5.2 Gear Gap is Wrecking New Players

[jedcjedcjedc]

Crafting will indeed fix a lot. In fact for me it will fix everything, but for others, probably less so.

 

As long as we're LARPing Princess Bride here, for me the lack of mats in 5.2 was INCONCEIVABLE

 

I had a thread for JC to build whatever people needed for them. only some took advantage. guess people just want to yell but not do anything about it, lol.

[Icykill_]

I had a thread for JC to build whatever people needed for them. only some took advantage. guess people just want to yell but not do anything about it, lol.

 

How much are they though?

 

To gear that way on Harb would cost 10-30 mil. Plus you can't get 248 items through crafting. Also don't forget gear bonuses.

[themachinemann]

Yes, agreed, but I'll add it's also the hybrid players who take pvp more casually than the dedicated pvpers, so a gear gap is also important to them to be competitive.

 

fixing your perceived gear gap won't make randoms competitive against "dedicated pvpers". in fact, give randoms max gear and "dedicated pvpers" bolster, it'll be exactly the same result and then you'll come to the forums claiming it was rigged or complaining about cheating or whatever.

 

the solution to your problem is stopping the "dedicated pvpers" from bashing noobs, instead you're too busy insisting you can be competitive if they fix the minuscule gap between max gear rating and bolster.

[Seterade]

Despite having the 6 crafting, I haven't bothered to craft because I can't get 246 schem. Am I the only one with this issue? They sure don't drop from my sins lv 300 crates or from his ranked weekly.

[Icykill_]

fixing your perceived gear gap won't make randoms competitive against "dedicated pvpers". in fact, give randoms max gear and "dedicated pvpers" bolster, it'll be exactly the same result and then you'll come to the forums claiming it was rigged or complaining about cheating or whatever.

 

the solution to your problem is stopping the "dedicated pvpers" from bashing noobs, instead you're too busy insisting you can be competitive if they fix the minuscule gap between max gear rating and bolster.

 

And how do you propose to stop dedicated pvpers bashing noobs or dedicated BiS players bashing entry lvl geared dedicated pvpers.

 

Having no gear gap reduces the advantage of dedicated BiS pvper from bashing low geared dedicated pvpers. I think you'll find that is the biggest issue for the dedicated players.

[Icykill_]

Despite having the 6 crafting, I haven't bothered to craft because I can't get 246 schem. Am I the only one with this issue? They sure don't drop from my sins lv 300 crates or from his ranked weekly.

 

I believe you can only get those schematics in OPs

[Seterade]

fixing your perceived gear gap won't make randoms competitive against "dedicated pvpers". in fact, give randoms max gear and "dedicated pvpers" bolster, it'll be exactly the same result and then you'll come to the forums claiming it was rigged or complaining about cheating or whatever.

 

the solution to your problem is stopping the "dedicated pvpers" from bashing noobs, instead you're too busy insisting you can be competitive if they fix the minuscule gap between max gear rating and bolster.

 

I can't speak for randoms, but as a two year "dedicated pvper" the bolster would do worlds of good. You say miniscule difference. Have you made a 70 yet in 5.2 and just started from scrap? A lot of new subscribers have to. I don't know much of your skill or gear, but if you think the difference is miniscule I can only assume you are using recycled gear from 5.1.

 

I'm no leet player but I use cds well but it didn't make a difference. 5 hours ago on my gunslinger I activated both dodge and shield probe (with increased SP def) my gun slinger melted through his cds. in purple 230 gear.

[jedcjedcjedc]

How much are they though?

 

To gear that way on Harb would cost 10-30 mil. Plus you can't get 248 items through crafting. Also don't forget gear bonuses.

 

they just bring me the mats and i craft it for them. mostly just the purple mats even, as I have a metric ton of those assembly pieces whatever they're called again. this was back when 242 was top tier. i can still make 240's and that's still over bolster, and only 8 behind top which is where bolster usually will leave you anyway.

[Icykill_]

they just bring me the mats and i craft it for them. mostly just the purple mats even, as I have a metric ton of those assembly pieces whatever they're called again. this was back when 242 was top tier. i can still make 240's and that's still over bolster, and only 8 behind top which is where bolster usually will leave you anyway.

