In SWTOR the "Real" Game starts at level 1

[Zolexus]

Those that are new to MMO's may not fully appreciate this topics title. Let me explain. In most MMO's the "Real" game does not start until you reach the highest level and begin running the "so-called end-game content". Take the king of MMOS, WoW, as an example. The road from 1-85 is an excruciating one where nothing you do will have any impact on your toon at level 85. It is called a "grind" for a reason. WoW is not the only culprit here. Most MMOs follow this same broken paradigm.

 

SWTOR breaks the paradigm and sets a new one.

 

In SWTOR the "Real" game starts the moment you see the first cut-scene of your character. Starting at level 1 the decisions you make FORM your character. Each mission, each answer you chose has an impact. The game starts at level 1 -- not at the level end-cap! People, this is HUGE! It is genre-setting! It blows away the current MMO paraqdigm of grinding to end-cap levels.

 

This is why SWTOR succeeds. It is ground breaking in its approach. It amazingly combines the single player aspect with the MMO one. Dont let the complainers fool you either. There is an absolute TON of group content in this game. Yes -- It is an MMO in every aspect of the word EXCEPT it breaks the grind.

 

Your SWTOR life begins at level 1.

 

 

Yep your swtor life begins at 1 and ends after you're 50 for a few weeks. You know there's a reason why a lot of MMOs focus on the endgame.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Zolexus

[Dayln]

But not doing what you're doing is still not rushing.

 

You are simply being slow by any MMORPG scale, even if all 6 of your toons are L49 really.

 

I certainly took my time, but L50 is still a bit of a brick wall/cliff.

 

Oh no, I actually have a life other than playing MMO's, a game is just something I do for fun

 

I have a mid 40, a couple of mid 30's a couple of mid 20's and a low level one I am having a blast playing

[Goretzu]

Oh no, I actually have a life other than playing MMO's, a game is just something I do for fun

 

I have a mid 40, a couple of mid 30's a couple of mid 20's and a low level one I am having a blast playing

 

You will though, levelling is pretty good in SWTOR (if you can accept that there is only 1 path per side).

 

That doesn't mean L50 issues don't exist though, or indeed that people reaching L50 now or even in the last month or so have "rushed" there in a somehow OTT way. You'd easily be L50 with your play time you've listed their if you'd had 1 toon and maybe even 2 x L50 toons.

[Mrs_Murder]

Your SWTOR life begins at level 1.

 

And ends at level 50.

[amantheil]

Irony must escape you on a daily basis.

 

1. Even though your number is arbitrary, the fact that its 20% different for a same-faction playthrough (THAT ARE BOTH SITH) is revolutionary for any MMO, and majority of single-player RPGs, too.

 

It's not really revolutionary at all. You can go from 1-60 in WoW with different characters of the same faction and experience almost completely different content on both characters. They offer multiple zones for any given level range, and you can take a completely different progression. It gets a little tighter once you get into the expansions, but even then are options. SWTOR really offers only a fraction of that. Yes, you can choose different side quests, do bonus series, etc. - but you're still going through a pretty similar progression on any character of starter world -> Coursucant/Dromund Kass -> Balmorra/Taris -> Nar Shadda -> Tatooine -> Alderaan -> etc.

[P-Funk]

This game reminds me of LA Noire. Its like it looks SO GOOD! There's all this great voice acting, and story, and its going to be so ground breaking. You get in and all that really great ground breaking stuff just exists to present you with an insultingly repetitive and uninspired grind to a miniscule endgame.

 

If my game starts at 1, then why is it so boring everytime some voice actor stops talking?

 

Its why I always felt bad about Halo. Loved the cinematics, hated the derivative uninspired gameplay.

 

Remember KOTOR? Remember the voice acting? Remember how whenever the voices stopped there was something fun to do? Why is this somehow not that fun? If its modeled on that then how can it not be as fun as a 9 year old game?

Edited April 3, 2012 by P-Funk

[Synxos]

So, WoWs end-game has been going on for the last 8 years?

WoW's raids, where less than 6% of the player base (Blizzards numbers -- not mine) ever see it, is end game?

Changing your toons play-style with every patch is end-game?

 

The only "true" end-game that any game can have is PvP. I will let you figure that statement out, as it would take a bit to explain it fully.

