SWTOR is less than a month old, wow is 7 years old. Why do people compare?

[jardail]

People say wow has so many fetures and swtor is bad because it does not have them... wow has had 7 years to improve upon its self. Give Swtor a chance and time to put in the things your ******* complaining about.... ¬.¬

 

WoW was not the first MMO nore was it original all WoW did was take the MMO template and improve upon it by removing things that were annoying (e.g crafting had a chance to fail) it did this with games Such as Ever Quest and so on.

 

SWTOR has done the same it has take the MMO TEMPLATE not copyed wow but taken the MMO TEMPLATE Which all MMO's use and removed useless stuff, ADDED its own stuff and improved upon existing stuff.

 

People need to remember WoW its self is a quoat un quoat "Clone" of the MMO's that came before it.

 

My final point. Who cares if it borrowed things from other games, it happens all the time in everything. just shut up, get on with the game and stop comparing it to WoW; an MMO thats long out lived its greatness WoW "died" along time ago and is just clinging onto life and dragging its self out to long. Its 7 gosh darn years old, its had its time at the top and has set a good standard for MMO's to go by and people should accept the fact its long out lived its awesomenes.

 

Whether WoW is 7 years old or not is immaterial.

 

Gaming in MMOs has been around alot longer than 7 years.

 

Everquest, remember that one?

 

There really is NO comparison when it comes down to performance and availability.

 

What BW had, was wisdom based on over 10 years of experience of other gaming companies that did it wrong and paid the price.

 

BW is like a 5 year old child, they had the chance to do it right the first time by taking the experience of older wiser (wiser by virtue of experience) adults.

 

But like the proverbial 5 year old, they stamped their feet, huffed and shouted "I'll do it MY way".

 

Ok, this is "their" way.

[msales]

Plz tell me what is new in SWTOR .. plz do i m not trolling i just want to know

 

Crew skills that's about it when compared to all games as a whole. Don't get me wrong I'm loving the game I just wish people should grow up, look at it objectively and admit its not perfect. Then BW can identify what the fans don't like and work on making improvements. That not just this thread it's the whole forum.

[Goshnye]

BW is like a 5 year old child, they had the chance to do it right the first time by taking the experience of older wiser (wiser by virtue of experience) adults.

 

But like the proverbial 5 year old, they stamped their feet, huffed and shouted "I'll do it MY way".

 

Ok, this is "their" way.

 

Completely agree. There's so much that Bioware could have learned from other MMO's, and incorporated into SWTOR to make it into a much better game (e.g. Rift's UI and invasions, EVE's sandboxing, LOTRO's gear appearance, etc.). Instead, they seem obsessed with copying what WoW was circa the Burning Crusade.

 

I can understand why Gordon Walton would want to leave the company. In 2007, while still at Bioware, he gave a 12-point speech in how to create a new MMO post-WoW, and Bioware seemed to have ignored most of it:

 

http://gamasutra.com/view/news/15386/AGDC_BioWares_Walton_On_Making_MMOs_PostWorld_of_Warcraft.php

[a_Stalker]

As long as the comparison is a fair one, I'd treat them equally.

 

But the whiners here want to compare a new product with one with seven years of production behind it. That's not an apples to apples comparison.

 

The whiners here also want to act like producing software -- and an MMO especially -- is the same as building a car. It isn't. They have no idea what they're talking about.

 

 

 

Still a lousy comparison.

 

The car analogy the whiners use is just as bad as your celphone analogy here.

 

Producing software is different than building a car in fundamental ways. Producing software is different than producing phones.

 

But hey, if you're not persuaded, go back to WoW. I find SWTOR's innovations to be absolutely fantastic, and some UI bugs that will be gone inside 90 days don't bother me much.

 

It is "different"? Give some more details please. How exactly is designing and writing software different to designing and creating anything else, from a cellphone tp a car, when it comes to using ideas and techniques already present in the industry.

 

Will you as a software engineer go to your client and say "Here is the spreadsheet you have asked for, it worse than what Excel was in 1994 and it costs twice as much. It has no data sorting features, it cannot create graphs, and when you move cells you can only move them in one direction else it will not update. But hey, it is my first try....".

 

Actually SWTOR is so much a single player game it is not even funny. It is like buying today a spreadsheet application without auto-update. Unthinkable.

[a_Stalker]

If people want to compare...start comparing launches. WoW had one of the worst launches in MMO history hands down, and if anyone tries to argue that fact we can do that all day.

 

So if you want to compare a 7 year old game to a 9 day old game, compare launches and WoW will get trashed.

 

Not to mention, people keep acting like WoW is some sort of original MMO. There are only 3-4 things in that game that are original ideas. Other than that, everything has been taken straight from other MMO's before WoW and MMO's that have been released after WoW then slapped with a different name is all. Hell, WoW's IP isn't even original as they ripped it straight from Warhammer, and again...added some different names.

 

The argument is old, stale, and lame, so again. If you want to compare WoW and SW:TOR compare them both at 9 days old, and again...WoW will get thrashed.

 

WoW had broken classes (ie the Druid) for over 2 years. WoW had holes in the world EVERYWHERE for years until they were almost all taken care of. How long did it even take them to get tier 1 armor graphics in the game? Their 5 dungeons, strath, scholo etc were broken and could be run with 40 man raids (they were 5 mans). WoW's queues make SW:TOR's queues look like childs play and lasted for almost the first year. There were times they broke WoW with a patch and the servers were down for 72+ hours..I can go on all day.

 

Such wild statements about WOW and SWTOR alike... "Class is broken" "combat does not work". Please...

 

I think in fairness the launch of SWTOR was OK, a little problem for half a day while their web servers were down but then mostly OK, at least for me - I got the game on the 22nd and I was able to play late in the evening and no problems since.

 

However the main fault of SWTOR is that it has been designed as a single player game with a single player game's world. Almost everything else can be changed easier than it would to change this fundamental design.

 

If I were designing this MMO you'd take your ship and click on the galactic map to land on a planet, there would be a loading screen for sure, and I would then see the spaceport and would see my ship slowly docking. I would then walk out of my ship, in the same way you walk out of the ship in WOW once it has arrived, ie no more loading screens. I would then walk out of the spaceport, no more loading screens, no lifts, no ramps no more loading screens. I would then take my vehicle and drive or fly to my destination over the planet's surface. No more loading screens.

 

This game will become a very expensive single player game for those who keep their subscription. I do not even begin to understand why it is made in such a way since designing MMO open worlds is not hard at all.

[GalacticKegger]

Because comparing is an important feature of WoW? Edited December 30, 2011 by GalacticKegger

[Modjoconcarne]

Crew skills that's about it when compared to all games as a whole. Don't get me wrong I'm loving the game I just wish people should grow up, look at it objectively and admit its not perfect. Then BW can identify what the fans don't like and work on making improvements. That not just this thread it's the whole forum.

Crew skills are a rip of from gran fantasia ...

[Master-Qui]

I look at it this way, maybe there are some features that Bioware didn't put in the game because they believed the game would be better without them. Like epeen meters, gearscore and sitting around capitals staring at the back of your character's head waiting for your dungeon/Raid/PVP queues to pop. I'm okay with this.

 

People are saying that Bioware should have used Blizzards experience and learned from them. I say they have; they have learned not to repeat the same mistakes. Just because a feature is in World of Warcraft does not mean that it automatically is the best thing to ever happen to MMOs, or even a good fit for the type of game that Bioware has made.

 

World of Warcraft and Star Wars: The Old Republic are two different games Bioware will come out with their own innovations not re-create Blizzards, that's a good thing.

[GalacticKegger]

This game will become a very expensive single player game for those who keep their subscription. I do not even begin to understand why it is made in such a way since designing MMO open worlds is not hard at all.

By all means - feel free to fire one up so so the masses can experience true genius. Would it be okay to flame and berate satisfied subscribers in your forums? Can we be legends in our own minds and annonymously profess to knowing more than the developer? And - oh yeah - may we be permitted to whine incessantly about the need for mod access because we fear change and hide it behind disingenuous claims of the title having no end game?

 

Not hard at all ...

Edited January 1, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[a_Stalker]

By all means - feel free to fire one up so so the masses can experience true genius. Would it be okay to flame and berate satisfied subscribers in your forums? Can we be legends in our own minds and annonymously profess to knowing more than the developer? And - oh yeah - may we be permitted to whine incessantly about the need for mod access because we fear change and hide it behind disingenuous claims of the title having no end game?

 

Not hard at all ...

 

I do not think I'd charge if my work was not up to scratch. SWTOR is very expensive to buy right off plus the charge the highest monthly fee amongst games, where the quality is so low that it should be free.

 

And instead of banning players for "misconduct" they should instead be apologising for the raft of bugs that led to this misconduct!

 

Just another example, I was browsing over some fanboy troll here asking what's wrong with the AH, it is perfect he says, well for one it keeps cancelling my auctions as soon as one item sells. The typical fanboy response is "go list them again".

[JayyDee]

My final point. Who cares if it borrowed things from other games, it happens all the time in everything. just shut up, get on with the game and stop comparing it to WoW; an MMO thats long out lived its greatness WoW "died" along time ago and is just clinging onto life and dragging its self out to long. Its 7 gosh darn years old, its had its time at the top and has set a good standard for MMO's to go by and people should accept the fact its long out lived its awesomenes.

 

 

Not to forget the damn engine is still the same and has not changed one bit. they may have had 7 years to work on the game itself and its content but they really didnt think of improving the engine at all which is a little odd.

 

TOR FTW

[GalacticKegger]

Comparing ... is a large part of the World of Warcraft experience. At least within its hard core end game community which I was a part of for 5 years and happily walked away from.

[RuthlessKorrupt]

The best part of WoW is going onto another game, paying the subscription and talking about WoW.

[CannotDeny]

Boy, this Abriael guy is the biggest tool I've seen in a long time.

It takes real dedication to feign ignorance like this, friends.

 

It doesn't matter if you present any sort of "evidence" such as all the posts stating the same thing on this thread, or other threads. He will simply disagree regardless and shoot down everything as an "opinion", much like the one he is forming.

 

Abriael, go play the game that you see no issues with. Why are you bothering to argue against the majority of people that clearly have the same problems with it? Go play, because no matter what changes in the game (Even if you disagree with it and makes it evidently better as a whole) it'll be great for you. So why are you posting?

 

Not going to bother to reply when you ask for evidence or state this as an opinion.

Edited January 7, 2012 by CannotDeny

[Twilight_Rain]

The most common argument I've seen, here or in-game, is that "WoW didn't have this and that when it launched", therefore we can't fault SWTOR for having the same issues on its launch.

 

It's also the dumbest argument I've read... and you have to either be a hardcore fanboy, or really stupid to think that is even remotely logical.

 

Can you imagine a new internet provider starting out today and only providing a 56k connection and justifying it by saying "Well... AOL started out with 56k. You expect us to have high-speed at launch??" My answer would be, "Uh yeah... I expect you to have high-speed at launch. It's 2012, buddy."

 

The bottom line is that the bar has been set. Either you can compete in today's standards, or you fade into obscurity like the rest.

[BushidoRaven]

It's for reason's like this we compare. Wow gave game designer's a way to keep millions of subscriptions entertaining.

 

http://www.swtorstrategies.com/2012/01/intergalactic-intel-wow-vs-swtor.html

 

Swtor has my vote for a bit, hopefully they get there act together soon.

[TonyIommi]

I dunno about you but I wouldnt release a product that has mass frame rate and performance issues on some rigs. they changed something from the last beta build to the live build. and it screwed things up for some people

 

Some rigs is a clever euphamism. It would be more accurate to say a minority of rigs.

[Zorvan]

So let me get this straight.

 

Duke Nukem Forever comes out exactly as it would have in 2004 if released at that time, and it get lambasted for not "being with the current generation of games".

 

SWToR comes out exactly like WoW 2004 and it's "WoW didn't have those features when it released, so why should ToR?".

 

Fanboys = a psychiatrist wet dream.

