Dumbing down of the game, good or bad?

[DownloadStarter]

Money talks, folks. Bioware listens to the loudest talkers, same as any business in a capitalist system. It's standard operating procedure.

 

Bioware has found they can get more money out of the theme park crowd. Apparently, the crowd that likes a challenge hasn't been as free-flowing at the wallet.

 

I guarantee you that if this changes, you'll see more challenge in the game.

 

If you want something done in the here and now, we are past the stage where empty threats from singular people or small groups are summarily ignored. Money talks. SJW walks.

 

You want change? Open up the wallets and show Bioware the money. And make sure it's more than the theme park patrons are showing.

[Shaystern]

^^ Exactly.

 

But apparently the person you replied to needs the studio to gimp the entire game just so he does not have to lift a finger to "tune" his companion to be suitably nerfed for his personal needs/wants.

 

So you don't see the problem? Congratulations, the game is boring thanks to people like you.

[IanArgent]

Ian, FFS, please don't make me spell it out for you! Read again what I wrote. Read again what TUXs and I discussed regarding heroics! Pay attention man.

 

OK, last time please pay attention!

 

Base point: introduce level sync

Feature point: keep heroics original/intended difficulty - heavily optional content, supplying bit better gear than class/planetary quests(basically entry level gear for Flashpoints)

Added value: Heroic hub on planets and on fleet with transport - eliminating quest givers apperance in solo section(the horror...)

Bonus: payout in relevance of intended player involvement(more players needed, more credits earned by player involved - basically what we got in 4.0)

 

Forget KotFE and the Alliance grind, the creative department of BWA should've come up with a new/fresh 'grind' stuff instead of dumbing down heroics. They did not come up with anything new(refer to discussion by TUXs and me about rehashing heroics).

 

Repeateable and farmable content should've been new daily areas. Period.

 

I'm not particularly saying what you want is wrong. To a certain extent I agree with you - I would have liked to have seen "bite-sized" group content, which Heroics were apparently supposed to have been prior to 4.x and weren't because you could overlevel them. But the heroics as-implemented were not good candidates for group content for a number of reasons, not just that there wasn't a Group Finder equivalent for them. Very few of them are instanced, and even several of the Heroics that have instanced content are not sufficiently instanced. It's effectively impossible to do several heroics in anything liek a reaosnable time on several planets now that people are rewarded for repeating heroics, and several more it's very difficult to do the bonus quests.

[Darkbloom]

 

Bioware has found they can get more money out of the theme park crowd. Apparently, the crowd that likes a challenge hasn't been as free-flowing at the wallet.

 

I guarantee you that if this changes, you'll see more challenge in the game.

 

 

Doesn't anyone remember what happened when they tried to nerf the companions after 4.0?

 

I was one of the people that thought companions were way too powerful. I was also one of the people who posted repeatedly, hoping that Bioware would listen that it was a terrible idea to nerf the companions. I said that people would get so angry about it that they would unsub.

 

I suggested that they have some version of a hard mode, instead. In that hard mode, people could have less powerful companions.

 

Well they didn't listen to me, nor to any of the rest of us who tried to warn them. Predictably, they nerfed companions. Then, just as predictably, the customers who actually matter--the ones spending a lot of money--were furious. The companions were (predictably) un-nerfed.

 

So here we are.

 

For those of you who want more challenge in solo play, particularly the 1-50 stories that we all love so much, I would encourage you to campaign for some version of veteran/master modes for those levels. You might get that.

 

But make the core, story-line game more challenging? Not going to happen.

[Andryah]

So you don't see the problem? Congratulations, the game is boring thanks to people like you.

 

No.. I do not see a problem with making the leveling ramp in this MMO fast and smooth 5 years after launch. There is plenty of more challenging content in this game if you want it. But it requires a reasonable amount of being social and willing to work with other players on small group content sub cap and larger groups at cap.

 

If I want difficult content in this game, it's not hard to find. Nor is it hard to throttle a companion if I feel they are over-powered to the challenge I seek. Difficult is not hard to find in this MMO if you actually want it.

 

Try it. Stop being a victim and adjust some knobs on your companion if you want more challenge. Or.. run without a companion entirely.

 

What I do not want to see is the studio making the leveling ramp difficult for newer players such that it is difficult for them to level up and become effective veteran players.

