Sith motivation, morals, etc - looking to understand

[Mashugana]

The Jedi are pretty clear to me - serve others, stay emotionless and clam, protect the weak. But what is the motivation of a sith?

 

I want to try a Dark Side warrior. I'm having trouble getting into their head. Why do they make these dark choices? What motivates them? Why do they hate the Jed and Republic?

 

I know this is super geeky but I love this stuff

 

Thanks for any advice.

[AshlaBoga]

The Jedi are pretty clear to me - serve others, stay emotionless and clam, protect the weak. But what is the motivation of a sith?

 

I want to try a Dark Side warrior. I'm having trouble getting into their head. Why do they make these dark choices? What motivates them? Why do they hate the Jed and Republic?

 

I know this is super geeky but I love this stuff

 

Thanks for any advice.

 

Well, a lot of anti-Jedi hate is simply bad blood from a millennia old conflict. internecine war often leaves the deepest scars since you can't have a more intimate enemy than your former allies. The Jen'jidai teachings embraced hatred of the "stagnant and narrow minded Jedi."

 

As for Sith Philosophy in general, it parallels many real world ideologies.

 

Examples: Social Darwinism, Imperialism, Fascism

 

Hot-blooded psychopaths populate every place on earth. Creating an ideology that embraces aggression as being of the utmost good natural attracts superpowered serial killers. The Sith Empire takes the most intelligent and ambitious and fills them with teachings of long dead genocidal madmen. It's about power and hedonism.

Edited May 12, 2017 by AshlaBoga

[Plk_Lesiak]

Sith are driven by passion - love, hate, fear, anger - but what emotion that particular Sith uses and what are his aspirations is very much a personal issue. The brutal training on Korriban and the treacherous culture of the Sith Empire encourages feeding on negative emotion, focusing on gaining power and wealth at the cost of others. A typical Sith will seek power and pleasure while caring little about others, using them as tools for his personal gain.

 

Still, even a typical "dark side" Sith can use positive passions, such as love and devotion. The problem is, those require trust and trust is a rare commodity in the Empire. Also, for weaker minds, dark side of the force have obvious corrupting influence, making them cruel and unstable. More honourable, pragmatic Sith who are still definitely dark side, like Darth Malgus or Lana Beniko, are less common than selfish, murderous ones, maybe best portrayed in Thana Vesh.

 

So it's very much about willpower and personal morals. The Sith training aims at destroying self-restrain and many positive, social impulses, so very few can survive it without embracing the dark side in its worst. Still, there are exceptions and when I play LS Warrior or Inquisitor I don't think of them as "undercover Jedi". They follow their passions, but they didn't allow their experiences within the Empire destroy their humanity - they try to make the best of their situation and dream of leading the Sith into a lighter future, one that embraces the freedom of the Sith code but rejects the madness and cruelty the Empire often represents.

 

After all, who, having the power and freedom of being a Sith, would want to accept the limitations of the Jedi? The Jedi who are forbidden to love, forbidden to feel, to be fully human?

 

That's my interpretation.

 

EDIT: Also, the Sith hates the Jedi for many reasons, the primary ones being completely opposite ideologies and the ways Jedi enforce theirs. Jedi basically think of the Sith as abominations and want to eradicate the Dark Side - not necessarily the Sith as particular people, but their way of using the Force, their teachings, definitely. In the Jedi philosophy only when there is no Dark Side "the Force is in balance". Also, at this point, both sides are stuck in a total war and most of the time see no other resolution than eradicating the opponent. The hate is deep on both sides, what the various stories within SWTOR shows.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Plk_Lesiak

[StarSquirrel]

The above post perfectly sums up Sith Philosophy 101.

 

I'd like to add that Sith in SWTOR era have a unique feature in that, due to there being so many, the path to power is very diverse among their ideology. Whereas the Jedi are fairly dogmatic the Sith (as the previous poster mentioned) can harness any particular strong emotion whereas the Jedi see most alternate viewpoints as heresy (this is not a critique of Jedi, they're actually just *too good* i.e. the embodiment of justice and goodness). That previous point might be contentious but it *was* the plan of Lucas from the beginning that Jedi ideals would represent good in comparison to the empire's bad. We might not want to see things so simply today but in this fictional universe it certainly is that way. Yeah... fiction makes philosophy so much simpler sometimes yay!