 

wow, that's really cool of you.. never met any on Harb who would do that

[Dewlmenow]

I believe you can only get those schematics in OPs

 

You can't get anything above 240 schematics right now period. There was a bit where you could RE 246 gear to get schematics, but I believe that's been patched out.

 

As for the main point, I agree that bolster should be bumped up (maybe to 242), but it's really not much of an issue. I took a break for a few months a little after 5.0 released and came back not too long before 5.2 with 230 gear. I noticed my damage/heals went up a fair bit after upgrading my gear but it wasn't gamebreaking or anything near the level of the current class imbalances.

Edited May 20, 2017 by Dewlmenow

[stoopicus]

I had a thread for JC to build whatever people needed for them. only some took advantage. guess people just want to yell but not do anything about it, lol.

 

If you could craft 246 I would have no issue. I can make all the 240 things I want too, but 240 is the new 200.

 

Being able to RE the stuff you want but not be able to get the mats... well played, BW. Well played.

Edited May 20, 2017 by stoopicus

[stoopicus]

I believe you can only get those schematics in OPs

 

Nah, you get them from REing purple 246 from crates. You can RE it now, but the mats aren't in-game yet. Versatile Armorings were bugged, but they fixed it. That's why you see 246 armorings on the GTN for 8-10mil each right now.

 

Bought mine at 1.5mil and I feel very lucky

Edited May 20, 2017 by stoopicus

[jedcjedcjedc]

If you could craft 246 I would have no issue. I can make all the 240 things I want too, but 240 is the new 200.

 

Being able to RE the stuff you want but not be able to get the mats... well played, BW. Well played.

 

well ya, at that point, 242 was top. once the new schematics come out it'll be the same thing with 246.

[stoopicus]

well ya, at that point, 242 was top. once the new schematics come out it'll be the same thing with 246.

 

Yup. Like I said, crafting will fix it all for me. The problem is that for most people, people like you who do it gratis are few and far between (for people not in guilds anyway).

[themachinemann]

I can't speak for randoms, but as a two year "dedicated pvper" the bolster would do worlds of good. You say miniscule difference. Have you made a 70 yet in 5.2 and just started from scrap? A lot of new subscribers have to. I don't know much of your skill or gear, but if you think the difference is miniscule I can only assume you are using recycled gear from 5.1.

 

I'm no leet player but I use cds well but it didn't make a difference. 5 hours ago on my gunslinger I activated both dodge and shield probe (with increased SP def) my gun slinger melted through his cds. in purple 230 gear.

 

look, i'm honestly just trying to help and save you all from being back here after they change bolster. dead serious, even if they changed bolster people will be back here a week later claiming it's rigged. and yeah, i started a fresh assassin on harbinger since 5.2 and averaged 3-4k dps in stock gear. over time it's getting better, i'd say it's more to do with becoming better at the class than any gear benefit. but feel free to take that anecdotal evidence and do whatever you like with it.

 

congrats on using 2 of your cd's. look honestly i'm not interested in one off examples of "oh look how poorly i did! game must be rigged!" (but i've just gotta add, the sp utility is pretty weak and not many take it. see sink's sniper pvp guides for some useful tips). I'm just trying to save people from flooding back to complain on the forums once they do change bolster. like i said, a matchmaking change to get good players out of noob stomping (possibly based on account-wide valor, or overhauling the ranked pvp system) would do a world of good compared to a negligible bolster fix.

 

all that said, maybe you need this. maybe people need them to change bolster to 250 for a week then watch the forums become flooded with complaints about how rigged it is, rage over class nerfs, cheaters, whatever else.

Edited May 20, 2017 by themachinemann

[stoopicus]

Do you have a point in there somewhere? Bolster was 250 in December and January and it was awesome.

 

My main and most of my alts are above bolster now anyway so I have no skin in this game - I actually benefit from the gear gap at this point, but I can totally understand why people want bolster to be un-nerfed.

Edited May 20, 2017 by stoopicus

[Giliodor]

Although I have found it very doable to perform well with the 230 gear that I am using, I think in a PvP environment, everyone should be (almost) equal. The gear system that used to be in place was, to me, absolutely ideal. I could get a full set of t1 pvp gear in a day, and grind my way towards the t2 gear, which wouldn't take a long time to get either.

