Healing in Pvp

[BadHoneyBadger]

This has probably been brought up in a forum post somewhere before but does there need to be some adjustment to the number of medals given for healing in PvP? Here is my case:

1) Played a Huttball where I healed for 3.2M , pulled the ball carriers up ramps, threw out a DoT occassionally, and overloaded enemies off ramps (200k-230k dmg) and received only 5 medals

 

2) Hypergate - 3.9M heals, 195k dmg, and again only 5 medals. It is worth noting that I only got the 5th medal because they decided to attack our point on the last round.

 

Now in matches such as Huttball and hypergate it is really difficult to get objective points because healers end up healing mid or escorting ball carriers (sometimes carry the ball but not a lot) while in both these matches almost all dps and tanks received more medals than healers. And Im talking about rDps that perched up and had low dmg (800k) in a match. I just feel something should be done, perhaps something like getting objective points for doing X amount of healing to a ball carrier in Huttball or add another healing medal (maybe 1mil, 2 mil, and 3 mil)

Edited May 17, 2017 by BadHoneyBadger

[Foambreaker]

These are not healing, dps or kill contests and so raw numbers don't pay much. Objectives pay and heals are not exempt.

[Sportiva]

These are not healing, dps or kill contests and so raw numbers don't pay much. Objectives pay and heals are not exempt.

 

That's not the issue ... the issue is that Healers are not properly awarded for their utility to a PvP match. I main a tank, and I almost always top the WZ scoreboard while providing as much utility to my team as a mammary on a nun. Yet, on my Healer I will routinely get less than 8 medals even though I am more valuable to my team.

[Vember]

That's not the issue ... the issue is that Healers are not properly awarded for their utility to a PvP match.

 

They kind of are, considering they're virtually unkillable by anything short of half the enemy team.

[Sportiva]

They kind of are, considering they're virtually unkillable by anything short of half the enemy team.

 

I don't disagree, but I don't think the design was to make Healers the de facto tank in a WZ but basically that is what has happened. As a Healer I am protecting my teammates more by getting beat on and healing myself than I protect them as a tank.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Sportiva

[BadHoneyBadger]

They kind of are, considering they're virtually unkillable by anything short of half the enemy team.

 

Shouldn't take half the team to take down one healer, maybe if there are two. The problem is finding dps and tanks that are competent enough to properly stun and interrupt. However my argument is that it is way harder for a good healer to get the minimum 8 medals for max valor than a horrible dps that does very minimum damage.

[-Bob-]

medals? meh

i play to win, not concerned with the fluff

[VixenRawR]

Medals don't really prove anything. Edited May 17, 2017 by VixenRawR

[VixenRawR]

Shouldn't take half the team to take down one healer, maybe if there are two. The problem is finding dps and tanks that are competent enough to properly stun and interrupt. However my argument is that it is way harder for a good healer to get the minimum 8 medals for max valor than a horrible dps that does very minimum damage.

 

1 v 1 a healer should always lose to a dps. They shouldn't be able to to out heal a single dps ever. Not saying they should crumple up and die after being hit twice. A healer is useless solo as it is needed to help the team, a tank already guards a healer and makes it insanely strong...and team should peel for a healer. Not to say a good healer vs a bad dps should die...but if I 1 v 1 myself as a healer I should never live forever. Otherwise just que with 2 heals, leave one to guard and call it a win. Dumb mechanics make it where sorcs can't be 1 v 1 unless they are stupid.

[jedcjedcjedc]

1 v 1 a healer should always lose to a dps. They shouldn't be able to to out heal a single dps ever. Not saying they should crumple up and die after being hit twice. A healer is useless solo as it is needed to help the team, a tank already guards a healer and makes it insanely strong...and team should peel for a healer. Not to say a good healer vs a bad dps should die...but if I 1 v 1 myself as a healer I should never live forever. Otherwise just que with 2 heals, leave one to guard and call it a win. Dumb mechanics make it where sorcs can't be 1 v 1 unless they are stupid.

 

sooo.... let's put it like this. you have 8 people, they have 8 people. logically that means you have someone to cover their healers and they have someone to cover yours. if one dps was all it took to shut down a healer, there is literally 0 point to ever playing a healer at all. dps players just want to do their 800 dps and think things should just fall at their feet and get mad when they don't.

[stoopicus]

sooo.... let's put it like this. you have 8 people, they have 8 people. logically that means you have someone to cover their healers and they have someone to cover yours. if one dps was all it took to shut down a healer, there is literally 0 point to ever playing a healer at all. dps players just want to do their 800 dps and think things should just fall at their feet and get mad when they don't.