 

So while the Sith have a greater variety of views, they're all equally morally repulsive since they focus on some abuse/overuse of that emotion. Sith who use love turn to passion and blah,blah,blah yoda. The only Sith I've seen use happiness were sadists so... that's a thing. Anger, Greed/Jealousy, and Sadness are the most widely used ones tbh. That said, to be a Sith carries a few different potential definitions. The most common, and widely accepted is Sith are created through the "survival of the fittest" system. Note, this is not "strongest", a smart/conniving/lucky Sith could pass through the ranks by virtue of some adaptation that doesn't correlate to strength and the system is often harmed by the philosophy I'll discuss next.

 

Others, instead play group politics and to be a sith is to be of the strongest group. This could be species (purebloods), creed (various orders/cults), or politics (loyal to the right Lord or faction). This one is more communal, where the identity of a group as superior (stronger/fitter) gives that identity the right to dominate another. Some try to fit this round idea into the square hole of individual "survival of the fittest" and end up passing through weaker Sith by trying to suppress individuals not of their group.

 

Of course there are a few "patriot" sith from noble bloodlines who exist more like an old (I mean really old think 1600's) British aristocracy where the role of the upper class was to protect and serve their society (in return they get political and social advantages for risking their lives to keep and/or make a region prosperous). Their upper-class status is tied directly to their martial and administrative success in defending/expanding the state's territories. As a result there is intense pressure on these Sith to perform well in order to hold up their family name and legacy. However the Sith are oddly egalitarian as the state seems to put few if any limits on who can join the Sith (as seen in the Inquisitor story), so the few disadvantages to people of a lower status are entirely societal and not systematized. Ironically this actually means that sometimes the Sith (the not-crazy ones) can sometimes be better liked than a lot of the officers who almost *certainly* come from the aristocratic background.

 

Funny enough the storyline actually lets you see nearly all the different ways Sith philosophy and politics plays out and it's a lot of fun.

[SithKoriandr]

However, when the Jedi say "No love." They mean no attachment. For the Jedi's role in the galaxy, love can often hinder the Jedi.

 

Jedi's love taken hostage? Could ruin how they do their job.

 

Jedi's lover killed? Easy to fall to the dark side and go on a killing spree, because having that access to the force tends to push one's emotions to the extreme. A normal person lashes out, hits a wall. Jedi lashes out, and there's an explosion as all the walls are force pushed apart.

 

Force users are often extreme. Even those who come from a training with it not being about light or dark, Zakuul, they tend to lean dark or light. Lashing out themselves with their force abilities.

 

It's obvious the Jedi love. Even the leaders trying to dissuade it, seem to realize it. More so as they get older.

[Dabrixmgp]

Sith are more practical. Emotion is part of everyone and to ignore it is to deny who you are. Also Jedi arent the goody two-shoes they would have you believe.

[Plk_Lesiak]

However, when the Jedi say "No love." They mean no attachment. For the Jedi's role in the galaxy, love can often hinder the Jedi.

 

Jedi's love taken hostage? Could ruin how they do their job.

 

Jedi's lover killed? Easy to fall to the dark side and go on a killing spree, because having that access to the force tends to push one's emotions to the extreme. A normal person lashes out, hits a wall. Jedi lashes out, and there's an explosion as all the walls are force pushed apart.

 

Force users are often extreme. Even those who come from a training with it not being about light or dark, Zakuul, they tend to lean dark or light. Lashing out themselves with their force abilities.

 

It's obvious the Jedi love. Even the leaders trying to dissuade it, seem to realize it. More so as they get older.

