Vote With Your Wallet: Boycott Cartel Packs!

[TUXs]

Has anyone considered that Keith may be re-allocating his staff to other areas in the game. Things like pvp maps, flashpoints, uprisings, operations, vendor items, etc. I would bet it's highly likely he has noticed over the years a disproportionate number of employees work on the cartel packs versus in game content.

If this is the case, I'll buy a hypercrate just to support the move!!!

[Celise]

Has anyone considered that Keith may be re-allocating his staff to other areas in the game. Things like pvp maps, flashpoints, uprisings, operations, vendor items, etc. I would bet it's highly likely he has noticed over the years a disproportionate number of employees work on the cartel packs versus in game content.

 

It's what I would do. Personally I would take that person who worked on 2-3 bronze items and get them working on new in-game vendor items. You know those vendors that have sold the same old stuff for 5+ years? I would also utilize their talents in new events, new strongholds, new maps for pvp/operations, new ships for gsf.

 

So I'll be the devils advocate and assume Keith has seen too much emphasis on cartel packs while the rest of the game gets ignored and is doing something about it.

 

 

 

(PS I bought 1 Hypercrate and got pretty much one of everything. Sold the Chance Cubes as people buy those without any self control on the gtn)

 

i hope so, because it seems this thread isn't going anywhere, i can assure you ascended has some good points and has been persistent in pursuit of his or her own point, but it's the point here there only one point of view and it seems trying to pursue another point of view appears to be a futile exercise. Something of a shame really because if other points were actually read and looked from another view point, perhaps something could of come from supporting such an idea of trying to address the packs.

 

in any even the packs are not the problem and i do hope the packs are not a big concern for the devs. having more worthwhile content i would rather see than new packs.

Edited May 18, 2017 by Celise

[RaiderMid]

Honestly wish I would have checked out Dulfy's preview before buying. There really isn't a carrot worth chasing to me in this pack outside of the saber, pike. This change just flat out sucks though. I can and will get behind this boycott going forward even if it doesn't matter.

[AscendingSky]

Nah. When I said "many players want traditional robes" he said "yeah that mean only ******** you and this guy Alec" or "stop saying everybody, only you two want them"

He's hypocrite guy.

 

 

I dont care about price of packs, i dont like 99% items from packs.

Why am I here than? Same reason that this gentleman join my threads, that he dont care about but discuss anyway like a Troll.

 

Again, that's not what I said at all. Not even remotely close. Lying and making up slanderous stories doesn't help your case, mate. Neither do personal attacks. Getting my gender right would be nice too.

 

Insert obligatory 'I identify as an Apache attack helicopter' joke here.

Edited May 18, 2017 by AscendingSky

[Lunafox]

I've been kind of unofficially boycotting them for a while now. I haven't been satisfied with the quality and appearance of items in a long time, and the stuff that is decent is near impossible to get. Either they expand and continue selling direct or make the availability better. And certain things like the lightning augments to the lightsabers need to be made available to unlock as well. It's preposterous to expect people who need two for their look to pay in excess of 100's of millions or like $50. I'd pay $20 bucks once + a small unlock, but no more.

 

The unlock prices have gotten to be a bit outrageous for my liking too. I like buying things for my toons, but the prices have gotten stupidly high. Same with the dyes.

[TUXs]

Nah. When I said "many players want traditional robes" he said "yeah that mean only ******** you and this guy Alec" or "stop saying everybody, only you two want them"

He's hypocrite guy.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I don't think that's what he's trying to do at all...and even if it's just you and Alec who want traditional Jedi robes, so what?! You both have the right to ask and we all have the right to comment on it. I hope they do add them...I'd like to see Alec rewarded for his patience and persistence...just like I'd like to see Glzmo get his chat bubbles...I have no interest in them, but I like that they have the courage to ask for them.