 

800 DPS dps players - sadly, a thing. I have a screenie collection with names like "dps_sad.jpg", "dps_sadder.jpg", etc. It's a sad day when Immortal can out-dps a MercPack.

Edited May 18, 2017 by stoopicus

[jedcjedcjedc]

800 DPS dps players - sadly, a thing. I have a screenie collection with names like "dps_sad.jpg", "dps_sadder.jpg", etc. It's a sad day when Immortal can out-dps a MercPack.

 

Oh i know. I'm speaking from experience. I kind of used 800 deliberately

 

That player has 820 dps, which naturally means everyone below him had under 800 dps for a 7 round hypergate. how that can happen, I don't know. hell, we had no heals I was on a jugg, with the rest of my team being literally useless, and still did about 4 times that.

[stoopicus]

Oh i know. I'm speaking from experience. I kind of used 800 deliberately

 

That player has 820 dps, which naturally means everyone below him had under 800 dps for a 7 round hypergate. how that can happen, I don't know. hell, we had no heals I was on a jugg, with the rest of my team being literally useless, and still did about 4 times that.

 

Lol. Top DPS: Jugg. #2: Guardian. Good times.

[VixenRawR]

sooo.... let's put it like this. you have 8 people, they have 8 people. logically that means you have someone to cover their healers and they have someone to cover yours. if one dps was all it took to shut down a healer, there is literally 0 point to ever playing a healer at all. dps players just want to do their 800 dps and think things should just fall at their feet and get mad when they don't.

 

You really don't understand anything I say do you? You believe your sorc can just turret heal against 4 people and live. I'm not saying they should just melt into the ground. But they should never win a 1 v 1, in the end they should fail by lack of energy, or cooldowns.

 

So you believe a healer should win in a 1 v 1? Should never ever die, because that's stupid.Tanking and guard are so easy to apply that a healer takes 20% life from attacks through taunt and guard. On top of that they should already be able to survive multiple people as they already do? Even through the burst of mercs and snipers...sorc healers still reign supreme.

 

There is plenty of point, I have played healers in dozen mmos and they never were able to 1 v 1 and always win. Not to say a healer can't win a 1 v 1, but based on skill. If you really think about it, healers are still more op than eng snipers, conceal operatives and mercs why? Cause no one allows them in duels...because it would be stupid op and a waste of time.

 

Healing in this game is way over the top. To easy with guards, and now the ease of dps sins, juggs and pt to guard swap.

 

I guess people just like to stand around gaining zero kills with heals and tanks.

 

Fine keep your heals.Then they should introduce abilities to cut heals by 50% and not 20% or cause those 20% abilities to stack up to 3x if applied by 3 different players.That or an ability to disable guard and put guard on a cast or cooldown, or reduce range of it. The overall Meta of swtor is stripped of reason when multiple heals or heals with guard are introduced in abundance.

 

So many people spoiled who mained sorc and its FOTY easy mode heals.

 

Healing wouldnt be so bad maybe if dps lacked the ability to heal. No h2f powers, just dcds.

 

This is why I've enjoyed Marauders for so long. They are where dps should be at. Their cooldowns require timing and aren't just dumb down h2f garbage. If that is how dps were, then sure heals would be okai. But when you get easy escapes, barrier, phasewalk for sorcs only, h2f x3 on mercs that make healers which are already to hard to kill impossible to kill under guard then you just get boring healfest. Sure mercs are only popular because bads can run around and stay alive forever, their burst hasn't changed, it's just easy to turret mode a merc just like sorc heals do. They don't have to apply reason, tactics or much skill to gain numbers in a warzone.

 

But you know, let's just have no one ever die in pvp.

 

....and btw, you did say someone was covering the healer...so that would make it a 1 v 2...the healer being covered would win...there you go...your logic has failed, your thinking is flawed...and that is the purpose of a team. They cover healer, they win.

[jedcjedcjedc]

....and btw, you did say someone was covering the healer...so that would make it a 1 v 2...the healer being covered would win...there you go...your logic has failed, your thinking is flawed...and that is the purpose of a team. They cover healer, they win.