 

Indeed, and it's still one of the reasons that Sith resent the Jedi dogma. It stands completely against the idea of freedom in most possible interpretations. The strict enforcement of the "no attachments" policy the Order employs often costs it dearly, what is expected from the Jedi goes in many ways against human nature and many cannot live up to the ideal.

 

When I think about my LS Inq for example and why he didn't leave the Empire and join the Jedi, his love for Ashara always comes as one of the main problems. While rules of the Order are there for good reasons, living by them might be a sacrifice few are really ready to make, if they truly understand the costs. That's why Jedi are trained from very early age and carefully observed for negative tendencies, while being a Sith is more about following your instincts and bending the force to your will. For them the only selection needed is survival of the fittest, creating an environment where weak are crushed by those better adapted.

 

IMO, in many ways, the Sith are not wrong here, the Jedi sacrifice part of their humanity to become the perfect protectors of the galaxy. While admirable, they definitely are slaves to a dogma that guides their whole existence, while the Sith seek for ultimate freedom - often falling victims to madness or becoming slaves to their own passions, but surely at times achieving freedom and maybe even happiness that is outside of the Jedi's reach.

[Xilizhra]

However, when the Jedi say "No love." They mean no attachment. For the Jedi's role in the galaxy, love can often hinder the Jedi.

 

Jedi's love taken hostage? Could ruin how they do their job.

 

Jedi's lover killed? Easy to fall to the dark side and go on a killing spree, because having that access to the force tends to push one's emotions to the extreme. A normal person lashes out, hits a wall. Jedi lashes out, and there's an explosion as all the walls are force pushed apart.

 

Force users are often extreme. Even those who come from a training with it not being about light or dark, Zakuul, they tend to lean dark or light. Lashing out themselves with their force abilities.

 

It's obvious the Jedi love. Even the leaders trying to dissuade it, seem to realize it. More so as they get older.

Of course, the Padawan system completely trashes the idea of "no attachment," so it'd make more sense for the Jedi to try to regulate it than simply ban it.

[AshlaBoga]

Of course, the Padawan system completely trashes the idea of "no attachment," so it'd make more sense for the Jedi to try to regulate it than simply ban it.

 

Masters are supposed to let their Padawan die to accomplish their mission if the mission is more important to the Jedi Order.

 

But no attachment doesn't mean that you always obey orders.

 

If I was 100% certain my Padawan was required to save 100 lives in the next 10 minutes, I might let 5 people die to save my Padawan so they could save the 100.

That's not attachment, that's utilitarian reasoning.

 

Thus, actions that appear to be based on attachment are often not based on attachment.

[Celise]

The irony on the Jedi side is as great as it is on the sith side honestly.

 

The jedi fight for the weak, to protect them, however without a suitable motivation to drive the jedi into the action to protect the weak, what are they fight for? Fighting by itself without a just cause is not the jedi way and yet the jedi in question has to clear their head in battle.

 

Meaning there has to be a cause or a motivation that is often hidden from other jedi, yet a jedi is not meant to form attachments and the most ironic part is that they all have to form an attachment to fight to protect the weak because no one else will which is a form of power in itself and because the Jedi code demands it. People rarely act on one motivation and a jedi is no different.

 

The sith on the other hand say that emotions are the greatest weapon a Sith can have and yet more often than not those same emotions kill more sith on a regular basis and patience is instead encouraged for sith which is the complete opposite of their belief to to act rashly and without good reason.

Edited May 13, 2017 by Celise

[TalonVII]

Biggest problem I've ever had with the jedi, is that they want this monastic warrior savior, and just say "don't feel, or let go of these evil emotions" and never really tell a jedi how to DEAL with those emotions.

 

Had Yoda actually taken the time to HELP Anakin instead of feeding him ideological bull****, he might of prevented Anakin from falling.

[banimoka]

the Sith way of using the force is based on bending the force to do their bidding , that's how they increase their power

 

- a dark side sith will be focused on hurting his enemies , making them suffer , to increase his power in the force

- on the other side of the spectrum a Light side Sith will still use the force the same way by bending it to the character's will but will not kill unworthy enemies just for the " passion " release