Operative Burst

[Worn]

Hi!

 

Saw this video and was wandering how he could do a 39k krit and burst that hard.

 

Can someone explane me if this is normal or a bug?!

 

[Zolxtren]

ha and people saying operatives are fine.....

[Seterade]

that was a 30k heatseeker reflected with "dodge" reflect utility. while it doesnt eat the dmg like a jugg or mercs reflect an operative "dodge" reflect utility with reflect the tech an force during dodge on the caster as well.

[Gyronamics]

Operative reflect is 150% original damage.

 

If it catches an autocrit combo from a merc and bounces it back (hsm + 5 stack railshot) it can easily blow away over half the mercs healthbar.

 

Easy to do because dodge isn't very visible unlike the MASSIVE GLOWING SHIELD which is mercs 50% reflect.

[Zolxtren]

Operative reflect is 150% original damage.

 

If it catches an autocrit combo from a merc and bounces it back (hsm + 5 stack railshot) it can easily blow away over half the mercs healthbar.

 

Easy to do because dodge isn't very visible unlike the MASSIVE GLOWING SHIELD which is mercs 50% reflect.

 

well i just got hit for a 29K heatseeker crit on my sorc so it isnt the reflect........

[yellow_]

well i just got hit for a 29K heatseeker crit on my sorc so it isnt the reflect........

autocrit heatseekers can hit every class for 30k

 

26k heatseeker x 1.5 from the operative reflect = 39K

 

it was the reflect, this thread can be closed

[Zolxtren]

autocrit heatseekers can hit every class for 30k

 

26k heatseeker x 1.5 from the operative reflect = 39K

 

it was the reflect, this thread can be closed

 

thats SCREAMS broken and needs a nerf seriously....

[DerSchneider]

thats SCREAMS broken and needs a nerf seriously....

 

shhhh, people are still sure that operatives are weak in ranked.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

autocrit heatseekers can hit every class for 30k

 

26k heatseeker x 1.5 from the operative reflect = 39K

 

it was the reflect, this thread can be closed

 

I had the same exact thing happen to me once and I originally thought the same exact thing at first and I posted it with a similar query and the same thing was pointed out to me because it was listed as 39k Dodge [ I didn't take the reflect x1.5 into account at first]

[LanternsUnite]

thats SCREAMS broken and needs a nerf seriously....

 

So a 150% reflect on only force/tech damage for 3 seconds is broken? Just wanna point out that if you're dumb enough to tunnel into a reflect with all of your burst (regardless of timing or anything at all), that's not a class balancing issue. It's a learn-to-play issue. A reflect is only punishing if the attacking player attacks into said defense. It's not something that will just damage the player regardless. There's way around it. I.e., stop attacking and go hit someone else, heal yourself, kite till it's over, OR use white damage (even though it won't do anything since evasion is 200% chance to dodge melee and range abilities) because it's a force/tech ONLY reflect.

 

We need to waste a utility into that and even then, it's not that much big of a game changer unless you're going against someone that is so predictable or just idiotic even to tunnel you despite whatever cooldowns you have up. But, it's not even remotely close to broken in this day and age. Wanna know what screams broken and needs to be nerfed? Mercs' 3 DCDs that heal to full practically unless you stop attacking or AoE (then it's only 1), they're insane damage burst (besides PTs, they're burst is devasting, beyond that of a perfectly timed Op's burst), Corruption Sorcs, Mara's 70% resistance to force/tech damage with Obfuscate with the RA utility (making it practically a DCD, resisting 70% of yellow damage from all enemy players and making your target not be able to damage you because of accuracy debuff), etc.

 

TL;DR: Operatives have NOTHING that can be even be considered to be overpowered in this current meta and any person who thinks otherwise has never played against good Mercs or snipers (and for the record, judging a class based on 1v1 results in a game that's focused around team based play isn't relevant).

Edited June 14, 2017 by LanternsUnite

[Thaladan]

maybe be 30% of the time invulnerable (for concealment spec) seems an enough matter to say that ops are broken? Edited June 14, 2017 by Thaladan

[slashbrant]

maybe be 30% of the time invulnerable (for concealment spec) seems an enough matter to say that ops are broken?

 

Like roll has no downsides? well, apart from that it uses a gcd but nvm that.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

So a 150% reflect on only force/tech damage for 3 seconds is broken? Just wanna point out that if you're dumb enough to tunnel into a reflect with all of your burst (regardless of timing or anything at all), that's not a class balancing issue. It's a learn-to-play issue. A reflect is only punishing if the attacking player attacks into said defense. It's not something that will just damage the player regardless. There's way around it. I.e., stop attacking and go hit someone else, heal yourself, kite till it's over, OR use white damage (even though it won't do anything since evasion is 200% chance to dodge melee and range abilities) because it's a force/tech ONLY reflect.