 

you say I don't understand you, yet you think I'm talking about the same team when i say you have someone to cover their healer and they have someone to cover yours. you know, I'm sitting here scratching my head trying to think in what world a healer wins any 1v1 against a competent dps, and it just doesn't exist. If you mean is able to survive by devoting resources to healing themselves and other various methods to keep themselves alive, a healer should by all means be able to do that. you can't equate surviving with "winning". The dps doesn't lose anything either. your job as any lone dps attacking a healer is to drain their resources, force them out of position as much as possible, and by avoiding/devoting time and resources towards you, prevent them from healing their team. does that mean they are never going to be able to throw heals to teammates? of course not. But if you did your job well enough those teammates start to get low as the damage piles up and reaches a point where the healer can't get to everyone in time and people die. you now have more resources available than your opponents, and the momentum carries on to more kills. you have just learned the basics of just about all team fight games out there.

[Wimbleton]

medals? meh

i play to win, not concerned with the fluff

 

I like this guy.

[PoshTS]

I can easily heal triple my OP healer on my merc healer and my OP has full 240-242 while my merc has 230's and a 3 piece heal set bonus and a two piece dps bonus. plus merc heals is insanely easy and alll you have to do is stand there and pop strong DCD whenever you feel threatened. Heals is too stronk UNLESS its OP heals. Edited May 18, 2017 by PoshTS
spelling error

[Sargrith]

I can easily heal triple my OP healer on my merc healer and my OP has full 240-242 while my merc has 230's and a 3 piece heal set bonus and a two piece dps bonus. plus merc heals is insanely easy and alll you have to do is stand there and pop strong DCD whenever you feel threatened. Heals is too stronk UNLESS its OP heals.

 

I heal for more on my scoundrel than my Commando, and die so much less. Scoundrels in matches should use LOS and healing from directions no one is looking. When you get found out roll or stealthout and reposition. Truly scoundrel healing is much stronger than Commando healing just by pure numbers. Additionally Commando has no escape, he can be shortly uninterrupteable but he can't escape. Once the focus is on him he's just buying time before his death.

 

By the way just doing dps is no great way to get medals either. A sentinel doing decent damage will still get few medals escorting a ball carrier or helping hold mid.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I heal for more on my scoundrel than my Commando, and die so much less. Scoundrels in matches should use LOS and healing from directions no one is looking. When you get found out roll or stealthout and reposition. Truly scoundrel healing is much stronger than Commando healing just by pure numbers. Additionally Commando has no escape, he can be shortly uninterrupteable but he can't escape. Once the focus is on him he's just buying time before his death.

 

By the way just doing dps is no great way to get medals either. A sentinel doing decent damage will still get few medals escorting a ball carrier or helping hold mid.

 

Any DPS that gives a rat's *** about medals in a liability to his team.

 

DPS has one job - Kill. Kill everything you see, kill as many as you can before you die, like the dog you are.

 

That's why in this Meta Marauder is the only well balanced DPS class [not that all the others are equally unbalanced of course]. All this healing that DPS have makes them more thoughtful of survival than killing. Sure, you can't DPS when your dead, no doubt about it. But, there is a reason why in Operations when you have multiple members down that last one you consider dirty rezzing is the DPS. As DPS nothing comes before doing as much damage as possible as fast as possible. You leave the healing to the healers, that's their job, and that is how proper trinity is supposed to work.

 

DPS is expendable. A DPS goes down, that doesn't make it a wipe, a tank goes down, you're in big trouble, a healer goes down your in trouble.

 

Point being, yes, of course you shouldn't not give any thought to staying alive, but, if your so concerned with survival that is begins to come at the price of DPS, you're not doing your job as a DPS.

 

Killing people in PVP is what matters. Not how many medals you get. The more enemies you kill the less enemies who are stopping your team from fulfilling objectives.

 

It's great that you're not dead yet, but it's bad that you didn't kill the ball carrier before he crossed the goal line.

 

Fulfilling objectives is important, but what's even more important that that is stopping your enemies from completing objectives.

 

A tank and a healer can complete objectives. A tank and a healer are not well suited to killing enemies. That's the DPS' job. DPS' lives have less value than those of a tank and the healer.

 

Kill your enemies, or they will kill the more important people on your team. DPS' lives have no value, DPS are cannon fodder, long as you take as many enemies with you as you can, you did your job, now back to the respawn area you valueless bastard.

 

If you die you die, that's what DPS are for. DPS are soldiers. Soldiers don't matter, winning the war matters.

 

Any Sentinel or Marauder [other DPS too of course, just mirroring your example] who cares about his/her own well being should be ashamed of themself! =]

 

Give me blood and guts all over me and keep your medals.....

 

I am Death....Destroyer of Worlds.