 

After coming back to the game a week or two ago, I have found that the gear is what just makes me want to quit playing the game again. It's too much of a grind. People don't play PvP to grind gear. That's what PvE is for. PvP is meant to be competitive.

 

I don't even know why they removed the old pvp gear... It was the best that I've seen in any MMO.

[stoopicus]

Although I have found it very doable to perform well with the 230 gear that I am using, I think in a PvP environment, everyone should be (almost) equal. The gear system that used to be in place was, to me, absolutely ideal. I could get a full set of t1 pvp gear in a day, and grind my way towards the t2 gear, which wouldn't take a long time to get either.

 

After coming back to the game a week or two ago, I have found that the gear is what just makes me want to quit playing the game again. It's too much of a grind. People don't play PvP to grind gear. That's what PvE is for. PvP is meant to be competitive.

 

I don't even know why they removed the old pvp gear... It was the best that I've seen in any MMO.

 

That's just the thing, right? What we had was great. Galactic Crapshoot only serves to force grind and empower bads.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

like i said, a matchmaking change to get good players out of noob stomping (possibly based on account-wide valor, or overhauling the ranked pvp system) would do a world of good compared to a negligible bolster fix.

 

all that said, maybe you need this. maybe people need them to change bolster to 250 for a week then watch the forums become flooded with complaints about how rigged it is, rage over class nerfs, cheaters, whatever else.

 

And how exactly do you propose to make a determination of who's "good" and who's a "noob" for automated matchmaking purposes, because Valor level certainly can't do that. You can loose every match you ever play and do three points of damage total every match and you will still eventually reach valor 100. All valor measures is how long you're there, not how well you do. And the rank system is broken beyond belief and is constantly exploited and again is no measure of skill.

 

If you separate the "goods" from the "bads", you ensure that the "bads" will stay bad. Sparing them the realities of PVP and differences in skill level will teach them nothing and they will only continue to stay "bad" because they're always only fighting other "bads".

 

Not only that, when you start making enforced labeling like that, you are just going to increase the level of toxicity in PVP and drive more people away from PVP because no one want's to be walking around with the label "I'm bad at PVP" sewn onto their shirts.

 

We had to fight people who were better than us when we started out who were kicking our asses left and right. There is not one PVPer who did not get his *** handed to him repeatedly and constantly when they first started out. Even experience as a NiM raider will not make that otherwise. PVP is it's own beast and only first hand experience with all skilll levels in the mix can tame that beast.

 

In war, the soldier with the machine gun doesn't take it easy against an enemy soldier with a revolver. That he has advantage in "gear" also doesn't mean that the soldier with the revolver can't shoot him in the face. The odds for the soldier with the machine gun are better than the soldier with the revolver, but the outcome is not written in stone.

 

You must adapt if you are to survive and you cannot adapt if there is nothing that makes it necessary to do so. There is no fair or unfair in combat, there is dead and alive.

 

Calm seas make bad sailors.

[themachinemann]

And how exactly do you propose to make a determination of who's "good" and who's a "noob" for automated matchmaking purposes, because Valor level certainly can't do that. You can loose every match you ever play and do three points of damage total every match and you will still eventually reach valor 100. All valor measures is how long you're there, not how well you do. And the rank system is broken beyond belief and is constantly exploited and again is no measure of skill.

 

talking generally, my friend. generally the more games you play the better you get. if someone plays 1000 games and still doesn't know what a dcd is i feel bad for them. and yes ranked is broken, so i suggested an overhaul (likely won't happen but ok)

 

If you separate the "goods" from the "bads", you ensure that the "bads" will stay bad. Sparing them the realities of PVP and differences in skill level will teach them nothing and they will only continue to stay "bad" because they're always only fighting other "bads".

 

Not only that, when you start making enforced labeling like that, you are just going to increase the level of toxicity in PVP and drive more people away from PVP because no one want's to be walking around with the label "I'm bad at PVP" sewn onto their shirts.

 

this thread is largely written by the casuals who don't want to work to get better or grind, so the arguments about people getting better are largely irrelevant. those people that want to improve can continue to do so against players of similar skill, and those that don't want to might even learn something and be less inclined to go sit on their node for half the match. obviously it wouldn't be labelled "bads", that's a ridiculous argument.