Edited May 13, 2017 by Andryah

[SimplyCooL]

The experience of 1-60 is objectively too easy and Bioware is fully aware of this fact. Well, why not - its completely intentional. Now subjectively, some people will be not be bothered by this in the slightest, some will find it a positive and others yet will go "Its true, but i'm here for the story, or end game, or PVP, or whatever, so hey-ho". OK- OK.

 

Still doesn't change the fact, that its too easy. Hell launch was easy.

 

This leveling experience is literally designed to play itself. You can switch your companion to DPS Mode, switch his abilities off, then target almost anything in the game and that thing will surely die. Your participation and input is not required. And somehow, lots of people are perplexed, why the topic keeps coming up. :rak_02:

 

All you need to do is yell "Sick him boy", and your little pet will shred some to the lore toughest enemies to shreds. Now this trend for casualising an MMO's content, after the honeymoon period is over, is certainly nothing unique too Bioware's approach. The " No drooling mongoloid left behind. " is certainly standard procedure, yet somehow i think even other MMOs will laugh this game out of the room. Or like i said, at least the 1-60 experience will.

 

For a while there, Bioware's been quite happy to ignore this chunk to the game. "Yeah, whatever, its there, if its so important to ya. But End Game is where the cool kids are at, or our new Chapters, that have less role-play and more corridor. Look, they even have difficulty modes, cause you wouldn't stop crying about it."

 

"But Bioware", says I, " I want to play in the big, pretty and expansive sandbox area, that obviously took a lot of work and effort and also want know that if i slip for a bathroom break, i'll come back to find my companion a weeping mess, quietly sh***ng itself on the floor. "

 

And regardless of what others say, there really is no way to mold the experience to your liking. You know, short off dismissing your chum, thus making the USP of this game a none-thing.

 

You can stroll around naked and beat your companion, until they can barely hold their blaster, and its still too easy. And the thing is, it's its easily rectifiable in many ways, but why should Bioware fix it, or, at least, offer some sort of adjustable band aid, when they got the excuse " Well a lot of our players, prefer it this way. So you know, p*** off."

Edited May 14, 2017 by SimplyCooL

[ivanhedgehog]

The experience of 1-60 is objectively too easy and Bioware is fully aware of this fact. Well, why not - its completely intentional. Now subjectively, some people will be not be bothered by this in the slightest, some will find it a positive and others yet will go "Its true, but i'm here for the story, or end game, or PVP, or whatever, so hey-ho". OK- OK.

 

Still doesn't change the fact, that its too easy. Hell launch was easy.

 

This leveling experience is literally designed to play itself. You can switch your companion to DPS Mode, switch his abilities off, then target almost anything in the game and that thing will surely die. Your participation and input is not required. And somehow, lots of people are perplexed, why the topic keeps coming up. :rak_02:

 

All you need to do is yell "Sick him boy", and your little pet will shred some to the lore toughest enemies to shreds. Now this trend for casualising an MMO's content, after the honeymoon period is over, is certainly nothing unique too Bioware's approach. The " No drooling mongoloid left behind. " is certainly standard procedure, yet somehow i think even other MMOs will laugh this game out of the room. Or like i said, at least the 1-60 experience will.

 

For a while there, Bioware's been quite happy to ignore this chunk to the game. "Yeah, whatever, its there, if its so important to ya. But End Game is where the cool kids are at, or our new Chapters, that have less role-play and more corridor. Look, they even have difficulty modes, cause you wouldn't stop crying about it."

 

"But Bioware", says I, " I want to play in the big, pretty and expansive sandbox area, that obviously took a lot of work and effort and also want know that if i slip for a bathroom break, i'll come back to find my companion a weeping mess, quietly sh***ng itself on the floor. "

 

And regardless of what others say, there really is no way to mold the experience to your liking. You know, short off dismissing your chum, thus making the USP of this game a none-thing.

 

You can stroll around naked and beat your companion, until they can barely hold their blaster, and its still too easy. And the thing is, it's its easily rectifiable in many ways, but why should Bioware fix it, or, at least, offer some sort of adjustable band aid, when they got the excuse " Well a lot of our players, prefer it this way. So you know, p*** off."

you say this bs over and over and you are still wrong. Disable your comp and you have plenty of challenge. Let your comp do everything and you will be hours doing anything. They may be able to solo...at a glacial pace. you might find that fun, but then there are people that hang themselves from hooks. If you are looking for a hardcore game, swtor is the wrong place. Wildstar advertised itself as hardcore and look at where they are now. Bioware wants to remain employed, they wont turn the game into a hardcore mess.