 

Your statement of End-Game IS the game is why MMOs of today fail. This paradigm was created by Blizzard, who because of their paradigm now has to spend months upon months and spend a huge budget in creating so called end-game content every two months. After all that time and money they sit back and watch their "end-game" players burn through it in 2 weeks then head to the forum and scream for more.

 

You have missed the point of the topic dear Sir. This Paradigm NEEDS to be broken or we will all be stuck playing WoW forever. BW took a chance with SWTOR. They have decided to attack that paradigm.

 

I for one believe they succeeded.

someone who thinks WoW was the first MMO. "This paradigm was created by Blizzard"

lol you guys make me laugh.

 

 

This leveling system is awesome, btw. Never seen nothing like it in any MMO(many were before WoW) I've played before.

But when it's so quick to level up(possible in a week for someone with no life, took me like 3 weeks) the endgame comes super quick. It's a major problem when there is little endgame content.

[Lostkoss]

go back to COD or WoW no one wil miss you !

 

Careful what you wish for back in December there buddy.

 

Seems like lots of people have taken your advice to heart.

 

Seeing all the complaints now about "empty worlds", I guess you were wrong.

 

Someone is evidently missing us.

 

 

Uninstalled - 4-1-12 - Origin too.

[BCBull]

and it ends 3 weeks after 50...

[Coiffio]

This game reminds me of LA Noire. Its like it looks SO GOOD! There's all this great voice acting, and story, and its going to be so ground breaking. You get in and all that really great ground breaking stuff just exists to present you with an insultingly repetitive and uninspired grind to a miniscule endgame.

 

If my game starts at 1, then why is it so boring everytime some voice actor stops talking?

 

Its why I always felt bad about Halo. Loved the cinematics, hated the derivative uninspired gameplay.

 

Remember KOTOR? Remember the voice acting? Remember how whenever the voices stopped there was something fun to do? Why is this somehow not that fun? If its modeled on that then how can it not be as fun as a 9 year old game?

 

 

 

This is my issue with the game. Some of the class stories are really good. it seems though that the excellent voice acting is wasted on the repetitive quests which surround the main story. They mostly boil down to kill this enemy 30 times, or collect 10 of this item. No matter how well acted these parts are, they just can't make this type of gameplay exciting. Some variety in the quest types would be a welcome change at least for me.

[Smilingdeath]

Show me an MMO these days that does not have repetitive missions.

 

Even EVE, a sandbox, all the agent missions are the same, over and over and over again.

 

WOW, supposedly the pinnacle of MMO's, all the missions are the same and the end game. How many times are you gonna go kill deathwing before it gets boring.

 

The great thing about MMO's is that they are always evolving, new content is introduced with every major patch, but it takes time to develop this content.

 

We need to show a bit more patience , this is BW first real foray into the MMO universe, and I say they are doing one heck of a job.

 

please read my sig, and simply quit if you do not like this game. Im sure there are many other MMO's you can be dissapointed to play.

[Srqt]

Ye the game stops at lvl 50 because everything is bugged and nothing is being done about it.

 

weird, I have done HM EV and KP as well as all the HM FPS. Going to start working on NM next and they have been very playable.

 

I have had Soa bug a few times but nothing that clicking exit area and rezoning didn't fix. Annoying yes but not at all game breaking.

[Dawgtide]

Those that are new to MMO's may not fully appreciate this topics title. Let me explain. In most MMO's the "Real" game does not start until you reach the highest level and begin running the "so-called end-game content". Take the king of MMOS, WoW, as an example. The road from 1-85 is an excruciating one where nothing you do will have any impact on your toon at level 85. It is called a "grind" for a reason. WoW is not the only culprit here. Most MMOs follow this same broken paradigm.

 

SWTOR breaks the paradigm and sets a new one.

 

In SWTOR the "Real" game starts the moment you see the first cut-scene of your character. Starting at level 1 the decisions you make FORM your character. Each mission, each answer you chose has an impact. The game starts at level 1 -- not at the level end-cap! People, this is HUGE! It is genre-setting! It blows away the current MMO paraqdigm of grinding to end-cap levels.

 

This is why SWTOR succeeds. It is ground breaking in its approach. It amazingly combines the single player aspect with the MMO one. Dont let the complainers fool you either. There is an absolute TON of group content in this game. Yes -- It is an MMO in every aspect of the word EXCEPT it breaks the grind.

 

Your SWTOR life begins at level 1.

 

Yep, don't even need to read the replies. That is why I am on character two and plan on playing at least 6 more to 50. Hopefully by then an expansion comes with more content.

[kirorx]

I must admit that the best part of this game is ch.1 for all my toons. The downside is after the first 10 levels it the same side quests again on the same planets and in the same order.

 

Somewhere around level 30 or so the game feels like it slows down storywise and i find myself doing pvp or repeating flashpoints because i am tired of picking up the same side quests at every new bind location.

 

Its around level 30 were i start rerolling personally, I feel like i have lost interest by that point.

 

If this game just continued at a stready pace and you followed you questline only untill level 50 that would have been innovative. Not to waste anything, all the sidequest could be level 50 content that grants new gear and cool items for completing these storylines.

 

That would be more end game content and you would have so much fun leveling with less repetition and this would have cost no more money or time to create the system like that.

I know some of the side quests are close to questing areas, but that could just be fixed with placement or all the storylines quests could be instanced areas (most are anyway).

Edited April 3, 2012 by kirorx

[Styxx]

The grapes are sour, said the poor fox, when it couldn`t reach them.

[Majestic_Jazz]

The problem is not so much that the game starts at level 1, but rather than it ends at level 50 (or before.)

 

So why am I L50 now and still having fun with my character?

[Dawgtide]

The only "true" end-game that any game can have is PvP. I will let you figure that statement out, as it would take a bit to explain it fully.

 

Your statement of End-Game IS the game is why MMOs of today fail. This paradigm was created by Blizzard, who because of their paradigm now has to spend months upon months and spend a huge budget in creating so called end-game content every two months. After all that time and money they sit back and watch their "end-game" players burn through it in 2 weeks then head to the forum and scream for more.

 

 

While, I agree with the original post, I don't here. What is end game for EQ? It is definately PVP. And it was long before WoW.

[Stupiddrummer]

Those that are new to MMO's may not fully appreciate this topics title. Let me explain. In most MMO's the "Real" game does not start until you reach the highest level and begin running the "so-called end-game content". Take the king of MMOS, WoW, as an example. The road from 1-85 is an excruciating one where nothing you do will have any impact on your toon at level 85. It is called a "grind" for a reason. WoW is not the only culprit here. Most MMOs follow this same broken paradigm.

 

SWTOR breaks the paradigm and sets a new one.

 

In SWTOR the "Real" game starts the moment you see the first cut-scene of your character. Starting at level 1 the decisions you make FORM your character. Each mission, each answer you chose has an impact. The game starts at level 1 -- not at the level end-cap! People, this is HUGE! It is genre-setting! It blows away the current MMO paraqdigm of grinding to end-cap levels.

 

This is why SWTOR succeeds. It is ground breaking in its approach. It amazingly combines the single player aspect with the MMO one. Dont let the complainers fool you either. There is an absolute TON of group content in this game. Yes -- It is an MMO in every aspect of the word EXCEPT it breaks the grind.

 

Your SWTOR life begins at level 1.

 

the game starts at max lvl because that's when you have the most people to play with.

 

There is always going to be more lvl 50s than lvl 14s. There is always going to be more lvl 50s than lvl 36s. There is always going to be more lvl 50s than lvl 40s. I hope you see what im getting at.

 

MMOs are designed for perpetual game-play, where the devs keep adding more content for you to complete until the game finally dies.

 

If you're playing a perpetual game, chances are you are going to get to max lvl. If you are still playing a perpetual game, chances are you are going to spend most of your time at max level.

 

The leveling process is designed to teach you howto play your class. Not be an end in itself. If you want your game to end at max level stop paying a subscription and pick up final fantasy 7 or something.

[DevonDs]

This is one of the reasons I love this game and expect to play for years to come.

[Dawgtide]

In themepark MMOs, the game basically starts at or near max level or when you reach a certain point. EQ2 it is max AA points, EQ1 it is around 85 with a set amount of AA points. WOW it is end game because that is the way it is set up. Same thing with Rift. LOTRO is a bit different even though it is a themepark game, but the main grouping part starts at around 60 and the raiding part stats at max levels.

 

Sandbox MMOs start as soon as you create your character.

 

You want well written quests, go play the original Everquest game. No "kill x number of beasts" there. In that game you had to read the NPC dialogue, then actually type something in to trigger something else. Then you had to think about the quest, and how it relates to the game world and lore then you had to search for possible quest components, and you would advance to the next part of the quest.