 

We need to waste a utility into that and even then, it's not that much big of a game changer unless you're going against someone that is so predictable or just idiotic even to tunnel you despite whatever cooldowns you have up. But, it's not even remotely close to broken in this day and age. Wanna know what screams broken and needs to be nerfed? Mercs' 3 DCDs that heal to full practically unless you stop attacking or AoE (then it's only 1), they're insane damage burst (besides PTs, they're burst is devasting, beyond that of a perfectly timed Op's burst), Corruption Sorcs, Mara's 70% resistance to force/tech damage with Obfuscate with the RA utility (making it practically a DCD, resisting 70% of yellow damage from all enemy players and making your target not be able to damage you because of accuracy debuff), etc.

 

TL;DR: Operatives have NOTHING that can be even be considered to be overpowered in this current meta and any person who thinks otherwise has never played against good Mercs or snipers (and for the record, judging a class based on 1v1 results in a game that's focused around team based play isn't relevant).

 

 

I don't think their 3 second reflect makes them OP.

 

At the same time, it is idiocy to think that a player will be able to react fast enough so as to not put any burst into it before pulling back. That's not going to happen most of the time, and that's not L2P, that's not having the reflexes of a cat. Half the time, you don't even know who your fighting immediately with all the sucker punching cowardly stealth classes cold clocking you out of no where, in addition to whomever you were already fighting before the cowaredly clocker decieded to double-team you [or triple team you].

 

I have nothing against Operatives, they're no more cowardly than any other stealth class. [Although I don't think a healer should be able to turn invisible whenever they want].

 

Stating that people are at fault for hitting into a reflect the second it is activated is moronic. It is impossible to be looking at all things at all times, you cannot simply stare at buff bars, if you do, you'll miss the corner of a plasma probe circle, an enemy tucked in title to a nearby nook, your healer that's getting triple teamed, the current level of your health, one of your cooldowns, and any number of important things.

 

People are going to hit into reflects sometimes when they first are activated, and that is not something that is avoidable all the time or even most of the time. So that defense is not more sound than when mercs say it. I'm not saying it's OP [in the Operatives case] because it has such a short duration, but that short duration in some ways makes it more likely they get the most out of it when compared to a mercs longer lasting one which thus gives the attacker more time to pull back before it's duration runs out.

 

Furthermore, comparing the DCDs of classes that do not have any self heals whatsoover as a means of making cause in the defense of your own is even stupider than thinking people who accidentally hit a reflect the second it's activated is a L2P issue.

 

I happen to love Operatives, they make the best allies and I'm always happy to have one or more on my team. I do not see them as OP, cowardly, yes, but not OP. I think their ability to stun lock repeatedly in some instances is a bit excessive and there might be some consideration given to that in future balancing, but even with that I do not consider them OP. But honestly, if you can heal yourself, turn invisible, have perma stealth and can CC everyone into oblivion [a slight exaggeration =p] you can't really complain about survivability. It may have effects on your DPS out put, yes, but even still, that doesn't change the fact they and other perma stealth classes have "you can't kill me buttons", that may mean they can't kill you either, but some of us are measured by our killing output, not our survival, so different standards do apply.

 

I find the accusation that their 3 second dodge reflect makes them OP equally stupid. It's a big hit, yeah, but I'm dropping 26k-31k Devastating blasts, followed by 23k VTs, followed by 20k Gores with 100% armor penetration every 10 seconds or so, that rare 29k reflect is as good as they're gonna do, and it's partially your damage too boot. That doesn't seem overly unreasonable considering mercs are dropping 35k Heatseekers like their M&Ms on Holloween and Snipers can turn my above mentioned Ferocity Window damage total to 15k total.

 

There are bigger fish to fry than Operatives. They're more annoying as all shiz than anything else for the most part.

Edited June 14, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[QuiveringPotato]

it was the reflect you mong

 

god it's so ironic to see mercs complaining about watching out for other class' DCDs

 

also, if you hard stun the operative during the evasion, the 200% dodge buff goes away, you can stun > railshot/unload into evasion

Edited June 15, 2017 by QuiveringPotato

[Gyronamics]

it was the reflect you mong

 

god it's so ironic to see mercs complaining about watching out for other class' DCDs

 

also, if you hard stun the operative during the evasion, the 200% dodge buff goes away, you can stun > railshot/unload into evasion

 

Check out the pent up anger escaping from this guy.