[curulz]

I'm sorry you feel that way. I don't think that's what he's trying to do at all...and even if it's just you and Alec who want traditional Jedi robes, so what?! You both have the right to ask and we all have the right to comment on it. I hope they do add them...I'd like to see Alec rewarded for his patience and persistence...just like I'd like to see Glzmo get his chat bubbles...I have no interest in them, but I like that they have the courage to ask for them.

 

dont forget the old Tracer Missle animation and light sword in box!

[Luuin]

After all the pack changes I refuse to buy them anymore. All this work on cartel packs, yet months and months go by with bugs and class imbalances that go unfixed or changed. If they're looking for more money to pay people to fix said bugs/class balance changes, the changes to cartel packs is not the way to do it.

 

And in my opinion, a lot of the recent armor sets/weapons are god awful ugly.

 

If I knew my money was being used to fix animations on a more consistent basis, i'd be willing to spend money again on packs. But so far I don't see it. It's been since launch and the assassin/shadow still use their double-bladed lightsaber like a single saber during cutscenes, it's hilariously bad. That's just one example of many that have been brushed under the rug and ignored since launch.

Edited May 18, 2017 by Luuin

[TUXs]

dont forget the old Tracer Missle animation and light sword in box!

Well, Sword in box guy did have a good suggestion...we just...um...didn't quite fully understand what he actually wanted...

 

With any luck, Tracer Missile guy will get his action back with some Cartel Toy...regen or emote I bet

[Alec_Fortescue]

Well, Sword in box guy did have a good suggestion...we just...um...didn't quite fully understand what he actually wanted...

 

With any luck, Tracer Missile guy will get his action back with some Cartel Toy...regen or emote I bet

 

First time I hear sword in the box thing. I am curious now.

 

 

Also I am not gonna call to boycott packs. Although there are only two armor sets, it actually increases chances of getting the nice ones in bulk onto gtn and will reflect greatly on prices. ardent knight is already cheap and will be dirty cheap soon. Same for mandalorian tracker.

 

This is kinda great for people who enjoy appearances. While quality of armor and items is subjective, if they keep on like this, while improving on item quality we're going to get lower selection of items, sure, but much more of them and it will reflect on the price.

 

I support this model for as long as bioware agrees to take armor design seriously and star warsy. There are way too many unappealing items that look nothing like star wars (disputable) and are pure junk that many people dislike and don't bother wearing. There are too many nice outfits which would fit the game and relate to lore but they are often ruined by unnecessary additions making them hideous. ;l

Edited May 18, 2017 by Alec_Fortescue

[TUXs]

First time I hear sword in the box thing. I am curious now.

While it's long gone from the real forums, he does live on in infamy:

(best link - original text) http://filthy-few.co.uk/files/swordinbox.html

(discussion of it) http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1043212-Little-Laugh-if-you-followed-SWTOR-official-forums-today/page2

(these forums) http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=2163&highlight=sword+in+the+box

[DreadtechSavant]

Players will buy what they want when they want to. Doubt anyone is going to boycott packs because you made a thread asking them to. The only ones that will are the ones who already were and dare say they came to that decision on there own. Not because you said anything OP.

[AscendingSky]

Players will buy what they want when they want to. Doubt anyone is going to boycott packs because you made a thread asking them to. The only ones that will are the ones who already were and dare say they came to that decision on there own. Not because you said anything OP.

 

You're entitled to your opinion. Have a nice day!

[Doobon]

I am going to Boycott the Cartel shop because of the terrible customer service they gave me about the cartel item i bought !

[SourOrange]

I've been kind of unofficially boycotting them for a while now. I haven't been satisfied with the quality and appearance of items in a long time, and the stuff that is decent is near impossible to get. Either they expand and continue selling direct or make the availability better. And certain things like the lightning augments to the lightsabers need to be made available to unlock as well. It's preposterous to expect people who need two for their look to pay in excess of 100's of millions or like $50. I'd pay $20 bucks once + a small unlock, but no more.