Edited May 18, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Vember]

1 v 1 a healer should always lose to a dps. They shouldn't be able to to out heal a single dps ever. Not saying they should crumple up and die after being hit twice. A healer is useless solo as it is needed to help the team, a tank already guards a healer and makes it insanely strong...and team should peel for a healer. Not to say a good healer vs a bad dps should die...but if I 1 v 1 myself as a healer I should never live forever. Otherwise just que with 2 heals, leave one to guard and call it a win. Dumb mechanics make it where sorcs can't be 1 v 1 unless they are stupid.

 

This. Healers should have to rely on teamwork like everyone else.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

This. Healers should have to rely on teamwork like everyone else.

 

If a healer cannot even keep themself alive in a 1 vs 1with a DPS, how on earth could they possibly be expected to keep the other people on the team alive?

 

This would necessitate the healer not being attacked. How could that be possible to effect? The healer is going to be attacked, the healer is going to be focused more than any other player on their team and a good amount of the time there will be multiple people trying to kill the healer.

 

The healer could not possibly be able to do their jobs to their team if they can't even do it for themselves. It's a totally unrealistic scenario.

 

The only hope a DPS should have of taking a healer down, has to be only considered in the long haul. They have to completely extinguish the healers resources over time getting them eventually into a position wherein the healer resources can no longer meet the demands of continued sustained healing.

 

If all it took was one DPS to take out a healer under normal circumstances there would be no point in marking healers. Healers are marked because they require a concerted effort to take down. It should take a DPS so long to wear a healer down that the healer has time to call in for help.

 

I'm not saying that perhaps the healing isn't too much right now, there is certainly an alarming amount of healing going on, and yea it should probably be reined in some. But a healer by their very design is and has for time immemorial in MMOs been based on a ratio of heals exceeding individual DPS' output.

 

Simply put, if one DPS can take out a healer in anything less than a long period of time, than a healer cannot function for what it was designed for, to try and keep other members om their time from dieing and having to heal multiple people at the same time throughout the battle.

 

1v1 a healers heals must exceed a DPSers DPS output. Without that sort of 'checks and balance' a healer could not do the job they were designed for in a group setting.

[Eli_Porter]

1v1 a healers heals must exceed a DPSers DPS output. Without that sort of 'checks and balance' a healer could not do the job they were designed for in a group setting.

 

You speak as if Guard, taunts and CC don't exist.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

You speak as if Guard, taunts and CC don't exist.

 

Just more flies in the oinment. Sure, those are factors. One of the worst things they did to PVP in 5.0 was give guards to non tanks. That's why you see so many Snipers and Mercs guarded, like they didn't have OP defenses as it is. All the guards are a huge problem, they make healing all that much easier. They should remove guards and taunts from everyone except tanks, and real tanks, not skank tanks, so as to give greater incentitive and greater value to the tanking role in PVP.

[EzioMessi]

Just more flies in the oinment. Sure, those are factors. One of the worst things they did to PVP in 5.0 was give guards to non tanks. That's why you see so many Snipers and Mercs guarded, like they didn't have OP defenses as it is. All the guards are a huge problem, they make healing all that much easier. They should remove guards and taunts from everyone except tanks, and real tanks, not skank tanks, so as to give greater incentitive and greater value to the tanking role in PVP.

 

What I hate the most is when I end up in an arena where the other side has a tanking class + healer (non-Ranked) and my PuG doesn't even realize that guard and taunts exist.

 

"Everyone focus healer"

"That won't work, we need to force guard swaps or peel away the tank-"

"FOCUS HEALERS"

~Everyone on our team dies and their healer never drops below 80% heath~

 

"THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT YOU'RE A SCRUB YOU SHOULD HAVE FOCUSED HEALER, LETS FOCUS HEALER THIS ROUND"

"That's exactly what we did last tim-"

"FOCUS HEALER"

~Same story~

 

"YOU'RE ALL BADS BYE, I HATE PUB PVP"

 

-Story of every arena in swtor, ever

 

At this point I can't even tell if the game needs guard+taunt to be tuned down, or a mandatory tutorial on how tank protection works, and why swaps are important.

Edited May 18, 2017 by EzioMessi

[Eli_Porter]

One of the worst things they did to PVP in 5.0 was give guards to non tanks. That's why you see so many Snipers and Mercs guarded, like they didn't have OP defenses as it is.

 

Are you seriously suggesting they should nerf DPS juggs and sins?

Edited May 18, 2017 by Eli_Porter