 

Because the OP isn't in that video, it's someone elses

[Kirpputori]

Kek

Merc has 6s reflect with absorb and healing on it -> solution "just don't attack him" and let him free cast biggest burst in game to you

Oper has 3s reflect (on utility choice) with no absorb nor healing "it's too op, nerf it" and while at it, nerf roll and the op annoying knife attack dmg too

 

Y'all just need to l2p

 

Tfw trash player like me needs to tell others to l2p NotLikeThis

[benmas]

here we go again another #nerfoperatives thread

[-Bob-]

So, i didnt go to the gym today. I wanted to but after job #2 this morning i was too tired. I opted for a shower and a 2 hour nap before enjoying the rest of my day off. I've played the game off and on today but i haven't played my operative in several months.

[VixenRawR]

Yeah nerf ops and annoying spammy knifey attacks. Down with operatives.

 

Wow its letting me post my sub ended 4 days ago

[mmmbuddah]

thats SCREAMS broken and needs a nerf seriously....

 

Operative players say operatives are fine no matter how OP some of their utilities are. They were fine before they got that reflect, and now since dodge is pretty much always readily available, combined with the roll and their off heals and burst, makes them downright ridiculous in a 1 v 1 situation.

[mmmbuddah]

(and for the record, judging a class based on 1v1 results in a game that's focused around team based play isn't relevant).

 

Actually, 1 v 1s happen in pvp, they do, have and will always happen, so 1 v 1 balance is actually important, and right now ops are only second to mercs, and even then I would say ops are better than mercs when it comes to a 1 v 1 situation. Mercs have some ridiculous dcds, but they have long cd's. Operatives on the other hand have invincibility every 20 seconds, 2 dot purges, decent off heals , stealth disengage, a reflect for tech and force WHILE having complete immunity to ranged and melee, a decent absorb shield probe, a ludicrous amount of stuns and roots, ops are on their way to being op AF. I have played a scoundrel all of maybe a week a while back as dps, and it is an absolute joke how easy they are to use. At least their burst spec is.

[J_McSkill]

Just to inform you guys, since the Merc and Sniper buffs, Ops are no longer the 1v1 champs... The last few dueling tournaments (with guys who know how to play their class) both Mercs and Snipers have finished higher than Ops. So what this means is if your Merc got owned by an Op it's truly a learn to play issue and not an OMG Ops are so overpowered.

[Lundorff]

Actually, 1 v 1s happen in pvp, they do, have and will always happen, so 1 v 1 balance is actually important, and right now ops are only second to mercs, and even then I would say ops are better than mercs when it comes to a 1 v 1 situation.

 

Yes a 1 vs. 1 situation can happen at nodes, and that is when you call for backup. Only bad or new players will ever allow for an extended period of 1 vs. 1. Only once in a blue moon would a 1 vs. 1 situation with an op happen in ranked. Furthermore, ops are only good at 1 vs. 1 if they have all the time in the world, but that is seldom the case, and by forcing the op to stay in the match and actually semi face-tank damage, you are crippling them immensely. In theory they are possible the best at 1 vs. 1, but in practice they are quite atrocious, as time is a factor.

 

 

Mercs have some ridiculous dcds, but they have long cd's.

 

Are you actually trying to downplay merc DCD even if they are "long"?

 

 

Operatives on the other hand have invincibility every 20 seconds

 

I assume you mean roll which can be countered by net, stun etc. And how much damage can an op do while rolling compared to, say, HO on mercs? Right.

 

 

2 dot purges, decent off heals

 

As I have written before, the probes are terrible at healing in this burst meta, and the primary reason for using them is the 6% DR. That means we constantly need to keep them up, and I wish you best of luck, should you be stunned without them. The actual heal ability requires a TA, and that we stand still, and is weak beyond belief. Only lethality can really make it work with the auto-proc on roll. The heal on countermeasures is the only actual heal that works, but it's way to slow if you are being focused, and it can not be used while stunned. I would GLADLY exchange both heals for the merc heals - one instant and 2 that can be spammed.

 

 

stealth disengage

 

Yes, it's a stealth class, but don't worry, you can just net us and prevent us from stealthing out.

 

 

a reflect for tech and force WHILE having complete immunity to ranged and melee

 

Only new and experimenting ops would ever take reflect over heal or 20% DR on SB. At most it's a "ha ha i relfectz ur a**"-ability and 3 seconds after we are dead.

 

 

a decent absorb shield probe

 

Ha ha ha ha....

 

 

a ludicrous amount of stuns and roots

 

Sin have more stuns / slows / roots. Juggernaut tanks have better combat stuns + aoe stun + slow etc.. It's a MYTH that ops are these endless stunning machines that roll around, laughing, never taking damage and stabbing everyone.

 

 

I have played a scoundrel all of maybe a week a while back as dps,

 

Yes and it shows. You have zero clue what you are talking about, and this is the primary reason why developers should never listen to all of us forum warriors. There should be a minimum level of experience before you are even allowed to voice an opinion on class changes.

[Ibokagain]

So a 150% reflect on only force/tech damage for 3 seconds is broken? Just wanna point out that if you're dumb enough to tunnel into a reflect with all of your burst (regardless of timing or anything at all), that's not a class balancing issue. It's a learn-to-play issue. A reflect is only punishing if the attacking player attacks into said defense. It's not something that will just damage the player regardless. There's way around it. I.e., stop attacking and go hit someone else, heal yourself, kite till it's over, OR use white damage (even though it won't do anything since evasion is 200% chance to dodge melee and range abilities) because it's a force/tech ONLY reflect.

 

We need to waste a utility into that and even then, it's not that much big of a game changer unless you're going against someone that is so predictable or just idiotic even to tunnel you despite whatever cooldowns you have up. But, it's not even remotely close to broken in this day and age. Wanna know what screams broken and needs to be nerfed? Mercs' 3 DCDs that heal to full practically unless you stop attacking or AoE (then it's only 1), they're insane damage burst (besides PTs, they're burst is devasting, beyond that of a perfectly timed Op's burst), Corruption Sorcs, Mara's 70% resistance to force/tech damage with Obfuscate with the RA utility (making it practically a DCD, resisting 70% of yellow damage from all enemy players and making your target not be able to damage you because of accuracy debuff), etc.

 

TL;DR: Operatives have NOTHING that can be even be considered to be overpowered in this current meta and any person who thinks otherwise has never played against good Mercs or snipers (and for the record, judging a class based on 1v1 results in a game that's focused around team based play isn't relevant).

 

 

Perfectly stated, I couldn't of said this any better.

 

It reminds me of this

Edited June 15, 2017 by Ibokagain

[Ibokagain]

I don't think their 3 second reflect makes them OP.

 

At the same time, it is idiocy to think that a player will be able to react fast enough so as to not put any burst into it before pulling back. That's not going to happen most of the time, and that's not L2P, that's not having the reflexes of a cat. Half the time, you don't even know who your fighting immediately with all the sucker punching cowardly stealth classes cold clocking you out of no where, in addition to whomever you were already fighting before the cowaredly clocker decieded to double-team you [or triple team you].

 

I have nothing against Operatives, they're no more cowardly than any other stealth class. [Although I don't think a healer should be able to turn invisible whenever they want].

 

Stating that people are at fault for hitting into a reflect the second it is activated is moronic. It is impossible to be looking at all things at all times, you cannot simply stare at buff bars, if you do, you'll miss the corner of a plasma probe circle, an enemy tucked in title to a nearby nook, your healer that's getting triple teamed, the current level of your health, one of your cooldowns, and any number of important things.

 

People are going to hit into reflects sometimes when they first are activated, and that is not something that is avoidable all the time or even most of the time. So that defense is not more sound than when mercs say it. I'm not saying it's OP [in the Operatives case] because it has such a short duration, but that short duration in some ways makes it more likely they get the most out of it when compared to a mercs longer lasting one which thus gives the attacker more time to pull back before it's duration runs out.

 

Furthermore, comparing the DCDs of classes that do not have any self heals whatsoover as a means of making cause in the defense of your own is even stupider than thinking people who accidentally hit a reflect the second it's activated is a L2P issue.

 

I happen to love Operatives, they make the best allies and I'm always happy to have one or more on my team. I do not see them as OP, cowardly, yes, but not OP. I think their ability to stun lock repeatedly in some instances is a bit excessive and there might be some consideration given to that in future balancing, but even with that I do not consider them OP. But honestly, if you can heal yourself, turn invisible, have perma stealth and can CC everyone into oblivion [a slight exaggeration =p] you can't really complain about survivability. It may have effects on your DPS out put, yes, but even still, that doesn't change the fact they and other perma stealth classes have "you can't kill me buttons", that may mean they can't kill you either, but some of us are measured by our killing output, not our survival, so different standards do apply.

 

I find the accusation that their 3 second dodge reflect makes them OP equally stupid. It's a big hit, yeah, but I'm dropping 26k-31k Devastating blasts, followed by 23k VTs, followed by 20k Gores with 100% armor penetration every 10 seconds or so, that rare 29k reflect is as good as they're gonna do, and it's partially your damage too boot. That doesn't seem overly unreasonable considering mercs are dropping 35k Heatseekers like their M&Ms on Holloween and Snipers can turn my above mentioned Ferocity Window damage total to 15k total.

 

There are bigger fish to fry than Operatives. They're more annoying as all shiz than anything else for the most part.

 

Stick to your mara if you can't play the stealth class since they are so "cowardly" ah I can't stop laughing thanks man.