In SWTOR the "Real" Game starts at level 1

[Apax]

Yes I do belive that it does. Why? well when I play my BH, then well how do I define me well through the actions I do.

 

I like I can choose what way I can kill a story person or if I really whant to kill him.

a little from the BH quest simplified where I liked it.

 

1 Torture him

2 plain kill him

3 let him go

 

This kind of thing i really like. That defines my character of how I perceive him. There are also bigger thing but I like stuff like that.

The example you've used here is actually a prime example of how your decisions *don't* impact the storyline in this game.

 

Regardless of what you decide, you still get the rewards (sometimes plus or minus an extra credit box). And you still advance through the story without fail.

 

Honestly, how many times do you think your Bounty Hunter should be able to *not* complete the task he was hired to do before he gets a reputation as being the most unreliable Bounty Hunter ever? And why would people continue giving him missions at that point? You can fail to fulfill every contract and let your target go every single time and it never really comes back to bite you in the rear. There are simply no consequences to your actions beyond an adjustment on a light/dark point scale that gives you access to different gear.

 

All the choices in dialogue responses we have simply add or subtract an extra comment from the NPC. A typical dialogue tree looks like this:

 

NPC: I won't lie to you, this mission is death on a stick. Your chances of survival are practically nil. But we need you to do this if my family is going to survive.

 

Player response choice 1) Count me in.

 

NPC response to choice 1: That's what I like to hear. You got spirit, kid. Strap this bomb to your back and head north to the rancor cave. Good luck, you'll need it.

 

Player response choice 2) This sounds like a bad plan. Isn't there another way?

 

NPC response to choice 2: If there were, we'd be trying that instead. Strap this bomb to your back and head north to the rancor cave. Good luck, you'll need it.

 

Player response choice 3) Better plan. You do this instead and I'll wait here with your beautiful wife.

 

NPC response to choice 3: Believe me, if it weren't for the arrow I took to the knee I would! That makes you our best hope. Strap this bomb to your back and head north to the rancor cave. Good luck, you'll need it.

 

Not much in the way of impactful decisions there once you give the game an honest look. Choice is an illusion. The best you can hope for is feeling like you handled that conversation in a nice or evil way. And (like my example above) half the time the game disagrees with you on what is the real good and evil choice, forcing you to say what the dialogue writer wants instead if you plan on sticking to the light/dark side.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Apax

[Klarick]

Am I the only person who wants to force choke some of these haters. If the game is so aweful go play something else.

 

/qft

/5CHAR

[Jederix]

What happens when you hit level cap? That is the difference between a single player game and a MMO. End game IS the game in an MMO, everything else is prologue.

 

It is this mentality that is killing the MMO genre, just so you know.

[shaunj]

No, 3 hours of cut scenes about go collect 10 X on each planet gets old very quickly.

 

No it doesn't.

 

I have yet to get bored of it.

[Jederix]

I don't think giving an example that had to go F2P because of lack of subs bolsters your argument well.

 

It was many years before it was and even WoW is partially F2P. Your point?

 

Oh, pointless hater whining. So there was no point at all. Gotcha.

[Jederix]

The example you've used here is actually a prime example of how your decisions *don't* impact the storyline in this game.

 

Regardless of what you decide, you still get the rewards (sometimes plus or minus an extra credit box). And you still advance through the story without fail.

 

Honestly, how many times do you think your Bounty Hunter should be able to *not* complete the task he was hired to do before he gets a reputation as being the most unreliable Bounty Hunter ever? And why would people continue giving him missions at that point? You can fail to fulfill every contract and let your target go every single time and it never really comes back to bite you in the rear. There are simply no consequences to your actions beyond an adjustment on a light/dark point scale that gives you access to different gear.

 

All the choices in dialogue responses we have simply add or subtract an extra comment from the NPC. A typical dialogue tree looks like this:

 

NPC: I won't lie to you, this mission is death on a stick. Your chances of survival are practically nil. But we need you to do this if my family is going to survive.

 

Player response choice 1) Count me in.

 

NPC response to choice 1: That's what I like to hear. You got spirit, kid. Strap this bomb to your back and head north to the rancor cave. Good luck, you'll need it.

 

Player response choice 2) This sounds like a bad plan. Isn't there another way?

 

NPC response to choice 2: If there were, we'd be trying that instead. Strap this bomb to your back and head north to the rancor cave. Good luck, you'll need it.