[stoopicus]

If more PvE players would run without companions and learn to use their DCDs, they might find PvP more entertaining when they try it.

[btmart]

The good of level sync far outweighs the bad. The problem is you...you're looking for a "challenge" without actually looking for one. Dismiss your companion, put them on passive, disable some of their skills...you're whining about LEVELING fluff content, which has NEVER been "challenging" - and should NOT be. You want a challenge? Do group activities without a group. Try a FP with 2 players. PvP. Try an Uprising with 2. Instead of looking to make the casual story crap harder, break out of your solo only mindset and try the content that's meant to be challenging.

Or do HM/NiM progression raids or PvP... then, well you know. But that's not for everyone lol. However if just playing vanilla SWTOR Chapters 1-3 or KOTFE/KOTET, then it's just spacebaring and AoE'ing for the most part.

Edited May 15, 2017 by btmart

[WelbyWars]

Wildstar advertised itself as hardcore and look at where they are now. Bioware wants to remain employed, they wont turn the game into a hardcore mess.

 

I enjoyed WS alot. Not counting the hackers!

 

The pvp was fun. Of course the same fotm op classes plagued it like all other mmos. But the one thing that could be thought of as 'hardcore' at that time was the forced grouping.

 

It created bottlenecks for casuals and solos. And they screamed bloody murder for a solo option.

 

They may of changed it by now but too little too late as you pointed out.

 

I find heroics to be mildly harder than normal world/story missions. And by harder i mean 'takes longer'. Companions are nuts. But ok fine,..i get it,..keep the f2p experience casual to appeal to more people.

 

But i do hope grouping FP/Ops can be a place to find challenge and appropriate risk/reward come endgame.

[IanArgent]

I find heroics to be mildly harder than normal world/story missions. And by harder i mean 'takes longer'.

 

Until BW:A can prove that they can reliably do "difficult" and not "tedious" in solo play, I would be wary of "difficulty" in the solo game.

[ZeroTypeR]

It's not that it was extremely difficult, it wasn't, especially for some people who are just naturally good at computer games (which isn't everyone). But you have to admit that the difficulty lvl compared to then has been dumbed down a lot. To the point that even those people who may have found it challenging back then, now find it so easy that it's boring.

My wife is one of those players who isn't a naturally gifted gamer. I often had to group with her so she could get some content done. But now she scoffs at how easy it is and can't believe how dumbed down the game is. She also doesn't play the game much and hasn't even finished all the class stories yet. So it's not that she played so much that she actually got a lot better.

The game is now ridiculously easy.

 

That's about how I've felt over the past 2 years. Combining this^ with the lack of options (story mode flashpoints to break up the routine, no non-sync instance), is why I haven't been playing much these days, I'm bored.

Edited May 16, 2017 by ZeroTypeR

[-Bob-]

Dumbing down of the game, good or bad?.

It's necessary to keep pace with the dumbing down of society

[Kagekeishu]

It's necessary to keep pace with the dumbing down of society

 

Best thing I've read here in the board so far within the last few months .!!

 

 

Best regards

Kage

[Soljin]

It's necessary to keep pace with the dumbing down of society

 

Scary thing about this is that it's not by accident... Dumb and occupied = Passive.

[Brother_Wolf_NZ]

I've notice there really is no more challenge to SWTOR anymore, I think they took the worst player they could find and dumb down PvE so much that even that person could win. The biggest issue I see is healing, companions are so OP in healing that you never die, no matter what mistakes you make. Same with PvP, healing is so out of control that it can take half the team just to kill a guarded healer (if the healer and tank are fully geared).... What happen to healers only extending the life of team mates? Fully geared healers can make people live forever... I know you want to give healers a chance as people will team up on them but if you reduce the healing capabilities in warzones you could offset it with survivability skills that can keep them from being quickly ganged up on. Maybe just make this abilities only work in warzones so as not to unbalance PvE Healing.

