How much accuracy do we need for PvP?

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

accuracy is pretty useless for most specs. the amount of dcd's out there that are going to make you automiss anyway, you have 101% already from the companion, force/tech can't be defended against... If you're playing something like MM sniper or carnage mara, a little accuracy would probably not go amiss since you're mostly white damage but most of the time, no, I wouldn't bother with accuracy.

 

Yeah, that's true, as a carnage marauder i run accuracy at 105% because of all the white damage, so there are instances where there is some benefit for it.

[mmmbuddah]

Yeah, that's true, as a carnage marauder i run accuracy at 105% because of all the white damage, so there are instances where there is some benefit for it.

 

Changed my dirty fighting GS to 104,98 now ( not iwlling to go over xD) and I noticed a minute difference, but not much from 103,6

[stoopicus]

I put 0 points into accuracy at all - but I am damn glad that my Jugg gets an automatic bonus to 110% accuracy, because having Backhand miss is often catastrophic. Usually only happens on snipers and maras, which are of course where you really want to land it, especially in those rare moments when you *can* land it on a sniper.

 

Luckily it never misses on mercs, where it is by far the most satisfying

[SithKerr]

Get yourself StarParse and go into a WZ. You will see how much you miss. Enough said.

[Icykill_]

I put 0 points into accuracy at all - but I am damn glad that my Jugg gets an automatic bonus to 110% accuracy, because having Backhand miss is often catastrophic. Usually only happens on snipers and maras, which are of course where you really want to land it, especially in those rare moments when you *can* land it on a sniper.

 

Luckily it never misses on mercs, where it is by far the most satisfying

 

Yeah, using accuracy is completely based on class. Some classes don't need it and some do.

[Icykill_]

Yeah, that's true, as a carnage marauder i run accuracy at 105% because of all the white damage, so there are instances where there is some benefit for it.

 

And usually one enhancement or an implant/ear with accuracy will be enough to give you 105 (depending on class).

If it doesn't you can add one augment to bring it up.

[Korrii]

Hi,

 

Most of the points have been made, now it's up to people who determine what stats they need to shoot for depending on their classes, tree and talents.

 

Here's a practical example for what I know most, which is what I play : Focus Guardian / Rage Juggernaugt.

 

Let's assume the following:

- Focus Guardian/Rage Juggernaught in max level warzones

- Your targets are standard ones with 5% miss chances

- Playing Focus/Rage you are burst damage, you try to spike your targets. As such, total dps dished out not as important as having the biggest spike possible (max amount of damage in shortest amount of time).

- Using guardian skill names, your standard PvP attack is therefore focus, force leap, burst, conc. slice, blade storm, ravage, dispatch, freezing force, force crush. Order is assumed to be optimal for the correct sequence of buffs.

- You have full set bonus (this matters).

- Targets are not using specific defensive cooldowns (if they are, chances are you are not killing them alone).

 

The question is simple : do you reliably get more damage out of this 1 sequence with 0 accuracy (101%) or 327 accuracy (105.39% = 1 248 implant + 1 augment) ?

 

First consider that out of your sequence, the spread is as follows :

- Force : Burst, Storm, Freezing Force + Ticks, Force Crush

- Melee : Force Leap, Concentrated Slice, Ravage, Dispatch

 

Accuracy will therefore only affect 4 skills used out of the 7. Moreover, accuracy will affect those 4 skills only when they do not already crit.

 

As an exemple, using the gear I have (mix of 246 and 248), I have the following crit rates for those skills:

- Force Leap : 47.14%

- Concentrated Slice : 57.14%

- Ravage, Dispatch : 52.14%

 

So the damage loss is : chance of not hitting (4% = 105%-101% here) * non crit damage done * chance of not criting.

 

Knowing the damage done for each of these skills with the gear I have, I get those following numbers.

Compared to perfect damage (with all gear set to max damage and being really lucky and never missing any attack even though you have 0 accuracy) :

Damage loss due to 0 accuracy (101%) on 105% targets on the sum of Force leap, Conc Slice, Ravage and Dispatch : 762 damage

Damage loss due replacing mastery and crit with enough accuracy to get 105.39%: 1,504 damage (742 less than above). (you lose 1.1% crit chance + mastery damage).