 

The unlock prices have gotten to be a bit outrageous for my liking too. I like buying things for my toons, but the prices have gotten stupidly high. Same with the dyes.

 

I've never bought a cartel pack, and I never will for the reasons stated in this thread. And because the cartel packs make items so rare, when or if they ever do go up for direct sale, the developers can get away with charging exorbitant prices for them because of their rarity.

 

Which is, in my opinion, a dirty business trick and I refuse to play into it. I'm not afraid to spend a little cash for my entertainment, and I do splurge a bit on shop things from time to time- a mount here, an unlock there, sometimes a set of armour.

But I cannot spend upwards of 25 dollars for a digital cosmetic item. That's more than I pay for my subscription for the rest of the game, and it's more than I'd pay for clothes in real life which have an actual function. Cosmetic armour is a good way to make money, but it doesn't warrant the prices that are being asked, and it's particularly unfair for those like me who cannot support (or reasonably afford) to pay such prices for a chance at getting an item.

 

I honestly think Bioware would make a lot more money by putting everything on direct sale for an average price (or slight variant of it) in group cycles. One group of sets for a few months, then another, etc. People would flock and buy the things they always wanted for their character and likely unlocks as well. From there it would simply be a matter of adding new sets from time to time in order to keep things fresh.

Those who want a set that they couldn't grab when it was available could buy it from the GTN if they simply couldn't wait for it to come around again, keeping the player market relatively stable, and more people would have reliable access to sets they otherwise couldn't have had a chance of getting.

 

Bottom line, there are other (more honest and less skeevy) ways of distributing these items without resorting to playing off of some people's gambling addictions.

Edited May 19, 2017 by SourOrange

[Soljin]

I've never bought a cartel pack, and I never will for the reasons stated in this thread. And because the cartel packs make items so rare, when or if they ever do go up for direct sale, the developers can get away with charging exorbitant prices for them because of their rarity.

 

Which is, in my opinion, a dirty business trick and I refuse to play into it. I'm not afraid to spend a little cash for my entertainment, and I do splurge a bit on shop things from time to time- a mount here, an unlock there, sometimes a set of armour.

But I cannot spend upwards of 25 dollars for a digital cosmetic item. That's more than I pay for my subscription for the rest of the game, and it's more than I'd pay for clothes in real life which have an actual function. Cosmetic armour is a good way to make money, but it doesn't warrant the prices that are being asked, and it's particularly unfair for those like me who cannot support (or reasonably afford) to pay such prices for a chance at getting an item.

 

I honestly think Bioware would make a lot more money by putting everything on direct sale for an average price (or slight variant of it) in group cycles. One group of sets for a few months, then another, etc. People would flock and buy the things they always wanted for their character and likely unlocks as well. From there it would simply be a matter of adding new sets from time to time in order to keep things fresh.

Those who want a set that they couldn't grab when it was available could buy it from the GTN if they simply couldn't wait for it to come around again, keeping the player market relatively stable, and more people would have reliable access to sets they otherwise couldn't have had a chance of getting.

 

Bottom line, there are other (more honest and less skeevy) ways of distributing these items without resorting to playing off of some people's gambling addictions.

 

Pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter...

[JediQuaker]

Okay. One last time. Maybe you'll read it this time.

 

Something doesn't have to have a large price tag to be a bad value for your money either. Five American dollars isn't a lot of money, but if someone wanted to sell you a single grape for $5, you most likely would consider that a bad value for your money.

Okay. One last time. Maybe you'll understand it this time.

You are just playing semantic games. Saying something doesn't give you good value for your money is the same as saying it's too expensive.

And yes, a single grape for $5 would not be "good value for your money" - in other words: too expensive.

[AmadanNaBrona]

Lol. I've been boycotting packs forever, never bought one, never will.

I see no point in it.

If I want to gamble, I'll go to Vegas.

If I want to play Barbie dress up, I'll go to Wal-Mart.

[Jett-Rinn]

Boycotts work about as well as peeing into the wind, but to each his own.