 

Player response choice 3) Better plan. You do this instead and I'll wait here with your beautiful wife.

 

NPC response to choice 3: Believe me, if it weren't for the arrow I took to the knee I would! That makes you our best hope. Strap this bomb to your back and head north to the rancor cave. Good luck, you'll need it.

 

Not much in the way of impactful decisions there once you give the game an honest look. Choice is an illusion. The best you can hope for is feeling like you handled that conversation in a nice or evil way. And (like my example above) half the time the game disagrees with you on what is the real good and evil choice, forcing you to say what the dialogue writer wants instead if you plan on sticking to the light/dark side.

 

This is an MMO, other people have to play behind you. No MMO will ever have true "choice" that alters the game world as you seem to be looking for. I guess it is back to single player games for you.

[brusthoden]

you all act like you can't group for these quests while lvling it's encouraged social points and the roll off for who wins the answer this is WIN i keep seeing this is a single player game bull your just doing it wrong. and the cut scenes i love them gives a sense of whats going on i hated reading all those quest givers in wow this is a great alternative if you dont like it space through it you people are just complaining to complain they gave you all the tools to make this game what you want it to be but most people are to ignorant to figure the tools out or too lazy to use them so shut it!

[Emencie]

you all act like you can't group for these quests while lvling it's encouraged social points and the roll off for who wins the answer this is WIN i keep seeing this is a single player game bull your just doing it wrong. and the cut scenes i love them gives a sense of whats going on i hated reading all those quest givers in wow this is a great alternative if you dont like it space through it you people are just complaining to complain they gave you all the tools to make this game what you want it to be but most people are to ignorant to figure the tools out or too lazy to use them so shut it!

 

It’s because Single player games are built like this. In a single player game the game starts at level 1 (as the OP put it) The game’s dynamic and involving story keeps you pulled in while you play through it and it comes to a thrilling conclusion at the end. It has worked well and people love it. But once you beat it (sometimes a couple of times) you don’t play it anymore. At least not for the single player experience. FPS games get around this by having the PvP aspect. Something that that genre excels at. However the problem with the model when used in an MMO (like BW has done) is that MMO’s need subscriptions and people to keep playing the game for a long while.

 

The way SWTOR has been setup people are already done playing the game. Done meaning they have experienced their class story in its entirety, and have very little or no end game content to do.

 

BW has put their eggs into the basket of Roll an alt, and play through their story For some that will work but even then it’s a very short term fix. Many MMO players actually like to have a single character that they build on and play for years. They are already left out by the game model. Even those that want to experience the story of every class will find they are done with the game in a very few months. Getting to 50 and doing the class quests in their entirety doesn’t take long we now know.

 

The best way I can put it is would you pay for a subscription to Mass effect? How long would you pay for that subscription after you beat it the first time? The second time? How many players do you think will go through the hundreds of hours of identical gameplay to get the few hours of unique class quest gameplay, for the second time? Third time? Fourth time? Even if you did it for every class that’s only 8 play through. And as I mentioned earlier it wasn’t hard for people to do that in just a few weeks with one character. Image when its your 5th time going through.

 

The reason every successful MMO has been ”The real game starts at level cap” Is because they need people to keep playing after level cap. With TOR many players are not finding a reason to do so. And weather or not you agree you should be worried that such a mass exodus is possible after less than a month of the game being out.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Emencie

[Kurmo]

OP seems delusional, it's still a grind disguised with a binary moral system. Edited December 29, 2011 by Kurmo

[Brothertom]

So, WoWs end-game has been going on for the last 8 years?

WoW's raids, where less than 6% of the player base (Blizzards numbers -- not mine) ever see it, is end game?

Changing your toons play-style with every patch is end-game?

 

The only "true" end-game that any game can have is PvP. I will let you figure that statement out, as it would take a bit to explain it fully.

 

Your statement of End-Game IS the game is why MMOs of today fail. This paradigm was created by Blizzard, who because of their paradigm now has to spend months upon months and spend a huge budget in creating so called end-game content every two months. After all that time and money they sit back and watch their "end-game" players burn through it in 2 weeks then head to the forum and scream for more.

 

You have missed the point of the topic dear Sir. This Paradigm NEEDS to be broken or we will all be stuck playing WoW forever. BW took a chance with SWTOR. They have decided to attack that paradigm.

