Ylliarus Posted June 20, 2017 Author Share Posted June 20, 2017 but pushing it in peoples faces in a video game i'm not a big fan of While I understand what you are saying and don't mean this to you personally, it makes me very sad people call it "pushing it in our face". It's not, it's as if the LGBT community would say "all these straight people around me are shoving their straightness into my face by existing". We simply want to be acknowledged as a part of the world like straight people are, without having to fight for equality. So it's not meant as propaganda or "shoving it in people's faces", it's a request to be represented as if we are normal, because we may be a minority, we are not in any way different from straight people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrra_T Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 (edited) While I understand what you are saying and don't mean this to you personally, it makes me very sad people call it "pushing it in our face". It's not, it's as if the LGBT community would say "all these straight people around me are shoving their straightness into my face by existing". We simply want to be acknowledged as a part of the world like straight people are, without having to fight for equality. So it's not meant as propaganda or "shoving it in people's faces", it's a request to be represented as if we are normal, because we may be a minority, we are not in any way different from straight people And Bioware has always acknowledged varied preference romances in other titles, but the fact is we do have some companions who are bisexual. Lana, Theron and Koth. To re-write, at this date, ALL the original companion romances would fall far down the list of things to do. I, personally, believe Andronikos should 'always' have been written as bisexual and romance-able by any gender. Do I think that is happening? NO. They can't even <insert your favorite expletive> give him back to us after Kotfe. He's STILL on the waiting list of companions to return to us. This title is old enough that rewriting something that 'should' have been re-written 5 years ago to be inclusive would be a huge task and frankly I think they would 'break' ALL the companion romances if they even attempted what you are suggesting. They managed to break the ability to give 'romance' gifts to the original companions simply by introducing KOTFE and adding that new storyline with the accompanying departure of our original companions and the addition of new ones. Adding an entirely new storyline, multiple ones really, for each original companion is a magnitude much larger than the ability to give a gift type. We'd end up with, if we are lucky, the ability to romance Lana(WHEN her romance doesn't bug), Theron and Koth, and that's only if we were lucky. P.S. On the list of things 'I would like to see' on the same sex romance front: Not growing a foot taller when kissing my girlfriend. Bioware apparently feels one female MUST be taller to kiss the other. Even if she isn't to begin with. It results in a disconcerting chance of perspective during a kiss. Edited June 20, 2017 by Kyrra_T typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetFish Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 -1 /notsigned™ We can't start going back and revising things (games, movies, books, etc) for things like this or else where would it end? All we can expect and suggest is for things to be in future versions and that's more than fair and justified. Otherwise people can argue just about anything to be retrofitted such as having morbidly obese characters or wheelchairs or pretty much anything else. And I seriously doubt it's as easy as people seem to think it is to just go back and change a few lines of code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AscendingSky Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) Considering we still don't have a huge number of the original class companions officially 'back' yet in the story... I think going back to the vanilla romances and retroactively rewriting and re-recording voice lines for them all would be way too tall an order for EAWare to accomplish at this point, and a bad use of their limited resources to boot. Let's fix all the things that are broken/bugged/still stuck on cliffhangers instead before we even consider retconning and rewriting still-functional content. Edited June 21, 2017 by AscendingSky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daewan Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 I absolutely support this in spirit, but I really don't want them to do it. I would much rather that they spent the resources on creating newer, better things and left the original companion stories (which were very good, for what they were) alone. They should have done it from the start, but they didn't. So instead, I would rather have them make new things and do it right with new companions, or rewrite companions when they return to be more open minded. Like, Kaliyo or Quinn or Vector. They probably won't do that either, but that is a more realistic dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Personally I think this would be a waste of time as opposed to actual new content, improvements or bug fixes. considering the small niche amount of people that would actually want to re-run the content solely for a same sex romance ... see really small value in this. Also are we talking making all romanceable companions able to be romanced by the same sex? What if the companion doesn't swing that way? Save any further same sex romances for future content imo thus we are getting future content and everyone wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avianatorsparkma Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) As a gaymer I really would have loved to romance Quinn on my male Jugg. The vanilla romances are kinda non existant for me cause I'm only playing male chars and I have no interest in flirting with a female NPC....so no vanilla romances for me. But yet I have to agree that it's not worth reworking these vanilla romances (at least for me). Not only because this would probably indeed screw up a lot of things and cause more bugs than joy...but also because these vanilla romances are just too limited. They end so fast and then they are completly and forever over. If you compare these vanilla romances to the Theron/ Lana romances you will get what I mean. Theron and Lana are offering romance options on a more regulary and persistent way. These romances are actually active and full-blown and not done and forever forgotten. This is why I always would choose Theron's romance over Quinn's...though Quinn is the hotter guy. That beeing said...even for me as a gaymer, reworking the vanilla romances would be a waste of resources. Instead I would like to see some more and better quality romance time with Theron/ Lana in the future. I would like to see these 2 romances receiving much more depth and not just only these trivial "by the way flirts". I would love if Theron sais things like "Hey Sweetheart" when I summone him instead of his unromantic default lines. ( I mean we are a couple....why does he greet me like a platonic friend?) And I also would like to see some occasional entertaining LGBT sidekick flirt options with different future NPCs but nothing big that forces me to break up with Theron. (I'm not breaking up a full-blown romance for a simple flirt-quickie.) So yeah I'm all for LGBT romance options but reworking the vanilla romances is nothing I am interested in. Edited June 21, 2017 by Avianatorsparkma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MandFlurry Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 I didn't mean of course for them to completely discard the original romance, that could remain as it is but it would be nice if certain characters from your vanilla crew members would be a LGBT romance option. So basically it would be an addition instead of a revision I know that it would take too many resources, as they would have to over-haul all of the Games concersations. It would also mean, that we would no longer be getting content of any kind unless EA made a special unit of the LGBT. It's hard enough getting any content period, and the Devs are working hard with from what i've heard here on the New Ops that could be 3 months behind. Those Ops people are a bigger core to this game, than other things are right now because we have lost so many people that we need back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusramsey Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 I can generally appreciate the sentiment of not wanting companions NPCs to be 'playersexual', but fully established characters that are who they are. However, various options should have been there from the start. I wouldn't have thought to ask for this, but I think mostly because I can't imagine it would ever happen, but I would absolutely love it if they did do it. It'd keep me occupied for a good long while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretzel_Eis Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 The first same gender romance was in Rise of the Hutt Cartel, Cytherat was one (and I hope for him to return as a companion someday!) and a few others but I forgot their names. But true, Theron, Koth, Lana are the first companions that are bisexual, as Cytherat was a story character not a comp. The main cast being 'bisexual' is lazy writing on their part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SourOrange Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) I could get behind this. The whole "it ruins immersion" thing is an argument that never held water to me. If you romance a male character with a female character, in your storyline they are straight. They aren't interested in men or other women, because they're interested in your character. And the same goes for any character relationship involving any genders. Aside from that, if that ruins your immersion, does it also ruin your immersion to know there are a couple thousand other versions of that same character accompanying and/or being romanced by others? Does it ruin your immersion to know that you aren't the only Sith Warrior or Jedi Knight? There is no difference between knowing these things, and knowing others can engage in romance with the same character that you can. A character being available for romance to anyone doesn't diminish who they are as a person- there is way more to a person than what they prefer in the bedroom, and if anyone were to disagree with that, I would be concerned about their priorities. Selfishness is no reason to keep others from having the same capability to enjoy a game as you do. Your ability to engage in romance with a certain character will not be diminished in any way- in fact, allowing everyone to do what they feel is right for their character can only benefit the game. Options are important, and I will always speak up in advocacy of allowing more options to be available to a wider audience. And for those who are particularly interested in the romance subplots, the more people who can romance these characters, the better. More people will become interested in seeing them return, and seeing them get more screentime. More support for your cause. Who loses here? Edited June 21, 2017 by SourOrange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshvara Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 I could get behind this. The whole "it ruins immersion" thing is an argument that never held water to me. If you romance a male character with a female character, in your storyline they are straight. They aren't interested in men or other women, because they're interested in your character. And the same goes for any character relationship involving any genders. Aside from that, if that ruins your immersion, does it also ruin your immersion to know there are a couple thousand other versions of that same character accompanying and/or being romanced by others? Does it ruin your immersion to know that you aren't the only Sith Warrior or Jedi Knight? There is no difference between knowing these things, and knowing others can engage in romance with the same character that you can. A character being available for romance to anyone doesn't diminish who they are as a person- there is way more to a person than what they prefer in the bedroom, and if anyone were to disagree with that, I would be concerned about their priorities. Selfishness is no reason to keep others from having the same capability to enjoy a game as you do. Your ability to engage in romance with a certain character will not be diminished in any way- in fact, allowing everyone to do what they feel is right for their character can only benefit the game. Options are important, and I will always speak up in advocacy of allowing more options to be available to a wider audience. And for those who are particularly interested in the romance subplots, the more people who can romance these characters, the better. More people will become interested in seeing them return, and seeing them get more screentime. More support for your cause. Who loses here? So how would you romance someone like Doc or Corso as a male while they're clearly interested in women? Are you going to pretend they're not? Are you going to want the times where they talk about women in a chivalrous way or whatever involved women to be removed? Do you want your characters to not have a type of a preferred gender just so everyone can shave a choice? No thanks. Sera is Sera because she's a lesbian and Dorian is Dorian because he's gay. It has a very big impact on the way they are, just as in real life the way people identify with their sexuality really matters to them. People put how they're lesbian or gay in their signatures on a gaming forum. It matters to them, why can't it matter to me that my love interest identifies with a particular sexuality? If everything is going to be available for everyone a lot of characters who have preferences or are a certain type of person can't happen because they have to be as neutral as they can be, just so that they be available to everyone. And that sucks. Removing options in order to add others isn't an upgrade. That said, it isn't worth the time effort and money. There are a million things that this game needs that are far more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylliarus Posted June 21, 2017 Author Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) I find myself agreeing with both of the above posters, as I do get that being able to play your character the way you believe they should be played is definitely an important part of a game like SWTOR. However, the part about Sera and Dorian really made a lot of sense to me, because it is true. Even in real life people are who they are based on such things like sexual orientation and various other factors. If for example everyone suddenly fell for the gender that started flirting with them that would take away a part of their uniqueness. So doing the same for companions in this game would be a pity and in fact a loss of resources that could have been spent differently, I see that now. However, as someone earlier pointed out it would be nice for a very small number of companions who return to have maybe a little coming out. At least, a few characters that we always have suspected to be but never got confirmation (sidenote am I the only one whose gaydar is going wild when seeing Darth Zash?). Or, bring back characters like Cytherat, who was confirmed gay, as companions for example. I found him an extremely interesting character in RotHC and was really sad he never joined you as a companion. Edited June 21, 2017 by Ylliarus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmodesu Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Who loses if this happened/was implemented? Well the possibility is there that every single player would lose out in various ways. It would take far too much time and effort from the team which could be put towards far more important things. Like bug fixes, new content - story pvp flashpoint w/e, another expansion, more stuff for returned companions, the rest of the companions returning, more Ops and un-rushed bosses, hopefully fixing the iffy servers that keep putting people in queues when logging in for some reason, or not letting them in at all etc. I could go on with the things they could do instead, but will end saying this could also break a chunk of the game if they messed with the vanilla, or anything pre kotfe, parts of the code. Is it really worth the risk? In my opinion it is not worth risking breaking half the game over, or losing out on content we could have gotten instead just to go back and re-do some romances. SWTOR has never been romance heavy or prioritised like single player bioware games often are, nor should it be. I am only against the presented idea in this thread for the reasons I stated in my paragraph. Nothing to do with any other reason people might want to pretend is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ylliarus Posted June 21, 2017 Author Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) Who loses if this happened/was implemented? Well the possibility is there that every single player would lose out in various ways. It would take far too much time and effort from the team which could be put towards far more important things. Like bug fixes, new content - story pvp flashpoint w/e, another expansion, more stuff for returned companions, the rest of the companions returning, more Ops and un-rushed bosses, hopefully fixing the iffy servers that keep putting people in queues when logging in for some reason, or not letting them in at all etc. I could go on with the things they could do instead, but will end saying this could also break a chunk of the game if they messed with the vanilla, or anything pre kotfe, parts of the code. Is it really worth the risk? In my opinion it is not worth risking breaking half the game over, or losing out on content we could have gotten instead just to go back and re-do some romances. SWTOR has never been romance heavy or prioritised like single player bioware games often are, nor should it be. I am only against the presented idea in this thread for the reasons I stated in my paragraph. Nothing to do with any other reason people might want to pretend is there. No, no, I see your point ans agree. While more same gender romances would be amazing to see, I do get that solely focusing on that by doing a total revamp of things would divert resources from other parts of the game that are more important to be expanded upon. The idea therefore I agree is not something that should be implemented, but perhaps for in the future when companions start returning or new ones are added this thread could be taken into consideration Edited June 21, 2017 by Ylliarus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 As the title states I was wondering whether the community would want to see the "vanilla" companion romances revised in such a way that they would enable our player characters to romance them when they are of the same gender. The inclusion of LGBT romances namely first came with RotHC, but they were never made a part of the base game. With the amazing inclusion of same gender romance in KotFE and KotET where aside from our own character multiple other NPC and story characters appeared to identify as LGBT, my question also was to Bioware whether they'd consider doing something of the sorts or if such a thing would be off the table? The Devs did go back and remake the intro cutscenes of the 8 base class storylines, so maybe it's not a stretch to hope they'd do the same for the original companion romances For example, a female Sith Inquisitor able to romance Ashara Zavros, or a male Sith Warrior able to romance Malavai Quinn? What I would love for them to keep is the marriage part of those romances, because in KotET and KotFE we do get to have same gender romance, but not marriage as far as I know. At least, my male Darth Imperius wasn't able to marry Theron Shan yet and make him a proper Imperial (as he always should have been hehe). So it would be amazing to have the ability to have Quinn and male Warrior marry one another. Does the community agree? Would something like this be a welcome sight or do you think there are bigger fish to fry? I'd love to know your thoughts! I've asked for this and so have many others over the years. It's usually shouted down by people saying it ruins "their" experience and that those characters aren't LGBT and it should not happen I gave up championing this cause because of the hate and illogical arguments and ultimately the trolling it causes of people asking for this option. If it happens I'll be happy and welcome it. But I doubt it will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Sith Warroirs can be polygamists. If you romance Vette and do not start any flirtations with Jeasa [pretty much you don't do any companion interactions with her for the time being], once you Marry Vette, after that you can start doing companion interactions witj Jaesa and you can romance her and end up marrying her with no conflict with Vette. You just need to leave Jaesa alone until you marry Vette. Of course this means that the vanilla stroyline is almost over by the time you Marry Vette but you can marry them both like this. I did =] Of course, this requires that Jaesa be Darkside [which she should be anyways, shes so much cooler and yummier than lightside Jaesa]. You'll get letters from both of them referring to you as husband. Why settle for one when you can have two? And 4 is better than 2 =p If only my female warrior could do the same 😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrra_T Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) Do I think it would be lovely to have romances added to the origjnal companions? Yup. Do I think the devs even 'have' the resources to do such a massive undertaking? This isn't writing a script. Adding in new romances needs new cinematics, new art, and lots of new code. Desire for a thing on a players part does not translate to the magical acquisition of resources, with the skill level to trundle through very old code filled with fall through logic and not create a cluster of galactic magnitude. Even in the 'new' companions Lana doesn't work half the time for several of my female/female romances. She is bugged and often responses that I know are there, having seen them on other characters doing the SAME romance simply do not occur. Yes, I KNOW I am in the romance. Half the time Lana knows it. The other half she does not. Using this as an example alone I can think of no way that retooling all of the original companion romances could result in anything that remotely works in game. Some of the original companions are in fact clearly written in such a way that makes it clear they have no defined preference. Not all of them. But certainly Kaliyo was. Kaliyo is a player, she is also pan-sexual and polyamorous. She was WRITTEN that way. She specifically tells the agent, while romancing him, that she reserves the right to 'play' with both boys and girls. Yet, when she returns in KOTFE she turns down the female/female flirt. She dismisses the fact that she has a female lover that the IA tracked down WITH Kaliyo in the ORIGINAL storyline. She, in that conversation, dismisses that lover and states that she was 'never into her' and only used her. I presume this is because Bioware, for whatever reason, decided that they didn't want to code romances lines. Not that we have many of them anyway in any return but the point is they made a decision. That fact that they did not do so, on a original companion that it would be perfectly reasonable and logical to add in an additional romance, tells me that they aren't going to make the choice to add in different romance options on original companions. The fact that I think that the request isn't possible doesn't mean I don't want to see it. I would love it. Edited June 21, 2017 by Kyrra_T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediQuaker Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 It's not likely to happen. It would be too time consuming and expensive to retro-fit the old conversations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 So, no to the polygamy? You didn't do both Vette and Jaessa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_riches Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Unfortunately while I would love this I think we are long past that point where they will go back and add same sex romances into the original game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fushnchips Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 They will never do this with original content and I'm glad because the cost of getting in voice actors, reprogramming the original content, and a lot more stuff is way to expensive and Bioware will not do this for a 0.1% of the player base now going forward in future content I think it's something they should do but anyone asking for original content changes are just delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco_invictus Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 just no. I am really kind of sick by how much consideration people put into a fictional romance. AS if its real. If anything they should just get rid of the entire concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshvara Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 just no. I am really kind of sick by how much consideration people put into a fictional romance. AS if its real. If anything they should just get rid of the entire concept. Why do you play a Bioware game if you don't like romance included? It's kind of what they do. We all know the romance in game isn't real, or it wouldn't be as good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediAkemi Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 As much as I've always wanted to romance Kira on my female Jedi Knights, I know it's never going to officially happen. More diverse romance options from the start would have been nice, but as others have said, there's just not the budget to go back and remake the vanilla romances to include it... and do we really trust them not to break a bunch of other stuff in the process if they did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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