 

Personally it's my money and I'll spend it as I please, at least in SWTOR you don't get backlash in game, I have a couple friends who play ESO and they said there was a group of idiots that would follow folks around harassing them about riding a mount from one if the Crates they sell.

 

Things could always be worse I guess.

[bdatt]

Way ahead of you OP! I've only bought one pack ever and it was when they were first released and i used complementary coins. Got crap and said never again. I've also spent less than 1M on cartel market items, and haven't spent a single credit in over 2 years (I use mainly old craftable stuff that has been reskinned and put on the cartel market...). I've only bought cartel coins once, to unlock some stronghold rooms, like 3 years ago.

 

I am not the target audience of this dev team.

Edited May 19, 2017 by bdatt

[AscendingSky]

I've never bought a cartel pack, and I never will for the reasons stated in this thread. And because the cartel packs make items so rare, when or if they ever do go up for direct sale, the developers can get away with charging exorbitant prices for them because of their rarity.

 

Which is, in my opinion, a dirty business trick and I refuse to play into it. I'm not afraid to spend a little cash for my entertainment, and I do splurge a bit on shop things from time to time- a mount here, an unlock there, sometimes a set of armour.

But I cannot spend upwards of 25 dollars for a digital cosmetic item. That's more than I pay for my subscription for the rest of the game, and it's more than I'd pay for clothes in real life which have an actual function. Cosmetic armour is a good way to make money, but it doesn't warrant the prices that are being asked, and it's particularly unfair for those like me who cannot support (or reasonably afford) to pay such prices for a chance at getting an item.

 

I honestly think Bioware would make a lot more money by putting everything on direct sale for an average price (or slight variant of it) in group cycles. One group of sets for a few months, then another, etc. People would flock and buy the things they always wanted for their character and likely unlocks as well. From there it would simply be a matter of adding new sets from time to time in order to keep things fresh.

Those who want a set that they couldn't grab when it was available could buy it from the GTN if they simply couldn't wait for it to come around again, keeping the player market relatively stable, and more people would have reliable access to sets they otherwise couldn't have had a chance of getting.

 

Bottom line, there are other (more honest and less skeevy) ways of distributing these items without resorting to playing off of some people's gambling addictions.

 

I agree that I think direct sale options for items is a better idea from both an ethical perspective as well as an economic one, as that it will often (though not always, due to the nature of RNG) lead to a better value for the customer in the end while still producing a good revenue stream for EAWare. If people are very resistant to the idea of eliminating the gamble packs, then I think a good compromise would be to have both the gamble packs AND the ability to direct purchase individual items from that pack, while that pack is still available on the CM.

 

It would work like how some of the themed decoration bundles already available on the CM do. You can buy each item in the Cantina/Spacer/Luxury decoration packs individually off the CM for some coins, or you can buy the whole bundle--which is a much bigger up front investment but gives you all those decos for less than if you individually bought all of them.

 

That way, people who want to spin the virtual roulette wheel and take a chance on scoring big for less cash can buy gamble packs, whereas people who just want a few specific items and don't want to gamble could just buy those items direct and leave the rest alone. Me personally, I refuse to buy gamble packs, but I'm happy to purchase direct sale items I actually want for a set price.

 

I especially want to see this option come out for decorations, because you HAVE to purchase multiples of each decoration to populate your own strongholds (guild strongholds you can add the majority of decorations for credits, which is nice), whereas with armor/weapons/packs/etc. you just buy it once and then unlock it in collections and generate infinite copies of it as needed across your legacy.

Edited May 19, 2017 by AscendingSky

[DarthDymond]

Okay. One last time. Maybe you'll understand it this time.

You are just playing semantic games. Saying something doesn't give you good value for your money is the same as saying it's too expensive.

And yes, a single grape for $5 would not be "good value for your money" - in other words: too expensive.