 

 

So the conclusion is, statisticaly in pvp, 105% accuracy yields less expected spike damage on a Rage/Focus Guardian/Jugg than 101%.

 

Also, consider the following:

- you are probably not killing your target if you do not crit.

- your hardest hitting skills are pretty much guaranteed crits+force dmg.

- your set bonus guarantees 1 crit per minute on your biggest hitting melee skill (concentrated slice), further reducing the gain from accuracy

 

To summarize, for Focus/Rage, accuracy gains damage when it doesn't matter, and you lose damage when it does (crit spikes).

 

Focus Guardian / Rage Juggernaut : 0 accuracy, full crit/mastery. Power is strictly worse than mastery.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Korrii

[DavidAtkinson]

Hi,

 

Most of the points have been made, now it's up to people who determine what stats they need to shoot for depending on their classes, tree and talents.

 

Here's a practical example for what I know most, which is what I play : Focus Guardian / Rage Juggernaugt.

 

Let's assume the following:

- Focus Guardian/Rage Juggernaught in max level warzones

- Your targets are standard ones with 5% miss chances

- Playing Focus/Rage you are burst damage, you try to spike your targets. As such, total dps dished out not as important as having the biggest spike possible (max amount of damage in shortest amount of time).

- Using guardian skill names, your standard PvP attack is therefore focus, force leap, burst, conc. slice, blade storm, ravage, dispatch, freezing force, force crush. Order is assumed to be optimal for the correct sequence of buffs.

- You have full set bonus (this matters).

- Targets are not using specific defensive cooldowns (if they are, chances are you are not killing them alone).

 

The question is simple : do you reliably get more damage out of this 1 sequence with 0 accuracy (101%) or 327 accuracy (105.39% = 1 248 implant + 1 augment) ?

 

First consider that out of your sequence, the spread is as follows :

- Force : Burst, Storm, Freezing Force + Ticks, Force Crush

- Melee : Force Leap, Concentrated Slice, Ravage, Dispatch

 

Accuracy will therefore only affect 4 skills used out of the 7. Moreover, accuracy will affect those 4 skills only when they do not already crit.

 

As an exemple, using the gear I have (mix of 246 and 248), I have the following crit rates for those skills:

- Force Leap : 47.14%

- Concentrated Slice : 57.14%

- Ravage, Dispatch : 52.14%

 

So the damage loss is : chance of not hitting (4% = 105%-101% here) * non crit damage done * chance of not criting.

 

Knowing the damage done for each of these skills with the gear I have, I get those following numbers.

Compared to perfect damage (with all gear set to max damage and being really lucky and never missing any attack even though you have 0 accuracy) :

Damage loss due to 0 accuracy (101%) on 105% targets on the sum of Force leap, Conc Slice, Ravage and Dispatch : 762 damage

Damage loss due replacing mastery and crit with enough accuracy to get 105.39%: 1,504 damage (742 less than above). (you lose 1.1% crit chance + mastery damage).

 

 

So the conclusion is, statisticaly in pvp, 105% accuracy yields less expected spike damage on a Rage/Focus Guardian/Jugg than 101%.

 

Also, consider the following:

- you are probably not killing your target if you do not crit.

- your hardest hitting skills are pretty much guaranteed crits+force dmg.

- your set bonus guarantees 1 crit per minute on your biggest hitting melee skill (concentrated slice), further reducing the gain from accuracy

 

To summarize, for Focus/Rage, accuracy gains damage when it doesn't matter, and you lose damage when it does (crit spikes).

 

Focus Guardian / Rage Juggernaut : 0 accuracy, full crit/mastery. Power is strictly worse than mastery.

 

Why is power worse than mastery ? Interesting claim..

 

I've been testing these 2 stats for a while and I was coming close to say that Power is a lot worse than mastery in 5.0 BUT I noticed that If I stack mastery over power, my furious strike white damage is a lot of times very small... the hits are too small while stacking power offers the opposite result, furious strike hits 27, 26, 22k range more often.

 

Note: accuracy is 109% on fury marauder at the moment. not sure about this stat yet.

[thepilk]

If you are a duel wielding class, your offhand attacks only have a 67% accuracy base rate, so additional accuracy does go a long way to help support your offhand damage since it rolls on almost every single attack you make. So for Sentinels at least I think its worth padding accuracy. Maybe for Gunslingers and Mercs, but I havnt played either very deeply. Edited August 6, 2017 by thepilk

[Seterade]

if you dont have 108% accuaracy all white dmg is subject to miss. this was recorded in 4.0 with the low slash/priming shot testing. at 108% you are still subject to tank accuracy debuff but it will only put you back everyone elses accuracy lvl.

 

if you think Im kidding, wait till you get a resist mitigation on a pts sonic bomb, or a "deflect" mitiation after low slash..... on a sorc. no joke.

 

this basis falls in line with the pvp concept players are treated as "elite" type mobs and you need about 108% to not miss vs elite type pve mobs. champions require 110% which is why thats overkill for pvp and 105% is for normal. 101% is for weak.

[Thaladan]

if you dont have 108% accuaracy all white dmg is subject to miss. this was recorded in 4.0 with the low slash/priming shot testing. at 108% you are still subject to tank accuracy debuff but it will only put you back everyone elses accuracy lvl.

 

if you think Im kidding, wait till you get a resist mitigation on a pts sonic bomb, or a "deflect" mitiation after low slash..... on a sorc. no joke.

 

this basis falls in line with the pvp concept players are treated as "elite" type mobs and you need about 108% to not miss vs elite type pve mobs. champions require 110% which is why thats overkill for pvp and 105% is for normal. 101% is for weak.

 

hum...NO

 

i suggest to not follow his point of view. but it's only my opinion.

[Seterade]

my low slash (maul as well.) has missed on sorcs. with no tanks to be found or mititation dcds. I tested the theory of lower than 108%, the ap pts sonic missile defence mititaged my discharge into resist. tested it the next round with 108% no resists same enemy. dps rose by 200 too.

 

it should be noted. I said white dmg. an op/sorc has no use for this.

Edited August 6, 2017 by Seterade

[Mubrak]

it should be noted. I said white dmg. an op/sorc has no use for this.

 

True for Concealment Op, but Lethality's attacks are weapon damage that trigger additional tech damage IF they hit.

Edited August 6, 2017 by Mubrak

[DavidAtkinson]

Has anyone tested crazy ammounts of accuracy 115% ? Very tempting to test it out to see what results I get... it would be interesting on sent/mara if the guy stating that offhand has only 60% accuracy. what would happen if both hands never miss ?

[kissingaiur]

Why is power worse than mastery ? Interesting claim..

 

I've been testing these 2 stats for a while and I was coming close to say that Power is a lot worse than mastery in 5.0 BUT I noticed that If I stack mastery over power, my furious strike white damage is a lot of times very small... the hits are too small while stacking power offers the opposite result, furious strike hits 27, 26, 22k range more often.

 

Note: accuracy is 109% on fury marauder at the moment. not sure about this stat yet.

 

Mastery and power dps output is almost the same; mastery giving slightly more like .05% (you won't notice it by eyeballing) because of inquistor buff which gives you a third mastery mutilper. You should favor master over power because crits are more important in PvP than raw damage damage. It makes more sense in general. If you want more in depth stat analysis I would go check out Bants/Multis stat bring downs on class discussion.

[DavidAtkinson]

Mastery and power dps output is almost the same; mastery giving slightly more like .05% (you won't notice it by eyeballing) because of inquistor buff which gives you a third mastery mutilper. You should favor master over power because crits are more important in PvP than raw damage damage. It makes more sense in general. If you want more in depth stat analysis I would go check out Bants/Multis stat bring downs on class discussion.

 

On fury mara, I got automatic 82% crit multipler.. Tried mastery but feels better with power.

[kissingaiur]

On fury mara, I got automatic 82% crit multipler.. Tried mastery but feels better with power.

 

Crit in mastery doesn't give you crit multipler, it only gives you crit chance just FYI. Mastery is slightly better on paper because that's how the numbers work but if your happy that's all that matters.

[DavidAtkinson]

Crit in mastery doesn't give you crit multipler, it only gives you crit chance just FYI. Mastery is slightly better on paper because that's how the numbers work but if your happy that's all that matters.

 

I am on 111% accuracy currently and I think that 110% is really a realistic limit to this stat...

 

The offhand accuracy is 78% now and It isn't going up much if I stack more.

 

The stat is interesting in PVP. Seems like It helps with numbers afterall.. since I don't miss. unless it's some kind of class dcd.

[verfallen]

I am on 111% accuracy currently and I think that 110% is really a realistic limit to this stat...

 

The offhand accuracy is 78% now and It isn't going up much if I stack more.

 

The stat is interesting in PVP. Seems like It helps with numbers afterall.. since I don't miss. unless it's some kind of class dcd.

 

Inquisitor/consular classes apart, the base defense of any classes is 5%, so 105% is the number you should normally gun for. More can be useful when dealing with tanks or some mild defenses dcds, but mostly going over is a dps loss vs more crit, alacrity or power/mastery.

 

Some spec run some slight near permanent defense buffs but again, its not worth to have a permanent 110% accuracy for them. If its really a problem in that particular wz, just switch to an accuracy stim.

[Liquor]

If Immortal Juggernaut running with DPS mods, enhancements and augments then ZERO accuracy. You have 111% accuracy.

 

I run 2 sets of gear on my Jugg tank. A high HP tank set and a critical DPS set.

Works great for my playstyle. No accuracy on the DPS set and I get 45% crit and 70% crit modifier. Rest is power.

I won't be top boards for DPS but able to contribute in arenas and attacking voidstar where the extra dps is nice to have.

 

Huttball and defence voidstar I can be found wearing the tank set.

 

 

Generally you'll see 105% as there aren't many running 110%. Some do while many more won't.

 

Healers do not require accuracy. All heals hit. They do not miss.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Liquor

[verfallen]

.Healers do not require accuracy. All heals hit. They do not miss.

 

Tell that to the slinger who smoke screened my operative healer in a 1vs1 today lol. (or more accurately, slinger desperately trying to kill me while I'm walking back to my team after a huttball score, and just ignoring him)

[kissingaiur]

Inquisitor/consular classes apart, the base defense of any classes is 5%, so 105% is the number you should normally gun for. More can be useful when dealing with tanks or some mild defenses dcds, but mostly going over is a dps loss vs more crit, alacrity or power/mastery.

 

Some spec run some slight near permanent defense buffs but again, its not worth to have a permanent 110% accuracy for them. If its really a problem in that particular wz, just switch to an accuracy stim.

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with running between 105-110% accuracy for pvp. In the end of the day when you min/max the amount of dps you can pull by rerranging stats is minimal. I think having an white damaging ability not miss is more important then a .05% dps gain from running more power or mastery. I know carnage is a good example of a class that running on the high side of accuracy (110%) because more than half your burst and fillers are white.

 

Food for thought.

[JarenWelen]

Although I personally don't run more than 105% accuracy, I completely agree with the logic that more is not a waste. I can buff the living daylights out of a white damage ability with stats and procs, but if it misses my target I'm going to feel it - and I'm going to feel it badly. As others have said though, this is very dependent on what spec you're running. As with everything, experiment with different values until you find something that works for you.

[Evolixe]

Well, I'm glad we have gone from "don't pick any accuracy for PvP" on the first page,

to "At least get some.. but 105% comes highly recommended".

 

[DavidAtkinson]

Well, I'm glad we have gone from "don't pick any accuracy for PvP" on the first page,

to "At least get some.. but 105% comes highly recommended".

 

 

I find it more useful than alacrity to be honest..