 

I for one believe they succeeded.

 

 

how incredibly inaccurate xD

[jettemakaron]

At about lvl 25 or so i started to skip all the dialog, same blabber all the time. Just get me lvl 50 so i can enjoy some endgame, thats what i will pay money to do and that what mmos are all about, ENDGAME content.

[Kurmo]

At about lvl 25 or so i started to skip all the dialog, same blabber all the time. Just get me lvl 50 so i can enjoy some endgame, thats what i will pay money to do and that what mmos are all about, ENDGAME content.

 

I follow the storyline quest, but most of the sidequests are:

 

X is a threat to the empire, kill 10

X is a valuable asset to the empire, collect 10

Blow up this gun that's shooting at us

Kill Jedi #54358739475

[Staticclean]

I love the fact that all the quests are voice acted. I don't care how mundane the reason is for why they want me to do the things they need done. I would rather listen to them talk to me than have a box pop up with text on it, just to close it because I would rather not read it. I finally have missions, and know why I'm doing them.

 

Some of you may not care, and that's fine. Mash the space bar as fast as you feel, but why knock it? You really don't have to listen to them talk. Really, you don't. But isn't it nice to know if you did want to know what the quests are about, that they talk to you, instead of having to read it? I fail to see why this is a bad thing.

[Technohic]

There is still a "grind" in that you have to kill so many of this, collect so many of that, or click on this and that; but those cut scenes do really make the difference. And I am not talking so much about being able to answer which BTW, the value there is "role playing" not to be confused with changing outcomes and I know its a new concept to MMORPGs to have the "role playing" aspect actually exist. The cut scenes that really draw me in are the stuff like when I get ambushed, its more than just some NPCs suddenly spawn a lot of times.

 

I really am hoping that someone tries to kill me again somewhere.

[Daekarus]

The OP hit things right on the head... I'm loving getting to play the "REAL" game right from the start!

[Blogmonster]

Precisely why I love this game so much.

 

Me too!

[Blogmonster]

No, 3 hours of cut scenes about go collect 10 X on each planet gets old very quickly.

 

If you like hitting your space bar.

[Staticclean]

I follow the storyline quest, but most of the sidequests are:

 

X is a threat to the empire, kill 10

 

Really? Because most of the grind quests like these are bonus quests.

 

The other side quests are similar to most MMOs, it's the story behind the quests, even if it is boring to you.

[brusthoden]

end game is diff for every person as has been said most people in WOW haven't downed deathwing yet. Achievements, World Events, pet's, Rare Drops, Mounts, and Gold as well as raiding and dungs. It all adds up bioware is on the right track if your bored now it's cause you rushed this is a laid back type of game take your time and savor hence the voice acting. they are adding a new dung and raid next month supposedly if they stay on this track then the end game will constantly progress the story won't end your class story might but the empire story continues. I Love it!

[geogenetic]

It’s because Single player games are built like this. In a single player game the game starts at level 1 (as the OP put it) The game’s dynamic and involving story keeps you pulled in while you play through it and it comes to a thrilling conclusion at the end. It has worked well and people love it. But once you beat it (sometimes a couple of times) you don’t play it anymore. At least not for the single player experience. FPS games get around this by having the PvP aspect. Something that that genre excels at. However the problem with the model when used in an MMO (like BW has done) is that MMO’s need subscriptions and people to keep playing the game for a long while.

 

The way SWTOR has been setup people are already done playing the game. Done meaning they have experienced their class story in its entirety, and have very little or no end game content to do.

 

BW has put their eggs into the basket of Roll an alt, and play through their story For some that will work but even then it’s a very short term fix. Many MMO players actually like to have a single character that they build on and play for years. They are already left out by the game model. Even those that want to experience the story of every class will find they are done with the game in a very few months. Getting to 50 and doing the class quests in their entirety doesn’t take long we now know.

 

The best way I can put it is would you pay for a subscription to Mass effect? How long would you pay for that subscription after you beat it the first time? The second time? How many players do you think will go through the hundreds of hours of identical gameplay to get the few hours of unique class quest gameplay, for the second time? Third time? Fourth time? Even if you did it for every class that’s only 8 play through. And as I mentioned earlier it wasn’t hard for people to do that in just a few weeks with one character. Image when its your 5th time going through.

