then its on a cooldown. They have to stand still because almost everything has activation time. Sorcs/Sages are a lot more mobile.

 

Both Mercenary/Commando and Operatives/Scoundrel need to keep looking at energy/heat/ammo. Once things are really low (or to high depends) then you do close to no heals. Sorcerers and Sages don't have that issue, spam all day long no worries (with 1 exception)

 

Tell me on the doll where the Sorc heals touched you. Sorry not sorry but Lol what, Operative energy management is trivial right now and even Merc managment is exaggerated. And Operative aren't meant to be reactive burst Healers. Plan proactively and Operatives are quite strong too strong and Merc is as well. All 3 were overperforming. And you can't spam Heals like you could before so I don't know what that rant was about. In any case Operative will receive a nerf as well.

Edited August 2, 2017 by FerkWork

[Equeliber]

No, Sorcerer and Sage heals still is strong. A bit to strong, they could see another nerf.

 

We'll see what 5.4 will bring for Operatives and Scoundrels. They do fine, but are still a bit behind them in pure emergency heals. Operatives and Scoundrels also need to watch Tactical Advantage/Upper Hand. Its not that difficult, but you cannot spam.

Operatives and Scoundrels can roll a few meters forward (even twice) but then its on a cooldown. They have to stand still because almost everything has activation time. Sorcs/Sages are a lot more mobile.

 

Both Mercenary/Commando and Operatives/Scoundrel need to keep looking at energy/heat/ammo. Once things are really low (or to high depends) then you do close to no heals. Sorcerers and Sages don't have that issue, spam all day long no worries (with 1 exception)

 

1) Scoundrels have very high and heavy sustain and AoE heals, that's what they are supposed to be best at. They don't need more burst. If they could burst heal, what would be the point of other healers? Every healer should have it's strengths and it's weaknesses, that's what is balance.

 

2) Half of scoundrel's abilities are instant, that's good enough. And you can boost your mobility with some rotation changes easily.

 

3) If you heal correctly, you won't be close to no heals AND successfully heal through all the stuff (on both commando and scoundrel). They have easy energy regen with diagnostic scan and kolto shot fillers! If you DO have such a problem, it's just a l2p issue. And have you even played sage heals after the last patch? You need to use Vindicate after every 2-3 heals or you will get too low. And when you do start spamming for burst and go super low, you will need a lot of time to get back to full force with healing trance -> 3x vindicate, healing trance -> 3x vindicate. Sage is in a pretty fair spot right now, only a clueless person would nerf it even more.

[Leadplayer]

The fact is every class is viable for pvp and hm ops. Per patch are there preferred heals especially for NiM yes. Just pick a class you enjoy and learn it well. Hell my Merc is still usable for most all NiM ops as an Arsenal Dps lol. Its most all in how you play the class, not the class itself with few exceptions.