 

Without challenge people will get bored and move on even if you keep giving them 250% xp bonuses.. There's like only two severs that are even populated anymore... I think that tells you right there that Bioware has failed in coming up with unique game play to keep people interested, instead of finding talented people to run the game they have gotten untalented people, people with no imagination or skills, all they've done is dumb down the game and try spend all their time making stuff for the Cartel Market to try and keep the game afloat. BORING....

 

It's not actually Bioware that are responsible. Believe me, I've addressed this many times over. A great and ultra number of people refuse to Tank and Heal, thinking the two specs are too hard towards saying that they're boring as hell, so they prefer to stick to DPS and DPS only through out the entire game. And it's been seen everywhere, possibly on all the servers. So what's the challenge if people won't do Tanking and Healing, as well as DPS? I've tried saying that Tanking and Healing is just as much fun as DPS, but they won't listen! Personally, I love all 3 specs. It's great to seek a good enough challenge every once in a while, but these people just don't want have anything to do with Tanking and Healing at all what so ever. And that's why most people consider this game is actually dying, but I don't believe that.

 

If these people just go Tanking and Healing for once in their lives, they'll find it much fun just as DPS.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Brother_Wolf_NZ

[Edyn]

It's necessary to keep pace with the dumbing down of society

So... how do we solve this in the gaming community? The only thing I can think of is to somehow effectively shame all of the dumb players who apparently have the most money to throw at gaming companies into understanding that they're just giving corporations money for pixels... rather than money for an experience.

 

No one in my gaming circle, who have all been gaming for almost two decades, thinks it's fun to be able to just hit #1 on the keyboard and strafe around a little bit in order to get to the ending credits. I really want to know who these players are that think fun is a Star Wars MMORPG where the only way they can essentially die is to fall off a ledge while paying $60 for a single set of pixels that resemble a lightsaber from a movie. At this rate, players will eventually just pay $60 for the staff roll without ever even playing the game.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Edyn

[MandFlurry]

IMO, dumbing down of the game was the second worst decision they've ever made in this game.

 

a lot of us players here are well over 40 and get arthritis from playing these games as far back as the 80's and with our jobs being hellous, when we play this game we like the Option of the Story/ Veteran and Master modes. No good reason to stop this program that will attract new people of all varieties and physical issues as well. That's a good thing.

 

To some other Posters that are not being intelligent here and offensive. Their a Lot of people with bad physical problems. So, to have the 3 different Modes is a very good win win idea. The customer can always choose with exception to the PvE environment on world.

Edited May 17, 2017 by MandFlurry

[Icykill_]

a lot of us players here are well over 40 and get arthritis from playing these games as far back as the 80's and with our jobs being hellous, when we play this game we like the Option of the Story/ Veteran and Master modes. No good reason to stop this program that will attract new people of all varieties and physical issues as well. That's a good thing.

 

To some other Posters that are not being intelligent here and offensive. Their a Lot of people with bad physical problems. So, to have the 3 different Modes is a very good win win idea. The customer can always choose with exception to the PvE environment on world.

 

LoL, both my wife and I are md 40s and my wife has wrist issues and she finds it stupidly easy. So the excuse you wrote is a completely nonsensical reason to dumb it down.

This game was already relatively easy, but now it's been dumbed down that my 72 year old mother with severe arthritis can do quests easily, which is sad and also annoying because she keeps asking me to read the choices out to her 🙄

 

As for the 3 different modes, I hate to burst your bubble on the customer having the choice, those 3 modes only work in the latest end game story content and not the original vanilla content.

If they were available for the vanilla content I think that would be an awesome feature and I don't think anyone would have an issue with having an easy (dumbed down) mode.

This could be achieved just by having the old settings restored and disabling lvl sync. Then call it veteran or original mode.

 

I think if you did a survey of players who try the game and then leave it, you would find that one of the reasons they left was the game was too easy. People want some sort of challenge when playing a game, why do you think mobile games like Candy crush are so popular, its because there is some lvl of challenge that increases as you progress.

 

If all people want is a story, why not read a Star Wars book, they are much better than this games story. Or they could go find some TV series or movie to watch. If it's the SW animation they are into there are two SW animation series they can watch.