[TonyIommi]

The most common argument I've seen, here or in-game, is that "WoW didn't have this and that when it launched", therefore we can't fault SWTOR for having the same issues on its launch.

 

It's also the dumbest argument I've read... and you have to either be a hardcore fanboy, or really stupid to think that is even remotely logical.

 

Can you imagine a new internet provider starting out today and only providing a 56k connection and justifying it by saying "Well... AOL started out with 56k. You expect us to have high-speed at launch??" My answer would be, "Uh yeah... I expect you to have high-speed at launch. It's 2012, buddy."

 

The bottom line is that the bar has been set. Either you can compete in today's standards, or you fade into obscurity like the rest.

 

Software development is not the IP business. Understand the difference and you'll get over it fast.

[TonyIommi]

So let me get this straight.

 

Duke Nukem Forever comes out exactly as it would have in 2004 if released at that time, and it get lambasted for not "being with the current generation of games".

 

SWToR comes out exactly like WoW 2004 and it's "WoW didn't have those features when it released, so why should ToR?".

 

Fanboys = a psychiatrist wet dream.

 

Massively Multiplayer Games are not First Person Shooters. Generally speaking they have a much vaster life time and thusly changes are implemented over time. It would be more apt to compare it to Fallout and then all the fallout expansions that got added.

[youwillburn]

Software development is not the IP business. Understand the difference and you'll get over it fast.

 

Sure dawg, that totally destroys this whole comparing argument.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh wait it doesn't.

[radersdad]

So let me get this straight.

 

Duke Nukem Forever comes out exactly as it would have in 2004 if released at that time, and it get lambasted for not "being with the current generation of games".

 

SWToR comes out exactly like WoW 2004 and it's "WoW didn't have those features when it released, so why should ToR?".

 

Fanboys = a psychiatrist wet dream.

 

Or a physicists wet dream - studying space-time in that vacuum where the universe does not move on would be priceless.

[Halbe]

The most common argument I've seen, here or in-game, is that "WoW didn't have this and that when it launched", therefore we can't fault SWTOR for having the same issues on its launch.

 

It's also the dumbest argument I've read... and you have to either be a hardcore fanboy, or really stupid to think that is even remotely logical.

 

Can you imagine a new internet provider starting out today and only providing a 56k connection and justifying it by saying "Well... AOL started out with 56k. You expect us to have high-speed at launch??" My answer would be, "Uh yeah... I expect you to have high-speed at launch. It's 2012, buddy."

 

The bottom line is that the bar has been set. Either you can compete in today's standards, or you fade into obscurity like the rest.

 

That's a terrible analogy and you know it.

 

You discredit how long WoW has on SWToR because, why? It's a huge reason (not to mention no competition at the time WoW launched).

 

There is only a finite of time a development company has.

 

You pick out what you want, do that well, put in as much as possible before the money dries up, and then launch.

 

It's how MMO's work. Having an extra 7 years for more content, bug fixes, new features, is enourmous.

 

If you think the next game is going to launch with all the good features from EQ onward, with Voice Overs as well, think again. They'll do the same thing SWTOR did. They'll launch with as much as possible, and then hope they can patch fast enough to keep up.

[dembonez]

Because it has to compete with what exists NOW. They had plenty of time to look at the past MMO experiences of plenty of "failed" AAA titles. This applies to every company that creates an MMO today, not just BW.

 

WoW charged 14.99 when it came out. That is not the same as saying they could charge 14.99 today with the exact same material. Swtor is charging 14.99 for the same content (2004), more or less (minus the voice over). When prices are the same... people will, and should, make a comparison. I do it with everything I buy. So do you. I do not care who "YOU" is. We all do it.

 

Things are not static. Just because WoW did it years ago does not mean everything from here to freaking eternity can do the same thing as WoW year-0 when they start out. I want good games. I do not want game after game that blows it because they think that WOW-2004 is the starting point to launch every single MMO.

[twogirlsoneup]

WoW was _directly_ up against the sequel to the then-giant of MMOs. There was "no competition" because WoW was amazingly better.

 

WoW is not going to stop innovating, so SW:ToR is going to remain well behind the 8-ball until Titan drops and makes all this moot.