 

I can assure you, those quests were better written and better implemented than the tasks you have in TOR simply because the game mechanics allowed for players to think rather than react.

 

Entire gaming communities were created because of the quest system EQ had over a decade ago. There was no quest radar, no quest journal, no map icons, no hints when you moused over the mobs. You had your wits and your friends....of course, once the quest was completed you could just use a website.

 

That was a real quest system. I like TOR's system because I like Bioware's voice overs, but if you played EQ around 1999, you know exactly what I am talking about. That game also had a lot of built in frustration, something TOR does not have.

 

Loved it at the time, loved it for 8 years. But now, thank goodness times have changed. I don't have to go through hell levels or corpse runs anymore. Sometimes things get better with age. I do agree, that map icons for quests is bad. But hey, it is what it is....

[Azzras]

I would think it's easier to add things to end-game than it is to revamp lvls 1-50.

 

Thus, I have to agree with OP in that SWTOR really does begin at lvl 1.

 

My own humble opinion.

[shaggscoob]

I must admit that the best part of this game is ch.1 for all my toons. The downside is after the first 10 levels it the same side quests again on the same planets and in the same order.

 

Somewhere around level 30 or so the game feels like it slows down storywise and i find myself doing pvp or repeating flashpoints because i am tired of picking up the same side quests at every new bind location.

 

Its around level 30 were i start rerolling personally, I feel like i have lost interest by that point.

 

If this game just continued at a stready pace and you followed you questline only untill level 50 that would have been innovative. Not to waste anything, all the sidequest could be level 50 content that grants new gear and cool items for completing these storylines.

 

That would be more end game content and you would have so much fun leveling with less repetition and this would have cost no more money or time to create the system like that.

I know some of the side quests are close to questing areas, but that could just be fixed with placement or all the storylines quests could be instanced areas (most are anyway).

 

This is exactly why I do so much lateral play. I'll play a character one day, then another the next day, switching factions occasionally. It helps break the monotony. Additionally, I always do my current space missions(the ones that give xp) for all my characters each day (which is a bit of a grind, but I love the space mini game). This nets me a lot of xp, so my characters are sufficiently overleveled.

 

When characters are 5-6 levels overleveled, you can skip side quests here and there. Past nar shaddaa (which is also where I find the side quests start dragging things down), many times I'll just do class quest and heroics.

[Sirsri]

In a year you'll spend 100-200 hours levelling and easily 10x that at level cap. Repeat for expansions. Right now I'm at 20 played days. It took me 4 to level and I basically only logged in for raids the last month or so. And we aren't even through the first tier yet, let alone the next 2 or 3 that will exist before the next expansion.

 

Leveling is a portion of the tutorial (the rest is not provided by bioware or Blizzard unfortunately) on how to play the game. It sets the tone, it tells a story, but ultimately the vast majority of the gameplay experience is when you are at level cap.

 

If anything BioWare did themselves a disservice with the leveling content. It's like a console game, a very tightly managed experience step by step, and then suddenly they can't do that anymore (once you finish your class quest at 50), and they just give up trying. It's a very strange experience, because it's like they didn't pay attention when we explained in beta, repeatedly, that the leveling experience exists to support the main game, not the other way around.

[Taomist]

Precisely why I love this game so much.

 

This.

[Dawgtide]

In a year you'll spend 100-200 hours levelling and easily 10x that at level cap. Repeat for expansions. Right now I'm at 20 played days. It took me 4 to level and I basically only logged in for raids the last month or so. And we aren't even through the first tier yet, let alone the next 2 or 3 that will exist before the next expansion.

 

Leveling is a portion of the tutorial (the rest is not provided by bioware or Blizzard unfortunately) on how to play the game. It sets the tone, it tells a story, but ultimately the vast majority of the gameplay experience is when you are at level cap.

 

If anything BioWare did themselves a disservice with the leveling content. It's like a console game, a very tightly managed experience step by step, and then suddenly they can't do that anymore (once you finish your class quest at 50), and they just give up trying. It's a very strange experience, because it's like they didn't pay attention when we explained in beta, repeatedly, that the leveling experience exists to support the main game, not the other way around.

 

Depends on the person too. I stopped my BH right when she finished at level 50 and finished the class chain. Now I am at 46 on my Consular. I have 6 classes to go. I may even do light and dark with each. The point is not everyone plays the same way. I will not spend more time at 50. I did that in EQ. Not again.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Dawgtide