Juggernaut DPS not getting class changes according to roadmap...

[Romeugues]

Please, shut the **** up. Juggernauts have been getting buffs since 3.0 all the way to 4.0. Enough. They are giving perfect class balancing by not touching it.

 

You mad bruh?

[Glocko]

I would be fine with no changes to Jugg as long as they nerf Marauder and OP a considerable amount

[RACATW]

Mara/op are not a problem in the slightest, both are squishy with significantly long cd windows on their defensives. It's the snipers and mercs who need a nerf. Edited June 3, 2017 by RACATW

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Mara/op are not a problem in the slightest, both are squishy with significantly long cd windows on their defensives. It's the snipers and mercs who need a nerf.

 

All classes should be as balanced as Marauders currently are. I've seen a lot of posts people saying that Marauders are balanced well. They are the only DPS specs without self heals. With 3 minute cooldowns on two of their main DCDs, they end up spending about 65-70% of the time of your average WZ without any active DCD. The DCDs are great, they just can't hope to cover you in the long run. With a decent healer in their group they can survive pretty well if not under focus from the firing squads. Without a healer, those DCDs will not save you. Take Undying Rage for example, quite possibly the best DCD in the game [not counting mercs/snipers], 99% damage reduction, just wow! But, that lasts for 4 seconds, than goes on CD for 3 minutes! Clearly a mitigating factor.

 

If you can't heal yourself and pretty much all of your enemies can, good DPS is the only thing you have in your favor.

 

I think if they can reel in Mercs and Snipers, a lot of issues many people have in PVP will improve, and at very least that would be the best way of seeing where the other classes actually stand, than you can go from there seeing if anyone else needs some trimming. Just for the record, I don't think that Merc and Sniper DPS should be lowered.

 

As for OPs - I fail to see why Ops should be given any thought of trimming for. They can be annoying as all hell with their CC kit, but it's not like they are the last man standing in a field of bodies that they just finished slaying! heh. Yeah, you sure as hell don't want to 1v1 them if you aren't an OP yourself or an Assy, but OPs and Assys are the best duelers in the game. That's nothing new.

 

As for Juggs, I think I said it earlier, but I'm not sure, but I think that Juggs should be given Force Camo like their Sith Warrior cousins have. That would help some with anti-focus as well as mobility. It should be an add on, not a trade, they shouldn't lose anything in the process. Just like both Maras and Juggs have sweeping slash, VT [least they did, I'm not sure if all the specs had that replaced], Ravage, and Saber Ward, it wouldn't be a far stretch in credibility to throw them Force Camo.

Edited June 3, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[RACATW]

Mara/op are not a problem in the slightest, both are squishy with significantly long cd windows on their defensives. It's the snipers and mercs who need a nerf. Edited June 3, 2017 by RACATW

[Seterade]

Mara/op are not a problem in the slightest, both are squishy with significantly long cd windows on their defensives. It's the snipers and mercs who need a nerf.

lulz... ops do not have long cd windows. roll is on 10 sec. dodge is on a "every att decres cd by 3 secs" cd, shield probe is on 30 sec, and debilitate is a 30 sec cd. (for those who say debilitate is a 40 sec cd, you need to redo your utilitys.)

[RACATW]

lulz... ops do not have long cd windows. roll is on 10 sec. dodge is on a "every att decres cd by 3 secs" cd, shield probe is on 30 sec, and debilitate is a 30 sec cd. (for those who say debilitate is a 40 sec cd, you need to redo your utilitys.)

 

That's why you hard stun them before or after their rolls are up then use your burst if it's white. Ops/maras die much, much faster than a sniper or merc. There's plenty of time to whittle their hp completely down after their rolls are exhausted, after all they aren't going to h2f suddenly or pop an invincible "you can't touch me at all" dcd or brb regaining 10% of my hp while I kite you.

Edited June 3, 2017 by RACATW

[Savej]

Season 2 or 3, in solo ranked, juggs were very highly ranked That was right after they got their super ED and before the nerf to it. Every other season has had juggs #7 or #8 in the ratings with the disparity being most visible when comparing the top 5 or 10% of each class. The best skankers were not competitive with the best from all other ACs.

 

Juggs have enough abilities, enough buttons to push, but the cds on several of them are too long.

[VixenRawR]

That's why you hard stun them before or after their rolls are up then use your burst if it's white. Ops/maras die much, much faster than a sniper or merc. There's plenty of time to whittle their hp completely down after their rolls are exhausted, after all they aren't going to h2f suddenly or pop an invincible "you can't touch me at all" dcd or brb regaining 10% of my hp while I kite you.

 

Not to mention if you just root operatives they are a sitting duck. Roll is is a double edge sword dcd. It prevents dmg, but also prevents dealing dmg. People complain about it to much but it's not as great. I would almost rather have real dcds on an op.

 

I always here people say "Don't attack the merc when it has energy shield or reflect up so they don't heal. The same applies to op roll. Why do people keep attacking it while it rolls?