 

In war, the soldier with the machine gun doesn't take it easy against an enemy soldier with a revolver. That he has advantage in "gear" also doesn't mean that the soldier with the revolver can't shoot him in the face. The odds for the soldier with the machine gun are better than the soldier with the revolver, but the outcome is not written in stone.

 

yeah... that's a really poor analogy sorry.

 

 

edit: just a few of the 5.0 complaint threads, from when bolster was HIGHER than max gear. just proves people are looking for things to complain about, rather than pros/cons of bolster.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=906667 bolster changes called "a step in the right direction"

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=907030 complaints about "gearing"

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=905765 more people complaining about "gearing"

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=903000 bolster complaints

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=902967 gearing

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=902640 "finally managed to kill competitive skill-based PvP in this game"

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=899793 rant

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=908680 bolster

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=910336 lolrant about people being "overgeared"

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=910039 not exactly related, but claiming that people doing 6-7k dps was "cheating" lol. featuring the comment "Even if you had full 242(which would be like winning the lottery, twice), people in full 230, will have better stats than you."

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=8385884&postcount=7 not 5.0 but oh look

Edited May 21, 2017 by themachinemann

[Kurj]

talking generally, my friend. generally the more games you play the better you get. if someone plays 1000 games and still doesn't know what a dcd is i feel bad for them. and yes ranked is broken, so i suggested an overhaul (likely won't happen but ok)

 

 

 

this thread is largely written by the casuals who don't want to work to get better or grind, so the arguments about people getting better are largely irrelevant. those people that want to improve can continue to do so against players of similar skill, and those that don't want to might even learn something and be less inclined to go sit on their node for half the match. obviously it wouldn't be labelled "bads", that's a ridiculous argument.

 

 

 

yeah... that's a really poor analogy sorry.

 

I started this thread, and I was well geared at the time and am better geared now. I like gearing. What I don't like is seeing potential new PVPers chased out of WZs because geared players can roflstomp them at will. I don't think it's good for the game. That is all. So, you can make all of the assumptions you want, but you're late to the conversation and apparently not very familiar with the participants.

 

P.S. Grim's analogy is spot on.

Edited May 20, 2017 by Kurj

[stoopicus]

I started this thread, and I was well geared at the time and am better geared now. I like gearing. What I don't like is seeing potential new PVPers chased out of WZs because geared players can roflstomp them at will. I don't think it's good for the game. That is all. So, you can make all of the assumptions you want, but you're late to the conversation and apparently not very familiar with the participants.

 

P.S. Grim's analogy is spot on.

 

Yeah, I mean, he can LARP the Filthy Casuals meme guy all he wants, but most people posting in this thread are several hundred command crates deep at this point. Apparently people that disagree with him are casuals.

Edited May 20, 2017 by stoopicus

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

talking generally, my friend. generally the more games you play the better you get. if someone plays 1000 games and still doesn't know what a dcd is i feel bad for them. and yes ranked is broken, so i suggested an overhaul (likely won't happen but ok)

 

 

 

this thread is largely written by the casuals who don't want to work to get better or grind, so the arguments about people getting better are largely irrelevant. those people that want to improve can continue to do so against players of similar skill, and those that don't want to might even learn something and be less inclined to go sit on their node for half the match. obviously it wouldn't be labelled "bads", that's a ridiculous argument.

 

I have no issue with different points of view, hell, that's what the forums are for in this first place. If we all felt the same about things there'd be little reason to share our thoughts and points of view.

 

Where on earth, however, you have come to the notion that this thread is written by casuals who don't want to work together or grind, I cannot even begin to imagine. There are untolds amounts of commentary that would point in the exact opposite direction of such a conclusion.

 

I've stated before -I'm a progression Raider [Hm/Nim] I love gear grinding.I hope they release new gear with greater frequency. BIG gearing should not be quick nor easy. UCs shouldn't be increased.Gear is the carrot on the stick.I DONT think people who do not engage in end game Raiding/PVP should have any way whatsoever of getting BIS gear.

 

To anyone who had actually read some of the posts in this section and had the capacity to remember a thought, it would be impossible to have missed is that almost every single person who posts with any regularity in the PVP section are almost universally in agreement that end game PVP should be about skill vs skill, not gear.