 

I think your reasons for it being dumbed down are very weak and I'm sure if you tried to use such a weak argument in your "hellous" job your boss would tell you to go back and do it again.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Icykill_

[Icykill_]

So... how do we solve this in the gaming community? The only thing I can think of is to somehow effectively shame all of the dumb players who apparently have the most money to throw at gaming companies into understanding that they're just giving corporations money for pixels... rather than money for an experience.

 

No one in my gaming circle, who have all been gaming for almost two decades, thinks it's fun to be able to just hit #1 on the keyboard and strafe around a little bit in order to get to the ending credits. I really want to know who these players are that think fun is a Star Wars MMORPG where the only way they can essentially die is to fall off a ledge while paying $60 for a single set of pixels that resemble a lightsaber from a movie. At this rate, players will eventually just pay $60 for the staff roll without ever even playing the game.

 

The biggest turn off for me if I try a new game is if its stupidly easy, which makes it boring. I will quickly stop playing if that's the case.

[ivanhedgehog]

The biggest turn off for me if I try a new game is if its stupidly easy, which makes it boring. I will quickly stop playing if that's the case.

 

Thing is, in this game it is very easy to give yourself challenge. the only thing you cant do is give OTHER people challenge. This is not a problem as they are big boys and girls and can control their own difficulty. If you want challenge, it is yours for the asking. Have fun.

[Shipwright]

The good of level sync far outweighs the bad. The problem is you...you're looking for a "challenge" without actually looking for one. Dismiss your companion, put them on passive, disable some of their skills...you're whining about LEVELING fluff content, which has NEVER been "challenging" - and should NOT be. You want a challenge? Do group activities without a group. Try a FP with 2 players. PvP. Try an Uprising with 2. Instead of looking to make the casual story crap harder, break out of your solo only mindset and try the content that's meant to be challenging.

 

I must agree with you here. Very much this.

[Icykill_]

Thing is, in this game it is very easy to give yourself challenge. the only thing you cant do is give OTHER people challenge. This is not a problem as they are big boys and girls and can control their own difficulty. If you want challenge, it is yours for the asking. Have fun.

 

What challenge? There is no challenge in any of the pve content prior to lvl 50 except pvp and even that isn't that hard for most people in lowbies or mids.

If I had to wait till that sort of lvl in a game for a challenge I would expect the rest of the game above to be the same. I certainly wouldn't hang around past lvl 20

[Edyn]

When I happen to engage in something boring, tedious or trivial, my first instinct is to look for something more interesting to do. Why in the galaxy should I have to spend my own time jumping through hoops in order to jerry-rig a game to be more challenging and enjoyable while I, at the same time, give the developers my subscription money that ultimately supports things that aren't challenging and enjoyable*?

 

Personally, I really wish there were different difficulty modes for all aspects of the game, especially repeatable Vanilla Class stories, Planetary Missions and Exploration Missions. That way, players of all demographics would have the potential to enjoy the game on their own level.

 

*Cartel Market

Edited May 17, 2017 by Edyn

[Icykill_]

I must agree with you here. Very much this.

 

I used to do what Tux said for a challenge and that was before they dumbed it down, so it wasn't that hard.

 

I would try and get off Drommund Kaas by lvl 13. I would run FPs solo when I was 2-4 lvls below the recommended lvl for 2-4 players to do. I could actually speed run Black Talon solo in 13-14 mins (it was the fastest way to get Dark Side points). I would often disable my companion if they weren't essential for the story. My friends and I used to have a competition to see how fast we could clear all the dailies solo on Illum (section x) without a companion. 13 mins 21 secs was my record and unbeaten in my social circle. Nearly every planet I went to the first time had red mission status because I was below the recommended lvl.

 

The only challenge for me left in this game is pvp when I'm playing good players.

 

If they were to actually make lvl sync set at the correct lvls and not have it so high, then it would be better. But companions are still OP and should also be nerfed when using planet sync, especially if you have more abilities than you would have had at that lvl.

 

The ideal solution is to add a veteran option based on the old difficulty lvl and have the ability to turn off lvl sync for the old vanilla swtor prior to them dumbing down the game. Currently the story, veteran and master mode is only available for end game chapters and you need to do the story mode first 🙄. You can't even choose veteran or master mode to do first, you have to do story and if you want a challenge you have to do it all over again 😡 No thanks, one time is enough.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Icykill_