[Seterade]

Not to mention if you just root operatives they are a sitting duck. Roll is is a double edge sword dcd. It prevents dmg, but also prevents dealing dmg. People complain about it to much but it's not as great. I would almost rather have real dcds on an op.

 

I always here people say "Don't attack the merc when it has energy shield or reflect up so they don't heal. The same applies to op roll. Why do people keep attacking it while it rolls?

Why I att the roll is because 1: the first roll is a surprise. you have to cut your rotation. 2: it looks the same as "dodge" 3: (this combines with point 2) there is a point after each roll where they continue to have a .5? or 1 sec? resist, in which they can burst you. Also. a move that cuts all rotations an procs every ten seconds does a hell of lot more then your giving it credit for. Ironically the players who the suffers the most vs op roll are players who know their rotation back to front, an it gets screwed to hell every 10 seconds.

Edited June 3, 2017 by Seterade

[RACATW]

If you know they have roll up then don't use your real rotation until you hard stun. Just use fillers or quick cd burst.

[DerSchneider]

Please, shut the **** up. Juggernauts have been getting buffs since 3.0 all the way to 4.0. Enough. They are giving perfect class balancing by not touching it.

 

That's probably why hatred assassins and sorcs were top tier during 3.0-5.0.

Also the only thing juggs got in 4.0 was stealth ravage nerf.

Edited June 3, 2017 by DerSchneider

[stoopicus]

Honestly, to fix Jugg DPS, this is all that is needed:

 

1. Make Invincible a class skill. Give Immortal some protection or taunt based cooldown to take its place.

2. Make Invincible usable while stunned, maybe replacing a current utility to do this.

3. Replace a current utility with one that applies all of ED's potential healing on activation, and later removes it if you don't actually take the damage you would have needed to take to get it, much like how Endure Pain works.

 

That's it. That will fix Rage and Vengeance DPS. It might even be OP.

Edited June 4, 2017 by stoopicus

[Seterade]

 

2. Replace a current utility with one that applies all of ED's potential healing on activation, and later removes it if you don't actually take the damage you would have needed to take to get it.

 

Pretty sure this is already a cd. increases max hp by like 20% or something for a limited time.

[stoopicus]

Pretty sure this is already a cd. increases max hp by like 20% or something for a limited time.

 

That's a different DCD (Endure Pain) and what I used as a model for that. This would essentially be a utility making ED operate like Endure Pain (except with ED's cooldown and usability while stunned). Edited for clarity.

 

The other thing I was thinking was that for Immortal, keep Threatening Scream like it is, but for Vengeance and Rage, flip it so the damage reduction only applies to enemies attacking you. But that seems pretty OP without nerfing its CD, which would be horrible for Immortal - it would be the same as increasing Veng DR by 30% for 33% of the time or so. Too strong (if the other changes are made.)

Edited June 4, 2017 by stoopicus

[Alterkai]

thank you! finally someone brought this problem up, we probably need to nerf merc a little bit, but for dps jugg, since 4.0 its getting unplayable and worse in 5.0. dot stuff is getting useless in front of other class..... my poor vengeance jugg Edited June 4, 2017 by Alterkai

[Janglor]

DPS jugg currently is a dumpster fire. I have zero faith in the development team or whatever is left of them to fix it without completely *********** up something else.

[KendraP]

Did I just read someone recommending to make our taunt a DCD? While I would like there to be a point to tanking again in regs I do not want to be the only tank capable class that can't taunt in dps spec. Whether people believe it or not, if you can survive long enough, you can do decent damage. Even in vigi. Thas just a big "if".

 

And of course this would kill pve where I frequently act as an off taunt or fake tank stuff in sm ops when the group I'm in is hurting for dps. Yes I wish I was kidding, but I've had groups enrage the droid boss in ev in sm. I swapped to dps spec and we killed it. I had no issues keeping aggro so the dps must have been horrible. So in summary please don't kill my utility.

 

Also as I feel like I keep repeating myself but the issue with Guardian dps is not actually dps. It's survivability.

[merovejec]

Offtopic, thnx for some people to actually defending the "low rating" ppl. Just now I lost a ranked wz where on the other team one guy left/dced. We were 3vs4 (2d 1h, 3d 1h). I did 1,2mil dmg other 2 sentinels did 700k each. Healer was good, but tell me, what can you do more?

 

Its RNG on who you get in group

Edited June 4, 2017 by merovejec

[stoopicus]

Did I just read someone recommending to make our taunt a DCD? While I would like there to be a point to tanking again in regs I do not want to be the only tank capable class that can't taunt in dps spec. Whether people believe it or not, if you can survive long enough, you can do decent damage. Even in vigi. Thas just a big "if".

 

And of course this would kill pve where I frequently act as an off taunt or fake tank stuff in sm ops when the group I'm in is hurting for dps. Yes I wish I was kidding, but I've had groups enrage the droid boss in ev in sm. I swapped to dps spec and we killed it. I had no issues keeping aggro so the dps must have been horrible. So in summary please don't kill my utility.