 

Now personally, I could care less if there are gear differences or not. I am of the notion that those difference while they plainly exist, are not massive in any sence of the word, but I would be a fool not to recognize that there is a difference in performance in some degree between people who operating at the bolster level and those who are in full 248 BIS gear. I don't think that difference is earth shattering, but even if that difference in the way of 2%, PVPers don't want that. They want pure unaltered skill being the only factor. I would hardly call that a casual point of view.

 

I'm a raider first and foremost, that is my first love, so to raiders, gear means something, it always has and if you are as experienced in other MMOs as you stated, you must recognize that. BIS Gear, in this game, has always been up until 5.0 crocked up, the sole province of progression raiders. Raiders love their gear.

 

Hardcore PVPers could not give a rats *** about gear. Why should they? They never really had to before. PVP gear was the work of a few days at most and than you were all done. It's not that way anymore. Theyre not really ************ that it takes too long to gear, they are ************ because they want BIS gear because they don't want there to be any gear differences and the only way to ensure that is to make sure no one has better gear than you. If you have BIS gear and I have BIS gear, that gear exists only to keep the playing field level and that's why they ***** about gear. Skill vs. Skill.

 

Lastly, my friend, because some people may not have played other MMOs, doesnt mean they are casuals. Someone who has played this game from launch, was into progression raiding, into Ranked PVP and what have you, can exist without having ever played another MMO ever. They're not casuals in this game.

 

Now, I'm not taking any personal offense here, people will disagree and that is fine, but when someone comes along and decides that they are somehow empowered to determine by some divine right or will what everyone or even nearly everyone on these forums is or isn't by decree [i.e. this thread is largely written by the casuals who don't want to work to get better or grind"], don't expect anyone to take you seriously after that.

Edited May 20, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Seterade]

look, i'm honestly just trying to help and save you all from being back here after they change bolster. dead serious, even if they changed bolster people will be back here a week later claiming it's rigged. and yeah, i started a fresh assassin on harbinger since 5.2 and averaged 3-4k dps in stock gear. over time it's getting better, i'd say it's more to do with becoming better at the class than any gear benefit. but feel free to take that anecdotal evidence and do whatever you like with it.

 

congrats on using 2 of your cd's. look honestly i'm not interested in one off examples of "oh look how poorly i did! game must be rigged!" (but i've just gotta add, the sp utility is pretty weak and not many take it. see sink's sniper pvp guides for some useful tips). I'm just trying to save people from flooding back to complain on the forums once they do change bolster. like i said, a matchmaking change to get good players out of noob stomping (possibly based on account-wide valor, or overhauling the ranked pvp system) would do a world of good compared to a negligible bolster fix.

 

all that said, maybe you need this. maybe people need them to change bolster to 250 for a week then watch the forums become flooded with complaints about how rigged it is, rage over class nerfs, cheaters, whatever else.

I don't play engineer spec. I generally do not play OP specs. I main AP pt, hatred sin, arsenal merc (only cause I'm not good at the dot spec) lethality op, virulence sniper, lightning sorc, and fury mara and jugg. I'm not positive, but I have not seen a guide for virulence from kitchen sink, who mained engineer in the URC.

 

As for complaining about class nerfs, or cheaters? this forum is full of it, and it got worse, way worse after the gear difference. 40k HSs, 5 second 1 rotation stlth class globals (I've done this, which is why I no longer play my old main, deception assassin.) I mean just as an example I hit ppl at 30% or less hp with assassinate for 20k... every 5 secs. this isn't a brag its the dismal state of gear difference. I don't want to steam roll you, I want you to fight back, prove your better.

 

Edit: I looked it up (KS virulence guide) only things I disagreed with, was 108% accuracy over 105%, healing cover over increased sweeping fire, and I went with incrsd SP over low cd entrench

Edited May 20, 2017 by Seterade

[Icykill_]

Yeah, I mean, he can LARP the Filthy Casuals meme guy all he wants, but most people posting in this thread are several hundred command crates deep at this point. Apparently people that disagree with him are casuals.

 

He's just trolling to cause a toxic rift. Even those who think Bolster is fine arent being rude and baiting people like him. I just ignore what he says, it's an obvious troll attempt.