Here's the issue:

1. Sometimes people say "this is too expensive" to mean "this is overpriced relative to the value of what I'm getting".
   
2. Other times, people say "this is too expensive" to mean "this costs more than I can easily afford to pay".
   

 

When you said: "It's all a matter of perspective, but if $20 is a lot of money to you, don't spend it. For many of us, $20 is cheap - so don't get on here thinking you speak for everyone." it certainly came across as bringing the "more than I can afford" variety of "too expensive" into the conversation. And that's where you're getting push-back, because no one made that complaint.

 

Substantively, the response to your post has been:

"No one is saying the packs cost more than they can afford, they're saying the packs are overpriced."

 

But that response is apparently getting interpreted as:

"No one is saying packs are too expensive, they're saying the packs are too expensive."

[CrazyCT]

It's possible that the *companions* are broken rather than the courting gifts. (They are broken in lots of other ways, why not that, too?) OK, I agree, the effect is the same, but I'm sort of inclined to suspect that the various changes in how companions work has brought us to this rather than breakage in the gifts themselves.

 

I just think of "Courting" gifts as a different type of gift, rather than actually thinking of it as a gift you need to give to someone to court them. For instance, Aric Jorgan isn't going to be impressed if you give him flowers or chocolates, he'd much rather have some "Military Gear". Give them something that they already like, don't force them to suddenly like "Authentic Tionese Cuisine", they may actually be allergic to it.

[Nightblazer]

I agree that I think direct sale options for items is a better idea from both an ethical perspective as well as an economic one, as that it will often (though not always, due to the nature of RNG) lead to a better value for the customer in the end while still producing a good revenue stream for EAWare. If people are very resistant to the idea of eliminating the gamble packs, then I think a good compromise would be to have both the gamble packs AND the ability to direct purchase individual items from that pack, while that pack is still available on the CM.

 

It would work like how some of the themed decoration bundles already available on the CM do. You can buy each item in the Cantina/Spacer/Luxury decoration packs individually off the CM for some coins, or you can buy the whole bundle--which is a much bigger up front investment but gives you all those decos for less than if you individually bought all of them.

 

That way, people who want to spin the virtual roulette wheel and take a chance on scoring big for less cash can buy gamble packs, whereas people who just want a few specific items and don't want to gamble could just buy those items direct and leave the rest alone. Me personally, I refuse to buy gamble packs, but I'm happy to purchase direct sale items I actually want for a set price.

 

I especially want to see this option come out for decorations, because you HAVE to purchase multiples of each decoration to populate your own strongholds (guild strongholds you can add the majority of decorations for credits, which is nice), whereas with armor/weapons/packs/etc. you just buy it once and then unlock it in collections and generate infinite copies of it as needed across your legacy.

 

I don't ever forsee them selling items separately and not having packs. While I would like that a lot to see them redesign the cartel market and sell armor sets, weapons, Crystals, companions, etc separately it just won't happen.

 

The main issue is items themselves. For example say you have items sold individually and no packs. You have a player who has a juggernaut/guardian or shadow/assassin only and a new assault Cannon is posted in the market.

 

Well in most situations that player won't care. They simply aren't a customer for that item. Or the item may just be a bad item no one wants. But if said item is in a pack well surprise that's what you got. But because they have said item, it may encourage them to roll a commando and get more into to the game.

 

So that is the first problem packs solve for developers. 100% of your players are now customers for 100% of what you have to sell.

 

Two for items olayers get but don't need, they can in turn sell said items on the GTN so players can buy them direct without going through the market and in essence avoid the gamble.

 

While personally I would like all items directly sold with a few exceptions such as decorations, companion gifts, Jawa junk, etc still sold in packs, weapons, armor, Crystals, companions, etc sold directly.

 

Even emotes, toys could be sold in packs but themed or a group where you get the same items.

 

But that's just my opinion. I understand why they do it but I prefer to see it done differently or even sold directly.

[mmmbuddah]

Havent bought a pack in over 2 years. Just use my free cartel coins to save for one if I want one.