 

Also as I feel like I keep repeating myself but the issue with Guardian dps is not actually dps. It's survivability.

 

 

So this post is kind of funny. On one hand, you're saying "Our only problem is survivability!" (which I agree with), and on the other, "But I need to be able to taunt things to attack me!".

 

In any case the change that I had said I was thinking about there is too powerful anyway. I just find it funny that you complained about survivability and also complained about an idea that would have given you a 30% DR boost for 33% of the time (at the cost of taunting) in the same post

Edited June 5, 2017 by stoopicus

[mmmbuddah]

Yea, but powertechs are listed in the roadmap. Jugg dps is the only spec that is currently not viable and that isn't getting changes.

 

Powertechs need it far FAR more than any other class / spec in the game. Pyro is -literally- useless, even when optimized and left to free cast, their defensives are non existant, and their self heals are pitiful. Been the most useless spec for a very long time now, and before BW balances ANYTHING, tat should be the very first thing addressed.

[Zolxtren]

Powertechs need it far FAR more than any other class / spec in the game. Pyro is -literally- useless, even when optimized and left to free cast, their defensives are non existant, and their self heals are pitiful. Been the most useless spec for a very long time now, and before BW balances ANYTHING, tat should be the very first thing addressed.

 

Lighting Sorc says hi......................

[DerSchneider]

Powertechs need it far FAR more than any other class / spec in the game. Pyro is -literally- useless, even when optimized and left to free cast, their defensives are non existant, and their self heals are pitiful. Been the most useless spec for a very long time now, and before BW balances ANYTHING, tat should be the very first thing addressed.

 

Did I ever said that PT doesn't need a buff?

[Glocko]

Easy to tell that Jugg needs a Buff before any class:

 

Who should you attack first in an Arena?

 

Healer - No

Most Dangerous DPS - No

 

You attack the Jugg DPS..... That is wahy we knew Merc was broke it does not make any sense. Let's take out the DPS that is at the bottom of the DPS charts first.... Least Dps + Least Survivability = needs immediate buff

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Easy to tell that Jugg needs a Buff before any class:

 

Who should you attack first in an Arena?

 

Healer - No

Most Dangerous DPS - No

 

You attack the Jugg DPS..... That is wahy we knew Merc was broke it does not make any sense. Let's take out the DPS that is at the bottom of the DPS charts first.... Least Dps + Least Survivability = needs immediate buff

 

What do Lightning Sorcs and MM snipers have to do with Juggs? Lightning Sorcs and MM snipers have the lowest DPS in the game.

 

Just in case you have an old version of the DPS chart, the following one is current as of 5.0. Juggs have far more DPS than many others, the lowest DPS spec for Juggs comes in at Rank 11 out of 18. There is even one Marauder spec that comes in lower than them. Both PT dps specs come in lower than Juggs as well.

 

Rank - DPS+-StdDev - vs Average (9991) DPS --- Imperial - Republic

01 - 10754+-322 - +7.64% --- Operative-Lethality || Scoundrel-Ruffian

02 - 10467+-161 - +4.77% --- Sniper-Virulence || Gunslinger-Dirty Fighting

03 - 10441+-270 - +4.51% --- Sniper-Engineering || Gunslinger-Saboteur

04 - 10432+-414 - +4.42% --- Mercenary-Innovative Ordinance || Commando-Assault Specialist

05 - 10336+-284 - +3.46% --- Marauder-Annihilation || Sentinel-Watchman

06 - 10157+-526 - +1.67% --- Operative-Concealment || Scoundrel-Scrapper

07 - 10157+-582 - +1.67% --- Assassin-Deception || Shadow-Infiltration

08 - 10150+-299 - +1.60% --- Marauder-Carnage || Sentinel-Combat

09 - 10054+-516 - +0.63% --- Mercenary-Arsenal || Commando-Gunnery

10 - 10027+-372 - +0.36% --- Juggernaut-Vengeance || Guardian-Vigilance

11 - 9857+-488 - -1.33% --- Juggernaut-Rage || Guardian-Focus

12 - 9828+-351 - -1.62% --- Marauder-Fury || Sentinel-Concentration

13 - 9679+-505 - -3.12% --- Powertech-Advanced Prototype || Vanguard-Tactics

14 - 9640+-346 - -3.51% --- Assassin-Hatred || Shadow-Serenity

15 - 9556+-383 - -4.35% --- Powertech-Pyrotech || Vanguard-Plasmatech

16 - 9520+-268 - -4.71% --- Sorcerer-Madness || Sage-Balance

17 - 9448+-461 - -5.43% --- Sniper-Marksman || Gunslinger-Sharpshooter

18 - 9327+-304 - -6.64% --- Sorcerer-Lightning || Sage-Telekinetics

Edited June 5, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx