Vote With Your Wallet: Boycott Cartel Packs!

[AscendingSky]

You mean WE would have to exhibit self restraint? Why can't Bioware just fix it for us, so we only get what we want?

 

The concept is so simple, yet so completely lost on some folk. The best is when you have people buying 4+ hypercrates, who then complain about drop rates. I mean...really?!

 

Exactly. I don't like the drop rates of packs, I don't think they're a good value for your money... so I don't buy them. I don't keep buying the same gamble packs with the same crap drop rates hoping my experience will improve. As they say, the definition of insanity is taking the exact same actions while expecting a different result.

 

I'm only now encouraging other people to boycott them because I want to stop and potentially reverse the ongoing decline of the worth of the packs to the majority of players. The people running this game have no reason to change their anti-consumer practices unless their consumers show their displeasure in the only way that will register to the corporate suits. Money speaks the only language EAWare understands.

Edited May 18, 2017 by AscendingSky

[tummiswtor]

I started this thread because I think all players of TOR deserve a better value for their real world money.

 

You always know what players want. Who told you this pack got poor value items for real money?

I like Flair and Mandalorian armor. Gurian mount seems as new and original.

Stop say "all players". If they get less money for pack than usually, they will change something.

Edited May 18, 2017 by tummiswtor

[Andryah]

You always know what players want. Who told you this pack got poor value items for real money?

I like Flair and Mandalorian armor. Gurian mount seems as new and original.

Stop say "all players". If they get less money for pack than usually, they will change something.

 

Agree.

 

Besides.. didn't he admit he does not chase cartel packs anyway. Which means this does not actually concern him (other then his pejorative views about the game and the studio in general), but he wants to try to stir up some form of insurgent behavior within a wide and diverse player base... which is hilarious. It does make a good "bash the studio" schtick though.. so I give him credit for that.

 

I don't buy packs and never have. But I also do not begrudge players who enjoy them and chase after them. That is the nature of MMOs.... different players like and do different things. Nobody is forced to buy the packs and they serve no purpose other then cosmetics.... so if people like them.. then buy them.. and if they don't like them, simply do not buy them. Supply and demand will sort itself out naturally with this.... so there is no need to try to organize a faux uprising in the player base.

Edited May 18, 2017 by Andryah

[JediQuaker]

A couple of things:

 

I like opening packs for grins. As a subscriber, I get 500 CC per month which I'm happy to waste on packs.

 

It cost $20 to buy 2400 CC, With 2400 CC I can buy 2 x 5-packs and have CC left over to unlock things. That's only $2 per pack. I personally don't think that's a lot of money. You can easily spend $20 just to go to a movie (and buy snacks) for 1.5-2.0 hours of entertainment. You can spend a lot more than that to go to a concert by the latest money-grubbing pop artist.

What does it cost to go to the Indy 500 and watch cars go 'round 'n 'round for a couple of hours?

 

It's all a matter of perspective, but if $20 is a lot of money to you, don't spend it. For many of us, $20 is cheap - so don't get on here thinking you speak for everyone.

 

P.S. I just opened 10 of the new packs. I got the blue crystal I wanted plus the Gurian mount, plus the big ape like mount, plus some nice decorations. I'm happy with that.

Edited May 18, 2017 by JediQuaker

[Soljin]

Leaving supply and demand to work this issue out is great...For Eaware who can actually completely control supply and demand and manipulate it at will.... Edited May 18, 2017 by Soljin

[DarthDymond]

A couple of things:

 

I like opening packs for grins. As a subscriber, I get 500 CC per month which I'm happy to waste on packs.

 

It cost $20 to buy 2400 CC, With 2400 CC I can buy 2 x 5-packs and have CC left over to unlock things. That's only $2 per pack. I personally don't think that's a lot of money. You can easily spend $20 just to go to a movie (and buy snacks) for 1.5-2.0 hours of entertainment. You can spend a lot more than that to go to a concert by the latest money-grubbing pop artist.

What does it cost to go to the Indy 500 and watch cars go 'round 'n 'round for a couple of hours?

 

It's all a matter of perspective, but if $20 is a lot of money to you, don't spend it. For many of us, $20 is cheap - so don't get on here thinking you speak for everyone.

 

P.S. I just opened 10 of the new packs. I got the blue crystal I wanted plus the Gurian mount, plus the big ape like mount, plus some nice decorations. I'm happy with that.

When did anyone say they're prohibitively expensive? The opinion being put forward behind OP's call for a boycott is that BW is cutting back on the content provided in the Packs, relative to earlier ones, while keeping the price they're charging for them the same.

Edited May 18, 2017 by DarthDymond

[Soljin]

Actually his post was more of a personal attack on me than him actually expressing an opinion on the packs. I don't have a problem with other people debating with me. Sharing points of view is good! However, I do have an issue with personal attacks and strawman arguments.

 

No...Not really. I hardly personally attacked you...

[AscendingSky]

No...Not really. I hardly personally attacked you...

 

No no, I didn't mean you, I meant the guy calling me a 'hypocrite' because I'm advocating a boycott against the packs but I'm not helping him plead his case to EAWare that we need Obi-Wan's robes in the game. You're good, mate.

[AscendingSky]

Is his use of the term "all players" THAT bothersome to you? He's free to continue saying ALL PLAYERS and you have no right to suggest he shouldn't...it is HIS opinion that ALL PLAYERS deserve better. You don't need to agree, but to whine about his use of the term "all players" is as petty as it gets.

 

Apparently thinking people should get more for their money is a bad thing somehow? I mean, wouldn't the people who buy cartel packs be happier if they got more items in the packs? I'm scratching my head at that guy's logic.

 

Not to mention he admits my argument is right, by saying:

 

If they get less money for pack than usually, they will change something.

 

That's the whole point of the boycott! Voting with your wallet!

 

I swear, some people are so silly, or so intent on making personal attacks, that they don't even address what you're actually saying...

Edited May 18, 2017 by AscendingSky

[SithKoriandr]

People have to not buy them on the GTN as well for this to work. Some people will buy them just to sell them for in game credits with those buying them on the GTN thinking "I'm not supporting them, because I buy them with in game credits"

[AscendingSky]

When did anyone say they're prohibitively expensive? The opinion being put forward behind OP's call for a boycott is that BW is cutting back on the content provided in the Packs, relative to earlier ones, while keeping the price they're charging for them the same.

 

Yes, exactly, thank you! When so many people are trying to twist my words to push their own agendas or just attack me personally, it's nice to know some people are actually reading what I'm posting and get what my actual point of view is. Internet cookies for you!

[AscendingSky]

People have to not buy them on the GTN as well for this to work. Some people will buy them just to sell them for in game credits with those buying them on the GTN thinking "I'm not supporting them, because I buy them with in game credits"

 

Yes, which is why in my original post, I said people shouldn't buy them for credits either, since all those packs had to be bought with real money first and paying credits for them encourages the resellers...

[DarthDymond]

No...Not really. I hardly personally attacked you...

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick here - the "personal attack" AscendingSky was talking about was when tummiswtor called AscendingSky a "hypocrite" - the post you quoted earlier was the personal attack, not your response to that quote.

Edited May 18, 2017 by DarthDymond

[AscendingSky]

A couple of things:

 

I like opening packs for grins. As a subscriber, I get 500 CC per month which I'm happy to waste on packs.

 

It cost $20 to buy 2400 CC, With 2400 CC I can buy 2 x 5-packs and have CC left over to unlock things. That's only $2 per pack. I personally don't think that's a lot of money. You can easily spend $20 just to go to a movie (and buy snacks) for 1.5-2.0 hours of entertainment. You can spend a lot more than that to go to a concert by the latest money-grubbing pop artist.

What does it cost to go to the Indy 500 and watch cars go 'round 'n 'round for a couple of hours?

 

It's all a matter of perspective, but if $20 is a lot of money to you, don't spend it. For many of us, $20 is cheap - so don't get on here thinking you speak for everyone.

 

P.S. I just opened 10 of the new packs. I got the blue crystal I wanted plus the Gurian mount, plus the big ape like mount, plus some nice decorations. I'm happy with that.

 

When did I say that packs were prohibitively expensive? Where did I say $20 was a lot of money? Oh, right, I didn't... might want to re-read some posts there, friend!

 

What I am actually saying is that EAWare keeps reducing the value and amount of contents in the packs while keeping the price the same. At the same time, they're eliminating the category of items with cheap unlocks, to nickle and dime more money out of players. I find both of these practices anti-consumer, and I know the ONLY way this is likely to change will be if we affect EAWare's profits from the packs. Hence calling for a boycott.

[curulz]

Apparently thinking people should get more for their money is a bad thing somehow? I mean, wouldn't the people who buy cartel packs be happier if they got more items in the packs? I'm scratching my head at that guy's logic.

 

That's the whole point of the boycott! Voting with your wallet!

 

I swear, some people are so silly, or so intent on making personal attacks, that they don't even address what you're actually saying...

 

Perhaps its how your message is coming across. Its one thing to say you don't see the value in the packs, and therefore you don't buy them. But you seem to think that your value equation is the correct one, and people that buy packs are using a different equation, therefore the wrong one. You want others to boycott something you don't like, regardless of whether or not they like them. You can dress it up as trying to get the best value for everyone, but its selfish at its core.

[EzioMessi]

Perhaps its how your message is coming across. Its one thing to say you don't see the value in the packs, and therefore you don't buy them. But you seem to think that your value equation is the correct one, and people that buy packs are using a different equation, therefore the wrong one. You want others to boycott something you don't like, regardless of whether or not they like them. You can dress it up as trying to get the best value for everyone, but its selfish at its core.

 

OP's post was not talking about some subjective definition of value. It wasn't "I feel the packs aren't worth their price" which can be countered with a "well I feel they ARE worth it!" They are specifically addressing that the drops have been modified, so packs cost the same as they used to but drop less. Aka less value than before for the same price.

 

You can agree with the decision to modify the drops, you can disagree with OP's request for a boycott, you can even state that the newly lessened value is still "enough", but you can't really disagree that a pack's value-for-money has dropped.

[AscendingSky]

Perhaps its how your message is coming across. Its one thing to say you don't see the value in the packs, and therefore you don't buy them. But you seem to think that your value equation is the correct one, and people that buy packs are using a different equation, therefore the wrong one. You want others to boycott something you don't like, regardless of whether or not they like them. You can dress it up as trying to get the best value for everyone, but its selfish at its core.

 

Yes, I want people to boycott the packs. Yes, I don't like them nowadays, but I did buy them back in the day. I felt the value for the money you paid was worth it back then. Not anymore. The downward trend of value has been going on for a while. The move of EAWare to remove Bronze drops (again!) from the packs, put fewer items in packs as a result, and not reduce the unlock costs at the same time, is what inspired me to make this post.

 

How is it selfish though? As I'm not even buying the current packs, convincing EAWare to increase the items available and better the drop rates will only benefit other people! That's what I want, a better value for EVERYONE, as I have stated multiple times. Have you even read my posts?

 

You want to buy Cartel Packs? Go ahead. I've never insisted that everyone MUST agree with me, or that you're an OMG BAD PERSON if you buy Cartel Packs... again, have you even read my posts? You want to attack me for expressing my opinion and advocating a position, and aim personal attacks and use strawman arguments? Then I'll just put you on my ignore list and not bother responding anymore, because you clearly can't be reasonable.

 

Have a nice day!

Edited May 18, 2017 by AscendingSky

[JediQuaker]

When did I say that packs were prohibitively expensive? Where did I say $20 was a lot of money? Oh, right, I didn't... might want to re-read some posts there, friend!

Are you serious?! The whole point of your post is that you think BW doesn't give you enough value for your money (in your humble opinion). That's essentially the same as saying they are too expensive.

 

Would you be happier if the packs only cost 10CC each. Would that be better "value" for your money - or, in other words, would they then be inexpensive enough (in your humble opinion)?

[AscendingSky]

Are you serious?! The whole point of your post is that you think BW doesn't give you enough value for your money (in your humble opinion). That's essentially the same as saying they are too expensive.

 

Would you be happier if the packs only cost 10CC each. Would that be better "value" for your money - or, in other words, would they then be inexpensive enough (in your humble opinion)?

 

Okay. One last time. Maybe you'll read it this time.

 

The reason I say they're reducing the value for your money is because the most recent packs drop fewer items while charging the same price as previous packs that dropped more items. Those items also cost more Cartel Coins to unlock now that Silver is the new Bronze.

 

Something doesn't have to have a large price tag to be a bad value for your money either. Five American dollars isn't a lot of money, but if someone wanted to sell you a single grape for $5, you most likely would consider that a bad value for your money.

[TUXs]

The reason I say they're reducing the value for your money is because the most recent packs drop fewer items while charging the same price as previous packs that dropped more items. Those items also cost more Cartel Coins to unlock now that Silver is the new Bronze.

Yup! Well said. Keep up the fight.

[curulz]

How is it selfish though? As I'm not even buying the current packs, convincing EAWare to increase the items available and better the drop rates will only benefit other people! That's what I want, a better value for EVERYONE, as I have stated multiple times. Have you even read my posts?

 

I did read your posts, and to me its you trying to get others to see your side of view. Which is fine, I have no issue with that. But you asked why people were attacking you, I gave you my perspective. I still don't buy the altruism though.

 

 

You want to buy Cartel Packs? Go ahead. I've never insisted that everyone MUST agree with me, or that you're an OMG BAD PERSON if you buy Cartel Packs... again, have you even read my posts?

 

You're right, you didn't insist because that would be silly....but you did call for everyone to boycott the packs did you not? so while you didn't insist everyone agree with you, that is your goal. So I would ask if you actually read your posts?

 

and no you didn't say people that bought packs were OMG BAD, but you did say some people are inclined to be gambling addicts. Hinting at w/o outright saying that people that buy packs are gambling addicts. certainly not personal attack because it wasn't aimed directly at someone, but could be interpreted as a negative by someone who does actually buy cartel packs.

 

You want to attack me for expressing my opinion and advocating a position, and aim personal attacks and use strawman arguments? Then I'll just put you on my ignore list and not bother responding anymore, because you clearly can't be reasonable.

 

That's fine if you feel it was an attack, I was simply answering your question as to why I think people were "attacking: you.

[Celise]

Something doesn't have to have a large price tag to be a bad value for your money either. Five American dollars isn't a lot of money, but if someone wanted to sell you a single grape for $5, you most likely would consider that a bad value for your money.

 

thats a point of view.

 

if that grape has a seed, you can plant it and have new grapes within a number of months, you can plant those and have even more grapes and eventually that $5 loss would turn into a multi million dollar plus trading deal.

 

You are getting something, even if you feel it is a bit steep for what you are getting at first. this is directly from the point you made. you just need to work at it and make something of what you have. which incidentally what all this RNG is about. you just don't like how steep the value is for what you are getting and yet you can stil make something of it.

 

so you made a point, but ironically opposite of what you had intended with a grape.

[AscendingSky]

thats a point of view.

 

if that grape has a seed, you can plant it and have new grapes within a number of months, you can plant those and have even more grapes and eventually that $5 loss would turn into a multi million dollar plus trading deal.

 

You are getting something, even if you feel it is a bit steep for what you are getting at first. this is directly from the point you made. you just need to work at it and make something of what you have. which incidentally what all this RNG is about. you just don't like how steep the value is for what you are getting and yet you can stil make something of it.

 

so you made a point, but ironically opposite of what you had intended with a grape.

 

Your own example is rather hyperbolic. Not to mention most grapes sold (at least in my country) don't have seeds you can germinate. And I did say you 'most likely' would consider it a bad value... if you want to open a vineyard, I suppose you might consider that example worth an investment... but that's not likely. But hey, if you have to go to such ludicrous extremes to claim my point of view is wrong, I consider it something of a win. So thanks!

 

And yet again, people are still not addressing the argument I'm making in favor of a boycott, and are derailing instead... fun times! I don't understand the vicious and defensive lashing out over me simply saying "Hey guys, a company is charging you the same price for less stuff, I think we shouldn't buy the stuff until it goes back to the same amount of stuff it used to be!" Sheesh.

Edited May 18, 2017 by AscendingSky

[HuaRya]

Has anyone considered that Keith may be re-allocating his staff to other areas in the game. Things like pvp maps, flashpoints, uprisings, operations, vendor items, etc. I would bet it's highly likely he has noticed over the years a disproportionate number of employees work on the cartel packs versus in game content.

 

It's what I would do. Personally I would take that person who worked on 2-3 bronze items and get them working on new in-game vendor items. You know those vendors that have sold the same old stuff for 5+ years? I would also utilize their talents in new events, new strongholds, new maps for pvp/operations, new ships for gsf.

 

So I'll be the devils advocate and assume Keith has seen too much emphasis on cartel packs while the rest of the game gets ignored and is doing something about it.

 

 

 

(PS I bought 1 Hypercrate and got pretty much one of everything. Sold the Chance Cubes as people buy those without any self control on the gtn)

[AscendingSky]

Has anyone considered that Keith may be re-allocating his staff to other areas in the game. Things like pvp maps, flashpoints, uprisings, operations, vendor items, etc. I would bet it's highly likely he has noticed over the years a disproportionate number of employees work on the cartel packs versus in game content.

 

It's what I would do. Personally I would take that person who worked on 2-3 bronze items and get them working on new in-game vendor items. You know those vendors that have sold the same old stuff for 5+ years? I would also utilize their talents in new events, new strongholds, new maps for pvp/operations, new ships for gsf.

 

So I'll be the devils advocate and assume Keith has seen too much emphasis on cartel packs while the rest of the game gets ignored and is doing something about it.

 

 

 

(PS I bought 1 Hypercrate and got pretty much one of everything. Sold the Chance Cubes as people buy those without any self control on the gtn)

 

Your theory may be correct (though it is just a theory based on pure speculation), and I would definitely approve of less people working on cash shop stuff and more working on actual game content. (Though some Bronze items in recent times were no more than altered reskins of stuff already in the game, so I doubt creating them produced that great a workload. But I digress...)

 

That being said, if the packs will now drop less stuff, I believe they should not continue to be listed at the same price as the last shipment of packs that dropped more stuff. Especially now that all those Silver-is-the-new-Bronze armors, weapons, pets, etc. will cost 4 times as much to unlock in Collections as Bronze items do. That makes the packs even more expensive than their predecessors in the long run, again for less stuff than before.

Edited May 18, 2017 by AscendingSky