 

The reason every successful MMO has been ”The real game starts at level cap” Is because they need people to keep playing after level cap. With TOR many players are not finding a reason to do so. And weather or not you agree you should be worried that such a mass exodus is possible after less than a month of the game being out.

 

Anyone who is level 50 right now IS doing it wrong. I guarantee they skipped every cutscene just to go get xp faster. Play the game the way it was intended and you just might enjoy yourself for more than a week.

[Skerry]

What happens when you hit level cap? That is the difference between a single player game and a MMO. End game IS the game in an MMO, everything else is prologue.

 

 

No, and that is where so many people get disappointed; false perceptions.

 

The end game is just another facet of the game as a whole, it isn't the whole point of the game. In fact, if anything, the "end game" is the intermission; the pause in the game. It is the "what you do until the expansion comes out". Considering MMO's never "end", there is no "end game".

 

Also, since with each expansion the "end" moves; it cannot in fact be - the end game

[Kurmo]

Anyone who is level 50 right now IS doing it wrong. I guarantee they skipped every cutscene just to go get xp faster. Play the game the way it was intended and you just might enjoy yourself for more than a week.

 

I turned on subtitles and read most of it before they were halfway through saying it. A lot of the dialogue is pretty awkward anyways.

[atnasomus]

Anyone who is level 50 right now IS doing it wrong. I guarantee they skipped every cutscene just to go get xp faster. Play the game the way it was intended and you just might enjoy yourself for more than a week.

 

Imagine someone is listening to an album by Boston (Boston 1976), but they only listen to 2 of the 8 tracks. Well, they aren't real fans and they are listening to it wrong because it was not was the artist intended.

 

oh no. It's a commercial product and it's up to the consumer how it is used. Get over yourself man.

 

 

That aside, it is easily possible to get to 50 by this point without mashing spacebar. It just means you haven't spent much time doing much else this holiday season.

[Dakien]

Imagine someone is listening to an album by Boston (Boston 1976), but they only listen to 2 of the 8 tracks. Well, they aren't real fans and they are listening to it wrong because it was not was the artist intended.

 

oh no. It's a commercial product and it's up to the consumer how it is used. Get over yourself man.

 

 

That aside, it is easily possible to get to 50 by this point without mashing spacebar. It just means you haven't spent much time doing much else this holiday season.

 

So... by your own example this person bought a product; used 20% of it and may or may not be disappointed. If you only use 20% of the product and have reached your perceived zenith, then you may not be doing it wrong but you did it in a way that was unintended.

 

Sort of like drinking a beer with your butt! You only get the 4-6% alcohol and it'll get you drunk faster, but is it more fun? Maybe....

[Areka]

Those that are new to MMO's may not fully appreciate this topics title. Let me explain. In most MMO's the "Real" game does not start until you reach the highest level and begin running the "so-called end-game content". Take the king of MMOS, WoW, as an example. The road from 1-85 is an excruciating one where nothing you do will have any impact on your toon at level 85. It is called a "grind" for a reason. WoW is not the only culprit here. Most MMOs follow this same broken paradigm.

 

SWTOR breaks the paradigm and sets a new one.

 

In SWTOR the "Real" game starts the moment you see the first cut-scene of your character. Starting at level 1 the decisions you make FORM your character. Each mission, each answer you chose has an impact. The game starts at level 1 -- not at the level end-cap! People, this is HUGE! It is genre-setting! It blows away the current MMO paraqdigm of grinding to end-cap levels.

 

This is why SWTOR succeeds. It is ground breaking in its approach. It amazingly combines the single player aspect with the MMO one. Dont let the complainers fool you either. There is an absolute TON of group content in this game. Yes -- It is an MMO in every aspect of the word EXCEPT it breaks the grind.

 

Your SWTOR life begins at level 1.

Some people only care about the end and not how you achieved that end. They miss the little steps taken to reach the end of the way.

 

They also miss how nice is to face each quest being able to choose how you face it. It doesn't matter if the end of the way is the same no matter which choices you make, what matters is that along the way each character can react to the different events in different ways (which defines how your cahracter, personality wise, is). Some of us do appreciate that. So yes, you don't have a bazillion endings like Chrono Trigger, which is not a MMORPG but a single player RPG, but it's one of those many limitations that RPGs suffer when made into MMORPGs.

 

RPG doesn't stand for "Gear up, kill, level up".

 

And I don't even know if I went off topic. XD